Why isn't carbon monoxide more popular?

[theshund]

A well sealed pop up tent or car + a barbecue grill bucket and 6kg charcoal. It's all readily available without busting out a sweat to source hard to find substances so why is carbon monoxide poisoning not the top method?

 

[roommate]

Because of how the charcoal burns and how the tent/car is sealed seem to have a lot of variables.
Also there might be coming smoke out of the place and people can find you

 

[slowdance]

I'm confused and the megathread links to a dead site. Do you burn the charcoal inside the tent? When do you get in the tent? How long does it take?

 

[theshund]

Because of how the charcoal burns and how the tent/car is sealed seem to have a lot of variables.
Also there might be coming smoke out of the place and people can find you

No smoke if done right. You leave the charcoal to burn down to ash. 3 hours minimum. Then you put it in the tent (pop up waterproof with ground sheet stitched in and all vents and seams sealed with tent repair tape) then take the same anti emmetics and painkillers (for nausea and headache) as you would with SN, get in the tent with the grill and wait. People have talked about CO gauges but seems unnecessary as physics and biology are consistent. As long as you do it after dark away from people... I've been camping many times and never had someone randomly enter my tent after dark.

I'm confused and the megathread links to a dead site. Do you burn the charcoal inside the tent? When do you get in the tent? How long does it take?

No, you pretend to have a barbecue outside the tent, like people do. Leave the charcoal to burn down to grey ash, 3 hours minimum. By that time there's no smoke, only a little heat. The tent needs to be weatherproof with the ground sheet sewn in, so a little one man pop up tent would be ideal. Use a bucket grill with a handle so you can carry the thing and set it on a patio slab or bricks in the tent to prevent scorching. Like I said above, people seem overly concerned about the headache and nausea but this is no different from SN, so the same prep for SN should be used, lots of anti-emmetics and painkillers, then lie down and go to sleep.

 

[slowdance]

If you don't have anti-emmetics, will throwing up make it less effective?

 

[theshund]

If you don't have anti-emmetics, will throwing up make it less effective?

No, just less peaceful. You can get anti emmetics online very easily. Make sure it's the dopamine inhibitor kind. I think that's right. Check the SN megathread. It's the recommended one.

 

[slowdance]

Thank you. I think this is the way for me. Much easier than finding DMC. I think folks may be hesitant because of the risk of brain damage from failing

 

[roommate]

No smoke if done right. You leave the charcoal to burn down to ash. 3 hours minimum. Then you put it in the tent (pop up waterproof with ground sheet stitched in and all vents and seams sealed with tent repair tape) then take the same anti emmetics and painkillers (for nausea and headache) as you would with SN, get in the tent with the grill and wait. People have talked about CO gauges but seems unnecessary as physics and biology are consistent. As long as you do it after dark away from people... I've been camping many times and never had someone randomly enter my tent after dark.

No, you pretend to have a barbecue outside the tent, like people do. Leave the charcoal to burn down to grey ash, 3 hours minimum. By that time there's no smoke, only a little heat. The tent needs to be weatherproof with the ground sheet sewn in, so a little one man pop up tent would be ideal. Use a bucket grill with a handle so you can carry the thing and set it on a patio slab or bricks in the tent to prevent scorching. Like I said above, people seem overly concerned about the headache and nausea but this is no different from SN, so the same prep for SN should be used, lots of anti-emmetics and painkillers, then lie down and go to sleep.

I am to clumsy for burning these things timing it, I will probably trip over something and fall with my head into the charcoal lol.

 

[Forveleth]

You have to have a car or an air-tight tent. Also somewhere to park either of those that no one will notice. For instance, I do not have a car and live in the middle of a city. I can not exactly set up a tent on the sidewalk and not draw suspicion.

 

[Eudaimonic]

Easy to mess up, need a lot of equipment and the right space to do it, many factors that can influence chances of success (everything from the source of the CO to the materials of the space/enclosure), and risk of damage from a failed attempt is very serious not only because of hypoxia but because of the delayed immune response (CO poisoning alters myelin basic protein) and the time it takes for CO to be purged from the body with treatment

 

[slowdance]

I was thinking of just booking a normal spot at a normal campsite. Do you think a stranger will come bother me?

 

[theshund]

Thank you. I think this is the way for me. Much easier than finding DMC. I think folks may be hesitant because of the risk of brain damage from failing

A SS member did it successfully and their ctb was documented by local press in the UK but I can't find the thread. It's a sadly poignant gold mine of information on how not to do it then how to do it as they documented their entire effort before finally getting it right.

If anyone knows the thread I'm talking about can you link to it please.

Edit: found it. The Zanexx thread https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/leaving-tonight.3163/

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

I live in an urban city with my parents, so it would be difficult to impossible to not get discovered. It's easier for me to order a couple of things online for SN to CTB at a hotel where I won't be found.

