Why is the government interested in making suicide harder and harder?

[creirwy]

Unfortunately suicide is not all about health...

Some people kill themselves for other problems that cannot solve, or that come directly from the government (think of debts, for example)...

True, it's not the root of the problem, but I think before someone kills themselves over being in debt, they come to a certain state of mind where they feel completely helpless, which could perhaps be averted by proper medical support.

 

[willitpass]

Because it's easier to throw a bandaid on it and say they are solving the suicide problem by getting rid of methods than it is to address the root causes of suicide. If they addressed mental health care accessibility, poverty, homelessness, drug addiction, and other highly prevalent issues that often lead to suicide then they would see suicide and mental illness rates drop. But that takes a lot more time, effort, money, and commitment than slapping the suicide hotline on billboards and making methods harder to obtain. The latter option is cheaper and allows the government to claim they are working on the mental health crisis without having to put any true effort into any of it.

 

[lololol]

Dead men pay no taxes

haha
In order to know economical impacts after accessibility of peaceful suicide methods for the governments, I think we should know how many people would consider choosing such path if available. Maybe there are articles consisting such statistics for that. That would be very interesting to read such articles. Terminally ill people just by theirselves may be enough for 1%. And for people with non terminal conditions who knows what percentage their contribution would be. Euthanasia would bankrupt many pharma industries because pharma industries need terminally and non terminally ill people.

 

[ihateearth]

They are making it more difficult to kill yourself every day. In the U.S. they are about to pass a law banning SN in all of America.. It's pure evil for many reasons . People suffering will jump off buildings , cut themselves with knives, jump in front of trucks or trains and other brutal painful risky methods. There is less risk of permanent damage from SN than other suicide methods to escape this prison hell. So they will cause all the permanent injuries everyone will suffer maimed by a suicide method . They won't have SN in the USA soon . It's evil beyond words to take away someone's escape from extreme Torture.

House Passes Trahan’s Youth Poisoning Protection Act

trahan.house.gov

Oh my God. They're really banning the sale of SN. I need to get some ASAP.

Get some before they ban it. Jesus Christ.

 

[Valhala]

Simple: only a living slave is a good and systemically useful slave, a dead slave is of no use.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Because the government doesn't care about us. Anybody who thinks otherwise is naive. At the end of the day, the government only want us for profit. To the elites, life is all about profit which is why they flip when they see the birth rate decreasing. The government doesn't care about your quality of life or you being happy as, to them, you are expendable. They want as many slaves as possible which is why they try their best to keep people alive by restricting suicide methods such as SN

 

[Davey40210]

And you didn't attempt to answer the question because you can't. Thinking they're trying to protect tax revenue is incredibly silly.

Don't tell him he is silly. You may not agree with his opinion but at least he is telling us about it, and not being rude to others.
I think its mostly to do with the way politics work. Think about it, if you know anyone who committed suicide (and over the average lifespan of voters and considering increases in suicide numbers, this is probably quite a few people), and you feel sad about that, then would you vote for the politician that says they will prevent it or for the politician that will make it easier?

I personally think its very cruel to deny people the right to end their life. If they are overcoming SI, fear of dying, fear of CTB due to religion, the stigma on CTB, etc, that means their life is pretty bad. Forcing them to stay around is just horrible.

I rather see society making it easy to CTB and then taking reduction of CTBs as a KPI rather than something ridiculous like GNP growth.

 

[Alexandra0]

Because many people do not feel pity for their neighbor

 

[painofzed]

Because the government needs you for a labor force.

Do people here really believe that enough people would commit suicide to make that big of a difference in the amount of tax paying workers? Such a huge difference that that's the main reason the government won't give you a nembutal IV?

Not at first, but once so many wage slaves start watching their friends, neighbors, and families just peace out. Sure, then they are going to have a BIG problem. Taking N and going away is very much more preferable than working 3 mcjobs to make other people rich the rest of your life.

 

[avalonisburning]

You can't sell anything to a dead person.

 

[Unspoken7612]

The baseless, reflexive cynicism I'm seeing here says a lot about the negative impact of depression upon cognitive processing abilities.

No, the government isn't trying to stop you killing yourself so that they get more tax revenue. That obviously makes no sense, especially when talking about the terminally ill, who are a huge financial drain, or the seriously mentally ill (e.g. those requiring hospitalisation for their own safety).

The truth is that politicians are people. Most people think that preventable death is bad - it's a deeply-wired human instinct, and one that you have to some extent if you are still alive. They believe that most suicides are impulsive or the result of temporary conditions, and preventing them is therefore good. While most people now tend to support assisted dying for the terminally ill, and some governments are catching up, others are concerned that legalising some assisted dying will lead to people who want to stay alive being pressured into dying.

