Why is esoterism increasingly popular?

[noname223]

I have a very negative opinion of esoterism. For me it is often a substitution of religion even a worse one than the original.

Some reasons for its popularity: Substitution for religion, the wish for a simplified world with simple truths, not having to understand complex medical or psychological conditions and instead being able to rely on superstition, people wanting to make money with it, the internet and a certain hype around it -> people in this niche can better connect by it, a search for meaning in an increasingly secular world, the wish for magical thinking, auto-suggestion, mainstream media and TV series which depict and foster esoterism

Supporters of esoterism might argument it helps personal growth and spiritualism serves a human need for meaning

Personally I don't believe in things like astrology at all. Scientists already destroyed their concepts and showed mistakes, I think most of it is a money making scheme. I can even better understand why people believe in God than people who believe in astrology or homeopathy. I consider the latter one as dangerous.

What is your opinion?

 

[Sulyya]

Don't follow the things you mentioned. I do believe in the soul, that's about it.

Never learned anything about astrology, but I'll say it would be a cool thing if it were true. As far as strange beliefs go, it's one of the more artistically interesting ones.

 

[stoopid]

I wouldn't touch anything esoteric, just try 5 meo DMT

 

[Homo erectus]

I assume esotericism here refers to "pagan" or "unorthodox" religions. In fact, worshiping multiple gods, asking oracles, animal sacrifices, etc. have always been there. They are perhaps the norm rather than exception for most part of human existence. It has only been some 2000 years that monotheistic religions have been excluding other religions. In cultures less affected by mainstream religions, traditional practices might have embedded into everyday life, e.g. barbecue meat, astrology, asking oracles. It's probably not them becoming popular, but the mainstream monotheistic religions are losing influence. The more deep down nature of human is resurfacing.

 

[Venus13]

I'm into "esotericism" and complex psychology. They're not mutually exclusive. A lot of great thinkers have been involved im both psychology and/or sciences as well as the kind of studies you're probably referencing. I don't spend much money on my pursuits other than books, which I spend money on in psychology too.

It sticks around for a reason.

 

[whatevs]

You are quite ignorant in terms of esoteric matters if you think they're simple. If you think you come from a 1/100000000000000000000000000 coincidence that somehow sparked a structured and self-replicating system or that conspiracy theories about the elites using symbolism and numerology haven't a multitude of daily confirmations from observable data it's you that's falling into a simplistic worldview.

Materialism is so retarded. They've made people dumber than ever but they get to "participate in the democratic process" and "follow the science". Wearing your mask outdoors was as superstitious and group-comforming as going to church, but now you don't even have a consolation about death and a larger narrative about existence itself.

 

[Himalayan]

Opinion more disinformed than my mom's overwhelming racism. Psychology and esotericism already encountered themselves a lot, like in the works of Carl Jung. It's nothing to do whit astrology, i don't even know why you mentioned that.
It's part of our nature, ignoring it, will fuck you up. It's that simple.
There's plenty of studies out there that would make you question your opinions, most ppl just disregard it tho, so i won't even mention.

 

[noname223]

I expected that my takes are controversial and some people would disagree with it.
I am quite sure there is a strong connection between esoterism and astrology. Astrology is studied by many esoteric practicioners.

Astrology is based on the idea that the positions and movements of celestial bodies have an influence on human affairs and the natural world. Esoteric practitioners often use astrology to gain insight into a person's character, destiny, and future.

Science relies on empirical evidence and the scientific method, whereas esoteric beliefs rely on intuition, symbolism, and ancient knowledge.

And I don't trust the latter one in many cases.

Here is a good wikipedia article that shows how science falsified many predictions of astrology.

Astrology and science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Himalayan]

I expected that my takes are controversial and some people would disagree with it.
I am quite sure there is a strong connection between esoterism and astrology. Astrology is studied by many esoteric practicioners.

Astrology is based on the idea that the positions and movements of celestial bodies have an influence on human affairs and the natural world. Esoteric practitioners often use astrology to gain insight into a person's character, destiny, and future.

Science relies on empirical evidence and the scientific method, whereas esoteric beliefs rely on intuition, symbolism, and ancient knowledge.

And I don't trust the latter one in many cases.

Here is a good wikipedia article that shows how science falsified many predictions of astrology.