 

[theshund]

Based on the thread linked above the things you'll need plus outlay:

A campsite: here in the UK it's about £20 per night. Id rent space for a week and make the attempt early. That way if you fail you have plenty of time to try again.

A weatherproof 1 or 2 man pop up tent. The Regatta Malawi 2 waterproof festival tent is around £45. Zanexx used it successfully. I suggest positioning the tent as far from other campers as possible, preferably in a corner of the field with the door facing a hedge or something so nobody sees you taking the grill inside.

Waterproof canvas sealing tape: tape up all vents and seams on the inside so you aren't seen. It's about £10 a roll.

A chimney starter. They range in price from £10 to £60 depending on size and brand (sorry Americans but I don't know the Forex rate). Weber do a big one but the £10 version should be fine

About 4 to 6kg charcoal briquettes. This might be too much. Basically you fill the chimney starter to the brim. About £10

A barbecue bucket grill. When the top bricks start to turn grey in the chimney starter turn them all out into the bucket. Get one with a handle. About £10.

Lighter cubes to start the charcoal in the chimney. About £10 a pack.

A patio paving slab or bricks. Put them in the tent then the grill on them. Might be worth using both, slab as a base, bricks to hold the bucket and stop it tipping over. Zanexx used a fire resistant blanket but I'd sooner have the bucket sit on a firm base.

You'll also need a torch or solar lamp, a bedroll and a sleeping bag.

Anti emmetics and painkillers.

Method:

As per the SN method, take 2 anti emmetics every 3 hours on the ctb day up to three doses then painkillers (ibuprofen + paracetamol) an hour before ctb.

When you take the third dose, light up the chimney starter, wait until top briquettes turn ashy grey then tip into bucket grill. Use as many briquettes as you can fit in the chimney starter. Opinions vary on which brand of charcoal is best.

Leave bucket to flame/smoke and burn down for 2 hours. Set a timer. Take painkillers then leave bucket for another hour. Set a timer. Might be worth grilling some sausages for appearance sake. Campers keep to themselves usually but you never know.

Make sure it's dark when the timer ends. If there's still smoke, wait until there isn't. There shouldn't be after 3 hours and the charcoal should be reduced to grey ash but still hot.

Enter tent with bucket CAREFULLY and discreetly.

Set bucket in place. Zip up tent. Get into sleeping bag and try to sleep.

Optional: drink a small amount of alcohol or take sedatives or sleeping pills to aid sleep before you enter the tent but not too long before as you want your wits about you when handling the bucket. You want a peaceful, painless ctb not burning yourself or the tent! A solar lantern is invaluable. Doing this in the pitch dark is a recipe for disaster.

The CO won't affect any tents nearby as it dissipates in air.

Don't self sabotage by making friends on the campsite or giving anyone cause for concern.

This is my plan fwiw. All in the cost including pitch fees is around £300.

 

[Eudaimonic]

No, just less peaceful. You can get anti emmetics online very easily. Make sure it's the dopamine inhibitor kind. I think that's right. Check the SN megathread. It's the recommended one.

You don't need a dopamine antagonist. An AE like ondansetron that blocks the 5-HT3 receptor should be fine. The benefit in this case is not speeding gastric emptying but reducing nausea/vomiting.

Be very careful with this method. If you decide to back out, even if you haven't been in the tent/car for that long, you may sustain serious multi-organ damage that worsens over time.

This may be a reason to prefer entering the tent/car after levels have built up, BUT it's advised to buy a meter and perform tests first. I would use a tent with a double flap for this reason, personally.

Note that there are other ways to generate CO besides charcoal, some of which may be more reliable.

 

[theshund]

You don't need a dopamine antagonist. An AE like ondansetron that blocks the 5-HT3 receptor should be fine. The benefit in this case is not speeding gastric emptying but reducing nausea/vomiting.

Be very careful with this method. If you decide to back out, even if you haven't been in the tent/car for that long, you may sustain serious multi-organ damage that worsens over time.

This. CO is not a cry for help method. If you fail you will need to go again with adjustments the next night as you've probably already damaged yourself irreversibly. I'm pretty confident the described equipment and techniques are demonstrably sound but do your own research and read the linked thread in full. You can't back out once you're in so make sure you're all in or not at all.

When I go I will document the procedure with photos for information. I need to wait until spring though. Barbecues and camping in February are bad idea.

You don't need a dopamine antagonist. An AE like ondansetron that blocks the 5-HT3 receptor should be fine. The benefit in this case is not speeding gastric emptying but reducing nausea/vomiting.

Be very careful with this method. If you decide to back out, even if you haven't been in the tent/car for that long, you may sustain serious multi-organ damage that worsens over time.

