Basically title. It's like most people I've seen who believe in the 'my body, my choice' mantra are fine with almost everything else, but when it comes to suicide they become hypocritical and don't agree with it. How does that make any sense? You can't just say that you completely own your body and can do almost anything with it, but dying by your own hand is a no-no.
Fktw0rld
An end with suffering > Suffering without an end
- Aug 29, 2022
- 404
Not so much the COVID shot either. They were raving hypocritical maniacs regarding that as well.
AInilam
Student
- Dec 17, 2023
- 173
I think that's a very generalized statement. I think most people across the board, regardless of politics, don't want to have it on record that they're an advocate for suicide. It's just another one of those ''hush-hush'' topics that people would rather sweep under the rug. Also being pro-choice helps negate suffering imo, by preventing another innocent from becoming a potential statistic after being forced to grow up with parents who either don't want them or can't support them but are forced to have them.
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A horrible, cynical part of me thinks it's pure selfishness and convenience. They can maybe envisage being burdened with an unwanted pregnancy. An unwanted child that would drain their resources- so, maybe they can see the sense in killing that off. But- someone they love and rely on offing themselves would impact their life in a negative way.
I am actually pro-abortion myself- better relieve it of its existence before it comes into this world and realises it was unwanted. Still, 'My body, my choice' seems a strange choice of words to me. I think it's far better suited to assisted suicide. We are making that choice for ourselves.
I think their slogan should be more like: 'Our baby, (it's the Dad's too!) our choice.' It's unlikely a choice the mother makes on her own (unless it was rape) and it's hardly like getting a mole removed! That baby doesn't belong to her body anyway. It's a separate entity. But still- yeah- I do agree with both.
I am actually pro-abortion myself- better relieve it of its existence before it comes into this world and realises it was unwanted. Still, 'My body, my choice' seems a strange choice of words to me. I think it's far better suited to assisted suicide. We are making that choice for ourselves.
I think their slogan should be more like: 'Our baby, (it's the Dad's too!) our choice.' It's unlikely a choice the mother makes on her own (unless it was rape) and it's hardly like getting a mole removed! That baby doesn't belong to her body anyway. It's a separate entity. But still- yeah- I do agree with both.
They believe suicide is a selfish act which affects more people than just themselves.
I think the opposite is true, the left and centre are typically very pro choice and pro suicide. It's the right who want to control people.
ijustwishtodie
death will be my ultimate bliss
- Oct 29, 2023
- 5,219
Because they don't see suicide as a rational and valid choice that one could make hence they think they have to act according to what they think is the suicidal people's best wishes. In other words, they believe that every human that exists wouldn't logically and rationally make the choice to bring their body to permanent cessation (with maybe the exception of those who have terminal illnesses and are about to die anyway).
This is basically just cognitive dissonance
This is basically just cognitive dissonance
SilentSadness
The rain pours eternally.
- Feb 28, 2023
- 1,128
It doesn't make sense to be for abortion but against suicide, in fact it doesn't make sense to be against suicide at all, because this reality is filled with so much pain, injustice, and completely unnecessary suffering.
FuneralCry
Just wanting some peace
- Sep 24, 2020
- 38,957
Sadly I believe so many people have this delusional worship of existence that means they refuse to see suicide as the very valid, logical choice it truly is, it disgusts me how those humans force their harmful and insensitive delusions onto others. To me it's very insane to be against the right to die especially as none of us consented to this existence that is filled with endless risks and suffering, it isn't like there could be any disadvantages to not existing anyway, a fate that is all we are destined for.
LaVieEnRose
Angelic
- Jul 23, 2022
- 4,253
It doesn't make sense to be against abortion and against suicide either.
Mental gymnastics. The whole flip-a-rooney that's apparent to me, is.. They're really the ones without mental agency. As all I feel from this is Gaslighting, knowing full well, it's not me without agency.
Like a truly innocent person (as crass an example this is) accused of rape, but no ones believing them. How alone they must feel.
Like I've been thinking, it doesn't matter the truth anymore, it's there buried deep, but if you stick 5 people in a room and 1 states the truth and 1 states a lie and the other 3 go with the lie, the lie is the truth and the truth is now a lie. The bigger group gets to shut down all truth, just by being a bigger number of bodies that say so. Then into the world, 4 agreeing will grow more to that cause than the single persons truth
Look at gang mentality, scrotes in the UK, chavs, whatever. 5 of em to rob a scooter with bolt croppers, never classed as a weapon if caught and tried, disgusting defence will have it, was only a "tool" thus reduced punishment. Anyhow, get 1 of those 5 at home alone I bet they're a little "mum can I have smiley faces for tea" bitch.
Edit, think I've gone on a ranty tangent there.