Astrology and science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You continue to insist on the worse side. If you do that, then yeah, i would be against it too. Probably no one here who is into esotericism even cares about astrology.
Many esoteric practices are psychological by nature, it's not about seeing your destiny. It's about becoming stronger, so you can create your own. Magicka for example, is a subset of it that ppl often claims to have psychological effects.
Ps: i don't know shit about Magicka, it's an example.

 

[noname223]

You continue to insist on the worse side. If you do that, then yeah, i would be against it too. Probably no one here who is into esotericism even cares about astrology.
Many esoteric practices are psychological by nature, it's not about seeing your destiny. It's about becoming stronger, so you can create your own. Magicka for example, is a subset of it that ppl often claims to have psychological effects.
Ps: i don't know shit about Magicka, it's an example.

Which practices of esoterism/esotericism do you consider as valid and that the things they promise can be considered true?

Here are some practices I question:

mediumship or channeling are for me absurd. I don't believe that any seconds. I think in the end most of it is wishful thinking and auto-suggestion.
-> for example allegedly talking to dead people

alchemy -> another pseudoscience. It contributed to the development of chemistry but most theories of transformation are falsified now and no serious scientist would agree to things like the philosopher stone. Many of its claims are fully unproven. However it is a good topic for one of my favorite animes.

tarot cards - again superstition. These cards cannot predict the future. Such a claim is absurd. Well why do these people need to make money with their tarot cards if it works that well they could just win the lottery weekly. Sorry for that joke but I think such a thinking is for some people detrimental. Some people might profit from the readings. (I don't say they were true.) Though other people are way too obsessed by it and plan their life not by rational thinking instead they rely on such predictions which can result in self-fulfiling prophecies with very negative outcomes. For me tarot relies heavily on subjective interpretation and intuition. And intuition is often deceiving as Daniel Kahneman who won the Nobel Prize for it showed with his theories.

 

[Himalayan]

Which practices of esoterism/esotericism do you consider as valid and that the things they promise can be considered true?

Here are some practices I question:

mediumship or channeling are for me absurd. I don't believe that any seconds. I think in the end most of it is wishful thinking and auto-suggestion.
-> for example allegedly talking to dead people

alchemy -> another pseudoscience. It contributed to the development of chemistry but most theories of transformation are falsified now and no serious scientist would agree to things like the philosopher stone. Many of its claims are fully unproven. However it is a good topic for one of my favorite animes.

tarot cards - again superstition. These cards cannot predict the future. Such a claim is absurd. Well why do these people need to make money with their tarot cards if it works that well they could just win the lottery weekly. Sorry for that joke but I think such a thinking is for some people detrimental. Some people might profit from the readings. (I don't say they were true.) Though other people are way too obsessed by it and plan their life not by rational thinking instead they rely on such predictions which can result in self-fulfiling prophecies with very negative outcomes. For me tarot relies heavily on subjective interpretation and intuition. And intuition is often deceiving as Danier Kahneman who won the Nobel Prize for it showed with his theories.

Most form of meditations, Magicka seems to have some effect. There's a few others.
The CIA, attempted to try a method called "remote viewing" for spying purposes and it did gave results, the entire project, project stargate, came to a halt though, because the results weren't consistent. This example is just the more oogus boogus stuff.
Psychologically, i don't see any way someone could deny it's effects.
You can say it's all suggestion, but when you see examples of people tolerating extreme pain, it seems like the suggestion is a bit too strong no?
This is really not new btw, Carl Jung wrote a book full of esotericism, but again, it's just ignored.


About people being fooled, it's their own fault. There's scams everywhere.
If someone tries to think of this as substitute for science, its also their own fault, this is mostly a psychological tool, not a how to be Jesus Christ.

 

[noname223]

Most form of meditations, Magicka seems to have some effect. There's a few others.
The CIA, attempted to try a method called "remote viewing" for spying purposesand it did gave results, the entire project, project stargate, came to a halt though, because the results weren't consistent. This example is just the more oogus boogus stuff.
Psychologically, i don't see any way someone could deny it's effects.
You can say it's all suggestion, but when you see examples of people tolerating extreme pain, it seems like the suggestion is a bit too strong no?

Auto-suggestion can have pretty strong effects but I had to look more into it.

I believe in some effects of meditation. But meditation is not inherently linked to esoterism.

 

[Himalayan]

Auto-suggestion can have pretty strong effects but I had to look more into it.