This may be a reason to prefer entering the tent/car after levels have built up, BUT it's advised to buy a meter and perform tests first. I would use a tent with a double flap for this reason, personally.

Note that there are other ways to generate CO besides charcoal, some of which may be more reliable.

Yes the airlock method. But I think with the medication it doesn't matter so much and it's not certain what the effects of sudden exposure rather than gradual are. Most accidental CO deaths the victims passed in their sleep after incrementally rising levels of exposure. There may be more violent reactions to short term exposure and high levels like dizziness, disorientation and physical pain.

There are logistical problems with a meter, like seeing the levels while outside the tent and even with an air lock there will be a diluting effect when air enters. The cost sky rockets too. A CO meter will double the outlay. Im confident, based on Zanexx's thread that the physics are sound enough to trust the process assuming all listed precautions are taken

 

[Eudaimonic]

Yes the airlock method. But I think with the medication it doesn't matter so much and it's not certain what the effects of sudden exposure rather than gradual are. Most accidental CO deaths the victims passed in their sleep after incrementally rising levels of exposure. There may be more violent reactions to short term exposure and high levels like dizziness, disorientation and physical pain.

The idea is to wait until it is >10K PPM so that you pass out almost immediately upon entering. Why not make it peaceful if you can? It's not like the risk of failing is that much higher if at all

There are logistical problems with a meter, like seeing the levels while outside the tent and even with an air lock there will be a diluting effect when air enters. The cost sky rockets too. A CO meter will double the outlay. Im confident, based on Zanexx's thread that the physics are sound enough to trust the process assuming all listed precautions are taken

I don't see any logistical problems with it, really. Just set up a feed so that you can see the readings. I wouldn't do it without the meter, personally, but it's your choice ofc.

 

[vitbar]

Used to be more popular when you could put a pipe from a car's exhaused in through a window. Modern cars are different and it doesn't work.

 

[theshund]

The idea is to wait until it is >10K PPM so that you pass out almost immediately upon entering. Why not make it peaceful if you can? It's not like the risk of failing is that much higher if at all

I don't see any logistical problems with it, really. Just set up a feed so that you can see the readings. I wouldn't do it without the meter, personally, but it's your choice ofc.

A meter that goes above 10k PPM is extremely expensive. They also have audio alarms which would be a disaster in a quiet campsite

 

[kitchenwindow197]

A well sealed pop up tent or car + a barbecue grill bucket and 6kg charcoal. It's all readily available without busting out a sweat to source hard to find substances so why is carbon monoxide poisoning not the top method?

I read an article that showed that 100% of people that failed a suicide attempt with carbon monoxide described it as being worse than being slowly killed, it also says that the majority of people say it feels similar to being tortured to death. I would personally not choose this method. Ive also read reports of people waking up 5 or 6 hours after trying to kill themselves with charcoal with raging headaches, nausea, throbbing throats ect. I think there are better ways to go.

This is a quote of somebody's post from here:



Until recently, I had no doubts that CO poisoning if done correctly is a peaceful, painless method with high chance of success, however I found some resources, which make me question it. In particular this website seems to provide information on that issue:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090212121445/http://www.geocities.com/monoxidemachine/
To quote

After observing several dozen CMA victims in autopsy, I can tell you that the body left behind is useless for organ donation, discolored to the point where extreme make-up is required to prepare it for any burial viewing, and is treated as a toxic waste product by professionals. None of the CMA bodies I saw had that "classic" peaceful facial appearance, similar to being asleep. Rather, some had their eyes open wide, while others had a horrific grimace, swollen tongues protruding out from stretched lips and most had suffered some degree of nasal haemorrhaging. All but a few had vomitus spray on their clothing and most had experienced trauma related bowel release syndrome, (T.B.R.S. also called 'timber syndrome' by industry professionals).

Further more

All the survivors expressed pain and sickness during their CMA suicide attempts. The statistics are exactly even regarding mental and emotional pain, but 100% described the experience as worse than being slowly killed. The majority described the events as being similar to being tortured to death, but the CMA symptoms hampered their ability to stop the events once they found themselves in the agony state of CM poisoning.

A full 25% stated that they had decided to abort the attempt when the physical anguish became unbearable, but had lost the mental capacity or resolve to abort. Of all the survivors interviewed, 82% stated loss of bladder control and 34% of those expressed intense shame at having wet themselves while still mentally able to realize the situation was going to be agonizing and now messy.

I'm very aware, that this is just some random blog from 2009 mirrored on the Internet Archive, quoting some nameless, supposed specialist, but since I want to be really sure, I want to know if the experiences of the people here, who survived CO poisoning were anything like this.

Other resources like the PPH by Nietschke (who the above article is a critique of) say it's peaceful.

If the inhaled concentration of CO in the inhaled air is high enough, a rapid peaceful death will result.

