Help Why is it worth it to wait until the age of 25? What does fully maturing actually mean?

[26mmmm]

Im currently 18 years old and barely have any hope left.
I saw some people suggest to wait with suicide until the age of 25 when the brain fully matures.
What does that actually mean tho? What changes?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

If you have no hope left and there's nothing gonna change in your life then what should change until 25? If your MH issues / suicidal ideation is a result of external influences then those must change to have a chance for recovery, regardless of your age.

Can you change sth in your life? Would you have support? Can you get the support you need?

 

[UsagiDrop]

Apparently your brain is done developing but that's largely a myth. It really stops development between the ages of twenty five to thirty iirc. Regardless, as someone past that age, a lot tends to change between those ages but it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be better. Also a lot of MH issues start to rear their ugly heads or peak in our twenties. But if we're in positions to get a hold on it then sometimes things can be manageable.

I think a lot of people say this because they assume you'll just "grow out" of your issues, or that you'll mature and your life will be totally different by that magical age. And that can sometimes be true! I'm living a completely different life than I was when I was eighteen. None of us want to hear it in our teens, but as we grow older, a lot of those problems (which are problems, to be clear here; I'm not trying to be dismissive of any younger person's suffering) either solve themselves or seem much smaller. Personally that's been true for me but adulthood has brought out a bunch of other issues I dislike and find to not be worth it.

If your MH issues / suicidal ideation is a result of external influences then those must change to have a chance for recovery, regardless of your age.

But "getting better" really only happens when you do this. People will suggest you wait it out just to see if you'll feel better when your environment changes, too.

If you feel bad because of school, parents, lack of independence, not really knowing yourself, not having enthusiasm for the future, not looking forward to college or working, etc then a lot of those problems may change if you wait it out. But they also may not. And they could also get bigger. At the end of the day only you can know if there's a chance for things to be different.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

Forget all the other stuff. For me I would say that waiting until 25 is good because at least in terms of aging and health, 18-25 are still good years. I guess that only makes sense if you consider getting older and lower quality of life in your decision to ctb. So I think at least someone can try to experience those years on the off-chance that things might get better. I can understand that it won't feel that way when you're 18 though, probably only in hindsight when you've lived them.

 

[Deleted member 8119]

I don't encourage anyone to die and none of this should convince you to do it. No one here should have control over your choice.

If you want my opinion, the age barrier is dumb and a way to restrict the right to die based on pure subjectivity. It's a way to buy time. First is underage people, but banning them it's required by law, so that's not anyone's fault. The problem is anything after that. It doesn't matter how much you are suffering now, apparently, if your brain isn't mature yet you aren't really understand it until you are 21, so either it doesn't count or you aren't really suffering, according to this people.

Except, not really, because then people claim it isn't enough until 25. And then, again until 30. And yet again, people say your brain in 40s are totally different. It's just absurd, arbitrary and a way to think you are better than someone you want to hold power over.

The brain changes during literally all your life. On the extreme, there would be no right do die, because there would always be something new to learn about life. It's just seeing how far you can go before you can't defend it anymore.

A quick edit. I'm not claiming there aren't brain differences between ages, of course there are. I'm just saying I don't agree with restricting this based on who is "mature enough to stop suffering".

 

[26mmmm]

I don't encourage anyone to die and none of this should convince you to do it. No one here should have control over your choice.

If you want my opinion, the age barrier is dumb and a way to restrict the right to die based on pure subjectivity. It's a way to buy time. First is underage people, but banning them it's required by law, so that's OK. The problem is anything after that. It doesn't matter how much you are suffering now, apparently, if your brain isn't mature yet you aren't really understand it until you are 21, so either it doesn't count or you aren't really suffering, according to this people.

Except, not really, because then people claim it isn't enough until 25. And then, again until 30. And yet again, people say your brain in 40s are totally different. It's just absurd, arbitrary and a way to think you are better than someone you want to hold power over.

The brain changes during literally all your life. On the extreme, there would be no right do die, because there would always be something new to learn about life. It's just seeing how far you can go before you can't defend it anymore.

I do agree with the difference between teenage years and adulthood tho

 

[Deleted member 8119]

I do agree with the difference between teenage years and adulthood tho

You say you are 18, therefore a teen. If you think you aren't ready, by all means, wait what you consider necessary. It's true things could change, it just needs a ton of endurance and patience (and luck).

