Why suicide is forbidden ?

[Alucard]

While another topic gave good reasons to legalize suicide, I think it is interesting to ask why we are prevented from committing suicide, why we are forbidden, when it would be so easy without this prohibition. ..

My opinion is that we are considered by society as potentially exploitable labor, so if we committed suicide, it would be less manpower.

If you see other reasons why suicide is forbidden, please share them.

 

[GeorgeJL]

It comes down to genetics fundamentally. We are programmed to live. You know survival of the fittest as they say. The other reason is that we need time to evolve out of it.

 

[Superfluous]

I believe that ultimately it's due to religion. Almost all major religions condemn suicide and have done so since their inception. For thousands of years, religions have forced their beliefs and values on mankind and now those beliefs and values are the basis for what is considered by society as 'normal'.

 

[GeorgeJL]

I believe that ultimately it's due to religion. Almost all major religions condemn suicide and have done so since their inception. For thousands of years, religions have forced their beliefs and values on mankind and now those beliefs and values are the basis for what is considered by society as 'normal'.

No part in the bible does it directly say that suicide by itself is bad. Some people say well Judas killed himself but that is irrelevant because he betrayed Jesus. Then it could be argued that Samson actually committed suicide and it was a good thing.

I would argue that the prophets knew suicide wasn't that bad, but they didn't want to publicly acknowledge that. And that it was religious fanatics that later came along and said it was a sin.

 

[Superfluous]

No part in the bible does it directly say that suicide by itself is bad.

My apologies. You are 100% correct. I've just recently rewatched Constantine, but I guess it's not a good idea to base your ideas on a movie.

Edit: Based on some quick research in Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, but...), I found the following basic opinions regarding suicide for the major religions (summarised):

• Judaism: frowned upon
• Christianity
  • Catholicism: objectively a sin which violates the commandment "Thou shalt not kill"
  • Conservative Protestants: argue that suicide is self-murder
• Islam: forbidden
• Buddhism: vague
• Hinduism: spiritually unacceptable

 

[Alucard]

I do believe that the Christian religion, as it has become, has made suicide guilty, hence the fact that suicidal people are considered as "losers".

In Buddhism, on the other hand, reincarnation is always a punishment, while death, the true, is the end of suffering, reintegration to Nature.

Epicurus said very well that "when death exists, we are not, when death is there, we are no longer". So when I'm dead, I do not suffer anymore but I enjoy eternal rest.

 

[Umbra]

Same reason anything is forbidden, society says so.

 

[asdasan]

I believe that ultimately it's due to religion. Almost all major religions condemn suicide and have done so since their inception. For thousands of years, religions have forced their beliefs and values on mankind and now those beliefs and values are the basis for what is considered by society as 'normal'.

This, plus the human survival instinct, friends and family complaining about it and maybe to some degree, the government not wanting so many taxpayers to catch the bus.

 

[aspx]

Same reason anything is forbidden, society says so.

This.
I believe that it's a thing from the Middle Ages (Dark Ages, if you prefer), where the Church didn't want the people to die so both the King and the Church would lose their money, so the Clergy made those affirmations saying that suicide is bad, you'll go to hell if you do so, etc. Those beliefs carry on until today because people don't want other people leaving this world early.

 

[Begemont]

Religion plays a huge role, especially in the west. I think without it, suicide would be frowned upon, but not to the extent it is today. Especially with the christian idea that the suffering (of other people) is a good thing.. Suicide as a means of escaping suffering is fundamentally un-christian.

 

[Redrock]

Fortunately, I do not believe in God, so I am not afraid to go to hell because hell does not exist

 

[Jayxtri]

Jainism has a different perspective

 

[NextSummer]

When I discuss it with people without religious arguments, they all tell me "dying shouldn't be easy because people might suicide for stupid reasons". You think it's their empathy talking but when I tell them about 10000 of people dieing alone and under horrible conditions because the state bans peaceful means like N, they just close their eyes and pretend not hearing me.

 

[Jean Améry]

"Suicide is forbidden because it's illegal to destroy government property". Whoever came up with that was right on the money.

Legalization of suicide would lead to a fundamental change in society: everyone who is miserable is free to quit so the current socio-economic structures would collapse. Psychiatry would lose much of its raison d'être: it'd be difficult to pretend to save lives when suicide would be legal. It'd also be the end of the DSM-madness: if taking your own life is a legal option it can't very well be a symptom of a mental illness can it?

