Why does society put emphasis on DYING humans but not SUFFERING humans???

[4everHeartBroken]

Some humans don't want to live, but forced to.

But ALL humans do NOT want to feel emotional or physical PAIN.

We are FORCED to live with our pain against our will.

I'm trying to use as little words as possible to get my point across. This just doesn't seem ethical. It feels corrupt and just cruel to those suffering in silence. Therapy will NOT fix me (I've tried it for years).

I understand there are people who actually get better with talk therapy and their lives improve. However, I'm not talking about this particular group of sufferers. I'm talking about the ones who've tried therapy for years (even trying different therapists with different personality types) who have life long, untreatable chronic depression for decades. The ones who've spent years in therapy with no success. The people you don't see in mental hospitals or in jails… I'm talking about a much larger group of people who simply want to end their suffering due to decades of incurable angst and suffering.

I can't imagine a few months of late stage cancer being any more painful than living with untreatable, unbearable depression. Why do we draw the line when it comes to MENTAL agony when so many patients are clearly NOT getting better with therapy?

My thoughts… Pain is Pain. Suffering is Suffering.

Your thoughts?

 

[TransTaxEvader]

it's so the people in power can use us.

thats it.

 

[Whale_bones]

A lot of factors, two big ones are people being selfish and wanting to be socially accepted/liked. The idea that's taught to us in many ways from birth is to always carry on, life is precious and good, anyone who thinks differently is mistaken, mentally ill and/or doesn't know what's best for themselves.

Many people assume that someone who says they're suffering isn't going through anything worse than they are, it's mind over matter, "everything happens for a reason" and "they've been through hard times too". Surely they could do better or fix the problem.

Of course, they make these assumptions while knowing little to nothing about another person's life. It's constantly reinforced in many areas of society though, people are considered heroes for stopping another person's death, regardless of if that person was a stranger who they'll never see or check up on again. They'll still be labeled as a hero by a large group of people, while the one person who they caused pain can be ignored and never thought of.

Intractable suffering from physical causes isn't respected either, the cases that fit into a perfect box of "well-known disease + get diagnosed quickly + die quickly while still attempting every medical intervention" are given surface-level sympathy, though that's still based on others' desire to feel good about themselves.

The much, much larger group of people who experience prolonged suffering from things that don't fit this perfect list (rare conditions, non-lethal conditions, deciding to stop unhelpful medical interventions, just to name a few) are subject to the same treatment as those with purely mental suffering; assumption that their pain isn't valid and "bad enough", that they should force themselves to survive for as long as possible while undergoing every possible medical intervention, and that they don't know what's best for themselves.

Even though many of us here withstand levels of mental and physical pain that would have most people crying in a corner, the assumption will always be that they know better, that it's comparable to something they've experienced themselves.

Understanding how false that assumption is means accepting the world isn't innately good, life isn't innately precious, some things are just bad. A lot of people aren't willing to confront that.

 

[JesiBel]

As long as you are alive you can be exploited, we all need money and things to keep living. The social machinery must keep working, we are no longer humans but "productive objects". They leave no room for human emotions, pain or suffering, those who control you do not care about you. And not only that, they will also blame you for being weak and not "trying harder."

The system is unfair and inhumane. If you don't follow the rules or "fix yourself" you will be excluded, it's a trap with no way out.

Maybe that's why I'm here, to look for a way out.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

it's so the people in power can use us.

thats it.

That is another reason for me to kill myself to escape their prison

And undo this evil torturous imposition and imprisonment

 

[divinemistress36]

Theres a misconception that all mental illness can be treated with the right med or treatment. Even though a lot of meds/treatments fail people as nobody really knows what causes mental illness they want you to keep being a guniea pig and mental health issues arent seen as bad as physical issues

 

[4everHeartBroken]

"The social machinery must keep working, we are no longer humans but "productive objects". They leave no room for human emotions, pain or suffering."

Exactly. This is exactly how life feels to me. I think some people act like they "care" ( my many therapists, with good intentions who really want me to feel better) but it's starting to feel like they only "care" because that's how they were trained.

