Discussion Why isn't N being produced underground in pill form?

[Depressed Cat]

N or sodium pentobarbital is the gold standard when it comes to a peaceful exit. There is currently nothing that even comes close to it as far as a peaceful and dignified means of exit is concerned.

At present, only euthanasia organisations in Switzerland (& elsewhere) use sodium pentobarbital as it is meant to be used. They use good, drinkable sodium pentobarbital from what I've heard.

The rest of us have to obtain veterinary sodium pentobarbital which is meant to be injected into animals to put them to sleep. This kind of veterinary N can also be drunk by humans and does the job just as well, but it has an extremely horrible taste!!

Only a few decades back, people had it even better. Pentobarbital and similar barbiturates were available in pill form, and were widely used as sleeping aids. They were even available over the counter in some countries like mine. One could pop a pill or two to enjoy a deep sleep, and one could simply CTB by overdosing on a whole bottle of pills. CTB was so simple, easy, effortless, painless and peaceful!



Then too many people CTB using this simple, peaceful and dignified method, including several celebrities. Around the same time, benzodiazepines became more widely available. This prompted the anti-choice horde to strike. They ensured that wonderful barbiturates were controlled & discouraged, and pushed pathetic benzodiazepines as sleeping aids instead. Eventually, the rabid anti-choice horde ensured that barbs were outlawed as sleeping aids completely. Benzos replaced them, and manufacturers stopped the production of barbs altogether.

Now, we are faced with a shocking scenario where even veterinary N may become unavailable in the not-too-distant future

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/global-nembutal-shortage.88350/

My question is, why is sodium pentobarbital not being produced underground in pill form??

There is a huge demand for sodium pentobarbital pills, not only for CTB, but also as a sleeping aid. Barbs are far superior to pathetic benzos as sleeping aids. And obviously, the worldwide market for CTB barb pills would be absolutely huge in itself!

Why don't we have an underground producer of sodium pentobarbital in pill form anywhere in the world? It cannot be that difficult to produce, can it? It was being widely produced by pharmaceutical companies only a few decades back.

Moreover, sodium pentobarbital is not an illegal substance at all in many jurisdictions. Many hard drugs are illegal, yet they are available through drug dealers.

An underground producer would not need to produce CTB pills as such. They only need to produce sodium pentobarbital pills in the therapeutic doses that were produced a few decades back. People who want to use it as a sleeping aid can do so, and people who want to CTB can simply overdose on it according to their weight.



There are enough countries in the world where law enforcement is very lax and/or highly corrupt, and where the machines and ingredients to produce pentobarbital in pill form are available. Why isn't it being done? I guess someone like Dr. Philip Nitschke or any smart entrepreneur can simply set up base in such a country, start churning out sodium pentobarbital pills in therapeutic doses, and sell/supply them all across the world. They can make huge profits in doing so. Why isn't it being done? Any idea?

 

[lostmylove]

Now that benzodiazepines are so popular and profitable there is no desire to make pentobarbital pills, would be crazy decision.

You know how bad this generation is addicted to Xanax, imagine them going to Nembutal and just overdosing you'd have hundreds of thousands dead in a year and infinite law suits off crying parents.

 

[Istanbulite]

Now that benzodiazepines are so popular and profitable there is no desire to make pentobarbital pills, would be crazy decision.

You know how bad this generation is addicted to Xanax, imagine them going to Nembutal and just overdosing you'd have hundreds of thousands dead in a year and infinite law suits off crying parents.

but he said underground, not via companies

 

[lostmylove]

but he said underground, not via companies

Yes but also said the demand was based off needing a sleeping aid. Very niche imo and not able to be mass produced for that reason

 

[Istanbulite]

Yes but also said the demand was based off needing a sleeping aid. Very niche imo and not able to be mass produced for that reason

yea, i dont agree with that part either

 

[LifeQuitter2018]

You can also ask the same questions with H or F, CF.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Using pentobarbital for sleep is a bad idea. Very fast tolerance. After a while, you start using it just to prevent withdrawal.

