Discussion Why has our consciousness turned on us?

[Forever Sleep]

This thread is one of those long and meandering ones that try and make sense of why we might be like we are. I realise it's just going to be waffle for a lot of people- still- I'm grateful if you feel up to reading it and sharing your perspective. Not that it changes anything but I've always been fascinated by why and how a living being designed to live wants to die.

This thread mostly considers our mental attitude towards suicide. I suppose I'm not really thinking about people who have extremely compelling reasons to want to CTB- like chronic physical pain. I would hope that even the most fervant pro-lifer would find sympathy for them. I'm (selfishly) thinking more about people who have ideation but with little to no sign of illness. (Mental or physical) People like me to be honest. Or- that don't necessarily attribute their suicidal thoughts to illness.

I want to firstly say that I believe that feeling suicidal CAN be a rational response to living a life we can't tolerate and see no way to meanigfully change. I don't think ALL suicidal people are mentally ill to the degree that they are no longer able to assess their lives and their own cabilities to change.

That said- we are organic beings. We evolved from nature. Our brains evolved to be conscious. I think we can all agree that life's primary goal is to survive and reproduce. Therfore- feelings and acts of suicide are unnatural in the fundamental biological sense.

I would argue that our consciousness and sense of self has become anything but natural. Still- our instinctive, primal drive to survive is so strong- you'd think that our consciousness would do what it could to work in tandem.

Why then, haven't we evolved to be able to live 'happily' in a world like this? Do you suppose that some people have in fact? The 'normies'? Are they just better at blocking all the bad stuff out and puffing themselves up with their own importance and place in this world?

Perhaps they just had a better shot in life with more support around them. I think many of us have had traumatic childhoods or events that have maybe disrupted the 'natural' need to have and rely on social connections.

Why have we evolved to be so sensitive though? Animals just get on with their shitty lives for the most part. Why do we become depressed if we can't get our own way? How is it evolutionary a good thing to be so dependant on having a very specific lifestyle to be happy?

Perhaps because of just how 'successful' we have become as a race and how we operate- as a society, we have needed to become so niche as individuals. Which means finding that individual path and succeeding on it has become all important but at the same time- extremely difficult.

I can't help but think that this whole conscious awareness thing has backfired on us. Maybe it was a good thing originally. Maybe early man had an evolutionary edge by being able to be conscious and aware of him/herself. Plus- a giant leap in intelligence. Probably made him/her aware that they could subjugate and exploit everything around them!

I suppose I just think that- as a race- we have evolved SO quickly. We have invented things that we are not advanced enough biologically to cope with. So many of us eat processed food now but we're not designed to be healthy with that much sugar, salt and fat. Similarly- our lifestyles are so artificial. We work all hours, we consume social media and TV and many of us are becomming more and more isolated from family and friends. Not to mention the amount of pollutants we have pumped into the environment that we are all breathing, drinking and eating.

Yet- we've not evolved to be able to cope with lifestyles like this. Maybe it isn't in fact our consciousness that is either sick or distorted- it's just that we aren't designed to live the kinds of lives we are being forced to live.

I've heard the argument that depression is a form of self protection- a withdrawel from the world and it's stresses. Still- it leads to isolation- which surely is 'unnatural' also- seeing as we are supposed to be social animals. I suppose I also wonder if thoughts of suicide and anti-natilism are actually a wider form of population control. Not that I'm really convinced but what if it's mother nature's way of reducing the human population?!!

I don't know. A meandering thread really. What do you guys think? Do you even think we are that 'natural' anymore? Was the phenomena of conscious awareness a really good thing for us as a species? Do you suppose that it is illness or distortion that leads us to suicidal ideation, or- do we as a species (some of us) just not fit into a world that has advanced so quickly?

 

[fuzzy-clown]

When I was a child I wished that I would get sick and die. That was before I realized people could end their own lives.

I don't remember how I first had the idea that dying would be a good thing for me. Maybe I just wanted to stop experiencing the misery I was going through. But yeah, suicidal ideation has been part of my life ever since. It's part of my identity.