 

[slightoverlooked]

I postponed ctb till im 25 bc I noticed that sometimes things do get better because in that age range a lot can change. If I compare myself to when I was 18...I was so much more miserable, surrounded by the wrong people and bad friends. Especially humans who experience trauma tend to have the wrong people around them. I am still suicidal and I am not healed but recovery seems possible.
Life changes so much when you graduate high school. The world looks much more different and the life experience you make opens new paths. You meet new people, work a job, or go to college.
I also see it as a way to exhaust all your opportunities and resources to see if things might get better. When you are not a minor you can do stuff that might make you feel better about life...for instance, traveling, moving out, practicing hobbies, and more.

The brain thing is also true in my opinion. When I was 18 I wanted to kms when someone in my life abandoned me. I'm 21 now and I believe that it's stupid i was so anxiously attached to someone who wasn't even a good person.
When you grow older you might see some things differently.
Idk your situation but I hope things get better for you!

 

[26mmmm]

You say you are 18, therefore a teen. If you think you aren't ready, by all means, wait what you consider necessary. It's true things could change, it just needs a ton of endurance and patience (and luck).

Ignoring age tho, things could get better overtime for other reasons, so I'd say it's definitely worth the wait.

 

[Votrex]

In my case, I have changed drastically in the past couple years, I used to be an pathetic shy piece of garbage.
I couldn't look people in the eyes, I had an emotional breakdown every day, I couldn't talk to people: online and offline. (because of my childhood trauma)
I forced myself to change, it felt horrible at first but looking back, I'm glad I did.
I'm 22 years old now and am happy that I can talk to people without panicking.
I still have some hurdles to complete, my goal is to reach my objectives when I become 25.
It doesn't matter if I reach them yes or no, it will all depend on how I feel at that moment.
TL:DR, I still have some things left to do before I CTB.

 

[26mmmm]

In my case, I have changed drastically in the past couple years, I used to be an pathetic shy piece of garbage.
I couldn't look people in the eyes, I had an emotional breakdown every day, I couldn't talk to people: online and offline. (because of my childhood trauma)
I forced myself to change, it felt horrible at first but looking back, I'm glad I did.
I'm 22 years old now and am happy that I can talk to people without panicking.
I still have some hurdles to complete, my goal is to reach my objectives when I become 25.
It doesn't matter if I reach them yes or no, it will all depend on how I feel at that moment.
TL:DR, I still have some things left to do before I CTB.

I have also changed alot in the past couple of years, so I understand how time can help in some ways, just not waiting until a certain age specifically

 

[Dead Ghost]

The maturation of the brain does not matter, what matters is the emotional and social maturation of the person.
The differences between an adolescent and an adult are very important to the point that the concept you have of your relationship with the world changes completely.
To begin with you understand the difference between the life you lead, the life of others and the world in general (which does not have as much influence on you as it did when you were a child or teenager).
You have the freedom to make decisions and act as you see fit to free yourself from dependence on other people, as you are financially self-sufficient and completely autonomous in your day-to-day life.
You can take on responsibilities that involve taking care of other people or step up to more important jobs over time as you continue to mature.
You can form a family (perhaps the most important of all, since it is a pure survival instinct that you have your own social fabric, of your own blood, from which you receive support in the hardest moments - such as old age or illness).

Adolescence is horrible, but it is the most important learning stage of your entire life, because how you experience it and what you learn from it will shape the rest of your life (just like adolescence is strongly influenced by how your childhood was).

And of course, there are people who are doing quite well and others like me who are a disaster, at almost 46 years old, without a job and very poor ability to work, with almost no social fabric of my own (I only have my mother) and quite worn out by my mental disorders and physical problems.

But every time I think about my teenage years I get very angry, because I suffered so much from ridiculous problems that at today's age I wouldn't even consider problems and that undoubtedly contributed to my current situation.

The most important thing at 18 is that you can learn from the good and bad things that happen to you so that you can use this knowledge as pillars of the adult stage to have a life worth living.

//

La maduració del cervell no importa, el que importa es la maduració emocional i social de la persona.
Les diferéncies entre un adolescent y un adult són molt importants fins el punt que el concepte que tens de la teva relació amb el món canvía completament.
Per començar comprens la diferéncia entre la vida que portes, la vida dels altres i el món en general (el qual no te tanta influéncia en tú com quan eres un nen o un adolescent).
Tens llibertat per prendre decisions i actuar com consideris més adequat per a que et deslliuris de la dependéncia d'altres persones, ja que ets autosuficient económicament i completament autónom en el teu día a día.
Pots asumir responsabilitats que impliquin fer-te càrrec d'altres persones o optar a llocs de treball més importants amb el pas del temps segons segueixes madurant.
Pots formar una família (potser el més important de tot, ja que es pur instint de supervivéncia que tinguis un teixit social propi, de la teva própia sang, del qual rebis suport en les moments més durs -com la vellesa o enfermetats-).