 

[Pain In The Ass]

It is a good point - an underground lab in each country could sell a CTB dose for £1000 without the fear of customs finding it - 1000 customers and they'd be millionaires!

 

[YourNeighbor]

You're asking why someone doesn't set up a lab making pills that are specifically made to kill people?

Probably a risk/reward calculus. Illicit drug producers prefer repeat customers, and would rather not be targeted by law enforcement for intentionally pushing a lethal product. Any such producer would quickly move to the top of the enforcement priority hierarchy. Cartels and others with the means to pull something like this off are not necessarily entirely stupid.

 

[Al Cappella]

Simply put, there's no money in it. There clearly is not a huge demand for it, or it would have been filled by now.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

You're asking why someone doesn't set up a lab making pills that are specifically made to kill people?

Probably a risk/reward calculus. Illicit drug producers prefer repeat customers, and would rather not be targeted by law enforcement for intentionally pushing a lethal product. Any such producer would quickly move to the top of the enforcement priority hierarchy. Cartels and others with the means to pull something like this off are not necessarily entirely stupid.

This guy gets it. I recently asked an international trafficker in person if he could get N. He told me no and instantly he started asking me what else I wanted and offered to hook me up with some other things I can take to go out, but he was trying to get my hyped up to buy things I could enjoy before I went.

I think the two considerations are repeat customers and geopolitical reasons. The Chinese are responsible for a huge share of the drug trade into other countries as they have taken a page from the British playbook that was used on them in the 1800s. It's very clear from all the evidence available state affiliated Chinese cartels are pushing drugs in the west. They busted a local red neck in my neck of the woods and the mother fuckers had Hong Kong bank accounts . Now why would they have had that when there are so many better and closer jurisdictions available that are more western affiliated money laundering centers ? The accused were lily white American born and bred. I think the Chinese traffickers much more want a slow kill deal to the Americans. They know if they get these motherfuckers on fentanyl or heroin the people who enable them will load them up with cash and take the financial dysfunction up to 11 in the US. Tons of junkies on the street also makes the physical decay very ugly. If the cartels were to sell N, all of this goes away. The Chinese and other cartels are much happier with broke and addled Americans who will max out every CC for more and totally ruin the country. With n the people just die .

My 2c

 

[Al_stargate]

Don't know about N but some chemicals are incredibly hard to synthesize, it requires expertise, equipment, and time. And hardy anyone in the 'normal' world would want to produce death pill even if they had the means for it. Just too many cons. Any producer of drugs doesn't sell them directly to customers but has dealers. D is selling directly to customers via mail, making him an easy target if any law enforcement agency would be after him. And as stated above, the market is just to small and requires some larger lead or entity to 'notify' people of such presence. All these things make it practically no go from the start.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Don't know about N but some chemicals are incredibly hard to synthesize, it requires expertise, equipment, and time. And hardy anyone in the 'normal' world would want to produce death pill even if they had the means for it. Just too many cons. Any producer of drugs doesn't sell them directly to customers but has dealers. D is selling directly to customers via mail, making him an easy target if any law enforcement agency would be after him. And as stated above, the market is just to small and requires some larger lead or entity to 'notify' people of such presence. All these things make it practically no go from the start.

Yeh it's a small market. How much do we think Ds production or acquisition cost is. I bet it's low and all marked up because he doesn't do much volume.

How many doses could he be providing annually , a few thousand tops ?

 

[Al_stargate]

Yeh it's a small market. How much do we think Ds production or acquisition cost is. I bet it's low and all marked up because he doesn't do much volume.

How many doses could he be providing annually , a few thousand tops ?