 

[FuneralCry]

At least in my case, my thoughts of suicide are simply a natural response to having awareness of this world, I've never wanted to be here and I certainly don't think that in any way suicidal thoughts are an 'illness', they could never be. Just the fact that we have the ability to be conscious means that someone can come to the logical conclusion that existence isn't worth enduring unlike animals who are trapped in this cycle of meaningless and insignificant suffering as they lack the awareness to choose to voluntarily exit.

I believe that wanting suicide is the most rational thing that one can wish for, as it's the only way to avoid all of the harm that is a consequence of existing and to die solves all of life's problems, yet of course the fact that we are programmed to survive is what makes suicide so difficult to go through with for many.

 

[Himalayan]

Maybe when we could just run from the problem it served something. If we were a slave or smth.
Or maybe we don't know as much as we pretend to know and this has no point other than your death. Throwing the survival hypothesis to the ground

 

[ksp]

(love the topic and the initial subjects in your op)

the main difference between humans and the rest of the animals: intelligence

all life is based on suffering

animals are not aware of their own suffering (on a philosophical level)

if humans would be only driven by instincts, they'd still suffer but they wouldn't be so acutely aware of their misery

intelligence amplifies our pain and suffering exponentially

we are painfully aware of our existence and its consequences:

our higher cognitive capacities allow us to contemplate our severe limitations

we are aware that life has no meaning or purpose - this, in itself, is devastating but we are also aware of our own impending death and unable to do anything about it: bitter acceptance, or simple denial; we are aware of higher / long term intentions; we have intellectual access to morality and ethics

all these intellectual capabilities (and many, many more) contribute to the differences between all other animals and us

without intelligence, we would avoid any existential threat withe the 'highly evolved' hand-in-the-sand defense mechanism - denial (this is what religion is doing currently)

feeling suicidal CAN be a rational response

suicide is only rational - you don't wake up on day like 'hm, i feel a little suicidal, so off i go'

the only irrationality in suicide is to overcome survival instinct, but the decision to end one's life or suffering is all too rational

a suicide with nembutal in your hand, and no other external pressure, will always be rational

Animals just get on with their shitty lives for the most part

lol (exactly!) so our super sensitivity comes from our higher cognitive capacities, which is a curse and not a blessing (or arrogance)

How is it evolutionary a good thing to be so dependant on having a very specific lifestyle to be happy?

evolution (intelligence) allows for interplanetary travel - the key the spreading the virus (life itself)

to conquer space, life needs much more intelligence, and this is achieved through genetic diversity and competition (without competition and suffering there is no incentive, motivation or drive; so intelligence needs to be exercised, at maximum)

in the end, it all comes to the basic fight between life (nature) and death (entropy)

humanity might destroy itself (extremely likely), so life will need to start over
life will need a few more iterations (the matrix) and it will have the span of a few billion years or until our sun collapses, but entropy never ends

your post inspired my 'meandering' mind (sorry:)

 

[stilhavinightmares]

(love the topic and the initial subjects in your op)

the main difference between humans and the rest of the animals: intelligence

all life is based on suffering

animals are not aware of their own suffering (on a philosophical level)

if humans would be only driven by instincts, they'd still suffer but they wouldn't be so acutely aware of their misery

intelligence amplifies our pain and suffering exponentially

we are painfully aware of our existence and its consequences:

our higher cognitive capacities allow us to contemplate our severe limitations

we are aware that life has no meaning or purpose - this, in itself, is devastating but we are also aware of our own impending death and unable to do anything about it: bitter acceptance, or simple denial; we are aware of higher / long term intentions; we have intellectual access to morality and ethics

all these intellectual capabilities (and many, many more) contribute to the differences between all other animals and us

without intelligence, we would avoid any existential threat withe the 'highly evolved' hand-in-the-sand defense mechanism - denial (this is what religion is doing currently)



suicide is only rational - you don't wake up on day like 'hm, i feel a little suicidal, so off i go'

the only irrationality in suicide is to overcome survival instinct, but the decision to end one's life or suffering is all too rational

a suicide with nembutal in your hand, and no other external pressure, will always be rational



lol (exactly!) so our super sensitivity comes from our higher cognitive capacities, which is a curse and not a blessing (or arrogance)



evolution (intelligence) allows for interplanetary travel - the key the spreading the virus (life itself)

to conquer space, life needs much more intelligence, and this is achieved through genetic diversity and competition (without competition and suffering there is no incentive, motivation or drive; so intelligence needs to be exercised, at maximum)

in the end, it all comes to the basic fight between life (nature) and death (entropy)

humanity might destroy itself (extremely likely), so life will need to start over
life will need a few more iterations (the matrix) and it will have the span of a few billion years or until our sun collapses, but entropy never ends

your post inspired my 'meandering' mind (sorry:)

Just here speechless and in awe from this response and whole discussion. Thank you and @Forever Sleep for sharing your musings.