When these people weigh your right to die against Gladys' right to be protected against being pressured into dying by her nephew with his eye on her estate, or Little Johnny's impulse to shoot himself in the head, they come down on the side of Gladys and Johnny. They don't think that they need to keep you alive because you're useful to them.

 

[sserafim]

Don't tell him he is silly. You may not agree with his opinion but at least he is telling us about it, and not being rude to others.
I think its mostly to do with the way politics work. Think about it, if you know anyone who committed suicide (and over the average lifespan of voters and considering increases in suicide numbers, this is probably quite a few people), and you feel sad about that, then would you vote for the politician that says they will prevent it or for the politician that will make it easier?

I personally think its very cruel to deny people the right to end their life. If they are overcoming SI, fear of dying, fear of CTB due to religion, the stigma on CTB, etc, that means their life is pretty bad. Forcing them to stay around is just horrible.

I rather see society making it easy to CTB and then taking reduction of CTBs as a KPI rather than something ridiculous like GNP growth.

I am a her but thank you for your reply. Again, I will post this infographic which I saw on this website. If there were no economic cost to suicide, then it wouldn't be so stigmatized. This is the real reason why suicides are prevented. It's the bottom line. Everything in this world is about money and profit.


I will also link a comment that I saw recently

It's because life is not made for the individual. The individual belongs to the collective, is nothing but a resource, a slave. This is why suicide is prohibited - the collective would suffer, obviously.

This is true. Society feels like it owns you and it thinks that you have a debt to pay back to it, even though we were all born without our consent and never agreed to participating in society. It is something which we were all forced into. Most people feel like they owe society something, yet they believe that society/the world doesn't owe them anything, which I find strange. It must be because they have all been oversocialized by society

 

[ihateearth]

The baseless, reflexive cynicism I'm seeing here says a lot about the negative impact of depression upon cognitive processing abilities.

No, the government isn't trying to stop you killing yourself so that they get more tax revenue. That obviously makes no sense, especially when talking about the terminally ill, who are a huge financial drain, or the seriously mentally ill (e.g. those requiring hospitalisation for their own safety).

The truth is that politicians are people. Most people think that preventable death is bad - it's a deeply-wired human instinct, and one that you have to some extent if you are still alive. They believe that most suicides are impulsive or the result of temporary conditions, and preventing them is therefore good. While most people now tend to support assisted dying for the terminally ill, and some governments are catching up, others are concerned that legalising some assisted dying will lead to people who want to stay alive being pressured into dying.

When these people weigh your right to die against Gladys' right to be protected against being pressured into dying by her nephew with his eye on her estate, or Little Johnny's impulse to shoot himself in the head, they come down on the side of Gladys and Johnny. They don't think that they need to keep you alive because you're useful to them.

"others are concerned that legalising some assisted dying will lead to people who want to stay alive being pressured into dying."

That's nonsense. How can someone who wants to live be pressured into assisted dying? There's counseling, paperwork, and requirements for that. You made that up. Death is a personal choice. Leave these people alone.

Politicians don't own their bodies and minds. Suicide has been around forever. If it's not one method it's another. You and these politicians are not sovereign over another's body and right to choose their future. If someone wants to die and end their reality, they are right to do as they please. We have free will. Some have tried multiple times and therapy didn't help.

Let people end and be at peace.

If someone has an SN source, please DM me. I'm also searching in various ways.

 

[Ironborn]

I am a her but thank you for your reply. Again, I will post this infographic which I saw on this website. If there were no economic cost to suicide, then it wouldn't be so stigmatized. This is the real reason why suicides are prevented. It's the bottom line. Everything in this world is about money and profit.

View attachment 150468
I will also link a comment that I saw recently

This is true. Society feels like it owns you and it thinks that you have a debt to pay back to it, even though we were all born without our consent and never agreed to participating in society. Most people feel like they owe society something, yet they believe that the world doesn't owe them anything, which I find strange. It must be because they have all been oversocialized by society

I hate how everything is measured by the metric of how much money it adds to or detracts from the economy.
GDP seems to be the end all and be all of the modern day, "number must go up".
Infinite growth is just unsustainable, but it is the alter that everything else must be sacrificed upon.
The entire system just needs to be torn down at this point because there is no hope in hell you can reform or fix this system.

 

[sserafim]

I hate how everything is measured by the metric of how much money it adds to or detracts from the economy.
GDP seems to be the end all and be all of the modern day, "number must go up".
Infinite growth is just unsustainable, but it is the alter that everything else must be sacrificed upon.
The entire system just needs to be torn down at this point because there is no hope in hell you can reform or fix this system.

