Discussion Why it's best not to say "I hope you find peace"

[nattys5thtoenail]

I say it because that's how I feel. I want to CTB to finally be at peace from everything that tortures my mind.

Exactly, technically you could argue that it's unethical to stray people away from CTB knowing that they're mentally suffering because of your own guilt and SI. Some people straight up just shouldn't be alive and I support them in taking the initiatives to finding happiness outside of this realm.

If I make a CTB post I would love to have people wish me peace instead of having yns blowing up my phone trying to keep me alive when they just straight up don't know what I've been through. Life is overrated.

 

[AAE]

I don't think that if someone suggests that you join a support group it means that they don't care about you or are palming you off on others. It could just be that they can't relate to your problem or don't know how to help you. Support groups can be helpful. It can be helpful to talk to people who have experienced the same problems you have. They understand better where you are coming from and may be better able to offer you advice than someone who hasn't experienced the same problem and can't relate.

Of course you have to find the right one. Some groups are more helpful than others. I wouldn't be discouraged if you find the people in one group weren't very helpful. It doesn't mean that another support group wouldn't be any better.

Thanks, I get what you mean but it's hard to explain the situation in my country where most people are brainwashed into not caring about anything and get arrested if not acting politically correct. There aren't any real support groups that would work for me since the suffering I have gone through and am still going through is politically incorrect because nobody is allowed to criticize the people responsible. That kind of loneliness is excruciatingly painful. On this forum people can post their story and be met with actual compassion. I know no support groups that would ever do that.

 

[brokeandbroken]

When someone here expresses that they plan on imminent suicide, one of the most common responses is "I hope you find peace" or similar.

There are a number of reasons why I think that, although this is usually well-intentioned, it is a harmful response.

1) It softly pushes someone away.

Look, we don't want to be a cult, but one of the things that suicidal people are most often lacking is connection. Saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't provide that. Instead, try saying things like, "I hear what you're saying", "sounds like you're in a lot of pain", "I went through something similar so I know what you're going through", "my friend had something similar happen to them", "there are support networks for that", "we're here for you." Make people feel connection to others. Try to convey compassion and understanding without encouraging suicide.

2) It encourages suicide.

"I hope you find peace" implies that suicide is a means to achieve peace, and peace is generally considered a good thing. This site takes a radical pro-choice position, but, as I understand it, is very keen not to actively encourage suicide. Linking death and peace serves to make suicide more attractive. To be clear, you have the right to view death as peaceful if you like, but encouraging others to view it that way, or reinforcing such a view, is irresponsible. It is up to the individual to decide whether suicide is right for them, and it is very important for everyone to avoid feeding other people's hopelessness or destructiveness.

3) It makes assumptions about the individual's motives and beliefs.

This is unavoidable to an extent, but it can be alienating to people. I don't, personally, think my death will be peaceful: I think I will be obliterated. There will be no peace, because there will be nothing at all. We've had users here who were convinced they were going to Hell. I would personally try and comfort such a person, but saying "I hope you find peace" doesn't meet them where they are. Others want to commit suicide because they are experiencing psychosis and delusionally think they have to kill themselves. People's reasons for committing suicide are varied, and often aren't about "finding peace".

/r/SuicideWatch put together a guide to avoiding and spotting accidental incitement, which specifically picks out "I hope you find peace" as an unhelpful phrase": https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement

It's very hard to know what to say when discussing suicide, so we're all probably going to get it wrong sometimes, but I think this community's default habit of saying "I hope you find peace" is, in my view, suboptimal.

I'm sure people used this before me but I never read someone using it before I did. So let me address your points.

1) Usually when I say this I have addressed those things prior. It is usually used at the end of a message. It isn't something alone. It's seeing someone addressing their pain. Realizing I can't do anything about it. Realizing I can at least wish whatever battle they are fighting ends in the best way possible and they can reach some inner peace. Because I know what it is like to fight losing battles with your self where you are so beaten down that you just wish for moments of inner peace. To me CTBing is losing that war. It is sad. That sad I can also realize that the people doing it are in incredible amounts of inner turmoil and pain. I hope at the very least peace is found.
2) I deliberately use this because peace can be found without committing suicide but I hope if they do they are reach peace as I believe in the afterlife. I choose this intentionally as it is neutral. I want the best possible outcome of every situation. I believe peace to be that outcome universally. I'm not sure if you are so jaded you don't believe peace cannot be found with CTBing but I do. Maybe I am depressingly optimistic in that way. Not necessarily for me very unlikely. But for others I think it is definitely possible.
3) I hadn't read suicide watch before but I disagree with what they are saying. To me it is neutral. I think it is problematic because no matter what you say it is going to be a problem. The honest truth is every position is going to be a problem. From trying to save everyone to wishing everyone dies. There isn't a good answer. That said in my opinion this is a very neutral response. I know what it is like to be so fucking miserable for so long death seems attractive and right now for me the scale between living and dying is shifting towards dying in a major way. You can only go without anything enjoyable in your life for so long. It isn't my brain doesn't have the capacity to enjoy life. It is my life is miserable and lacking joy. it is my life IS NOT worth living objectively. I don't want to suffer like this for however long. Frankly I know if my life doesn't get better it will actually get worse. That's what happens in life. Especially my current life. This is a long way of saying I know people probably will commit suicide. There is nothing I can do to take that pain away, make their life living, and frankly do things to save them. I wish I could. Just like I know people on here can't do that for me not that people would. The one thing I can say is I hope the war inside you calms and you now or in the afterlife find peace, calm, and just general contentment. Peace may not be what people are lacking for directly. But I find it difficult to believe that if it is found their QOL improves significantly. I know mine would.

As I and you have said there isn't an optimal thing to say. Everything is going to be suboptimal. That said in my view. This is a valid response and the bet I got. As again and the reason I choose it is it applies in every scenario and peace in some form or another is an objectively good thing.

 

[Sutter]

Lot of stress on this one, for good reason I suppose.

People post for contact, to lighten their hearts, to express what they may not be able to elsewhere. I am honored, dam honored to have the opportunity to experience and share what another has opened to me. It is extremely difficult not to make a misstep in life, especially with people.
Believe me when I say I can be that guy. Communication can easily get muddled in text only.

Here is the catch though we just are who we are and follow our hearts where they lead, some better than others I suppose. When I respond to to something I have stopped, focused, and involved part of myself and my time. Which is as important as anyone else's. I mean what I say, so if I had said that and I might have, it is meant in the spirit it was given. That the suffering may come to end, that the pain for all we know stops, that whatever if anything no matter what religion is a peaceful sense of unconsciousness OR that whatever the issue may be resolves itself no longer keeping someone in a state of pain. I have the compassion to accept someone that chooses death as well as life.

Got my fur a little poofed there but I will recover.

 

[Leiot]

Sometimes I wonder if the best thing is to just listen and don't offer anything under than a or a or something. Just let the person know someone is paying attention to their suffering without offering any comments.