Discussion Why it is so hard to be friends with empaths or NTs.

[Dino_flower]

I have always had a lot to say about this, but never bothered to discuss this in a thread. Just to clear things up a little, I'm not an empath and my therapist wanted to diagnose me with a certain disorder(that i'm sure I have) but was hesitant due to specific reasons, that I will not be mentioning. This disorder equates neurodivergency, our brains are simply wired differently than a neurotypical. Now, putting aside terminology, this effects several aspects of my life, but in this thread, I will be talking about relationships in general.

Today, I had successfully angered two of my friends for different reasons. Let's name one of them 'A' and the other 'B'. A was angered by me because of something that I did yesterday and B on the other hand, was mad at me because I supposedly hurt B by something that I said. Now, both the scenarios have something in common, apart from the obvious : I didn't think they would take me seriously.

Now to elaborate the conflict : A was mad at me because I asked her not to do something(in terms of etiquette, as it appears immature) but was stubborn and asked me to stop talking. B was hurt because I screamed out an inside joke about B being bad at cooking, when B has never cooked in their life.

I'm an honest individual in terms of topics like these, and as for me, I never take my friends' comments seriously no matter how 'hurtful' they can be. I have good cognitive empathy but I tend to ignore the possibly 'hurtful part' of what I tell them, assuming they wouldn't care or would move on.

This seems like something I would do at the start of our friendship, ignorant towards how their brains are wired, but I guess I should be vary of the way NTs function, specifically, empaths. I seem like the jerk in this situation, but hear me out : Some people that I talk to seem to get mad at me over things that I would have no clue about, because in their place, I would simply brush it off.

Mind you, I've had these same people act passive-aggressive with me, blatantly ignore me for no apparent reason and I've had to simply let it go and laugh it away. Then why is it that I should even have to take accountability over things that have hurt them? Or maybe they're too petty over things that shouldn't be 'hurting'?

I'm indifferent towards mending our friendship because I won't gain anything divine from them. As asśhóļish as that sounds, I believe that human relationships have always been a transaction. Most of the time, this takes place in the form of love and care but if I can't recieve anything of need to me from them, then I might as well just cut them off.

On contradiction, I would like to understand from empaths and NT's : what are some things in general, that have hurt you in the past as there I people that I genuinely find fun to be with and wouldn't want something stupid on my side to damage what we have.

 

[6MillionWaystoDie]

Im not sure what you are mentioning specifically has something to do with being an NT. Im not so sure it has anything to do with being an empath either.

Nothing in this post is saying "Aha!!! NT-problematic for sure!" Possibly Empath-problematic due to empaths being more sensitive in general as humans, but I'm still hesitant to affiliate the two. Many people site causation when there is merely low correlation.

Can you be more specific about the patterns you have noted that exist in your NT or empath interactions? How are each of these types responding to you, and how do their functions make them more likely to respond in this way vs. the functions of a different type?

I'm an honest individual in terms of topics like these, and as for me, I never take my friends' comments seriously no matter how 'hurtful' they can be. I have good cognitive empathy but I tend to ignore the possibly 'hurtful part' of what I tell them, assuming they wouldn't care or would move on.

I'm not sure your self-proclaimed honesty is helpful. Every human has a blindspot. You can be an honest person with a blindspot that makes you impervious to how you or your actions affect others.




In general empaths can be sensitive so just don't make fun of them about sensitive topics. If you're a perpetual joker or one to brush things off and your friend is not, then either don't make the joke or find someone else to joke with in that way. Each person deserves to be treated as they ask. Just because you aren't sensitive to cooking jokes or jokes about your shortcomings doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't be. Thats the beauty of the world. We're all different. Just piss elsewhere. Sure its annoying if you've bonded with this person already but that's life.

If you are bringing up someone's passive-aggressive behavior towards you then you are not being totally honest with yourself that you are able to brush off things others say to you. I say this because you are now entering a tic for tac argument to justify your pov. Maybe they are being passive aggressive in response to your cooking jokes. Then maybe its all equal in the grand scheme.

I'm indifferent towards mending our friendship because I won't gain anything divine from them. As asśhóļish as that sounds, I believe that human relationships have always been a transaction. Most of the time, this takes place in the form of love and care but if I can't recieve anything of need to me from them, then I might as well just cut them off.

