Will we live again? (not a religious/metaphysical topic)

[raskolnikov]

I was thinking of this:

Let's assume a materialist point of view: consciousness vanishes with death (cerebral death) because it is no other than a biological process.

Ok.

Now, if this is actually the case, do you think however in a future time, may it be even thousands or millions years, you could experience counsciousness again?

As "you" will be again the mind of another living being (preferably given of selfcounsciousness, let's say another human being)?

Obviously it won't be "you", but just another being like you are in this very moment.

I don't know if this even make sense, or appears a delirium, it's just a thing I've been thinking about for some days.

I have a hard time to cope with the idea of not experiencing anything more for the rest of times (billions years if not more).

It's true that we came to life at a time when universe already existed for about 14 billion years without us having any experience of that and the fact doesn't touch us at all. So this should give an idea of what to "expect" after death.

But to my theory I wouldn't exclude each of "us" actually has already experienced life before the one we're now living, on this or on another planet.

If you think out of probabilities, how many of those were there that you came to life, as a human being, at this time, on this planet, in this corner of the universe, which is larger than our mind can't even realize? I would say fery few, close to none. Harder than winning the lottery 1000 times in a row.

So I think that maybe the experience of consciousness, of finding ourselves "inside" a living being isn't this unique as we thought it to be.

Please tell me if this make any sense to you :)

 

[creatureoflight]

The afterlife is a real place and your spirit will go on, no worries!:)
From a general point of view though, it's a difficult topic as many people believe there is no consciousness possible without a brain and the discussion goes back and forth as to whether it is possible or not as in many other threads on this site. To me, the afterlife is 100% real but nothing like in organized religions or in Christianity.

 

[raskolnikov]

The afterlife is a real place and your spirit will go on, no worries!:)

I'd like to believe this. Unluckily I've been sceptical about anything in my whole life, so I'm approaching the question myself with a "conservative", "delusional" if you want, attitude. Not that I want to exclude that spirit or soul can be very true, I haven't this certainty nor certainty of the contrary, I just make hypothesis.

I'd like the idea to reincarnate with a better luck if I have to be honest, but I'm just exploring a materialistic view here.

 

[creatureoflight]

I'd like to believe this. Unluckily I've been sceptical about anything in my whole life, so I'm approaching the question myself with a "conservative", "delusional" if you want, attitude. Not that I want to exclude that spirit or soul can be very true, I haven't this certainty nor certainty of the contrary, I just make hypothesis.

I'd like the idea to reincarnate with a better luck if I have to be honest, but I'm just exploring a materialistic view here.

I wish I could give you some of the joy, love and happiness that the belief in the afterlife has given me and I can't put into words how much hope it provides me with. My life truly begins and ends with God and the afterlife and it is the essence of my being, no matter how corny that sounds.
But hey-the wisest viewpoint is that of an agnostic. You are on this website because you are thinking of ctbing soon. You might just be surprised where you end up!:) You can absolutely reincarnate if you like.
OT: are you Russian because of your username? raskol means falling apart in Russian?

 

[raskolnikov]

I wish I could give you some of the joy, love and happiness that the belief in the afterlife has given me and I can't put into words how much hope it provides me with. My life truly begins and ends with God and the afterlife and it is the essence of my being, no matter how corny that sounds.
But hey-the wisest viewpoint is that of an agnostic. You are on this website because you are thinking of ctbing soon. You might just be surprised where you end up!:) You can absolutely reincarnate if you like.
OT: are you Russian because of your username? raskol means falling apart in Russian?

Thank you. I was raised as an atheist but I like to put doubt in everything. Furthermore I had interesting experiences in my life that make me think :)

My nickname is Russian, but I'm not :) It's the main character of Dostoevskij's Crime and Punishment, a beautiful novel I would reccomend to anyone in this forum. It speaks about ethic, society, love, god and atheism.

 

[GodKnows]

OT: are you Russian because of your username? raskol means falling apart in Russian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodion_Raskolnikov

 

[Mr2004]

I was thinking of this:

Let's assume a materialist point of view: consciousness vanishes with death (cerebral death) because it is no other than a biological process.

Ok.

Now, if this is actually the case, do you think however in a future time, may it be even thousands or millions years, you could experience counsciousness again?

As "you" will be again the mind of another living being (preferably given of selfcounsciousness, let's say another human being)?

Obviously it won't be "you", but just another being like you are in this very moment.

I don't know if this even make sense, or appears a delirium, it's just a thing I've been thinking about for some days.

I have a hard time to cope with the idea of not experiencing anything more for the rest of times (billions years if not more).

It's true that we came to life at a time when universe already existed for about 14 billion years without us having any experience of that and the fact doesn't touch us at all. So this should give an idea of what to "expect" after death.

But to my theory I wouldn't exclude each of "us" actually has already experienced life before the one we're now living, on this or on another planet.

