Why does SN only have a reliability score of 6 according to PPeH

[JustOverIt]

I am most grateful!

Alright so here's a blob of relevant information, not in correct order unfortunately (perhaps I will clean this up later on). I'm really sorry about the quality. For some reason PNG's just won't upload.

So the majority of the information I have supplied is from firsthand discussions about user's SN ingestion. Eden2k, Minudah and Lunaemoth are all confimed to have ctb according to users whom have known them here (those people I do not know personally).

 

[Bentham]

Thanks, that's very helpful but wouldn't the meto counteract the vomiting?

PN recommends the meto and I believe it works, but I must admit also that I have no idea on which receptors (D2, 5HT3, NK-1, H1...) in the CTZ and GI track are affected by SN. I think one of the reasons why he recommends the meto is because it's one of general prescription drugs when the exact cause of nausea and vomiting (NV) is unknown. Actually, the NCCN (National Comprehensive Cancer Network) guidelines recommend the first choice of D2 antagonists such as meto in case of NV of unknown cause, then 5HT3 to be added. D2 antagonists seem a very good treatment for NV caused by toxic substance in stomach generally but afaik it's not highly effective when for example orally ingested opioid-induced NV is the case.

 

[JustOverIt]

Last one:

 

[Jessica-]

The rating is low because there have only been a small handful of monitored deaths in humans, so the unreliability is uncertain and not conclusive given the small amount of data. Like some people have said, there is also the risk of vomiting which raises the survival rate. Being discovered too soon can also lead to a full recovery. When exposed to air, SN pulls moisture out of the air and loses its lethal properties so that might also contribute to many non-fatal attempts. [1]

I have no doubts that SN is lethal, here are some toxicology reports on Sodium Nitrate. Nitrates are converted to nitrites in our digestive system.


Some reports that I found were interesting:

• /CASE REPORTS/ ... A patient with lethal course after ingestion of 25 g sodium nitrate was reported. After efficaciously treated with high doses of toluidine blue, hemodialysis and partial exchange transfusion the patient died 6 days after admission as a consequence for secondary pulmonary complications.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Sodium nitrate ... in the only reported instance of eye disturbance from ingestion, caused transitory blindness, deafness, speechlessness, and tetanic convulsions, but gradually recovery in a girl who took 16 grams.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Death and severe effects of nitrate ingestion are generally associated with doses above 10 g NO3-. Doses between 2 and 9 g NO3- have been reported to cause methemoglobinemia. These values correspond to 33 to 150 mg NO3-/kg. /Nitrate/

SN is also used to humanely control the feral pig population [1][2], 8 grams of sodium nitrite is enough kill a 100-pound pig . It is reported that an animal will feel faint and pass out, and then die in a humane manner after first being rendered unconscious. Here is a study regarding the humaneness and efficiency of the pig bait:
https://www.environment.gov.au/syst...-a530-f2e0c307a20c/files/pigs-imvs-report.pdf

• It is the opinion of the authors that the development of methaemoglobinaemia as a result of sodium nitrite ingestion leads to a state of unconsciousness without a prolonged preliminary excitatory state.
• The nitrite containing toxic baits fed to the pigs in this study were efficacious and resulted in an apparently humane death. Biochemical changes other than the rise in lactate and cortisol, were not different between test and control animals.

The PPHB also has one closely monitored case on an elderly woman, but video link seems to be down at the moment.

View attachment 10012

Anyways I wrote too much , I should really make a new thread about this. I'll be using the SN method because I am being monitored by people so I can not do anything suspicious or be away for long periods of time.

Many thanks for this but re your point on feral pigs, I think they severely lack the enzyme, methemoglobin reductase , which is used to counteract the effects of SN making their deaths much more peaceful. I think Exit International released an article on this but couldn't find it any more.

Last one:

Thanks so much for making the effort to compose all the info!

 

[Davy]

feral pigs, I think they severely lack the enzyme, methemoglobin reductase , which is used to counteract the effects of SN.

its kind of ironic how the chemical used to preserved ham turns out to be the biochemical weakness of a pig

 

[Jessica-]

its kind of ironic how the chemical used to preserved ham turns out to be the biochemical weakness of a pig

LOL, only good for dead pigs or to bestow deaths on them.

