Why live instead of not live?

[henry22]

Sorry if the title came off maudlin. What I'm trying to get at is what is the point of living? I don't mean that in any petulant or perverse way. I am genuinely trying to figure out this asymmetry: if you choose not to live, you will not exist to experience missing out on anything. You lose nothing. When people say, "Oh, but you'd miss out on the wonders of life, love, discovery," this doesn't make sense to me because there will be no you to miss these things. Whereas if you choose to live, you will continue to accrue trauma, pain, suffering, regardless of how much good there is in your life.

So what do you think the point of life is? Why is it privileged over simply not existing? When people say to keep going... why? The only legitimate reason I can think of is to spare your friends and family pain but that is not a reason in itself for why life itself is more valuable than ceasing to exist. All these pro-life arguments stem from the premise that life is better than not living. But what makes that premise true?

Edit: I wanted to add for more illustration. They try to save people no matter their circumstances. They may be profoundly impoverished, chronically ill, alone, yet still somehow this life is more valuable than not existing. They dissuade everyone regardless of circumstance from suicide and I'm trying to wrap my head around what makes life so much inherently better than not living. Sorry I'm talking in circles. Just genuinely trying to figure out what underlies the value of life.

 

[unnormal9]

I don't question it, I just want to die.

 

[Little_Suzy]

Just because you can, you keep going.

Everything else that we do is for this same reason. Because, we can!

When we no longer can, then we ctb.

 

[henry22]

Just because you can, you keep going.

Everything else that we do is for this same reason. Because, we can!

When we no longer can, then we ctb.

Why is it not the other way around? You are also able to ctb so why is life privileged?

 

[Someone123]

Most people I know who are not suicidal (as far as I know, and with some people I am quite sure of this) they stay alive because they really enjoy there lives, there is all kinds of pleasure and really positive things socially, and the good outweighs the bad in their lives at least ten to one. If you're enjoying life a lot, why would you want to leave? So it's really no mystery why happy people want to continue to live. For people who struggle with long term depression often the bad outweighs the good, so they want to leave. But if you're really happy most days why leave? I could have had a life like that if I knew when I was younger the things I know now- I still have some good days where I'm like, if most days were like this, I would want to stay until I die by some cause other than ctb.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Why live instead of not live?

Probably has something to do with the unknown regarding what comes after. This has always baffled me, really. Take religious folk, for example, who believe in an afterlife. They get sick, too, yet they still do everything they can, in most cases, to not die. Why? If they're so sure of a "heaven" upon death, why not just let themselves die organically and get there as fast as they can? Could it be because they aren't as sure as they think they are? Hmmm.

 

[nothingissacred]

most of the pro life mentality is probably based in religious ideas, i dont think there is an objective answer to why life is better because in the end it always boils down to "personal preference" for the lack of better words

 

[Slipkorn]

Living is not a problem for me, it's the suffering.

 

[howl pendragon]

Edit: I wanted to add for more illustration. They try to save people no matter their circumstances. They may be profoundly impoverished, chronically ill, alone, yet still somehow this life is more valuable than not existing. They dissuade everyone regardless of circumstance from suicide and I'm trying to wrap my head around what makes life so much inherently better than not living. Sorry I'm talking in circles. Just genuinely trying to figure out what underlies the value of life.

The current of thought that life is something sacred or that it needs to be preserved at all costs is mostly cultural, largely coming from a Christian religious background.

If we look at other societies and cultures, we can find a much more peaceful coexistence with death. In some societies, dying in battle might be a great privilege, in others, the sacrifice of a consort's life at the burial of a departed spouse might be seen as a privilege, or as a certain social obligation.

But in our modern society, death is taboo. Dying is ugly, it's unwanted, it's scary. We distance ourselves from death by placing the stigma of the unwanted visitor on it. I've seen stories where people had accidents, were extremely "damaged", disabled and crippled. And even in a completely horrible situation, where the person couldn't even go to the bathroom alone, or eat, the same speech of "I'm glad you're alive" always comes out, as if surviving was something glorious for someone who can't "live", who can't do anything that gave them pleasure before.

 

[Meretricious]

Optimism Bias is quite a powerful phenomenon. This is why people keep plugging along in life - because they have convinced themselves that things are better than they actually are. This is a big reason people procreate, too. Nostalgia is a similar phenomenon.

If humans didn't have Optimism Biases, nearly everyone would off themselves. If people seriously sat and thought about all of the events that have transpired in their lives (and everyone else's), they'd quickly realize that, in nearly all cases, the bad outweighs the good. Very few exceptions to that rule.

Humans also have an arduous time envisioning life before and after their time span of existence, which is one reason most fear death, regardless of how, or when, it comes.

When you are depressed, the aforementioned bias is broken, malfunctioning, or non-existent. This is why "pro lifers" and "pro choicers" will NEVER understand each other or find reasonable, common ground.