 

[Forever Sleep]

evolution (intelligence) allows for interplanetary travel - the key the spreading the virus (life itself)

to conquer space, life needs much more intelligence, and this is achieved through genetic diversity and competition (without competition and suffering there is no incentive, motivation or drive; so intelligence needs to be exercised, at maximum)

in the end, it all comes to the basic fight between life (nature) and death (entropy)

humanity might destroy itself (extremely likely), so life will need to start over
life will need a few more iterations (the matrix) and it will have the span of a few billion years or until our sun collapses, but entropy never ends

your post inspired my 'meandering' mind (sorry:)

Never be sorry for 'meandering'. I love it when threads make us think laterally.

And- Oh my God- you're right. No doubt we'll start populating some other poor unsuspecting planet the moment we can. . Completely true also- natural selection in humans has perhaps made the shift into our intellect.

Still- depression and suicidal ideation still intrigues me. There are highly intelligent people out there who suffer terribly with it. I think the most intelligent of our species is very prone to it in fact:

'intelligence appears to be correlated with being more susceptible to depression and anxiety. A study on Mensa members (people in the top 2% for IQ) found those studied to be 182% more likely to develop a mood disorder than people of average intelligence.'

(From jamesbierly.medium.com.)

It follows that the deeper you can think- the more you can analyse all that's wrong with yourself (your limitations/design flaws) and the world you're in (corruption, injustice, greed and an inability to do much about it.)

So- like we seem to agree- depression and suicidal ideation can be a logical response to the body we find ourself trapped in (with all it's limitations) and the world we are stuck on (with all it's limitations.)

So- is it a disease asuch? Or is it just that our brains work differently? If so- and it applies to the more intelligent of our species- why is it an advantage? I believe depression and other mental health conditions can be hereditary. So- whatever it is- it's likely to be passed on... Maybe it's just a horrible mistake!

If I'm honest- I'm not entirely sure natural selection does apply so much to the human race... We tend to frown on that sort of thing as eugenics. So- maybe we have just allowed several 'faults' to emerge and thrive.

I can actually see how anxiety could motivate us. The fear of failure makes us strive to suceed. Still- depression totally screws with us. It kills all motivation and drive. I suppose it forces us to rest- burnout. Still- I just can't see how it's a benefit to most people... Maybe we're just all evolving a mistake! Well- I've done my bit. I haven't reproduced my messed up genes.

That or- it isn't a mistake at all. I suppose we could compare it to our physical pain response. Pain tells us there is something physically wrong with us- so we need to take action. Depression and anxiety I suppose tell us there is something wrong with our lives. Perhaps- if enough people get depressed, there will be enough motivation to make our lives better. Massive social reform or something.

 

[Sunset Limited]

It all started with the first tool-using primate. We beat nature. Natural selection is disabled. Men's sperm count was 100 million per milliliter 30 years ago. 40 million now. Nature sterilizes us. Our genes are getting dirty fast. We've wiped out sixty percent of species since 1900. We will destroy all life along with ourselves. We are an anomaly. I think this kind of life is not suitable for conscious experience in terms of its basic dynamics. To carry a rotting body to absolute destruction.