 

[ImSorryEmma]

its a government cover up that they are trying to discourage suicial people to use SN no but for real i dont know really my guess its some false readings or something

 

[Jen Erik]

Deleted, because I am alarmingly incoherent.

 

[DarkStar1]

I have read the PPeH and many posts on this forum. There's a lot of contradictory info on the reliability and reversability of SN. After reading this information I believe the reliability rating of SN at 6/10 was based on all conditions being met: taking metro/Dopamine blocking anti-emetic, Tagamet, and not being discovered. I could and hope I am wrong. I was planning on taking SN but am not sure at this point due to the reliability and potential brain damage from failed attempt.

 

[Psilo]

I believe the PPH dropped the reliability of SN from 7 to 6 out of 10 because of several factors:

1. It is reversible! There is an antidote for SN in contrary of SA and SC. So you can be saved if discovered. The antidote is Methylene blue.

2. SN taken all alone is unlikely to kill you! Because you will probably puke it out. Worse if that happens you have high chances to still be very conscious.
If you truly wish to end your life as peaceful as SN can be, you need:
Antiemetics, to avoid throwing up. Drinking SN is not the problem here, your body knows that SN is no good so it will make you sick and throw up.
Acid regulator, to enhance and accelerate the absorption of SN from your body.

3. Fast! Having an empty stomach is much better, because your body will process all of the SN.
So no last meal just before taking SN. Sorry!

4. Dosing! Ok here is the thing: elderly people have generally speaking weaker bodies than younger people. The old version of the PPH gave approximately 15g of SN, but I suspect this is more likely for elderly people. In the last stream (6th of April 2019) from PN, he mentioned that people generally take between 20 to 25g of SN (high assay/purity). This could be a dose adapted for healthy/young people.

5. Purity! It is advised to have a high purity SN, at least 99%. If the purity is not as high as this, it is logic that the dose taken has to be higher. Problem: impurities can potentially give side effects.

 

[Jessica-]

Many thanks for your reply, here are some of my thoughts, feel free to correct me if I am wrong as I am braindead most of the time.

It is reversible! There is an antidote for SN in contrary of SA and SC. So you can be saved if discovered. The antidote is Methylene blue.

Most methods are reversible eg. chloroquine, CO, amitriptyline, exit bag and surprisingly even N

SN taken all alone is unlikely to kill you! Because you will probably puke it out. Worse if that happens you have high chances to still be very conscious.
If you truly wish to end your life as peaceful as SN can be, you need:
Antiemetics, to avoid throwing up. Drinking SN is not the problem here, your body knows that SN is no good so it will make you sick and throw up.
Acid regulator, to enhance and accelerate the absorption of SN from your body.

Again that applies to other methods like amitriptyline, chloroquine , why is this only a relevant factor for SN? I would suggest that they would naturally assume that everyone follows the protocol they suggest in coming to the relevant score.

3. Fast! Having an empty stomach is much better, because your body will process all of the SN.
So no last meal just before taking SN. Sorry!

This would apply to nearly all other methods which involve the ingestion of poisons ( save for the ultra lethal stuff like cyanide, N). If they want fasting , why not just put it down as part of the protocol instead of lowering the score?

Dosing! Ok here is the thing: elderly people have generally speaking weaker bodies than younger people. The old version of the PPH gave approximately 15g of SN, but I suspect this is more likely for elderly people. In the last stream (6th of April 2019) from PN, he mentioned that people generally take between 20 to 25g of SN (high assay/purity). This could be a dose adapted for healthy/young people.

Why is this even a factor? When coming up with the score, do they not assume that people take the recommended dose. If it needs a higher dose for healthy young people, they can simply state it in the book. Afaik The does went up from 5g to 12g to 15g and now 20-25g.

Purity! It is advised to have a high purity SN, at least 99%. If the purity is not as high as this, it is logic that the dose taken has to be higher. Problem: impurities can potentially give side effects.

Any impurities would affect the results , why would this only apply to SN?