I believe in some effects of meditation. But meditation is not inherently linked to esoterism.

Inherently, it isn't. Now, go deep enough and probably it will get pretty weird.
For a long time, it was considered bullshit too. Recently it got the science green card and people started to adopt it

 

[LookAway]

Don't follow the things you mentioned. I do believe in the soul, that's about it.

Never learned anything about astrology, but I'll say it would be a cool thing if it were true. As far as strange beliefs go, it's one of the more artistically interesting ones.

Random but the Gnostic Sect I follow actually teaches that we have to develop our soul through Sexual Transmutation. Basically it teaches that the sexual energy has to rise up. When it rises up it creates the SOULar body. This is the "incorruptible" body that survives the physical death to the Christians.

 

[Sulyya]

Random but the Gnostic Sect I follow actually teaches that we have to develop our soul through Sexual Transmutation. Basically it teaches that the sexual energy has to rise up. When it rises up it creates the SOULar body. This is the "incorruptible" body that survives the physical death to the Christians.

Woah there are sects? I know a bit about gnosticism and think it's neat. Definitely never heard about this though.

 

[LookAway]

Woah there are sects? I know a bit about gnosticism and think it's neat. Definitely never heard about this though.

Yep. There are. Ever since I was around 16 I had some sort of spiritual shift. I began traveling a lot and seeking whatever answers I can find. I wanted to know the secret of secrets. Then I came across something called "the sacred SECRETion" The claustrum oil. These teachings have been kept secret for a reason I guess but there is symbology all around us representing this "secret" inside of us including the story of Santa Clause.

 

[bijou]

i find it is being used as a buzzword mostly to display how unique and special one is in comparison to others.
EDIT: when i say this i mean the memes "i am the most esoteric person at the party" "i am so esoteric i do xyz thing" "i'm shaking my esoteric ass to xyz esoteric musical artist" stuff like that.

however i do believe your definition of religion and religious people here is very broad. there are those (like myself) who believe the scientific nature of the world to be miraculous and chaotic, and i have a preference for abrahamic myth. religion is meant to be intellectualized.

I assume esotericism here refers to "pagan" or "unorthodox" religions. In fact, worshiping multiple gods, asking oracles, animal sacrifices, etc. have always been there. They are perhaps the norm rather than exception for most part of human existence.

this may be true, but many polytheistic religions still have some kind of representation of the "all-powerful-ruler-god" who oversees all the deities. so the monotheistic mode of thought didn't just come out of nowhere. i'm not saying one is more correct than the other, all paths tend to lead to the same place, but it's still something important to factor in. it also discounts the book of genesis being based off of paleolithic oral tradition. when you view adam and eve from the perspective of our evolutionary history it makes complete sense the myth even exists in the first place (i could gab about this one more if given the opportunity). when you observe and compare, all religious myths tend to serve the same purposes: an attempt to explain natural phenomenon, to discuss historical events, or explain why we think the way we do.

 

[Himalayan]

Im fairly certain that esoteric Naziism, Ynglism or modern Cults such as Scientology or Mormonism aren't the best of Options when it comes to a healthy lifestyle, i wasnt Insulting any actual esoteric Ideas but the modern variations of it that try to prey on the public or have no basis. Its stuff like Wicca which claims lineage from Thousands of Years ago with made up stories about how Gardner encountered a genuine surviving Witch Coven, him literally plagiarizing Aleister Crowley or straight up lying about the fact that his Wicca traditions are ancient while they where simply his creations or stolen from Crowley in an effort to dupe People, all this just so he could cheat on his wife.
And i never in any way mentioned that Religions werent esoteric, i simply stated that modern esotericism rarely ever has any substance and more often than not is likely to be scam which is evident especially through the amount of modern Cult Survivors or literal Online Cults preaching esoteric ideals to extract money from their followers.
I at no point stated that Religions or Esoteric beliefs themselves are bad but how they are used for nefarious reasons in the modern day.
Also when did i mention i was Religious?
You should get your aggression checked out man

Yeah. I had a feeling i would be wrong about all of it, but i had to check. Sorry for going nuts on you.