 

[Jean Améry]

I believe that ultimately it's due to religion. Almost all major religions condemn suicide and have done so since their inception. For thousands of years, religions have forced their beliefs and values on mankind and now those beliefs and values are the basis for what is considered by society as 'normal'.

Christianity didn't untill Augustine's condemnation. Nowhere in the bible is there a prohibition on it and of the 7 cases mentioned none are described in dissaproving terms.

Not even the death of Judas Ischarioth by hanging: "and he went and hung himself'. Or something to that extent.

 

[silentsinger]

I sometimes think people just regard it as morally wrong or sinful when they don't even understand why. It may be that they have it drilled into them that it is just inexcusable. The most puzzling is when someone is reacting negatively to someone they didn't know committing suicide, therefore they couldn't possibly empathise.

Some people will also look back on people they knew who did it with anger, saying they wish they could have done more. When in reality they could easily have done more, they just chose not to because they didn't want to get involved.

I'm probably ranting and saying a bunch of rubbish though because I hurt too much today. Speaking before I think, as they say.

 

[Deltrus]

It is because suicide is truth. There is no obvious reason to stay around. And yet every cell in our body has the goal of survival and proliferation. And so suicidal thoughts spread like a virus, one that the "human" hates yet can't ignore.

Suicide also causes suffering in family and friends. They form bonds they cannot bear to have shattered. In my opinion that is their issue. They are not facing the reality that, here on Earth, change happens and is unstoppable. People pop in and out of existance all the time.

Many people have found meaning in their life, a personalized story where they are the main character with a purpose and a destiny. It protects them from suicide and existential dread. The problem is that this is usually not communicable. It may even be spiritual in nature.

Suffering is also truth. It is the worst, most unbearable thing. That makes it special in the universe. Does suffering then have some deeper meaning or function? It is hard to say.

 

[intr0naut]

why we are prevented from committing suicide

I think we don't see the trees for the forest in this case. We keep talking about society but we seems to forget it is made up of individuals.
We are prevented from ending our lives by our own survival instinct; multiply that with the number of individuals making up the society and you have an answer. People oppose suicide (of others) because of their own survival instinct; mirror neurons, like when you react to a punch/kick when watching a movie although you know it's not directed at you.
I have said this many times (not here obviously), i am suicidal, but if i would ever come close to someone on the edge, i would do whatever possible to save them; it's instinct, no control, no time to think. I have a great respect for those who managed to overcome this biological lock we all have.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

We were never free and never owned ourselves.

 

[stuckforawhile]

"Suicide is forbidden because it's illegal to destroy government property". Whoever came up with that was right on the money.

Legalization of suicide would lead to a fundamental change in society: everyone who is miserable is free to quit so the current socio-economic structures would collapse. Psychiatry would lose much of its raison d'être: it'd be difficult to pretend to save lives when suicide would be legal. It'd also be the end of the DSM-madness: if taking your own life is a legal option it can't very well be a symptom of a mental illness can it?

No, this is objectively incorrect. Because suicide is legal in most of the countries on earth. It takes about five seconds to google this well known fact, so I find it puzzling that quite a few people on here keep on with nonsensical rambling about suicide somehow being "illegal".

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

Governments would rather tax and work people to death than let them have peace in the afterlife that's why.

 

[stuckforawhile]

Governments would rather tax and work people to death than let them have peace in the afterlife that's why.

Which governments are those? I mean, since most nations on earth do not have any law against suicide.

 

[GeorgeJL]

My apologies. You are 100% correct. I've just recently rewatched Constantine, but I guess it's not a good idea to base your ideas on a movie.

Edit: Based on some quick research in Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, but...), I found the following basic opinions regarding suicide for the major religions (summarised):

• Judaism: frowned upon
• Christianity
  • Catholicism: objectively a sin which violates the commandment "Thou shalt not kill"
  • Conservative Protestants: argue that suicide is self-murder
• Islam: forbidden
• Buddhism: vague
• Hinduism: spiritually unacceptable

The orginal translation in the bible doesnt even say kill. "It says thou shalt not murder." Lazy Christians can't check the original word. Of course they killed back in the bible. Even in the new testament nobody says police officers for instance shouldn't kill. Again I stand by what I said. Suicide isn't condemned in the bible.

 

[bluesleep]

Well were I live people are against suicide mostly for religious reasons, they think you'll go to hell and stuff if you kill yourself. That's the most common argument against it.

 

[Eily]

While another topic gave good reasons to legalize suicide, I think it is interesting to ask why we are prevented from committing suicide, why we are forbidden, when it would be so easy without this prohibition. ..

My opinion is that we are considered by society as potentially exploitable labor, so if we committed suicide, it would be less manpower.