Point being, gaslighting being alone knowing your truth but controlled by masses of brain dead twats.
whitefeather
Thank the gods for Death
- Apr 23, 2020
- 518
In Canada we do - we legalized euthanasia / MAID 2022
Lulzacruel
Specialist
- Jun 13, 2023
- 336
Because this topic causes some people and brains to shut down.
not-2-b-the-answer
Archangel
- Mar 23, 2018
- 9,519
I agree with you. Just admitting that you believed in Assisted Suicide would be political suicide.
In the US FOXNEWSMAXNATION would have a Field Day with it. Then find a way to blame Hillary Clinton.
EvisceratedJester
|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
- Oct 21, 2023
- 3,652
Yeah, but the thing is, most Canadians are only for euthanasia when it comes to those who are terminally ill. Most Canadians still draw the line when it comes to the idea of anyone without any horrible incurable physical illness being able to access euthanasia, albeit there has been an increase in the amount of support of MAID availability to those whose sole condition is mental illness/psychological suffering.
- Asked about different scenarios for MAID eligibility, Canadians hold varying views. Two-thirds say that someone dealing with debilitating chronic pain should be able to request MAID. Support is much lower in scenarios where a person is dealing with mental health challenges such as post-traumatic stress disorder (23%) or severe depression (22%)
Mental Health and MAID: Canadians question looming changes to Canada’s assisted-death law -
Canadians divided whether surge in MAID since 2016 represents success or failure in health care February 13, 2023 – As the Trudeau government again delays changes to Canada’s medical assistance in death (MAID) laws that would have expanded coverage to those suffering solely from mental illness...
angusreid.org
While more supportive in comparison to most conservatives, I've seen a lot of liberals and leftists from here who have expressed opposition to MAID being available to non-terminally ill people.
A lot of liberals and leftists, while a lot more progressive when it comes to the certain aspects of being pro-choice, such as in the case of abortions and euthanasia for the terminally ill, are still completely against the idea of allowing everyone the right to euthanasia.
Society views those who are suicidal as being irrational and a lot of people tend to value the lives of humans above all other organisms (which is natural, since it's our own species we are talking about). It's much easier to treat all cases of non-terminally ill people wanting to end their own lives as something that is only caused by trauma and mental illness and that could easily be fixed with therapy, pills, and a bit of love and support from family and friends than to acknowledge the fact that not everyone who is suicidal is mentally ill and/or is traumatized. That not every suicidal person who is mentally ill and/or is traumatized can fix their problems through treatment and having a support system.
A lot of people, including most liberal and leftists, aren't going to bother listening to us anytime soon. This topic is a heavy, complex one, and a lot of people tend to let their own biases, morals, and personal experiences get in the way of having a proper open-minded conversation on this.
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BlazingBob
I'm still here b/c of my dogs
- Oct 28, 2021
- 602
Exactly. I don't give a shit either. I just don't want to be here anymore.
Same reason pro-life Republicans support police, war, death penalty, etc...but then again, so do liberal politicians in the US. I don't even bother with this clusterfuck world anymore. I'll be gone in a few weeks.
And from what I understand, it's really not that difficult to get approved for government-sanctioned euthanasia, especially in Ontario. I read stories that people claimed to have long COVID in Ottawa, and were allowed to do government euthanasia. Sadly I'm not Canadian, so I cannot take advantage of that awesome health benefit.
And from what I understand, it's really not that difficult to get approved for government-sanctioned euthanasia, especially in Ontario. I read stories that people claimed to have long COVID in Ottawa, and were allowed to do government euthanasia. Sadly I'm not Canadian, so I cannot take advantage of that awesome health benefit.
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Lots of good points already made, I'll just add:
The my body my choice crowd do not view the unborn as people. They view them as 'a clump of cells', with little to no moral value. Terminating a process that results in life is not the same as killing an already living being. To be clear - I don't disagree with this position. As for suicidal's: It's pretty hard to look at a fully developed and conscience human and call them a clump of cells. So they need to grandstand and act like suicide is a terrible and awful blight upon humanity while abortion is just healthcare. Because of course all human life is inherently precious and valuable.
The my body my choice crowd do not view the unborn as people. They view them as 'a clump of cells', with little to no moral value. Terminating a process that results in life is not the same as killing an already living being. To be clear - I don't disagree with this position. As for suicidal's: It's pretty hard to look at a fully developed and conscience human and call them a clump of cells. So they need to grandstand and act like suicide is a terrible and awful blight upon humanity while abortion is just healthcare. Because of course all human life is inherently precious and valuable.
KuriGohan&Kamehameha
想死不能 - 想活不能
- Nov 23, 2020
- 1,740
Most people do not believe in true bodily autonomy. Otherwise there would be no qualms with drug use, risky behaviour, saying no to life saving medical interventions, having a choice to take on risks in medical decision making, and anything else that could result in early termination of life.