If you think out of probabilities, how many of those were there that you came to life, as a human being, at this time, on this planet, in this corner of the universe, which is larger than our mind can't even realize? I would say fery few, close to none. Harder than winning the lottery 1000 times in a row.

So I think that maybe the experience of consciousness, of finding ourselves "inside" a living being isn't this unique as we thought it to be.

Please tell me if this make any sense to you :)

The fact it's so amazing that I'm even here means despite what I may think of the whole concept of life I know I only think this because I 've wasted it and I can't do anything to fix it. It's easier to think if it's all shit anyway then I haven't missed much and I won't be missing much if I go now. All our problems are our own and I see a lot of pointing the finger of blame to other things when if we were happy in ourselves I don't think it would matter so much. I really just want to be born again as me in 1986 again. Get a chance to do it over. Some beleive that's what you do anyway until you get it right but they say that like it's a bad thing. Maybe they never would have enjoyed life whatever the circumstances but I know mine could have been good. The only thing is if I had no memory of doing it before wouldn't I inevitably do the same thing again?

 

[raskolnikov]

Well, 1986 was a great year, I was 6 and The Final Countdown was raging all around :)

Well I could very have done very well too if my parents had taken different decisions for me and if only I hadn't met great assholes on my way. I honestly feel it's not my fault if my life went wrong, or at least 20% mine, 50% my parents, 30% shitty people. Nor I think that everyone should feel guilty of anything.

What I agree with you is if my life had gone well I would have been out having fun non stop, instead of being here wanting to end it all.

 

[Mr2004]

^
I'm angry at my parents too because if they had made different decisions it wouldn't matter that I didn't. I know it comes back to me for putting it in their hands in the first place it's just so much harder to accept it's all my own doing but it's the mature thing to do. I'm a better person in a lot of ways but where the general cynicism comes in is in seeing how that counts for shit. The ignorant fucker back then who was fun at parties would have got a lot more out of life. If this hadn't happened that is

 

[Mr2004]

Well, 1986 was a great year, I was 6 and The Final Countdown was raging all around :)

Well I could very have done very well too if my parents had taken different decisions for me and if only I hadn't met great assholes on my way. I honestly feel it's not my fault if my life went wrong, or at least 20% mine, 50% my parents, 30% shitty people. Nor I think that everyone should feel guilty of anything.

What I agree with you is if my life had gone well I would have been out having fun non stop, instead of being here wanting to end it all.

Maybe it is their fault in your case I'm not saying it isn't. I just know the anger I have towards mine rightly or wrongly is eating me alive

 

[raskolnikov]

^
I'm angry at my parents too because if they had made different decisions it wouldn't matter that I didn't. I know it comes back to me for putting it in their hands in the first place it's just so much harder to accept it's all my own doing but it's the mature thing to do.

From a cause/effect standpoint, you're right. I also could have changed my life taking it from my parents' hands, objecting to their decisions. But they were the adults, I was the kid. They were in charge to plan my life for me until to a certain point. They should have had the knowledge and the experience. Just to say one, why had I to grow up in a shitty degraded neighbourhood, with thugs as classmates? What is done is done, anyway.

 

[Mr2004]

Unfortunately. I'd give anything to time travel to the year of my username. Thing is I was nearly 18 years old when I sat back, smoked weed and just let them make the important life decisions. I have no excuses, I just don't think I wanted to grow up but the only person who's suffered for it is me

 

[Cursed Shaman]

I really believe that our psysical bodies and souls are different entities.I also believe about reincarnation and that our souls can only reincarnate to human bodies. When you die your soul go to spiritual world. A place without pain,fear,bad feelings,material and time sensation.You stay there peacefuly until you choose another body. Michael Newton was a hypnotist who research alterlife, the journey and destiny of souls. Of course, many won't believe that but i found it very interesting and i like this point of view.Sorry for bad english. Here is a link.

http://www.to-en.gr/home_en.htm

 

[bag.of.cats]

I considered that theory many times and it frightens me. I don't know how your birth circumstances are chosen, random or not, but I don't want another life of suffering, even if you won't remember anything. Even worse, it would be a nightmare if you repeat the same life, over and over, as somebody mentioned. I wish you could choose your life, but after you die, you, your desires and everything disappears, so that doesn't make any sense.

 

[Brokenanddeadinside]

I think so if we are able to exist right now why wouldn't we be able to exist again. Not that I want it to happen but I believe we can live again as a different person.

 

[raskolnikov]

I considered that theory many times and it frightens me. I don't know how your birth circumstances are chosen, random or not, but I don't want another life of suffering, even if you won't remember anything. Even worse, it would be a nightmare if you repeat the same life, over and over, as somebody mentioned. I wish you could choose your life, but after you die, you, your desires and everything disappears, so that doesn't make any sense.