I actually wrote a post about that in another thread:

How much do you guys think D is making with his N selling operation. His margins are insane, a bottle of vet N from what I've read costs like 50 bucks so I think 500-1000 is his margin per order (depending on 1 or 2 bottles). I don't think it's a stretch to say he sells 10 a day. This forum has on average I believe around 700 visitors at any given time. Unique daily visitors are in the thousands. Most visitors, not members of course, but I think visitors can see suicide discussion section. A good part of those thousands of people visiting this site have suicidal tendencies and looking for an easy method. Honestly, I think D might be selling even more than 10 a day, but let's say 10. 10 orders times 750 bucks would be 7.5k USD a day. About 230k a month or 2.7 mills a year.
I think D probably works in a larger vet clinic or has contact to the distributor of this stuff. No mom-and-pop veterinary shop could provide this much N without raising some red flags.

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I actually wrote a post about that in another thread:

How much do you guys think D is making with his N selling operation. His margins are insane, a bottle of vet N from what I've read costs like 50 bucks so I think 500-1000 is his margin per order (depending on 1 or 2 bottles). I don't think it's a stretch to say he sells 10 a day. This forum has on average I believe around 700 visitors at any given time. Unique daily visitors are in the thousands. Most visitors, not members of course, but I think visitors can see suicide discussion section. A good part of those thousands of people visiting this site have suicidal tendencies and looking for an easy method. Honestly, I think D might be selling even more than 10 a day, but let's say 10. 10 orders times 750 bucks would be 7.5k USD a day. About 230k a month or 2.7 mills a year.
I think D probably works in a larger vet clinic or has contact to the distributor of this stuff. No mom-and-pop veterinary shop could provide this much N without raising some red flags.

Thanks for your insight.

All I know is I respect D for providing it. This stuff should be available to whoever wants it.

 

[Pluto]

I've had similar musings myself.

You know how some pills are just liquid-filled capsules? Perhaps one could even DIY putting N inside without needing any advanced pharmaceutical knowledge.

As for the market, it's analogous to various other industries. Why does no automaker (well, except for one) want to sell EVs that require almost no servicing? Why don't fossil fuel companies like renewables? Big business likes repeat customers.

Secondly, a pill specifically designed for death would probably trigger even more attention from law enforcement than recreational drugs. At least the current N market is too small to be statistically significant, though unlikely to remain so.

As for D, if he is raking in millions, one would wonder why there's no competition. But then again, a few million is very little by Mexican cartel standards...

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

I've had similar musings myself.

You know how some pills are just liquid-filled capsules? Perhaps one could even DIY putting N inside without needing any advanced pharmaceutical knowledge.

As for the market, it's analogous to various other industries. Why does no automaker (well, except for one) want to sell EVs that require almost no servicing? Why don't fossil fuel companies like renewables? Big business likes repeat customers.

Secondly, a pill specifically designed for death would probably trigger even more attention from law enforcement than recreational drugs. At least the current N market is too small to be statistically significant, though unlikely to remain so.

As for D, if he is raking in millions, one would wonder why there's no competition. But then again, a few million is very little by Mexican cartel standards...

I think the fossil fuel companies don't like renewables because they're a scam at least in the sense they can't give us the lifestyle most people clamor for . They're insufficient on their own so we still go for oil .

But to the core point yeh you're right its a joke market for the cartel . Probably some of the richest people in the world

 

[MG_39]

I actually wrote a post about that in another thread:

How much do you guys think D is making with his N selling operation. His margins are insane, a bottle of vet N from what I've read costs like 50 bucks so I think 500-1000 is his margin per order (depending on 1 or 2 bottles). I don't think it's a stretch to say he sells 10 a day. This forum has on average I believe around 700 visitors at any given time. Unique daily visitors are in the thousands. Most visitors, not members of course, but I think visitors can see suicide discussion section. A good part of those thousands of people visiting this site have suicidal tendencies and looking for an easy method. Honestly, I think D might be selling even more than 10 a day, but let's say 10. 10 orders times 750 bucks would be 7.5k USD a day. About 230k a month or 2.7 mills a year.
I think D probably works in a larger vet clinic or has contact to the distributor of this stuff. No mom-and-pop veterinary shop could provide this much N without raising some red flags.