It is why bystander laws and involuntary sectioning rules exist, because the default assumption is that anyone wants to live in any sort of condition, unless you are a very elderly person with a terminal illness and advanced directives, which in that case, death is viewed as inevitable. Furthermore, there are many laws which try to force people into making the "healthiest" choices by taxing them for drinking alcohol, smoking, or eating sugar, even though this person may not even develop pathologies based on those lifestyle choices. Prolonging life at all costs is embedded deeply in most societies.
With abortion, it is typically seen as an intervention beneficial to a woman's future quality of life, as pregnancy and childbirth could have severely negative effects for certain people both physically and mentally. So under this framework, it makes sense (even though I disagree with this logic) why someone who is pro-choice about abortion may not be about other choices like euthanasia.
It is why bystander laws and involuntary sectioning rules exist, because the default assumption is that anyone wants to live in any sort of condition, unless you are a very elderly person with a terminal illness and advanced directives, which in that case, death is viewed as inevitable. Furthermore, there are many laws which try to force people into making the "healthiest" choices by taxing them for drinking alcohol, smoking, or eating sugar, even though this person may not even develop pathologies based on those lifestyle choices. Prolonging life at all costs is embedded deeply in most societies.
With abortion, it is typically seen as an intervention beneficial to a woman's future quality of life, as pregnancy and childbirth could have severely negative effects for certain people both physically and mentally. So under this framework, it makes sense (even though I disagree with this logic) why someone who is pro-choice about abortion may not be about other choices like euthanasia.
IMO the real answer is that most people don't really arrive at their beliefs through rational deliberation but based primarily on their gut feelings. I'm pro-choice with respect to both issues, but most liberals I know have no idea of what the actual implications of being pro-choice on abortion actually are. They just don't like the idea of being forced to deal with the biological consequences of having sex. I'm fully convinced that even if fetuses were fully conscious and could feel pain and didn't want to die, most pro-choice people on the left would still be pro-choice.
Not that I think the right is any better mind you, it seems obvious to me that they really do just want to control women's sexuality because they're threatened by the fact that birth control makes women more independent - nothing else they do suggests that they give a shit about the well-being of the soon-to-be-born.
Suicide makes people feel sad, so they don't like it. If they don't like something, that means it's immoral/unhealthy and should be outlawed at all costs. This really is how most people think...
Not that I think the right is any better mind you, it seems obvious to me that they really do just want to control women's sexuality because they're threatened by the fact that birth control makes women more independent - nothing else they do suggests that they give a shit about the well-being of the soon-to-be-born.
Suicide makes people feel sad, so they don't like it. If they don't like something, that means it's immoral/unhealthy and should be outlawed at all costs. This really is how most people think...
seventynineZ
0.
- Mar 20, 2023
- 14
Imo, ultimately comes down to people not seeing fetuses as humans. That's it.
Most people (not just liberals) do believe in suicide but it's mostly in extreme circumstances.
As for the common arguments:
They believe that the urge to CTB can be overcome by all humans with the correct mind, body and environment and that it is all realistically attainable within a reasonable amount of time for most. They don't believe rings true with child rearing as you have a 8-10 month time limit, you're emotionally not yourself due to child rearing, your environment options are limited by your pregnancy and your body is no longer your own.
They don't believe that the urge to CTB is natural to humans, it goes against everything a human should want.
Whereas the urge to abort an unwanted fetus does seem to be natural and only really goes against the urge to reproduce but there's arguments against that as maybe they do want to reproduce but not under their current circumstances as it'd effect their survival.
You're misinterpreting what "My body, my choice" even means though and boiling it down to just the words being said when in reality it's much more akin to a slogan or mantra.
Most people (not just liberals) do believe in suicide but it's mostly in extreme circumstances.
As for the common arguments:
They believe that the urge to CTB can be overcome by all humans with the correct mind, body and environment and that it is all realistically attainable within a reasonable amount of time for most. They don't believe rings true with child rearing as you have a 8-10 month time limit, you're emotionally not yourself due to child rearing, your environment options are limited by your pregnancy and your body is no longer your own.
They don't believe that the urge to CTB is natural to humans, it goes against everything a human should want.
Whereas the urge to abort an unwanted fetus does seem to be natural and only really goes against the urge to reproduce but there's arguments against that as maybe they do want to reproduce but not under their current circumstances as it'd effect their survival.
You're misinterpreting what "My body, my choice" even means though and boiling it down to just the words being said when in reality it's much more akin to a slogan or mantra.
May I ask how I'm misinterpreting 'my body, my choice'? Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole point is having true bodily autonomy and the freedom to do what we want with our lives. I know reality isn't as simple as that, but the truth stays the same. Either we have full control over our lives or we don't. And if we don't have the right over our own bodies then who has that power and right to choose for us? The government? Complete strangers? Sure most people abide by what the government or society dictates, but that doesn't make it written in stone that you have to. It might be akin to a 'Live, Laugh, Love' cliche however the philosophy behind the slogan should matter to every individual who values bodily integrity.
seventynineZ
0.