 

[bijou]

To those that thinks you can ignore this. You're fucking weak, and that's just the truth. Viktor Frankrl, was a psychologist and survivor of the Holocaust, guess what he says about who survived the Holocaust? They all had a purpose, he himself was religious, which is the same fucking thing as esotericism in a lot of ways.

i'm not trying to be insulting in any form, i just think this in particular may be a weak example. it isn't very representative of the fact that rabbinic theology/philosophy/analysis is highly diverse, and highly encouraged to be. the jewish religion has always been one of, quite spiritited, debate.

in judaism there's a saying "two jews, three opinions" where viktor frankl believes in purpose after genocide, richard rubenstein believes the holocaust is an indication that god is dead. neither opinion makes one more or less of a jew. i'm not too familiar with the whole intellectual definition of esoteric thought though, only the internet-culture version, so i can't speak to that.

i do agree with you, however, that hope is apart of our nature (and the majority of the comment, i just have an opportunity to talk about judaism so, lol of course i'm gonna do that).

 

[Himalayan]

i'm not trying to be insulting in any form, i just think this in particular may be a weak example. it isn't very representative of the fact that rabbinic theology/philosophy/analysis is highly diverse, and highly encouraged to be. the jewish religion has always been one of, quite spiritited, debate.

in judaism there's a saying "two jews, three opinions" where viktor frankl believes in purpose after genocide, richard rubenstein believes the holocaust is an indication that god is dead. neither opinion makes one more or less of a jew. i'm not too familiar with the whole intellectual definition of esoteric thought though, only the internet-culture version, so i can't speak to that.

i do agree with you, however, that hope is apart of our nature (and the majority of the comment, i just have an opportunity to talk about judaism so, lol of course i'm gonna do that).

Understandable. I went off the rails, it's just that this a major part of what helped me get off from depression. Sorry

 

[bijou]

Understandable. I went off the rails, it's just that this a major part of what helped me get off from depression. Sorry

you're all good ! i'm glad it did :) it's a good thing to be passionate about

 

[Homo erectus]

i find it is being used as a buzzword mostly to display how unique and special one is in comparison to others.
EDIT: when i say this i mean the memes "i am the most esoteric person at the party" "i am so esoteric i do xyz thing" "i'm shaking my esoteric ass to xyz esoteric musical artist" stuff like that.

however i do believe your definition of religion and religious people here is very broad. there are those (like myself) who believe the scientific nature of the world to be miraculous and chaotic, and i have a preference for abrahamic myth. religion is meant to be intellectualized.

this may be true, but many polytheistic religions still have some kind of representation of the "all-powerful-ruler-god" who oversees all the deities. so the monotheistic mode of thought didn't just come out of nowhere. i'm not saying one is more correct than the other, all paths tend to lead to the same place, but it's still something important to factor in. it also discounts the book of genesis being based off of paleolithic oral tradition. when you view adam and eve from the perspective of our evolutionary history it makes complete sense the myth even exists in the first place (i could gab about this one more if given the opportunity). when you observe and compare, all religious myths tend to serve the same purposes: an attempt to explain natural phenomenon, to discuss historical events, or explain why we think the way we do.

I think god and gods simply refer to some powerful but unknown force that is affecting the world. If the unknown is seen as one big mystery, it becomes monotheism. If there are many sources of power, it is polytheism. If the big One includes everything, it becomes pantheism.

Religions (and many non-scientific fields of study) are just different ways of finding out what's behind the known observable world. When some knowledge is known, that knowledge becomes Science. Its "mystical" origin is forgotten. Without useful output attached to it, the remaining endeavor becomes "superstition" and "unscientific" over time. Likewise many people say philosophy is useless.

There are probably some facts that can be extracted from the otherwise mystical scriptures, symbolism, astrology, and other ancient practices. Were ancient people so dumb to believe something totally false? There is probably 30% truth in every lie. The flood myths are now widely believed to refer to the rising sea level after the last ice age. The creation myths probably indicate some previous powerful human form (Sumerian gods) who modified human into its present form (in His own image), by domestication, selective breeding, genetic modification, or whatever, to work as slaves (to till the soil). That's why modern people like to work so much -- to prove themselves useful to the gods. The KPI of good harvest is burnt offering with "an aroma pleasing to the Lord", like the Thanksgiving turkey. But since Christ's death, sacrifice is no longer required. The turkeys are officially freed.

I'd like to hear what other people think about ancient myths.