I'm not fully sure I believe you. I tend not to discuss or let people occupy my thoughts that have nothing to offer me. On the other hand maybe you just want to vent. Then that's totally inline. But if you are debating cutting them off, then you see value in the interaction even if you don't readily recognize it.



As an NT not much bothers me. Illogical sh*t bothers me. Or people not thinking before they speak and interact with me bothers me. If we spoke about something ad-nauseum then you ask me a question about it as if we never spoke about the topic then that would piss me off. When I speak with someone ad-nauseum about anything I do so because the topic is important to me and you are important enough to me to make it clear to you so you have no questions about it.

But if someone makes a mistake and recognizes it right away and is willing to apologize or recant I can move on quickly. If they continue to repeat the same mistake however there will be a point of no return. However the things that get to a point of no return for me are fairly little.

I can take humor or someone poking fun at me but there are topics that are just off limits and I expect someone who knows me for some time to quickly figure those topics out. Why? Because I have no problem saying that its off limits and I expect you to respect what I say, just as I would for you.


One more thing. I'm not sure I agree with you 'policing' someone's etiquette. I'd have to know more to fully comment though.

 

[Dino_flower]

Taking notes. Here's the thing : I haven't done the same thing for B before, but for A, I have asked them before, not to loudly speak negatively about someone right in front of them. If A has anything to say, A can whisper it to me if the person's around. As for B, I was teasing B about something that she seemed that she didn't take seriously. Neither did she mention that she was uncomfortable, nor did she seem mad at me. As friends, we tend to tease eachother over lame things that nobody in our group pays heed to. I opened my texts to "you're so mean and rude" and my head went blank for a second. I do believe that being straight forward with someone about these things can lead to a much better outcome than leaving it to them to figure it out, but I get what you're saying about them being aware of it. Also, I'm not debating cutting them off, I've made up my mind, although, I genuinely felt that it would be better for me to discuss this as a thread because I've never talked about this to anyone before. I've apologised B, as I want to keep going with them, I've simply discarded A.

If you are bringing up someone's passive-aggressive behavior towards you then you are not being totally honest with yourself that you are able to brush off things others say to you. I say this because you are now entering a tic for tac argument to justify your pov. Maybe they are being passive aggressive in response to your cooking jokes. Then maybe its all equal in the grand scheme.

Alright detective, being passive-aggressive is different from joking. Most of my friends don't care about the jokes that I tell them, and the same applies to me. And what's the probability that they're passive-aggressive with me over something like a joke? Infact, I'm not a joker by profession that I would be pulling someone's leg every now and then.

If you are bringing up someone's passive-aggressive behavior towards you then you are not being totally honest with yourself that you are able to brush off things others say to you. I say this because you are now entering a tic for tac argument to justify your pov. Maybe they are being passive aggressive in response to your cooking jokes. Then maybe its all equal in the grand scheme.

Alright detective, being passive-aggressive is different from joking. Most of my friends don't care about the jokes that I tell them, and the same applies to me. And what's the probability that they're passive-aggressive with me over something like a joke? Infact, I'm not a joker by profession that I would be pulling someone's leg every now and then.

I'm not sure your self-proclaimed honesty is helpful. Every human has a blindspot. You can be an honest person with a blindspot that makes you impervious to how you or your actions affect others.

I speak on my part, in the sense that I'm not making anything up. Yes, I could not be unaware of what you refer to as 'blindspot', however, I speak truthfully on what I'm aware of.

In general empaths can be sensitive so just don't make fun of them about sensitive topics. If you're a perpetual joker or one to brush things off and your friend is not, then either don't make the joke or find someone else to joke with in that way. Each person deserves to be treated as they ask. Just because you aren't sensitive to cooking jokes or jokes about your shortcomings doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't be. Thats the beauty of the world. We're all different. Just piss elsewhere. Sure its annoying if you've bonded with this person already but that's life.

Seems like you're loading things. I don't welcome assumptions, but regardless, you're free to believe what you want to. I'm not going to kick someone's gut and laugh at them while calling them an empath, if that's what you mean. I'm not a sadist, and empaths aren't sweet as sugar, dressed up as saints. I've heard several 'people' wanting to 'remove' non-empaths from society, but inspite of that, I won't point a dagger at anyone who wants to be addressed as an empath. My first part was venting(incase you didn't know, you can be a non-empath and want to 'vent') and the second part was of learning, how I can do better.