I feel like the bottom two lines in therapy is to…

1. Keep me alive no matter what.

2. Try to make me feel less sad, BUT if that doesn't work, then go back to #1 and keep me alive no matter what.

Basically, I feel like therapy is only there just to keep me alive, not to negotiate life. Sometimes I feel like I'd do better in therapy if I knew that I could open up and tell my therapist my actual plans, but obviously we all know how and where that would end up. So I suffer in silence, coming here to vent my frustrations with others who feel the same…… and unfortunately, we aren't a small group either. I've gotten more "therapy" (help in feeling better and feeling less alone with my thoughts and plans) over the past year on this site than I ever have with DECADES of therapy, with several different therapists! They all seem to have one underlying belief in that the patient must be keep alive… no matter what.

I feel like that suffering guy in the Metallica song/video from that movie, "One".

If therapy and laws would actually advance enough to ALLOW a chronically depressed person to make their OWN personal choices to end their life, I'm starting to believe people would actually SEEK therapy MORE, and become LESS suicidal and happier in life overall if only we were given the legal choice AND able to actually TALK about our sufferings in therapy without the risk of being admitted into a mental institution.

Sorry for ranting off topic a bit.

A lot of factors, two big ones are people being selfish and wanting to be socially accepted/liked. The idea that's taught to us in many ways from birth is to always carry on, life is precious and good, anyone who thinks differently is mistaken, mentally ill and/or doesn't know what's best for themselves.

Many people assume that someone who says they're suffering isn't going through anything worse than they are, it's mind over matter, "everything happens for a reason" and "they've been through hard times too". Surely they could do better or fix the problem.

Of course, they make these assumptions while knowing little to nothing about another person's life. It's constantly reinforced in many areas of society though, people are considered heroes for stopping another person's death, regardless of if that person was a stranger who they'll never see or check up on again. They'll still be labeled as a hero by a large group of people, while the one person who they caused pain can be ignored and never thought of.

Intractable suffering from physical causes isn't respected either, the cases that fit into a perfect box of "well-known disease + get diagnosed quickly + die quickly while still attempting every medical intervention" are given surface-level sympathy, though that's still based on others' desire to feel good about themselves.

The much, much larger group of people who experience prolonged suffering from things that don't fit this perfect list (rare conditions, non-lethal conditions, deciding to stop unhelpful medical interventions, just to name a few) are subject to the same treatment as those with purely mental suffering; assumption that their pain isn't valid and "bad enough", that they should force themselves to survive for as long as possible while undergoing every possible medical intervention, and that they don't know what's best for themselves.

Even though many of us here withstand levels of mental and physical pain that would have most people crying in a corner, the assumption will always be that they know better, that it's comparable to something they've experienced themselves.

Understanding how false that assumption is means accepting the world isn't innately good, life isn't innately precious, some things are just bad. A lot of people aren't willing to confront that.

Thank you for this.

 

[KillingPain267]

Some humans don't want to live, but forced to.

But ALL humans do NOT want to feel emotional or physical PAIN.

We are FORCED to live with our pain against our will.

I'm trying to use as little words as possible to get my point across. This just doesn't seem ethical. It feels corrupt and just cruel to those suffering in silence. Therapy will NOT fix me (I've tried it for years).

I understand there are people who actually get better with talk therapy and their lives improve. However, I'm not talking about this particular group of sufferers. I'm talking about the ones who've tried therapy for years (even trying different therapists with different personality types) who have life long, untreatable chronic depression for decades. The ones who've spent years in therapy with no success. The people you don't see in mental hospitals or in jails… I'm talking about a much larger group of people who simply want to end their suffering due to decades of incurable angst and suffering.

I can't imagine a few months of late stage cancer being any more painful than living with untreatable, unbearable depression. Why do we draw the line when it comes to MENTAL agony when so many patients are clearly NOT getting better with therapy?

My thoughts… Pain is Pain. Suffering is Suffering.

Your thoughts?

I see a heartbroken teddy bear such as myself, I instantly click on the post!

To answer your question (which is a good one), I think it's probably because
1. a death of one person causes mental pain for those left behind which are many (family and friends, a group of about 10-50 mourners) so they want to avoid the death or postpone it as long as possible to avoid their own mental suffering.
2. Doctors and others like to play savior, they get praise for "saving" a life and praise feels good. Helping to cure someone's pain is less sensational, less drastic, especially if their pain is reduced slowly.
3. Everyone is traumatized when they first learned about death as a kid, but everyone has to some degree suppressed the fact of inevitable death, so seeing someone die reminds them of their own mortality, and it has to be responded to.