It's more likely that D is a cartel employee. And the cartel have access to Nembutal from producers (the amounts are so small so the amount of precursors needed to supply the cartel can be written off as thrown out because of contamination in the production)

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

It's more likely that D is a cartel employee. And the cartel have access to Nembutal from producers (the amounts are so small so the amount of precursors needed to supply the cartel can be written off as thrown out because of contamination in the production)

I buy your argument that the guy is cartel. If the only place in the world that is shipping this stuff is Mexico it's likely cartel.

We only see this one source pop up and nowhere else which tells you some local weenies aren't able to do it.

I'm not retired DEA so I stick to my area of expertise couldn't really comment any further

 

[lifeisbutadream]

For years there was a succession of sellers from China selling powdered n, but always only one at a time. Why no competition in such a high profit business? They must have been sanctioned by the government. Then a few years ago the last seller who went under the name "Johnson" abruptly dissapeared. Mysterious and unexplained.

 

[makethepainstop]

N or sodium pentobarbital is the gold standard when it comes to a peaceful exit. There is currently nothing that even comes close to it as far as a peaceful and dignified means of exit is concerned.

At present, only euthanasia organisations in Switzerland (& elsewhere) use sodium pentobarbital as it is meant to be used. They use good, drinkable sodium pentobarbital from what I've heard.

The rest of us have to obtain veterinary sodium pentobarbital which is meant to be injected into animals to put them to sleep. This kind of veterinary N can also be drunk by humans and does the job just as well, but it has an extremely horrible taste!!

Only a few decades back, people had it even better. Pentobarbital and similar barbiturates were available in pill form, and were widely used as sleeping aids. They were even available over the counter in some countries like mine. One could pop a pill or two to enjoy a deep sleep, and one could simply CTB by overdosing on a whole bottle of pills. CTB was so simple, easy, effortless, painless and peaceful!

View attachment 90272

Then too many people CTB using this simple, peaceful and dignified method, including several celebrities. Around the same time, benzodiazepines became more widely available. This prompted the anti-choice horde to strike. They ensured that wonderful barbiturates were controlled & discouraged, and pushed pathetic benzodiazepines as sleeping aids instead. Eventually, the rabid anti-choice horde ensured that barbs were outlawed as sleeping aids completely. Benzos replaced them, and manufacturers stopped the production of barbs altogether.

Now, we are faced with a shocking scenario where even veterinary N may become unavailable in the not-too-distant future

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/global-nembutal-shortage.88350/

My question is, why is sodium pentobarbital not being produced underground in pill form??

There is a huge demand for sodium pentobarbital pills, not only for CTB, but also as a sleeping aid. Barbs are far superior to pathetic benzos as sleeping aids. And obviously, the worldwide market for CTB barb pills would be absolutely huge in itself!

Why don't we have an underground producer of sodium pentobarbital in pill form anywhere in the world? It cannot be that difficult to produce, can it? It was being widely produced by pharmaceutical companies only a few decades back.

Moreover, sodium pentobarbital is not an illegal substance at all in many jurisdictions. Many hard drugs are illegal, yet they are available through drug dealers.

An underground producer would not need to produce CTB pills as such. They only need to produce sodium pentobarbital pills in the therapeutic doses that were produced a few decades back. People who want to use it as a sleeping aid can do so, and people who want to CTB can simply overdose on it according to their weight.

View attachment 90273

There are enough countries in the world where law enforcement is very lax and/or highly corrupt, and where the machines and ingredients to produce pentobarbital in pill form are available. Why isn't it being done? I guess someone like Dr. Philip Nitschke or any smart entrepreneur can simply set up base in such a country, start churning out sodium pentobarbital pills in therapeutic doses, and sell/supply them all across the world. They can make huge profits in doing so. Why isn't it being done? Any idea?

I think the most modern underground drugs are Fentanyl and meth. I would love to have these other drugs tho, they work painlessly!