Nothing in this post is saying "Aha!!! NT-problematic for sure!" Possibly Empath-problematic due to empaths being more sensitive in general as humans, but I'm still hesitant to affiliate the two. Many people site causation when there is merely low correlation.

That was on me, my thread does seem like I'm relating the two. To frame it better, I usually tend to have similar issues with people that are NTs or empaths. I don't recall having these problems with anyone else.

Can you be more specific about the patterns you have noted that exist in your NT or empath interactions? How are each of these types responding to you, and how do their functions make them more likely to respond in this way vs. the functions of a different type?

My NT or empath interactions go something like this : one of such friends of mine calls me a loser as a joke and I call them the same. Now they're suddenly taken aback and try to change the topic out of surprise. Some of them simply get quiet and look at me like I did something horrendous. I have a friend of a different type who, as you would expect, doesn't have a problem with me doing the same with her. She brushes it off like I do, or agrees with me.

 

[SexyIncél]

Eh, people have their quirks, petty or not. Who knows, some get salty because mockery preceded violence

Self-deprecating jokes are often safe. As long as you don't cross into self-disrespecting. You can make fun of tiny absurd things you do that others do too, so they laugh sympathetically

You can mock bullies, and those who bond over friendly mocking. But some of those who bond over friendly mocking, often hate when you do it publicly, especially around people they want to impress

Also, almost everyone loves when you mock people they hate

Basically, keep the target in mind

 

[6MillionWaystoDie]

Taking notes. Here's the thing : I haven't done the same thing for B before, but for A, I have asked them before, not to loudly speak negatively about someone right in front of them. If A has anything to say, A can whisper it to me if the person's around. As for B, I was teasing B about something that she seemed that she didn't take seriously. Neither did she mention that she was uncomfortable, nor did she seem mad at me. As friends, we tend to tease eachother over lame things that nobody in our group pays heed to. I opened my texts to "you're so mean and rude" and my head went blank for a second. I do believe that being straight forward with someone about these things can lead to a much better outcome than leaving it to them to figure it out, but I get what you're saying about them being aware of it. Also, I'm not debating cutting them off, I've made up my mind, although, I genuinely felt that it would be better for me to discuss this as a thread because I've never talked about this to anyone before. I've apologised B, as I want to keep going with them, I've simply discarded A.

Alright detective, being passive-aggressive is different from joking. Most of my friends don't care about the jokes that I tell them, and the same applies to me. And what's the probability that they're passive-aggressive with me over something like a joke? Infact, I'm not a joker by profession that I would be pulling someone's leg every now and then.

Alright detective, being passive-aggressive is different from joking. Most of my friends don't care about the jokes that I tell them, and the same applies to me. And what's the probability that they're passive-aggressive with me over something like a joke? Infact, I'm not a joker by profession that I would be pulling someone's leg every now and then.

I speak on my part, in the sense that I'm not making anything up. Yes, I could not be unaware of what you refer to as 'blindspot', however, I speak truthfully on what I'm aware of.

Seems like you're loading things. I don't welcome assumptions, but regardless, you're free to believe what you want to. I'm not going to kick someone's gut and laugh at them while calling them an empath, if that's what you mean. I'm not a sadist, and empaths aren't sweet as sugar, dressed up as saints. I've heard several 'people' wanting to 'remove' non-empaths from society, but inspite of that, I won't point a dagger at anyone who wants to be addressed as an empath. My first part was venting(incase you didn't know, you can be a non-empath and want to 'vent') and the second part was of learning, how I can do better.

That was on me, my thread does seem like I'm relating the two. To frame it better, I usually tend to have similar issues with people that are NTs or empaths. I don't recall having these problems with anyone else.

My NT or empath interactions go something like this : one of such friends of mine calls me a loser as a joke and I call them the same. Now they're suddenly taken aback and try to change the topic out of surprise. Some of them simply get quiet and look at me like I did something horrendous. I have a friend of a different type who, as you would expect, doesn't have a problem with me doing the same with her. She brushes it off like I do, or agrees with me.

I'm not following you. And my original comment still stands. Nothing in this post has anything to do specifically with NTs or Empaths.