As for mental versus physical suffering, I think mental suffering is seen as less real, more imagined because we used to believe in a soul. A soul, harboring all mental thought, is immaterial and thus not possible to measure even if itbwas strongly believed in due to theology and a culture that valued theology as a "science". Things emanating from an immaterial invisible source feels less real and must be believed to exist only by faith. Mix this with the scientific revolution where materialism budded forth and rejected the existence of a soul, and everything that was created by the soul was now relegated to something unprovable, unmeasurable. It's only recently, slowly, that psychology is trying to define and treat mental suffering from a materialist scientific standpoint. Things like ADHD and social anxiety were only taken seriously as late as the 80s. And they still have a hard time measuring it and treating it. But a person dying of liver or kidney failure is much more straight forward as far as science is concerned, whether that be in the 1500s or in 2025.

 

[Hotsackage]

Some humans don't want to live, but forced to.

But ALL humans do NOT want to feel emotional or physical PAIN.

We are FORCED to live with our pain against our will.

I'm trying to use as little words as possible to get my point across. This just doesn't seem ethical. It feels corrupt and just cruel to those suffering in silence. Therapy will NOT fix me (I've tried it for years).

I understand there are people who actually get better with talk therapy and their lives improve. However, I'm not talking about this particular group of sufferers. I'm talking about the ones who've tried therapy for years (even trying different therapists with different personality types) who have life long, untreatable chronic depression for decades. The ones who've spent years in therapy with no success. The people you don't see in mental hospitals or in jails… I'm talking about a much larger group of people who simply want to end their suffering due to decades of incurable angst and suffering.

I can't imagine a few months of late stage cancer being any more painful than living with untreatable, unbearable depression. Why do we draw the line when it comes to MENTAL agony when so many patients are clearly NOT getting better with therapy?

My thoughts… Pain is Pain. Suffering is Suffering.

Your thoughts?

Because most either improve, or leave. There are the minority who continue to live life in spite of their, disability, and a lot of those who do are questionable, from being on benefits I mean.

 

[divinemistress36]

I see a heartbroken teddy bear such as myself, I instantly click on the post!

To answer your question (which is a good one), I think it's probably because
1. a death of one person causes mental pain for those left behind which are many (family and friends, a group of about 10-50 mourners) so they want to avoid the death or postpone it as long as possible to avoid their own mental suffering.
2. Doctors and others like to play savior, they get praise for "saving" a life and praise feels good. Helping to cure someone's pain is less sensational, less drastic, especially if their pain is reduced slowly.
3. Everyone is traumatized when they first learned about death as a kid, but everyone has to some degree suppressed the fact of inevitable death, so seeing someone die reminds them of their own mortality, and it has to be responded to.

As for mental versus physical suffering, I think mental suffering is seen as less real, more imagined because we used to believe in a soul. A soul, harboring all mental thought, is immaterial and thus not possible to measure even if itbwas strongly believed in due to theology and a culture that valued theology as a "science". Things emanating from an immaterial invisible source feels less real and must be believed to exist only by faith. Mix this with the scientific revolution where materialism budded forth and rejected the existence of a soul, and everything that was created by the soul was now relegated to something unprovable, unmeasurable. It's only recently, slowly, that psychology is trying to define and treat mental suffering from a materialist scientific standpoint. Things like ADHD and social anxiety were only taken seriously as late as the 80s. And they still have a hard time measuring it and treating it. But a person dying of liver or kidney failure is much more straight forward as far as science is concerned, whether that be in the 1500s or in 2025.

Well said. Unpopular opinion here I believe in a soul. And trauma/mental illness disconnects us from our higher self. Thats why medication isnt alway effective that cant treat a broken soul

 

[FuneralCry]

I understand, it's just so cruel to me how suffering is seen as to force and prolong no matter what with no acceptance towards the personal choice to permanently cease existing. All I personally wish for is to permanently stop suffering, I just want to never suffer ever again with this cruel, torturous existence finally all gone and forgotten for me, I'd always prefer to not exist than suffer all for the sake of it in this existence I never would had chosen in the first place, I see so much cruelty in how I cannot just have a death like falling into an dreamless, eternal sleep.

 

[wiggy]

Some form of medical practice has existed and taken up a large part of humanity's mental bandwidth for as long as we have existed. And excluding the very incipient field of mental health, these practices have been extremely efficient. Ineffectiveness does not mean that there is a lack of earnest effort to reduce suffering.