Unlike general anesthesia, in procedural sedation (such as colonoscopy, endoscopy), the patient is actually conscious, but amnetic, constantly forgets. They execute commands. It's like forgetting every 3-4 seconds. So when the process is over, they don't remember anything. The problem is that in real life we never forget. If we could forget the traumas we experienced whenever we wanted, everything would be very different. After recovering from severe physical pain, we cannot leave it behind. Post-traumatic stress disorder awaits us. The pain continues to resonate. We discover that we can experience very intense pain. Worse, this is how it starts. Living with this anxiety. We continue to suffer because we can think of possible scenarios. In a reality where the pain is so intense, an overdeveloped consciousness can be trouble.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It all started with the first tool-using primate. We beat nature. Natural selection is disabled. Men's sperm count was 100 million per milliliter 30 years ago. 40 million now. Nature sterilizes us. Our genes are getting dirty fast. We've wiped out sixty percent of species since 1900. We will destroy all life along with ourselves. We are an anomaly. I think this kind of life is not suitable for conscious experience in terms of its basic dynamics. To carry a rotting body to absolute destruction.

Unlike general anesthesia, in procedural sedation (such as colonoscopy, endoscopy), the patient is actually conscious, but amnetic, constantly forgets. They execute commands. It's like forgetting every 3-4 seconds. So when the process is over, they don't remember anything. The problem is that in real life we never forget. If we could forget the traumas we experienced whenever we wanted, everything would be very different. After recovering from severe physical pain, we cannot leave it behind. Post-traumatic stress disorder awaits us. The pain continues to resonate. We discover that we can experience very intense pain. Worse, this is how it starts. Living with this anxiety. We continue to suffer because we can think of possible scenarios. In a reality where the pain is so intense, an overdeveloped consciousness can be trouble.

Very eloquent post- thank you.

Actually- I've had a colonoscopy (ERCP) to be precise. True- you are only sedated rather than knocked out. I'm not used to drugs, so, I did feel like I was asleep for most of it. Still- I do remember the doctor pulling the cables out- they seemed to go on and on! Weirdly- I felt far worse after that procedure than when I had general anaesthetic to have my gallbladder out. Neither were that bad though to be fair. Maybe because they actually reverse general anaesthetic rather than just let you come around from sedation. I spent most of the next day sleeping too! Lol.

Still- that's SO true- if only we had control over what we remembered and when. It would be so much easier to get over stuff.

An anomaly- yeah- why not? It's all chance isn't it at the end of the day?

 

[ksp]

(disclaimer: i'm tired and my mind is not too sharp right now - excuse my aberrations)

So- is it a disease asuch?

the most important aspect in all my posts: don't believe that you are mentally ill !!!
almost everyone here is mentally competent ! (and very intelligent)

when you declare yourself to be mentally incompetent you give up your autonomy, for the rest of your life
you can not make a rational decision to end your life - society will default to: 'we know better than you'

granted, there are cases when people can't make this this decision, but they ere extremely rare
but most post here are very intelligent - don't declare yourself to be mentally ill or incompetent !!!

all people alive today are miserable: one moment, or another - all people (no exceptions)

the differences between us and normal people is the acknowledgement of death, and continuous denial or ignorance of death

to me, acknowledgement of death doesn't mean 'end your life - right now !', it simply means to effectively prepare for it - don't think about it all the time, or be obsessed by it

true filtering of society will come when people will be allowed to make their most important decision of their life:

- i know that my life will be brutal: do i want to continue my life? or not?

when nembutal is publicly available, and when all people are free to choose

this is the point when all remaining people will do their best to survive, and brilliant minds will be discovered (from a scale of 25% to 100% intelligence)

if i don't consider myself as a contributor to society, i'm using precious resources: let me go, because i don't have the determination to be a constructive contributor, no matter of the benefits that society offers

LET ME GO ! this is my final decision, so respect me !

my prediction: 75% will continue with a relative life

aware that my life will continue to be brutal - but this is my choice, and i'll do the best for it, until i am able

this is true freedom - absolute autonomy (free of religion and stigma, free of external pressures), and assuming my own responsibility

(i don't want to be too optimistic or pessimistic, but to me this is pro-choice: balance between pros and cons in your life - apply your intelligence to yourself)

It follows that the deeper you can think- the more you can analyse all that's wrong with yourself

the deeper you think: this doesn't necessarily mean that i want to give up; it doesn't necessarily mean that i want to die: it means that i'm ready to put up my best fight; and if in five or ten years i'm constantly getting have negative results, i'm free to exit with dignity (after the age of 18 - roof over your head, and food provided)