 

[Smart No More]

For years there was a succession of sellers from China selling powdered n, but always only one at a time. Why no competition in such a high profit business? They must have been sanctioned by the government. Then a few years ago the last seller who went under the name "Johnson" abruptly dissapeared. Mysterious and unexplained.

The same thing happened to C (Cindicator - the most recent source for powder N) earlier this year. Vanished suddenly and a colleague posted on their site saying they vanished unexpectedly and all current orders would be refunded. Shortly after that the sites vanished too. They'd been around for some time (years) previously. Incidentally this occurred just after a new batch of N went up for sale. They sold a few things. Precursors and various "research chemicals" amogst others.

I think the most modern underground drugs are Fentanyl and meth. I would love to have these other drugs tho, they work painlessly!

Fentanyl and Methamphetamine* are far from "the most modern undergeound drugs". There's a whole world of others out there!

AH-7921
U-47700
acetylfentanyl
butyrylfentanyl
acryloylfentanyl
para-fluorobutyrylfentanyl (PFBF)
para-fluoroisobutyrylfentanyl (PFiBF)
furanylfentanyl
carfentanil (interestingly used in vetinarry medicine)

There's also some analogues that were purchasable legally for some time that were/are much stronger than fentanyl. Protonitazene and Isotonetazine may be the most commonly known ones but there's loads of them and there's likely to be even more in future. The thing is they were flying under the law by being considered research chemicals and as yet not contained in any laws but most places now like the UK and US have created blanket bans on psychoactive substances regardless of whether they're classified or not. This has stunted their availability in the short term but only invites further measures of ingenuity by chemists and sophisticated organisations (read drug dealers if you like) looking to circumnavigate the law to feed a never dying demand for drugs and thw acquisition thereof.


Some of the drugs mentioned above are still obtainable. Some, it would seem are available foe purchase via some clear web sources however getting them past customs may be a gamble. Not impossible I'll wager but a gamble none the less. They generally come from china where they're synthesised so if you ever find a domestic seller you're lucky. From what I've seen on reddit they most certainly exist but for how long I don't know. Its an ever changing landscape. There's much I don't know about it but I'm certain trying to find out. A reliable source for analogues would be a wonderful thing. If anyone happens to know more on this matter and feels like chatting by PM I'm wide open!

I've found listings for these things on dark net markets and clearnet sites. Problem is location and subsequent customs. That's assuming the sellers are real in the first place lol. I'm certain some must be.

*just as an aside, methamphetamine is easy enough to get but it's not a good/peaceful way to ctb. Would be nasty. Please don't try for this if going the illegal drugs route.

 

[makethepainstop]

The same thing happened to C (Cindicator - the most recent source for powder N) earlier this year. Vanished suddenly and a colleague posted on their site saying they vanished unexpectedly and all current orders would be refunded. Shortly after that the sites vanished too. They'd been a round for some time previously. Incidentally thic occurred just after a new batch of N went up for sale. They sold a few things. Precursors and various "research chemical".


Fentanyl and Methamphetamine are far from "the most modern undergeound drugs". There's a whole world of others out there!

AH-7921
U-47700
acetylfentanyl
butyrylfentanyl
acryloylfentanyl
para-fluorobutyrylfentanyl (PFBF)
para-fluoroisobutyrylfentanyl (PFiBF)
furanylfentanyl
carfentanil (interestingly used in vetinarry medicine)

There's also some analogues that were purchasable legally for some time that were/are much stronger than fentanyl. Protonitazene and Isotonetazine may be the most commonly known ones but there's loads of them and there's likely to be even more in future. The thing is they were flying under the law by being considered research chemicals and as yet not contained in any laws but most places now like the UK and US have created blanket bans on psychoactive substances regardless of whether they're classified or not. This has stunted their availability in the short term but only invites further measures of ingenuity by chemists and sophisticated organisations (read drug dealers if you like) looking to circumnavigate the law to feed a never dying demand for drugs and thw acquisition thereof.