If you see other reasons why suicide is forbidden, please share them.

I used to be religious so the typical answer would be "because God said it's evil and wrong!!" Now that I've lived a little and decided to go my own way, I realize it's not really "wrong".

Whether people believe in God or not, it doesn't stop them from being afraid of the aftermath. No one TRULY knows what happens when you die, so it frightens the hell out of people!

Because of that, we try to prevent the unthinkable, scary act of death. The truth is, we are all dying. No one is immortal. If you choose to die now, that's your choice but if not, well, you're still going to die later.

Death is completely natural and it's necessary. It's the Earth's way of recycling and making way for new life.

 

[Jean Améry]

No, this is objectively incorrect. Because suicide is legal in most of the countries on earth. It takes about five seconds to google this well known fact, so I find it puzzling that quite a few people on here keep on with nonsensical rambling about suicide somehow being "illegal".

I truly am astounded by your fine legal mind aswell as your impressive research skills. Why didn't I just try to google it, lol.

You clearly fail to grasp the distinction between something being legal de jure (i.e. not expressly forbidden) and de facto (are you in practice free to to choose this option?). The answer in this context is de jure yes, de facto hell no.

While it is true suicide or attempting suicide is now decriminalized in most countries (i.e. no longer an offence against the criminal law and therefore theoretically not punishable given the principle of legality: nulla poena sine lege) that does not mean suicidal behaviour has become legal, i.e. not against the law and therefore allowed. Aslong as there are laws on involuntary commitment that allow the state and psychiatry to prosecute and imprison those who voice intentions to commit suicide, a forteriori those who have plans and the means, suicide is not a right and it is not legal.

Ergo your 'well known fact' is complete balony. I clearly did not state suicide is still widely considered a criminal offence.

Any country that has an involuntary/civil commitment law (under whatever name) that includes the requirement of 'dangerousness to oneself' (which logically implies suicide and to my knowledge in practice it always does as it is considered the extreme end of harm to self) has de facto made suicide illegal.

'Dangerousness to oneself' is a roundabout/covert way of saying 'suicide is against the law/not tolerated by society'.

If suicide were legal as you so boldly claim nobody (the state or any individual) would have a right to interfere with either the preparation or the act itself. Nothing that can result in government sanctioned imprisonment (no matter the exact legal term, how the institution is called and what ostentible purpose is invoked) can ever be legal.

You don't have to take my word for it: by all means publicly voice that you want to kill yourself and have the means to do so. You'll quickly find out how legal it is. When the cops show up to take you to the loony bin (psychiatric prison) you can then raise the impenetrable defense provided to you by attorney at law google: suicide is legal in most countries on earth.

I had quite a laugh about your complete lack of sense and boundless arrogance in this matter. Which doesn't happen very often so I guess I should thank you.

Any first year law student knows there's a world of difference between the theory and practice of law. 'Objectively incorrect because google said so': lmao.

There are many testimonies on this forum alone of people having been/being deprived of their liberty and autonomy over their own body merely for being suicidal. That's how legal it is...

Are you really that naive or are you just trolling?

Which governments are those? I mean, since most nations on earth do not have any law against suicide.

Involuntary commitment laws are anti-suicide laws and almost every country on earth has one. Either you really have no clue or you are trolling.

 

[Deadgirl]

Any country that has an involuntary/civil commitment law (under whatever name) that includes the requirement of 'dangerousness to oneself' (which logically implies suicide and to my knowledge in practice it always does as it is considered the extreme end of harm to self) has de facto made suicide illegal.

I agree with you. Instead of putting you in a jail with correctional officers, they put you in a "hospital" aka psych jail where the nurses are the correctional officers and the psychiatrist is the warden. The only difference is you go to court before you are detained when going to jail and not the psych jail. I hope one day we let people leave peacefully without having the fear of label.
I also think that pro lifers use the term mental illness to say the suicidal person is crazy and doesn't know what they're doing so we should keep them alive because it's not "their true wish". They use that line a lot to reassure themselves that it's a phase, when sometimes it truly is not. My biggest pet peeve is when pro lifers tell me "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". It really is not I've been like this since I was 12. What they don't know is the burden only gets bigger for us, but to them it's temporary so they feel the need to stop us.