The ASH Wiki is rather nuanced (which I don't know if it's a good or bad thing) and claim it's neither peaceful nor absolute agony and states the potential discomfort, one might experience.
Link: https://web.archive.org/web/2014061...w_does_carbon_monoxide_work_as_a_lethal_agent

Carbon monoxide (CO) enters the bloodstream through the lungs and attaches to hemoglobin (Hb), the body's oxygen carrier, forming carboxyhemoglobin (COHb) and thereby reducing oxygen (O2) delivery to the body's organs and tissues. High COHb concentrations are poisonous. Central nervous system (CNS) effects in individuals suffering acute CO poisoning cover a wide range, depending on severity of exposure: headache, dizziness, weakness, nausea, vomiting, disorientation, confusion, collapse, coma and death.

 

[theshund]

I read an article that showed that 100% of people that failed a suicide attempt with carbon monoxide described it as being worse than being slowly killed, it also says that the majority of people say it feels similar to being tortured to death. I would personally not choose this method. Ive also read reports of people waking up 5 or 6 hours after trying to kill themselves with charcoal with raging headaches, nausea, throbbing throats ect. I think there are better ways to go.

This is a quote of somebody's post from here:



Until recently, I had no doubts that CO poisoning if done correctly is a peaceful, painless method with high chance of success, however I found some resources, which make me question it. In particular this website seems to provide information on that issue:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090212121445/http://www.geocities.com/monoxidemachine/
To quote


Further more


I'm very aware, that this is just some random blog from 2009 mirrored on the Internet Archive, quoting some nameless, supposed specialist, but since I want to be really sure, I want to know if the experiences of the people here, who survived CO poisoning were anything like this.

Other resources like the PPH by Nietschke (who the above article is a critique of) say it's peaceful.


The ASH Wiki is rather nuanced (which I don't know if it's a good or bad thing) and claim it's neither peaceful nor absolute agony and states the potential discomfort, one might experience.
Link: https://web.archive.org/web/2014061...w_does_carbon_monoxide_work_as_a_lethal_agent

It's important to differentiate between CO poisoning from, say, barbecue charcoal and the car exhaust method which a lot of articles mix up and which some people on this thread have also mixed up.

A car exhaust fumes contains more than just CO and those additional gases and contaminants will have a disastrous effect on the lungs and body. I'm not saying you are making that mistake, just stating a fact and it's unclear on that first link whether the focus is on pure CO or exhaust fume methods.

The majority of accidental CO deaths happen when victims are asleep. When they are awake, nausea, dizziness and headaches alert victims that something is wrong before they can fall unconscious. The majority of cases documented that I've read suggest the victim feels very lethargic, sleepy and nauseas but not in agonizing pain. Most survival accounts I've read, the victim collapsed and passed out then woke up in the ambulance or hospital after outside intervention. Again, fairly consistent from case to case and no indication of extreme discomfort.

Beyond testimonials we should consider the methodology and comparisons with, say, inert gas inhalation or SN. In all cases hypoxia is the cause of death and provided there is no respiratory reaction caused by the body's response to carbon dioxide build up (as in asphyxiation) there shouldn't be any discomfort beyond headaches and dizziness prior to passing out The CO essentially plays the same role as an inert gas by being breathable without providing oxygen to the brain.

The levels of CO will also be causal. Low levels cause insidious damage over time which will affect organs, immuno responses and cognition - essentially brain damage and deoxygenation of the rest of the body. There is nothing within carbon monoxide which causes damage directly. All damage is a result of severe hypoxia. As I stated above, this isn't true of exhaust fumes which contain damaging elements such as carbon dioxide, benzene and soot. Breathing these noxious elements will result in asphyxia symptoms which, combined with the paralyzing effects of hypoxia, will be extremely distressing. The difference if you like between being throttled to death and dying peacefully in your sleep.

If this method is used it should be pure CO such as that given off by charcoal, not those given off by equipment which may also be discharging additional trace gases. Benzene for example causes burning sensations through the digestive tract, nausea, vomiting, pain, convulsions, swelling and acute skin redness.

The charcoal should be ash, not flaming or burning as any smoke will also carry particulate contaminants which may result in asphyxia symptoms. Death by smoke inhalation is not a peaceful process.

 

[Eudaimonic]

A meter that goes above 10k PPM is extremely expensive. They also have audio alarms which would be a disaster in a quiet campsite

There's probably a way to silence the alarm.

The symptoms from CO poisoning may cause you to back out, which is IMO it's best to enter the tent/car after levels have built up.

Btw, this suggests that it may be best to use grills instead of buckets. Take a look at the PDF attached.

IMO, it's worth considering an additional grill with time-delayed automatic ignition as well

All damage is a result of severe hypoxia.

No, it's actually primarily a result of the immune response to CO, not the severity of hypoxia, though that also plays a role.