There are no specific traits that you labeled that point directly to these two people acting differently than others with different labels. IMO you have created a relationship between 2 things but have not created a proper argument to conclude that these things solely occur with NT people or Empath people. This can just be coincidence or quirkiness in people as @absurdtimeline has mentioned.

I'd caution you on using those labels without discussing how the characteristics of the label apply and what specifically makes the person more prone to behaving in one specific way vs. behaving in another way consistent with another MBTI type.

Furthermore, there are many people who are mistyped. The tests online often give the wrong result 70% of the time. Thats quite a huge variance. Often the test gives wrong results specifically on the N/S and T/F characteristics. The tests are solely dependent on how one views themselves which once again can involve blindspots. Secondly, many of the tests don't go in depth enough to draw accurate and consistent conclusions.

I once dated someone who swore they were the same type as me but couldn't see how different we were from each other. They couldn't see how their traits, functions and motivations were different from mine. Yet they were stuck on the label, and still mistype themself to this day. IMO they've done themselves a huge disservice. I was able to explain in great detail why we were quite different and how they matched another profile but they couldn't explain to me how we were the same and why they matched my profile. This is an example of the ways these tests and profiles are often misused and prove useless to those seeking answers.

Theres a lot more in depth explanation of how the functions show up in people. I don't endorse this site below and haven't read through it in depth but I'm posting it because it goes into greater depth of how the functions work. Most people use the label but aren't aware of the functions. For example there are 8 different N types but one letter flip can make one N-person light years different from another N-person due to the priority in the functions.

The 8 Myers-Briggs (MBTI) Cognitive Functions: Your Personality, Explained

No personality test necessary.

www.wellandgood.com

 

[nonialabaster]

I have always had a lot to say about this, but never bothered to discuss this in a thread. Just to clear things up a little, I'm not an empath and my therapist wanted to diagnose me with a certain disorder(that i'm sure I have) but was hesitant due to specific reasons, that I will not be mentioning. This disorder equates neurodivergency, our brains are simply wired differently than a neurotypical. Now, putting aside terminology, this effects several aspects of my life, but in this thread, I will be talking about relationships in general.

Today, I had successfully angered two of my friends for different reasons. Let's name one of them 'A' and the other 'B'. A was angered by me because of something that I did yesterday and B on the other hand, was mad at me because I supposedly hurt B by something that I said. Now, both the scenarios have something in common, apart from the obvious : I didn't think they would take me seriously.

Now to elaborate the conflict : A was mad at me because I asked her not to do something(in terms of etiquette, as it appears immature) but was stubborn and asked me to stop talking. B was hurt because I screamed out an inside joke about B being bad at cooking, when B has never cooked in their life.

I'm an honest individual in terms of topics like these, and as for me, I never take my friends' comments seriously no matter how 'hurtful' they can be. I have good cognitive empathy but I tend to ignore the possibly 'hurtful part' of what I tell them, assuming they wouldn't care or would move on.

This seems like something I would do at the start of our friendship, ignorant towards how their brains are wired, but I guess I should be vary of the way NTs function, specifically, empaths. I seem like the jerk in this situation, but hear me out : Some people that I talk to seem to get mad at me over things that I would have no clue about, because in their place, I would simply brush it off.

Mind you, I've had these same people act passive-aggressive with me, blatantly ignore me for no apparent reason and I've had to simply let it go and laugh it away. Then why is it that I should even have to take accountability over things that have hurt them? Or maybe they're too petty over things that shouldn't be 'hurting'?

I'm indifferent towards mending our friendship because I won't gain anything divine from them. As asśhóļish as that sounds, I believe that human relationships have always been a transaction. Most of the time, this takes place in the form of love and care but if I can't recieve anything of need to me from them, then I might as well just cut them off.

On contradiction, I would like to understand from empaths and NT's : what are some things in general, that have hurt you in the past as there I people that I genuinely find fun to be with and wouldn't want something stupid on my side to damage what we have.

Sounds like you're just a jerk.

 

[Abandoned Character]

It's impossible to deduce anything definitive about you or your relationships from this post, but what I can say is that I think seeing relationships as transactions makes a lot of sense. So long as you feel satisfied without Person A in your life, so be it. I also agree with the poster saying this isn't strictly an empath/NT thing. Relationships are work and often times require some level of friction to deepen. People come in a variety of ways too, so it's only natural you would experience some level of incompatibility with someone eventually.