Some of the drugs mentioned above are still obtainable. Some, it would seem are available foe purchase via some clear web sources however getting them past customs may be a gamble. Not impossible I'll wager but a gamble none the less. They generally come from china where they're synthesised so if you ever find a domestic seller you're lucky. From what I've seen on reddit they most certainly exist but for how long I don't know. Its an ever changing landscape. There's much I don't know about it but I'm certain trying to find out. A reliable source for analogues would be a wonderful thing. If anyone happens to know more on this matter and feels like chatting by PM I'm wide open!

I've found listings for these things on dark net markets and clearnet sites. Problem is location and subsequent customs. That's assuming the sellers ate real in the first place lol. I'm certain some must be.

Would love to know how to get these!

 

[Smart No More]

Would love to know how to get these!

I mean heroin is pretty easy to get. Whilst it's not fent it's pretty good stuff! Lest we forget that before fent and co. became common on the scene heroin was the devil drug that accidentally took many a life too soon. Interestingly heroin (diamorphine) isn't very toxic at all. Unlike many meds available otc or on prescription pure/clean heroin is actually not bad for you. It's only side effects are lethargy and constipation. Of course anything taken in too high a dose will kill you by its mode of action or side effects of it. With heroin it's ceaasing to breath. Not uncomfortably so though. With water it's a much nasiter overdose which leads to death. As it goes it's a much lower dose of heroin that's needed to overdose than water. This is heroins draw back though I'd argue it's addictive nature is worse. Whilst it's easy to overdose on heroin it's also easy not too if you're sensible. However if you use heroin for a week or two you suffer horrid withdrawals. Thus chaining you to an ongoing fututre of chasing down funds to pay for keeping that sickness off. Though it only takes a week or two of not using for withdrawal to end unlike benzos which can go on indefinitely. Were this not an issue I think it would have a very different public image. Alcohol for example, has an acceptable appearance in many a public picture and setting however its incredibly bad for you. Certainly worse that heroin. However it's addiction comes more slowly. It withdrawal symptom are however much worse. They can and have killed people. Once a person finds themself at a point where they need to drink to avoid this (alcohol addiction) they too become slaves to the need to fund it. The difference being that you can buy it anywhere and in small enough doses to be able to mask the worst of it to public perception. I'm getting side tracked by the scewed public perception on and between "drugs" and blindly accepted "social lubricants" because they're legal. Can't be drugs if legal, right? Drives me nuts how scewed our society is. But again I digress. My point is that heroin is just as useful as all the aforementioned analogue and fentanils if used at a suitable dose for the desired effects. Very easy to obtain too. Whilst dark net markets have a blanket ban on fent they have no issues with heroin and there are probably domestic sellers for most places in the world. If you're really un/lucky you might get heroin adulterated with Fentanyl or any one or more of the available ultra potent analogues.

 

[Euthanza]

Probably chemists who can produce the PP only made it for self use, while selling the PP is another risk.
Someone anyone really need to set up that laboratory.

 

[Smart No More]

Search the one shot coffee pot. I don't know why it hasn't taken off. Apparently it can be done at home by anyone that can source the relevant ingredients.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/euthanasia-coffee-pot-created/news-story/0102bbc320de0b3bff0203299c38ba75

 

[madiroze]

Fascinating thread btw; I'm learning a lot.

 

[Euthanza]

Search the one shot coffee pot. I don't know why it hasn't taken off. Apparently it can be done at home by anyone that can source the relevant ingredients.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/euthanasia-coffee-pot-created/news-story/0102bbc320de0b3bff0203299c38ba75

I have market access to sodium metal and also sodium barbiturate, but I just don't know what to do with it.
Planning 2 years of my life ahead, I need more practical detail informations.

 

[Smart No More]

I have market access to sodium metal and also sodium barbiturate, but I just don't know what to do with it.
Planning 2 years of my life ahead, I need more practical detail informations.

There is a full description somewhere. I'll try ro find it at some point. Bit burned out just now but definitely need to find it. I'll tey to remember to tag you or send you a message when I find it out.

The ppeh has a full desceiption of how to create N too but it's not as simple as this one.