 

[Little_Suzy]

Why is it not the other way around? You are also able to ctb so why is life privileged?

Because not everyone here is a miserable human who despises life and is jaded.

There is so much more out there for me to discover, and my network of supporters is stronger than ever, that now is not the time to quit.

I truly like my life; I am very fortunate. I enjoy people, particularly those that are optimistic and strive to make things better.

My mental condition affects me because it makes my life uncertain. I hate the ups and downs, especially when I am naturally energetic and capable of having a fulfilling life if it weren't for depression. I don't understand why I have to suffer from depression that isn't my fault.

I experience bouts of debilitating exhaustion, and ctb enables me to proceed on my own terms. I prefer ctb over natural death because I like the thought of choosing my own method and ensuring it is up to my standards.


Since none of us choose to be born, the ability to take one's own life is truly a privilege. Suicide is an act of bravery and strength of mind, and I applaud those who find that moment for themselves.

 

[FuneralCry]

I could never understand those people who see existence as being something desirable, they come across as being blinded by their own delusions, I personally despise existing and I just view existence in general as being a mistake, it's a tragedy how existence has tortured sentient beings all throughout history, existence is nothing more than an unnecessary and meaningless cycle of suffering that is just an unfortunate consequence of evolution.

There is no value in something so senseless and futile, it's true that existence is nothing more than a way to harm existing beings all for the sake of it, and to exist means to be a slave, we are slaves to suffering and slaves to our decaying flesh prison in a harsh and chaotic world where only decay, loss and even more suffering is all that is inevitable. I certainly have enough awareness to recognise that existence could never be worth enduring, and I'm only still here because sadly even trying to leave this world involves complications and risks which could lead to way more unbearable torment.

But I certainly think it's irrational to wish to stay in this hellish and harmful world, I could never be delusional enough to desire existing, it isn't like existence in any shape or form could ever appeal to me anyway. No matter the circumstances I view it as always being preferable to not exist, as existence is the ultimate source of all suffering and there are no disadvantages to being unaware of everything.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Sorry if the title came off maudlin. What I'm trying to get at is what is the point of living? I don't mean that in any petulant or perverse way. I am genuinely trying to figure out this asymmetry: if you choose not to live, you will not exist to experience missing out on anything. You lose nothing. When people say, "Oh, but you'd miss out on the wonders of life, love, discovery," this doesn't make sense to me because there will be no you to miss these things. Whereas if you choose to live, you will continue to accrue trauma, pain, suffering, regardless of how much good there is in your life.

So what do you think the point of life is? Why is it privileged over simply not existing? When people say to keep going... why? The only legitimate reason I can think of is to spare your friends and family pain but that is not a reason in itself for why life itself is more valuable than ceasing to exist. All these pro-life arguments stem from the premise that life is better than not living. But what makes that premise true?

Edit: I wanted to add for more illustration. They try to save people no matter their circumstances. They may be profoundly impoverished, chronically ill, alone, yet still somehow this life is more valuable than not existing. They dissuade everyone regardless of circumstance from suicide and I'm trying to wrap my head around what makes life so much inherently better than not living. Sorry I'm talking in circles. Just genuinely trying to figure out what underlies the value of life.

Very good points you made . To me there is no reason to continue living because it's going to end anyway and soon because life is really short ( any older human will tell you this it passes fast) . And I am just preventing any future suffering by choosing not to continue in this evil prison world. I am choosing to avoid that cancer suffering, the bed sores in a nursing home dementia in old age etc.

You are right that there won't be a "me" anymore after death to suffer pain. I think it's one of the reasons why they hide that death is just non-existence forever. If one is sure like I am and you seem to be , are you?
that after death you cease to exist forever then you have no fear and it's something that you know won't cause pain or problems or needs or wants desires non-existence forever . Non-existence forever to me is pure bliss. no chance of pain suffering diseases and all the horrible things that happened all the injustices pain suffering forgotten forever as if that never existed in the first place.

Imagine the alternative an afterlife living for trillions of years remembering this horrible life and all the traumas and suffering.Amazing that they have most wanting to live forever in an afterlife but fearing non-existence.

I think they confuse everything with all these fictional tales of an afterlife or reincarnation or the existence of soul . when you are sure that you cease to exist forever then you can say what you and I are saying that there won't be a you after Death to want or need anything no pain no problems no suffering no diseases . It's the same as before I was born.
It's like going back in time which is also impossible I'm just making an analogy back in time to any year any day an second before you were born lets say 1900 I didn't exist then and had no problems and no problem with not existing either.

Is There Life After Death? The Mind-Body Problem

Death has never been popular. The intuition that the mind is more than the product of the brain and will survive its death feels correct, but is flatly contradicted by science.

www.psychologytoday.com

I think they confuse everything with all these fictional tales of an afterlife or reincarnation or the existence of soul , lies that no one has ever found any experimental evidence for in hundreds of years of trying.

after death you cease to exist forever , this monstrous sentience which can suffer unbearable pain will be no more because it only resides in the neural networks of this monstrous brain that i'm imprisoned in.