(my own life is over: i did the best i could, so let me go already - to me, this point is mute)

I'm not entirely sure natural selection does apply so much to the human race

natural selection applies to our race: but is not as negative as i've seen in other posts

this is relating to Artificial Intelligence:

first off: AI will not gain independent intelligence any time soon: reasoning and problem-solving capabilities, knowledge representation, learning, language and speech capabilities, perception, social intelligence, general intelligence, cognitive functions, creativity, etc

consciousness is extremely difficult (this is extreme - we don't even know how to define it: 'how is like to be me'. a lot of very difficult challenges ! (but not impossible, just not now)

when AI achieves consciousness, humanity will not become obsolete:

all mindless jobs will become obsolete, but people will still be able to perform higher intelligent jobs such as optimization of automation, and above all (most important aspect to you, specifically) - creativity; regardless of intelligence (human, artificial, or otherwise), art was, is, and will always be endless

people will not be able to look for menial jobs, but they will be able to find extremely intelligent jobs (technical) and creative jobs - this is the future - it's gold

so natural selection will help in this way (this the direction of humankind as i see it)

We tend to frown on that sort of thing as eugenics. So- maybe we have just allowed several 'faults' to emerge and thrive.

nature will always make mistakes: this is what trial and error means - eliminate the obvious mistakes

humanity is not accepting all errors - forcefully so (irrational pro-lifers)

reality: cut your loses, and move on (this is what pro-lifers don't allow nature to do, irrelevant of reasons - life is cruel, and we don't accept this)

The fear of failure makes us strive to suceed. Still- depression totally screws with us. It kills all motivation and drive

the only way for humanity to get better is to acknowledge depression, and accept it - fully (don't hide behind the finger - just accept it and combat it). when all people understand that depression is universal it will be much easier to fight it (as opposed to current society)

sorry to take so long to respond - i'm slow…
(i hope some of my thoughts made sense)

ps. i didn't even cover a fraction of the subjects you opened, but i find this discussion fascinating

 

[Sunset Limited]

Very eloquent post- thank you.

Actually- I've had a colonoscopy (ERCP) to be precise. True- you are only sedated rather than knocked out. I'm not used to drugs, so, I did feel like I was asleep for most of it. Still- I do remember the doctor pulling the cables out- they seemed to go on and on! Weirdly- I felt far worse after that procedure than when I had general anaesthetic to have my gallbladder out. Neither were that bad though to be fair. Maybe because they actually reverse general anaesthetic rather than just let you come around from sedation. I spent most of the next day sleeping too! Lol.

Still- that's SO true- if only we had control over what we remembered and when. It would be so much easier to get over stuff.

An anomaly- yeah- why not? It's all chance isn't it at the end of the day?

Thank you nice thread. I wish we could forget whenever we wanted. Procedural sedation offers a different experience depending on which drug it is used with.

Midazolam - "Conscious" sedation. The anesthesiologist usually chooses this. It is easier to manage the patient.

Propofol - Amnetic. A harder path for the anesthesiologist, but better for the patient. It offers an experience close to general anesthesia. Most patients do not remember anything.

 

[Shu]

Our egos have become overdeveloped.

 

[rifle]

I think the answer is in the fact that we're still evolving. homo sapiens sapiens is a very young species. the human civilization is not even in the embryo stage right now. developing a consciousness we have now has helped us to survive so far, but the future is not a guarantee. I'm really curious to know if we will have any descendants species-wise and how might their consciousness look. for all we know our types of brain will doom us to go extinct without leaving anything behind.
after all we're not special, no matter what we like to think. species and specimens that are evolutional standstills have always existed, that's kinda the point of evolution. it's just that if you're one of those you have no way to know.

 

[CTB Dream]

Life goalless there no goal it obly flow. Main prob is brain development diff body brain conflict body same 2 diff program work oppose other. This all describe advanced natural result Brain develop3 this no body develop. Brain same comp body still not advance. Brain apply logic etc body eat etc vry differ,

 

[Drakkamora]

Reading your thread, it makes me begin to wonder if suicide isn't in fact the next stage on the human evolutionary chart. Or perhaps de-evolution in essence. Consider it the natural order of nature itself taking back control by allowing the human consciousness to be able to fathom suicide, thereby finding a way to cut the invasive species that is ourselves down.