- Mar 20, 2023
- 14
"My body, my choice" always comes with the caveat "unless it hurts other people". The big examples (that some have already pointed out) are knowingly spreading disease, late term abortions and just physical harm to other individuals in general. They would argue that it's not only just physical harm though, mental harm is just as bad if not worse and generally they believe suicide is mentally harmful (and sometimes physically) to everybody around it. Imo, it's kinda fucked they want to force us to live just so others don't feel worse but
just my take. It's essentially keeping us poisoner and forcing us to endure mental/physical torture for the overall health of society. This is also why a lot of ppl say suicide is selfish, which it is but realistically everybody is selfish and prioritizes their own wants, being "selfish" isn't a negative thing. sorry for the mini rant lmao.If we're being extremely uncharitable we could believe that they actually want individuals to do whatever they want with their body to anybody with no consequences. But realistically they don't want individuals to hurt others and they want there to be consequences when people do hurt others. This is also why I said it ultimately comes down to them not seeing fetuses as humans because if they did, they'd obviously be against abortion.
I see your point, thanks for sharing your perspective. Hope you have a tolerable night."My body, my choice" always comes with the caveat "unless it hurts other people". The big examples (that some have already pointed out) are knowingly spreading disease, late term abortions and just physical harm to other individuals in general. They would argue that it's not only just physical harm though, mental harm is just as bad if not worse and generally they believe suicide is mentally harmful (and sometimes physically) to everybody around it. Imo, it's kinda fucked they want to force us to live just so others don't feel worse but
If we're being extremely uncharitable we could believe that they actually want individuals to do whatever they want with their body to anybody with no consequences. But realistically they don't want individuals to hurt others and they want there to be consequences when people do hurt others. This is also why I said it ultimately comes down to them not seeing fetuses as humans because if they did, they'd obviously be against abortion.
Aim
🤍
- Sep 12, 2023
- 945
Tokugawa_Yoshinobu
Arcanist
- Sep 10, 2023
- 424
In my other comments where I tried to explain the contempt and taboo against suicide in society by citing that it might because it's subversive towards societal norms i.e wanting to live is mostly a human universal but now something different relating to liberals of all sorts:
After Christianity became less and less important the West's moral frame work a sort of post-Christian liberal morality/mentality took over and now we are in the plight that we find ourselves in with regards to some moral questions. This secular morality upholds human rights and my criticism of those is that are derived from western Christianity but in a secularized form.
If you don't believe me what else is the idea of the inherent worth of human life as an unquestioned preprosition? Both secular, post-ww2 liberalism in the West and Christianity agree on this.
There isn't any sin associated with suicide in a liberal's mindset BUT subconciously they may think that are you violating human rights by being of the opinion that not all life is worth living. Therefore subconciously you can be seen the same as a murderer or a social darwinist who thinks the weak may die off and the strong survive.
Thinking all life has equal value, egalitarianism and protecting it. And that is why suicide is still a taboo. And you may think and indeed that's the topic of this thread that it's hypocritical for a choice-based morality system that says it's only bad when it harms others to be so opposed to suicide but there are other faccettes to this system of values that make it appear suddenly less contradictory.
I can't speak for other cultural sphere besides my own on this subject but I assume some westernized mentalities have largely spread to places like Asia on this as well. Maybe not to that extant but here are just some thoughts on this.
After Christianity became less and less important the West's moral frame work a sort of post-Christian liberal morality/mentality took over and now we are in the plight that we find ourselves in with regards to some moral questions. This secular morality upholds human rights and my criticism of those is that are derived from western Christianity but in a secularized form.
If you don't believe me what else is the idea of the inherent worth of human life as an unquestioned preprosition? Both secular, post-ww2 liberalism in the West and Christianity agree on this.
There isn't any sin associated with suicide in a liberal's mindset BUT subconciously they may think that are you violating human rights by being of the opinion that not all life is worth living. Therefore subconciously you can be seen the same as a murderer or a social darwinist who thinks the weak may die off and the strong survive.
Thinking all life has equal value, egalitarianism and protecting it. And that is why suicide is still a taboo. And you may think and indeed that's the topic of this thread that it's hypocritical for a choice-based morality system that says it's only bad when it harms others to be so opposed to suicide but there are other faccettes to this system of values that make it appear suddenly less contradictory.
I can't speak for other cultural sphere besides my own on this subject but I assume some westernized mentalities have largely spread to places like Asia on this as well. Maybe not to that extant but here are just some thoughts on this.
asian.neet
Specialist
- Oct 13, 2023
- 307
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