I agree and the most damning thing is that the system doesn't even care about you as an individual, only what you can contribute and produce, so I don't understand why people are bending over backwards to contribute to society or feel like they have an obligation to contribute at all. The system does not care about whether you're suffering or not, it just wants you to work and consume. Even if you don't work, you still consume and they make money off of you. Why care about a system that doesn't care about you? It must be because people are oversocialized, like I mentioned before. If a wagie died, he would be replaced the next day. People are just human capital and resources in the eyes of capitalism

The system cannot be reformed or fixed because it works too well. It keeps the masses just content enough to not rebel. Slavoj Zizek mentioned this as well, and apparently capitalism is the system which works the best. There are no viable alternatives

 

[MentalFuneral]

Banning and restricting access to suicide is probably the easiest course of action. Its far too much work to attack the root of the problem and they dont give enough of a fuck enough to do so either. Way easier to slap a suicide hotline on some billboards and call it a day, and let the rest fall into alcoholism and despair

Also most people haven't experienced suicidal ideation themselves, and are therefore unable to comprehend it and empathize with you. I've realized that a majority of people are unwilling to understand people who deviate from them. People who have genuine compassion and sympathy are a rarity. Its probably not some conspiracy like some people here think. Just look at how homeless people are treated. Sometimes the truth is far dumber than you could ever dream

 

[Ironborn]

I agree and the most damning thing is that the system doesn't even care about you as an individual, only what you can contribute and produce, so I don't understand why people are bending over backwards to contribute to society or feel like they have an obligation to contribute at all. The system does not care about whether you're suffering or not, it just wants you to work and consume. Even if you don't work, you still consume and they make money off of you. Why care about a system that doesn't care about you? It must be because people are oversocialized, like I mentioned before

The system cannot be reformed or fixed because it works too well. It keeps the masses just content enough to not rebel. Slavoj Zizek mentioned this as well, and apparently capitalism is the system which works the best. There are no viable alternatives

I worked full time almost twenty years, when I stumbled once the entire system came down on me to get it's pound of flesh despite carving some nice big pieces out my entire life.

It's like this, you buy a car, which is taxed, you have to insure it and pay a road tax to be allowed to drive it, you then fill it with fuel which is taxed so you can go to your job where your wage is taxed so they can then slap tax on any purchase that isn't considered a necessity, which is a very small list.

Only way to beat this game is not to play.

 

[Davey40210]

I am a her but thank you for your reply. Again, I will post this infographic which I saw on this website. If there were no economic cost to suicide, then it wouldn't be so stigmatized. This is the real reason why suicides are prevented. It's the bottom line. Everything in this world is about money and profit.

View attachment 150468
I will also link a comment that I saw recently

This is true. Society feels like it owns you and it thinks that you have a debt to pay back to it, even though we were all born without our consent and never agreed to participating in society. It is something which we were all forced into. Most people feel like they owe society something, yet they believe that society/the world doesn't owe them anything, which I find strange. It must be because they have all been oversocialized by society

Sorry, didn't think to check your gender before, I apologize.

I still have a hard time believing that this is the reason though. I think government or businesses don't think things through in that level of detail and logic. Though I completely subscribe to the opinion that everything these days is about money.

I also think this graph doesn't represent the actual cost of suicide but the sunk cost. I.e. it's the investment of X years of education etc that supposedly went into the person that died. That is also why the cost in the graph goes down with age. That means that if someone doesn't contribute (by moving abroad, being unemployed, etc) or even destroys value (due to illness, crime, etc) after all that investment went into them, then the cost will be much greater than the cost of that person committing suicide.

But you may be right.

 

[justpathetic]

The baseless, reflexive cynicism I'm seeing here says a lot about the negative impact of depression upon cognitive processing abilities.

No, the government isn't trying to stop you killing yourself so that they get more tax revenue. That obviously makes no sense, especially when talking about the terminally ill, who are a huge financial drain, or the seriously mentally ill (e.g. those requiring hospitalisation for their own safety).

The truth is that politicians are people. Most people think that preventable death is bad - it's a deeply-wired human instinct, and one that you have to some extent if you are still alive. They believe that most suicides are impulsive or the result of temporary conditions, and preventing them is therefore good. While most people now tend to support assisted dying for the terminally ill, and some governments are catching up, others are concerned that legalising some assisted dying will lead to people who want to stay alive being pressured into dying.

When these people weigh your right to die against Gladys' right to be protected against being pressured into dying by her nephew with his eye on her estate, or Little Johnny's impulse to shoot himself in the head, they come down on the side of Gladys and Johnny. They don't think that they need to keep you alive because you're useful to them.

Exactly yes money may have a part in it but I truly believe it's mostly there brainwashed deluded belief everyone can be "cured" and have a barbie life if they try hard enough.