 

[neoyokio]

This thread is one of those long and meandering ones that try and make sense of why we might be like we are. I realise it's just going to be waffle for a lot of people- still- I'm grateful if you feel up to reading it and sharing your perspective. Not that it changes anything but I've always been fascinated by why and how a living being designed to live wants to die.

This thread mostly considers our mental attitude towards suicide. I suppose I'm not really thinking about people who have extremely compelling reasons to want to CTB- like chronic physical pain. I would hope that even the most fervant pro-lifer would find sympathy for them. I'm (selfishly) thinking more about people who have ideation but with little to no sign of illness. (Mental or physical) People like me to be honest. Or- that don't necessarily attribute their suicidal thoughts to illness.

I want to firstly say that I believe that feeling suicidal CAN be a rational response to living a life we can't tolerate and see no way to meanigfully change. I don't think ALL suicidal people are mentally ill to the degree that they are no longer able to assess their lives and their own cabilities to change.

That said- we are organic beings. We evolved from nature. Our brains evolved to be conscious. I think we can all agree that life's primary goal is to survive and reproduce. Therfore- feelings and acts of suicide are unnatural in the fundamental biological sense.

I would argue that our consciousness and sense of self has become anything but natural. Still- our instinctive, primal drive to survive is so strong- you'd think that our consciousness would do what it could to work in tandem.

Why then, haven't we evolved to be able to live 'happily' in a world like this? Do you suppose that some people have in fact? The 'normies'? Are they just better at blocking all the bad stuff out and puffing themselves up with their own importance and place in this world?

Perhaps they just had a better shot in life with more support around them. I think many of us have had traumatic childhoods or events that have maybe disrupted the 'natural' need to have and rely on social connections.

Why have we evolved to be so sensitive though? Animals just get on with their shitty lives for the most part. Why do we become depressed if we can't get our own way? How is it evolutionary a good thing to be so dependant on having a very specific lifestyle to be happy?

Perhaps because of just how 'successful' we have become as a race and how we operate- as a society, we have needed to become so niche as individuals. Which means finding that individual path and succeeding on it has become all important but at the same time- extremely difficult.

I can't help but think that this whole conscious awareness thing has backfired on us. Maybe it was a good thing originally. Maybe early man had an evolutionary edge by being able to be conscious and aware of him/herself. Plus- a giant leap in intelligence. Probably made him/her aware that they could subjugate and exploit everything around them!

I suppose I just think that- as a race- we have evolved SO quickly. We have invented things that we are not advanced enough biologically to cope with. So many of us eat processed food now but we're not designed to be healthy with that much sugar, salt and fat. Similarly- our lifestyles are so artificial. We work all hours, we consume social media and TV and many of us are becomming more and more isolated from family and friends. Not to mention the amount of pollutants we have pumped into the environment that we are all breathing, drinking and eating.

Yet- we've not evolved to be able to cope with lifestyles like this. Maybe it isn't in fact our consciousness that is either sick or distorted- it's just that we aren't designed to live the kinds of lives we are being forced to live.

I've heard the argument that depression is a form of self protection- a withdrawel from the world and it's stresses. Still- it leads to isolation- which surely is 'unnatural' also- seeing as we are supposed to be social animals. I suppose I also wonder if thoughts of suicide and anti-natilism are actually a wider form of population control. Not that I'm really convinced but what if it's mother nature's way of reducing the human population?!!

I don't know. A meandering thread really. What do you guys think? Do you even think we are that 'natural' anymore? Was the phenomena of conscious awareness a really good thing for us as a species? Do you suppose that it is illness or distortion that leads us to suicidal ideation, or- do we as a species (some of us) just not fit into a world that has advanced so quickly?

This thread is one of those long and meandering ones that try and make sense of why we might be like we are. I realise it's just going to be waffle for a lot of people- still- I'm grateful if you feel up to reading it and sharing your perspective. Not that it changes anything but I've always been fascinated by why and how a living being designed to live wants to die.