L'adolescéncia és horrible, però és l'etapa d'aprenentatge més important de tota la teva vida, ja que a partir de com sigui la teva experiéncia i el que aprenguis d'aquesta condicionará la resta de la teva vida (al igual que l'adolescéncia está fortament influída per com ha estat la teva infància).

I es clar, hi ha persones a les quals els hi va força bé i d'altres com jo que és un desastre, amb gairebé 46 anys, sense feina i molt pobre capacitat de treball, sense gairebé teixit social propi (tinc només a la meva mare) i força desgastat pels meus trastorns mentals i problemes físics.

Però cada cop que penso en la meva adolescéncia tinc molta ràbia, perquè vaig patir massa per problemes ridículs que a l'edat actual ni tan sols consideraría problemes i que van contribuïr sense dubte a la meva situació actual.

El més important als 18 anys es que puguis aprendre de les coses bones i dolentes que et passen perqué puguis fer servir aquests coneixements com a pilars de l'etapa adulta per tenir una vida que valgui la pena viure.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Ignoring age tho, things could get better overtime for other reasons, so I'd say it's definitely worth the wait.

I'm most likely in a complete different situation than the majority here (which is in the age range of 21 +- 3 years with their own sorrows and problems about their future and I'm more than double this age) but things can change in the future and especially when some kind of "tranquility" comes into life that let things settle down.

I'm by far not safe or recovered (that's my personal opinion about myself) but my problems and situation that made me very suicidal last year settled somehow, they are not solved in any case but only my situation didn't become worse (no disturbing events happened so to say).

Depending on the personal situation even a base "recovery" is possible in any age - but it also depends on what's causing the MH issues and many other factors - what works for someone else must not work for you - it's truly complex.

 

[Forever Sleep]

In my case, my problems at that age were my home environment and, moving away from all that helped a bit. I guess it's maybe not so much about age but thinking about why you are suicidal. Will trying to live independently for example help? Will having a focus like a degree at uni, an apprenticeship, some time spent travelling help?

Really, at any age, I think it's about asking yourself questions: Why am I this unhappy? What do I want that might make me happier? How realistic is it that I'll get it? How much effort am I willing to put in to get it? I think those questions are relevant at any age.

I guess the whole thing when you're young is- more doors seem to be open. If I was your age, I'd likely go down the apprenticeship route. No one wants a 44 year old apprentice! Of course, it depends on all sorts though. Finances, what's available in your area, if anything does even appeal. That seems like a common problem with our younger members- nothing appeals. I think that's what you maybe need to address though- why you're feeling like this and, how likely it is you'll be able to change that.

 

[lita-lassi]

they say 25 because of neuroscience saying that, given decent parameters of development (emotional stability, healthy environment, no consistent drug use or abuse that dampens development etc), the human brain neuroplasticity starts settling into a fully formed "adult" in the neurological sense around that age. ofc it keeps changing as we age, its just a very unique neuron map at 25 than from that of a younger person still developing. i am not a neurologist and if i fucked up on any of that, my bad and im sorry, please correct because i domt want to fuck up any science branch representation. neurology is cool and good to research

 

[26mmmm]

In my case, my problems at that age were my home environment and, moving away from all that helped a bit. I guess it's maybe not so much about age but thinking about why you are suicidal. Will trying to live independently for example help? Will having a focus like a degree at uni, an apprenticeship, some time spent travelling help?

Really, at any age, I think it's about asking yourself questions: Why am I this unhappy? What do I want that might make me happier? How realistic is it that I'll get it? How much effort am I willing to put in to get it? I think those questions are relevant at any age.

I guess the whole thing when you're young is- more doors seem to be open. If I was your age, I'd likely go down the apprenticeship route. No one wants a 44 year old apprentice! Of course, it depends on all sorts though. Finances, what's available in your area, if anything does even appeal. That seems like a common problem with our younger members- nothing appeals. I think that's what you maybe need to address though- why you're feeling like this and, how likely it is you'll be able to change that.

My home environment is definitely awful. Its far from being my only issue but its definitely one of them.