 

[seppuku404]

I still remember an episode I think it's from futurama, where they have suicide cabins in the middle of the street, I always dreamt of that coming true since I was a kid. Like an assisted successful and painless way to depart.
Anyway it's both in the government's and big farma's best interests that instead of killing yourself you just consume anti-depressants and keep on working and doing shit like a zombie.

 

[Jarni]

In any case it is always necessary to add also the layer "popular or not the idea for the election/re-election" to any reflection.

 

[Himeasa]

I don't think that taxation is a significant impetus behind anti-mortalist government policies. Most secular governments are in all likelihood agnostic on suicide: Canada has instituted MAID and the UK seems to soon be imitating that measure: those who are suicidal (or would resort to assisted suicide) are also those who are frequently dysfunctional and provide no productive benefit to society, even if MAID is nominally limited to the terminally ill.

Sure, anybody may become suicidal, including highly productive members of society, but the general tendency is, I suspect, to the contrary.

It's rather that a majority of the population personally and morally abhors suicide, which extends into both policy demand and electoral pressure as well as the people in government sharing those views. Politicians or bureaucrats aren't all Machiavellian scrooges: they're often people from the common folk and think like people from the common folk.

Additionally, there's religious influence not just in de jure religious countries, but also de facto in those which are secular. Especially so via conservative parties: conservatives in Germany and Austria have previously intensely rejected motions to institute assisted suicide, whereas social democrats and liberals have been much more lenient since they aren't as religiously biased.

Simply put, I believe there isn't a discernible conspiracy amongst government officials to bar suicide. Anti-mortalist policies are a reflection of popular anti-mortalist sentiment. There is sects amongst wealthy elites and some bureaucrats such as the Long-Termists (which include Elon Musk) who do facilitate policies, but this is still limited in reach.

 

[Plato'sCaveDweller]

Oh my God. They're really banning the sale of SN. I need to get some ASAP.

Get some before they ban it. Jesus Christ.

indeed. i feel like i got mine just in the nick of time. it passed the house back in May, but i'm not sure how long it takes bills to eventually move on to the senate and then the president. but it's been 4 months so it probably won't be law for another couple months i'm betting. maybe Biden will sign it into law just before he dips out.

 

[Unspoken7612]

That's nonsense. How can someone who wants to live be pressured into assisted dying? There's counseling, paperwork, and requirements for that. You made that up. Death is a personal choice. Leave these people alone.

Politicians don't own their bodies and minds. Suicide has been around forever. If it's not one method it's another. You and these politicians are not sovereign over another's body and right to choose their future. If someone wants to die and end their reality, they are right to do as they please. We have free will. Some have tried multiple times and therapy didn't help.

What a bizarre post.

Firstly, it should be obvious to anyone that I don't think assisted suicide should be illegal.

Secondly, if you think I have "made up" that some people worry that vulnerable people would be pressured into killing themselves, then it shows you have no familiarity with this discussion at all, which explains why you think the arguments against legalising assisted dying are financial.

If you had done a shred of research then you'd know what your opponents actually think. You'd be better informed, more intelligent, and probably have a more balanced view of the world.

Again, saying the following not because I agree with them, but merely because it is a common and influential viewpoint that any intelligent person interested in this issue should familiarise themselves with:

Care Not Killing: https://www.carenotkilling.org.uk/about/faqs/ - this is a biased article, but is still worth reading to know what the opponents of assisted suicide think.

"We're told we are a burden. No wonder disabled people fear assisted suicide": https://www.theguardian.com/comment...led-people-assisted-dying-safeguards-pressure - again, a one-sided argument, but it shows the argument exists, and is a fairly common one if the poll cited is anything to go by (and see also: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68951037)

Then we have some attempts to be balanced and list as many arguments as possible:

The BBC summarises arguments for and against euthanasia (intended for A Level students studying ethics aged 17-18): https://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/euthanasia/against/against_1.shtml

The British Medical Association presents the arguments against and for physician-assisted dying: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/4394/bma-arguments-for-and-against-pad-aug-2021.pdf

Again, you don't have to agree with everything said here - I don't! But it's plainly wrong to think the argument is financial, or solely because the suicidal have instrumental value.

 

[ihateearth]

indeed. i feel like i got mine just in the nick of time. it passed the house back in May, but i'm not sure how long it takes bills to eventually move on to the senate and then the president. but it's been 4 months so it probably won't be law for another couple months i'm betting. maybe Biden will sign it into law just before he dips out.

Can you please DM me? I've tried different things to make life better but it doesn't get better year after year and I'm tired of being tired. I've tried multiple ways. Thanks if you do