 

[bijou]

I'd like to hear what other people think about ancient myths.

i like to think that just because myth isn't literally true, doesn't erase the engaging nature of their narratives. myth is a positive demonstration of human curiosity and our innate existential consciousness. i personally, don't believe it's philosophy or analyzation is useless when the narratives can tell us quite a bit about ancient peoples' modes of thought. myth is the history of human storytelling, it's vital to study to understand our past (in terms of how it shaped living, certain foods, tradition, law, art…sooo much ancient art was religious in nature). it is relevant to modernity as well, as our views and perceptions of religion change in the presence of science, and as traditions change in the modern era. how is the pesach seder different from ancient jews? how did christianity evolve from messianic jewish worship in basements, to the megachurch we see today? why is the town oracle now 1 of a thousand different tarot youtubers? why do people continue to visit shinto shrines despite our growing atheist tendencies?

i mentioned above my favourite myth is honestly adam and eve. it's not just a creation myth, it's a psychological one as well. an attempt to explain why we function and think the way we do. why do we make tools, and clothing? why is our language more complex? then, when you think about our natural enemies, the most enigmatic creature that can predate on humans is, and was, the snake. there's an evolutionary hypothesis that primates have the ability to recognize snakes as dangerous at a higher rate than other animals. it makes complete sense the villain of that story is a serpent when they posed such a curious danger to us.

whether we like it or not religion is a very large aspect of our history. idk i think people who say it shouldn't be studied or should be entirely dismissed as "bullshit" are ignoring it's continued historical, and cultural magnitude. even in the mundane of our barbecues.

sorry for such a long reply, i just love these kinds of conversations! thank u for engaging in this with me!

 

[Homo erectus]

i like to think that just because myth isn't literally true, doesn't erase the engaging nature of their narratives. myth is a positive demonstration of human curiosity and our innate existential consciousness. i personally, don't believe it's philosophy or analyzation is useless when the narratives can tell us quite a bit about ancient peoples' modes of thought. myth is the history of human storytelling, it's vital to study to understand our past (in terms of how it shaped living, certain foods, tradition, law, art…sooo much ancient art was religious in nature). it is relevant to modernity as well, as our views and perceptions of religion change in the presence of science, and as traditions change in the modern era. how is the pesach seder different from ancient jews? how did christianity evolve from messianic jewish worship in basements, to the megachurch we see today? why is the town oracle now 1 of a thousand different tarot youtubers? why do people continue to visit shinto shrines despite our growing atheist tendencies?

i mentioned above my favourite myth is honestly adam and eve. it's not just a creation myth, it's a psychological one as well. an attempt to explain why we function and think the way we do. why do we make tools, and clothing? why is our language more complex? then, when you think about our natural enemies, the most enigmatic creature that can predate on humans is, and was, the snake. there's an evolutionary hypothesis that primates have the ability to recognize snakes as dangerous at a higher rate than other animals. it makes complete sense the villain of that story is a serpent when they posed such a curious danger to us.

whether we like it or not religion is a very large aspect of our history. idk i think people who say it shouldn't be studied or should be entirely dismissed as "bullshit" are ignoring it's continued historical, and cultural magnitude. even in the mundane of our barbecues.

sorry for such a long reply, i just love these kinds of conversations! thank u for engaging in this with me!

Yes, consciousness is what ultimately gives meaning to the world. Without an observer/consciousness, the world, even if it really existed, would only be a huge random pattern, random number, or a huge machine, ultimately without any meaning. Consciousness is the place to find out who we are, what the world is all about, why it is all suffering, etc.

Long time ago, knowledge was passed down orally. Memory was precious. Until writing was invented, people probably spent much time everyday reciting and memorizing these stories. There was not extra space to talk bullshit. The use of symbols, such as snakes, therefore was probably not trying to be mystical, but it was the most effective device to invoke feelings, such as fear and awe. The ancients were masters of psychology. Modern psychologists are some of the people quite consistently interested in studying ancient myths. I think there also is the way to ultimately quit this suffering world for good.

 

[SexyIncél]

Newton was a mystic more than scientist. Gödel tried proving god's existence through logic, like Leibniz. Einstein believed many things existed beyond human intelligence

Even if some say they had false beliefs, false beliefs seem powerful for scientists

Science is a tool. Every tool has strengths and limits. It can find invisible principles, but can't explain most complex things we seem to know, probably not even in principle. Human intelligence is extremely limited, like every other animal. There must be many things we're completely oblivious to