 

[Jean Améry]

I agree with you. Instead of putting you in a jail with correctional officers, they put you in a "hospital" aka psych jail where the nurses are the correctional officers and the psychiatrist is the warden. The only difference is you go to court before you are detained when going to jail and not the psych jail. I hope one day we let people leave peacefully without having the fear of label.
I also think that pro lifers use the term mental illness to say the suicidal person is crazy and doesn't know what they're doing so we should keep them alive because it's not "their true wish". They use that line a lot to reassure themselves that it's a phase, when sometimes it truly is not. My biggest pet peeve is when pro lifers tell me "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". It really is not I've been like this since I was 12. What they don't know is the burden only gets bigger for us, but to them it's temporary so they feel the need to stop us.

Indeed. They merely substituted one prison system for another: the act itself and everything it entails is still as illegal and punishable as it was. The only difference is they took the suicide prohibition out of the criminal law and put it in the civil law: a criminal offence became a 'medical emergency' but the result is the same. Imprisonment as punishment for a supposed transgression against society while to me at least it's clear nobody has a more direct and unalienable right over one own's body and mind than the individual herself.

That they claim they are actually serving the best interests of the individual is perverse and nothing short of autocracy (every dictator will claim he acts for 'the good of the people'). It is completely alien to the very concept of individual liberty: that they deny your freedom of will (for which they have no proof other than their mythological constructs called mental diseases X, Y, Z) is nothing short of an attempt at destroying your individuality and dignity as a human-being. Society owns you and just like a slave isn't free to leave so you aren't allowed to seek death to escape your suffering.

What people don't realise is that if the opinion of a 'mental health professional' (the high priests of sanity and reason supposedly) is enough for deprivation of liberty no-one is safe and the whole concept of living freely under the rule of law becomes a joke. Even authorities in the field protest at the insane expansion of the number of official diagnosis' and the number of people who are deemed mentally ill is growing exponentially. Pretty soon no-one will be considered sane, except those doing the diagnosing of course. If that happens they become the rulers and the masters and democracy will be dead and buried.

'Mental illness' is merely a metaphor: a pseudomedical term to mask public dissaproval of social and personal problems and suffering. It can't be diagnosed objectively: all it is is opinion coupled with prejudice.

Imo the only people who really don't know what they are doing are those who are severely intoxicated, high or can't distinguish between reality and fantasy (i.e. a person who thinks he can fly when gravity is a fundamental part of nature). Everything else is just value judgement and social control.

Like most slogans 'suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem' is hopelessly one-sided and so generic it becomes meaningless: it could be that for a lot of people their problems really are only temporary but there's no reason to assume that applies to everyone.

To me life is the problem as it requires constant energy, attention, work... just to maintain it and avoid suffering while in death nothing is needed or wanted and one can't suffer. Life is the exception and the burden, death (non-being) is the normal state so to speak and freedom from everything.

"You may look upon life as an unprofitable episode disturbing the blessed calm of non-existence." (A. Schopenhauer)

 

[NextSummer]

One should not be against "detaining" people who proclaim that they will suicide themselves. They truly might be in a mental breakdown, psychosis or a temporary depression and many of those people truly proclaim some form of happiness to have been saved. I think arguing against this illegality of suicide will bear no fruits. It will strenghen the pro-life position.

Society will always be "in dubio pro life". So what is needed is a way for us to make sure that we are serious and sane enough to make this decision. A waiting period before getting N for example is a way to exclude instable people. Three different doctors judging and approving independantly. And so on

 

[Jean Améry]

One should not be against "detaining" people who proclaim that they will suicide themselves. They truly might be in a mental breakdown, psychosis or a temporary depression and many of those people truly proclaim some form of happiness to have been saved. I think arguing against this illegality of suicide will bear no fruits. It will strenghen the pro-life position.

Society will always be "in dubio pro life". So what is needed is a way for us to make sure that we are serious and sane enough to make this decision. A waiting period before getting N for example is a way to exclude instable people. Three different doctors judging and approving independantly. And so on

So basically you're ok with getting locked up if you want to CTB and they catch you? How do you know you're not experiencing a mental breakdown, psychosis or a temporary depression right now?

By psychiatry's/society's standards we are all bat shit crazy for even considering self-termination. Society is not in doubt about this: they are a 100% certain and will lock up and drug everyone who wants to commit suicide, regardless of how justified/well thought out the reasons. They even deny the very possibility of rational suicide: wanting to die to them is a sure sign of irrationality and defective 'mental health'.

Doctors aren't any better at judging mental suffering than anyone else. There is no objective way to measure psychic pain and so called 'mental illnesses' are balony imo since they cannot possibly be objectively diagnosed. Doctors are only useful when you have a physical ailment.

MD's shouldn't be the arbiter of an individual's fate: he/she should be able to make that decision by themselves.