I'm a bit of a gambler, and would take another chance :)

If really we come to life only once and then it is eternal oblivion, it's like universe didn't ever existed for us, nor ever will. It's like we are already living in an illusion. It's like universe in reality is nothing.

 

[QueenEtna]

I believe in reincarnation a lot. I don't think your conscience dies it just transfers into a new body.

 

[creatureoflight]

I considered that theory many times and it frightens me. I don't know how your birth circumstances are chosen, random or not, but I don't want another life of suffering, even if you won't remember anything. Even worse, it would be a nightmare if you repeat the same life, over and over, as somebody mentioned. I wish you could choose your life, but after you die, you, your desires and everything disappears, so that doesn't make any sense.

Don't worry. You don't have to do it if you don't want to and on the other side you have a different perspective about a lot of things. You definitely don't have to reincarnate if you don't want to!

 

[KCN]

Now, if this is actually the case, do you think however in a future time, may it be even thousands or millions years, you could experience consciousness again?

no, you'd have to replicate the exact same conditions that brought to your birth, including re-enacting all world history leading to the year you were conceived
the intertwining between biology, neurochemistry, physics and local quantum phenomena needed to originate a specific consciousness state leading to "that" neural network into being "you" can't be re-enacted. It's unique and strictly personal, it doesn't happen twice

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

Psychedelics and disassociates can give you the same real experience only in a different reality, so i do wonder if its just brain chems, i also wonder if seeing or hearing ghosts doesent fall into this category although ive had group experiences with this so it seems unlikely, at any rate it certainly makes me question what makes reality, and why is this one so static?

 

[raskolnikov]

no, you'd have to replicate the exact same conditions that brought to your birth, including re-enacting all world history leading to the year you were conceived
the intertwining between biology, neurochemistry, physics and local quantum phenomena needed to originate a specific consciousness state leading to "that" neural network into being "you" can't be re-enacted. It's unique and strictly personal, it doesn't happen twice

Well, when we come to life we are stripped from nothingness all of a sudden, it just happens, at a certain point, that from "the dark" we become aware of existing.

We were nothing before coming to life, we will be nothing again when we will die. How can we be certain that this won't happen again? That from nothing we will be once more get thrown to life, even in another planet or another form of life?

I'm not saying it will be again you in a strict sense or that this new conscience will have the same traits.

I don't know if I can't explain or if I can't comprehend enough. Seemingly I can't compite being nothing.

 

[creatureoflight]

Psychedelics and disassociates can give you the same real experience only in a different reality, so i do wonder if its just brain chems, i also wonder if seeing or hearing ghosts doesent fall into this category although ive had group experiences with this so it seems unlikely, at any rate it certainly makes me question what makes reality, and why is this one so static?

The experience you get from psychedelics and in OOBEs and NDEs are two completely different things. NDEs have the same standard elements while DMT and Ayahuasca for example (the most powerful psychedelics) that make LSD look like sugar pills are like a wild card: anything can happen.

 

[KCN]

Well, when we come to life we are stripped from nothingness all of a sudden, it just happens, at a certain point, that from "the dark" we become aware of existing.

We were nothing before coming to life, we will be nothing again when we will die. How can we be certain that this won't happen again? That from nothing we will be once more get thrown to life, even in another planet or another form of life?

I don't want to get redundant, but the answer is the same I've already given. Each of us was there because there were specific circumstances that allowed so. Where's my brother? My parents had me as an only child. There won't be a "revival" for my non-existent brother. So I've made it a lot easier to understand the same point I was trying to explain before.

 

[bbq1]

In a future life I will come back as one of Pamela Anderson's triplets. Knowing my luck I'll be the one that has to be bottle fed.

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

The experience you get from psychedelics and in OOBEs and NDEs are two completely different things. NDEs have the same standard elements while DMT and Ayahuasca for example (the most powerful psychedelics) that make LSD look like sugar pills are like a wild card: anything can happen.

On nderf they vary wildly, ive had them on nitrous at the dentist office, completely "real" experience out of the body ect. How did yours come about and what was it?

 

[Midnight]

Please tell me if this make any sense to you :)

To be honest ... None at all. I just hope that when my life ends it will the end of everything that i was. I believe there is nothing more after death. Just want to point out I have nothing against other beliefs .. to each their own. We have no facts to prove either of us wrong. We'll just have to find out.

 

[creatureoflight]

On nderf they vary wildly, ive had them on nitrous at the dentist office, completely "real" experience out of the body ect. How did yours come about and what was it?

I never had an NDE and never took psychedelics, I only had one OOBE out of a lucid dream where I was standing beside my body and then went back into it and was in two places at the same time(in my body and saw myself looking on it, and also saw my body at the same time.)
I'm not saying there aren't similarities, however in a more general sense the two experiences (DMT and psychedelics) and NDEs are two different things.