I despise my family and are constantly reminded of bad periods in my life when going certain places.
But the thing is I don't really see myself moving out anytime soon.
Im 18 and I've never had a job, im scared of it I don't know how it works. Seems pretty overwhelming.
My education sucks so I wont be able to find good, stable jobs to rely on
, going to uni would barely leave me time to do anything else and it'll just leave me miserable without change for longer, and it'll be an awful experience. Even if I do manage to find a stable job and move out ill probably barely be able to get my basic needs covered.
So I don't see myself moving out anytime soon.
At the end of the day I don't want a fancy career or anything, I dont want a big house, I dont want to raise a family and I only want a middle class life so things should be easier , but given my other life circumstances it still seems impossible, I don't see myself moving out till the age of 30, and that's the best case scenario, and even then I'd probably only be able to move to some depressing shithole since prices in israel are pretty high from what I understand.
my only goals in life are to have a life - a few interests, to not be so physically unhealthy, unmanly, and unattractive, to be atleast slightly educated on important subjects like history, politics etc and to not have such an awful personality, having zero confidence of self esteem.
I'd also like to get into a relationship at some point and eventually settle down somewhere nice.
And my biggest goal after all that is to be somehow involved in the UK which I've spent my childhood in and dearly miss.

It sounds possible on paper, the first part atleast, but practically seems almost impossible, even tho im willing to invest so much time and effort. Probably mostly due to bad experiences and not logic but I dont know anymore

 

[Forever Sleep]

My home environment is definitely awful. Its far from being my only issue but its definitely one of them.

I despise my family and are constantly reminded of bad periods in my life when going certain places.
But the thing is I don't really see myself moving out anytime soon.
Im 18 and I've never had a job, im scared of it I don't know how it works. Seems pretty overwhelming.
My education sucks so I wont be able to find good, stable jobs to rely on
, going to uni would barely leave me time to do anything else and it'll just leave me miserable without change for longer, and it'll be an awful experience. Even if I do manage to find a stable job and move out ill probably barely be able to get my basic needs covered.
So I don't see myself moving out anytime soon.
At the end of the day I don't want a fancy career or anything, I dont want a big house, I dont want to raise a family and I only want a middle class life so things should be easier , but given my other life circumstances it still seems impossible, I don't see myself moving out till the age of 30, and that's the best case scenario.

Yes, I uderstand. Finances can be so crippling. All I would say is- you're predicting all these things will be awful without actually knowing. None of us really know how things will turn out in life till we try them. You may meet your future best friend, or lots of friends, or partner at uni or, in your job. Someone might introduce you to a sport or hobby that you really enjoy. You may really get in to what you are studying. You have no idea.

Of course, you could also be right. It could also be awful. Plus honestly, going in with the attitude that you'll hate whatever it is likely won't make you that open to allowing better things in.

You don't have to go for some high flying career though. It's almost better when our aspirations are lower sometimes- less chance to fail. A simple job to get by on sounds fine. But I agree- it's not easy. Especially with no clear drive on what you want. Jobs are scary to begin with. Anything new is scary to begin with. Ultimately, it has to be up to you as to whether you're willing to face all that. Will it be worth it? Maybe. Maybe not. No one knows till they try. Can I ask why it is you want to CTB now? Is it mainly fear of the future?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I dont see uni as bad, I'd love to have a good uni experience, but im just not fit for it right now.
Going to uni, spending another 3 - 4 years of my life being as miserable as I am, without being able to change much about myself at all, will makes things alot worse.
I'd be surrounded with other people who are just way further than me in life and it'd only make me envious.
Of course things could change, like you said, maybe my social anxiety would be slightly alleviated by being around more people, but that won't be targeting the root cause of my problems and even then my other issues remain which my social anxiety stems partially from.
I have awful self esteem, and honestly its mostly due to factual things. Alot of my issues are definitely in my head, but alot just come down to what my life actually is.
Working on the root cause of my problems will take alot of time and effort which I just wont be able to afford while at uni.





Its my past, my present and my future.

I've been having social anxiety and low self esteem since around the age of 12, isolation definitely made things worse and so eventually at around the age of 15 I had developed some pretty bad body dysmorphia and as a result depression and I began isolating more - I stopped showing up at school - which led me to lose all my friends.
I became suicidal but would have never thought of doing anything about it.
The max I did was go on some "deep web" chat and ask for advice regarding suicide, looked for a hitman online and all that other delusional stuff.
From that time up until now I have been trying to fix my life in different ways, but failed miserably. I just wasn't equipped to deal with any of my issues and I didn't even know just how broken I was, so it was hard to know what to do.

I have learnt alot from my mistakes over the years but they've also left me with alot of bad experiences which led to limiting beliefs.
Im definitely alot more rational now, but still far from having things figured out.

I have never experienced love, I've never even been around a girl my age. I definitely haven't been laid.

Currently at 18 years old I still have no friends, no love and no sex.
I've been neglected which led to me being physically unmanly, unhealthy and unattractive, to me having no life or skills, to me being uneducated on the simplest things and to me have awful social anxiety and no self esteem.