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Chatgpt alone should've already proved humans are just machines.

I couldn't care less what another human / small animal / vertebrate / machine does or doesn't do whether they want to live or not doesn't matter to me. That doesn't solve my problems or affect me in any way.All will die anyway . in 100 years what is going to matter? in 500 years? nothing . After I'm dead nothing will matter.

The brains of all animals and vertebrates are virtually identical having all the same parts.

 

[PurpleParadigm]

The only legitimate reason I can think of is to spare your friends and family pain but that is not a reason in itself for why life itself is more valuable than ceasing to exist.

Let me pick out this specific line. Be careful with your words; you should not delegitimise those of us who still try to hold on. It could be, as you say, a feeling of responsibility, love, and commitment to their loved ones. It could be stubbornness, fear, or all those cliché things about exploring the world. Undoubtedly, there are those of us who live for their craft or profession. Any one of these or a combination thereof is valid and should not be dismissed.

There is no need to turn existence into some frightening, malevolent eldritch entity. Chaos begets order; order turns back into chaos and entropy. To understand why we exist, we need to understand why everything exists. However, lacking any such understanding, it is wise not to base your own happiness on a macro scale like that, where nothing is under your control. Think of things you can control and focus on those instead. Living is valid, but so is choosing to end your life when you must.

 

[henry22]

Because not everyone here is a miserable human who despises life and is jaded.

There is so much more out there for me to discover, and my network of supporters is stronger than ever, that now is not the time to quit.

I truly like my life; I am very fortunate. I enjoy people, particularly those that are optimistic and strive to make things better.

My mental condition affects me because it makes my life uncertain. I hate the ups and downs, especially when I am naturally energetic and capable of having a fulfilling life if it weren't for depression. I don't understand why I have to suffer from depression that isn't my fault.

I experience bouts of debilitating exhaustion, and ctb enables me to proceed on my own terms. I prefer ctb over natural death because I like the thought of choosing my own method and ensuring it is up to my standards.


Since none of us choose to be born, the ability to take one's own life is truly a privilege. Suicide is an act of bravery and strength of mind, and I applaud those who find that moment for themselves.

Wow, this was so illuminating. I am so far on the other side that it never even crossed my mind that some people's lives are so good that it's worth the inevitable illness and suffering.

I just read an IG post that was of the same note and it blew my mind. She said she never wanted this to end.

I see where she's coming from because she has the things I want that I don't see happening for me: a husband and a bunch of kids.

 

[Linda]

Sorry if the title came off maudlin. What I'm trying to get at is what is the point of living? I don't mean that in any petulant or perverse way. I am genuinely trying to figure out this asymmetry: if you choose not to live, you will not exist to experience missing out on anything. You lose nothing. When people say, "Oh, but you'd miss out on the wonders of life, love, discovery," this doesn't make sense to me because there will be no you to miss these things. Whereas if you choose to live, you will continue to accrue trauma, pain, suffering, regardless of how much good there is in your life.

So what do you think the point of life is? Why is it privileged over simply not existing? When people say to keep going... why? The only legitimate reason I can think of is to spare your friends and family pain but that is not a reason in itself for why life itself is more valuable than ceasing to exist. All these pro-life arguments stem from the premise that life is better than not living. But what makes that premise true?

Edit: I wanted to add for more illustration. They try to save people no matter their circumstances. They may be profoundly impoverished, chronically ill, alone, yet still somehow this life is more valuable than not existing. They dissuade everyone regardless of circumstance from suicide and I'm trying to wrap my head around what makes life so much inherently better than not living. Sorry I'm talking in circles. Just genuinely trying to figure out what underlies the value of life.

It seems to me that there is no point to life, no ultimate purpose. Each of us is just a lump of matter, and our existence has no more purpose than, say, a lump of rock, or the planet Neptune, or any other example you might care to give. However that does not mean that suicide is obligatory, necessary, or even a good idea. It all depends on circumstances. Since I don't believe in gods, higher powers, ultimate purposes, or any of that kind of stuff, all I am left with for making decisions is practical considerations. Though I didn't ask to be born, it is a fact that I am here. What should I do about it? My answer is, and always has been, that so long as my life is delivering more positive things overall than negative things, I might as well stay. When that ceases to be the case, I will go.

The anti-suicide squad are usually religious, they have a different worldview, and their attitudes derive from that worldview. I think their worldview is absurd (mainly because there is no evidence for it). But, absurd or not, they have no right to impose it on other people who do not share their views. However christianity would not have survived for 2000 years if it played fair. Christianity spread by killing those who refused to convert, and it has always tried to impose its views on others. We must resist them.