This thread mostly considers our mental attitude towards suicide. I suppose I'm not really thinking about people who have extremely compelling reasons to want to CTB- like chronic physical pain. I would hope that even the most fervant pro-lifer would find sympathy for them. I'm (selfishly) thinking more about people who have ideation but with little to no sign of illness. (Mental or physical) People like me to be honest. Or- that don't necessarily attribute their suicidal thoughts to illness.

I want to firstly say that I believe that feeling suicidal CAN be a rational response to living a life we can't tolerate and see no way to meanigfully change. I don't think ALL suicidal people are mentally ill to the degree that they are no longer able to assess their lives and their own cabilities to change.

That said- we are organic beings. We evolved from nature. Our brains evolved to be conscious. I think we can all agree that life's primary goal is to survive and reproduce. Therfore- feelings and acts of suicide are unnatural in the fundamental biological sense.

I would argue that our consciousness and sense of self has become anything but natural. Still- our instinctive, primal drive to survive is so strong- you'd think that our consciousness would do what it could to work in tandem.

Why then, haven't we evolved to be able to live 'happily' in a world like this? Do you suppose that some people have in fact? The 'normies'? Are they just better at blocking all the bad stuff out and puffing themselves up with their own importance and place in this world?

Perhaps they just had a better shot in life with more support around them. I think many of us have had traumatic childhoods or events that have maybe disrupted the 'natural' need to have and rely on social connections.

Why have we evolved to be so sensitive though? Animals just get on with their shitty lives for the most part. Why do we become depressed if we can't get our own way? How is it evolutionary a good thing to be so dependant on having a very specific lifestyle to be happy?

Perhaps because of just how 'successful' we have become as a race and how we operate- as a society, we have needed to become so niche as individuals. Which means finding that individual path and succeeding on it has become all important but at the same time- extremely difficult.

I can't help but think that this whole conscious awareness thing has backfired on us. Maybe it was a good thing originally. Maybe early man had an evolutionary edge by being able to be conscious and aware of him/herself. Plus- a giant leap in intelligence. Probably made him/her aware that they could subjugate and exploit everything around them!

I suppose I just think that- as a race- we have evolved SO quickly. We have invented things that we are not advanced enough biologically to cope with. So many of us eat processed food now but we're not designed to be healthy with that much sugar, salt and fat. Similarly- our lifestyles are so artificial. We work all hours, we consume social media and TV and many of us are becomming more and more isolated from family and friends. Not to mention the amount of pollutants we have pumped into the environment that we are all breathing, drinking and eating.

Yet- we've not evolved to be able to cope with lifestyles like this. Maybe it isn't in fact our consciousness that is either sick or distorted- it's just that we aren't designed to live the kinds of lives we are being forced to live.

I've heard the argument that depression is a form of self protection- a withdrawel from the world and it's stresses. Still- it leads to isolation- which surely is 'unnatural' also- seeing as we are supposed to be social animals. I suppose I also wonder if thoughts of suicide and anti-natilism are actually a wider form of population control. Not that I'm really convinced but what if it's mother nature's way of reducing the human population?!!

I don't know. A meandering thread really. What do you guys think? Do you even think we are that 'natural' anymore? Was the phenomena of conscious awareness a really good thing for us as a species? Do you suppose that it is illness or distortion that leads us to suicidal ideation, or- do we as a species (some of us) just not fit into a world that has advanced so quickly?

I love this post, so much I am thinking about. This one article from New Scientist gives a theory that I hadn't heard before that reshaped how I saw things. The whole article is very interesting on the subject of trying to define consciousness and intelligence, but this paragraph sums up what I think the most important point is:
"Most researchers agree that the brain operates at least partly by generating simulations. However, many disagree that consciousness is a functional piece of the modelling machinery. Instead, a widely held view sees it as the unintended by-product of information rushing through the closed loop of connections that is the brain. Consciousness can't help existing despite serving no particular purpose, just like the noise emitted by a running engine, which has no bearing on the workings of the engine itself. By this way of thinking, self-awareness isn't even a simulation; it is just a hall of mirrors."

in a way, this becomes a tidy theory for why suicidality would occur. We have this consciousness but we don't know why and it's actually not very useful, in fact, just makes us acutely aware of how much we operate according to base biological instincts that aren't in line with "humane" ideals.