My environment is horrible, I despise those around me and the place that im in but I have nowhere else to go.
I don't know if I should admit this here so for my safety im gonna say this is purely fictional - I have gotten to a point where I was plotting to **** my parents and potentially my entire family. I wish I could say it were just a fantasy, but the fantasy started a long time before that and at this point it was a plan. If I had more accessible means to do it with I would have definitely done so impulsively.
I eventually changed my mind tho for certain reasons and there is definitely no way of me going back to that spot. I see now how messed up that is, and I now have the option of suicide too.
.

Future wise , I don't see myself moving out anytime soon, I don't know if id be able to get any closer to my goals and improve myself and my life in ways - like I said theoretically its possible but practically its much harder - , I don't see myself finding love or moving out for atleast a decade and im forced to join the military since I live in israel and quitting due to mental health issues will probably hinder me later on in life when looking for jobs and such.

I have not decided to ctb yet, but its definitely an option now. Im at peace with it, I'm not afraid of it anymore.

This is a pretty long message but theres still so much I could add, but im still on my self discovery journey, English isnt my main language and its not easy for me to express myself, so I can't really go into more details.

It might seem like im exaggerating things, especially since I say I have low self esteem, but I hope you don't see me like that.
I've never really opened up to anyone let alone dramaticized my experience for attention.
In my case, I think low self esteem is a byproduct of my life circumstances.


Currently in in a rut , which im in the process of exiting, and im going to give life another shot.
I also think I might be autistic if that helps, im looking into it but it could just be overlapping symptoms of other conditions.

I don't think you're over dramatising your situation at all and your English is excellent by the way.

Sounds like you have gone through an awful lot and, I'm sorry. Can I ask, are you seeing a therapist to work through those issues?

I'd say I suffer from similar things but, likely not to the same extent. I also struggle with social anxiety which meant that things like uni and jobs were terrifying. I'm 44 and also have never had any kind of relationship. So, you're far from alone in missing out on things in life. Not that that helps you though and- I understand. It's hard to be around people who seem to breeze through.

Some uni's do have a resident therapist. I went to see one for a couple of sessions. I think you're absolutely right by the way- that if you don't tackle some of your issues, they could well end up messing things up for you. I pretty much failed at that. I went more for avoidance, which only makes things worse.

I guess honestly though- the only thing I probably do feel is that you need to take some sort of action now. Whether it be trying to find a therapist, getting a part time job, applying to courses. They could well feel uncomfortable. It may be so bad that you decide to quit but, realistically- how can things improve if you don't even try stuff?

That goes for all of us by the way. Not singling you out here. I don't really take my own advice there but I'm not in the frame of mind where I'm even considering recovery now to be honest. It's more treading water for me now. I probably shouldn't even be in this section to be fair. I wish you luck though- in whatever you decide.

 

[26mmmm]

I don't think you're over dramatising your situation at all and your English is excellent by the way.

Sounds like you have gone through an awful lot and, I'm sorry. Can I ask, are you seeing a therapist to work through those issues?

I'd say I suffer from similar things but, likely not to the same extent. I also struggle with social anxiety which meant that things like uni and jobs were terrifying. I'm 44 and also have never had any kind of relationship. So, you're far from alone in missing out on things in life. Not that that helps you though and- I understand. It's hard to be around people who seem to breeze through.

Some uni's do have a resident therapist. I went to see one for a couple of sessions. I think you're absolutely right by the way- that if you don't tackle some of your issues, they could well end up messing things up for you. I pretty much failed at that. I went more for avoidance, which only makes things worse.

I guess honestly though- the only thing I probably do feel is that you need to take some sort of action now. Whether it be trying to find a therapist, getting a part time job, applying to courses. They could well feel uncomfortable. It may be so bad that you decide to quit but, realistically- how can things improve if you don't even try stuff?

That goes for all of us by the way. Not singling you out here. I don't really take my own advice there but I'm not in the frame of mind where I'm even considering recovery now to be honest. It's more treading water for me now. I probably shouldn't even be in this section to be fair. I wish you luck though- in whatever you decide.

Therapists cost alot and might help a bit but at the end of the day its mostly about me solving my own problems.
Im going to tackle life again soon, try to improve in some ways, figure if I actually might be autistic and when school is over maybe look for a job.
I already put up with taking decades to heal and not going down the traditional path in life, but if im not even able to fix things with enough time and effort ill just end it all.

I know that I still have alot to learn, im still irrational in many ways and im stuck with an awfully negative perspective on life - which is wrong - because of all the bad experiences.
So, I'm not going to be impulsive. Going to give it some time.

Thanks for taking your time to reply.
I hope you find peace soon, in life or death.