My guess from reading the PPeH multiple times plus other resources on SN is that the Final Exit simply DO NOT know about this method enough to give it a higher rating. The background to the addition of SA and SN to the PPeH under the chapter Inorganic Salts is that a dutch euthanasia group was proposing to offer an unnamed lethal inorganic salt to its members for a peaceful exit. Nitschke was guessing what it was and wanted to join in the action, he knew it was wither SN or SA, and amidst all interest in this easily accessible/lethal/ peaceful mysterious substance, he wrote a new chapter on the 2 said inorganic salts adding sodium cyanide to the mix. Originally, on his twitter he was saying that the dutch substance should be SN but it was later revealed to be SA. Now that the SN method has already been included in the book, he has to continue his research on it and keep updating the chapter. It seems the more they research the more they find SN to be not as promising as originally thought.

 

[Psilo]

Many thanks for your reply, here are some of my thoughts, feel free to correct me if I am wrong as I am braindead most of the time.



Most methods are reversible eg. chloroquine, CO, amitriptyline, exit bag and surprisingly even N



Again that applies to other methods like amitriptyline, chloroquine , why is this only a relevant factor for SN? I would suggest that they would naturally assume that everyone follows the protocol they suggest in coming to the relevant score.



This would apply to nearly all other methods which involve the ingestion of poisons ( save for the ultra lethal stuff like cyanide, N). If they want fasting , why not just put it down as part of the protocol instead of lowering the score?



Why is this even a factor? When coming up with the score, do they not assume that people take the recommended dose. If it needs a higher dose for healthy young people, they can simply state it in the book. Afaik The does went up from 5g to 12g to 15g and now 20-25g.



Any impurities would affect the results , why would this only apply to SN?

My guess from reading the PPeH multiple times plus other resources on SN is that the Final Exit simply DO NOT know about this method enough to give it a higher rating. The background to the addition of SA and SN to the PPeH under the chapter Inorganic Salts is that a dutch euthanasia group was proposing to offer an unnamed lethal inorganic salt to its members for a peaceful exit. Nitschke was guessing what it was and wanted to join in the action, he knew it was wither SN or SA, and amidst all interest in this easily accessible/lethal/ peaceful mysterious substance, he wrote a new chapter on the 2 said inorganic salts adding sodium cyanide to the mix. Originally, on his twitter he was saying that the dutch substance should be SN but it was later revealed to be SA. Now that the SN method has already been included in the book, he has to continue his research on it and keep updating the chapter. It seems the more they research the more they find SN to be not as promising as originally thought.

All the points I mentioned are valid, I don't made them up just like that.

I have to be honest, the PPH has a major flaw: nowhere NP explains how they come up to rate the reliability nor the peacefulness of each method.

Ok N is regarded as the premium EoL choice, it kills you in your sleep. It scores max at both.

Exit has only 6 cases in where they have monitored SN method very carefully, it is true that it is not much but for me it is very promising.

Again some points I mentioned were not in the PPH so what I did is only speculation about how they come up with the score.

The PPH is plain and simply incomplete at least for SN.

 

[JustOverIt]

Many thanks for your reply, here are some of my thoughts, feel free to correct me if I am wrong as I am braindead most of the time.



Most methods are reversible eg. chloroquine, CO, amitriptyline, exit bag and surprisingly even N



Again that applies to other methods like amitriptyline, chloroquine , why is this only a relevant factor for SN? I would suggest that they would naturally assume that everyone follows the protocol they suggest in coming to the relevant score.



This would apply to nearly all other methods which involve the ingestion of poisons ( save for the ultra lethal stuff like cyanide, N). If they want fasting , why not just put it down as part of the protocol instead of lowering the score?



Why is this even a factor? When coming up with the score, do they not assume that people take the recommended dose. If it needs a higher dose for healthy young people, they can simply state it in the book. Afaik The does went up from 5g to 12g to 15g and now 20-25g.



Any impurities would affect the results , why would this only apply to SN?

My guess from reading the PPeH multiple times plus other resources on SN is that the Final Exit simply DO NOT know about this method enough to give it a higher rating. The background to the addition of SA and SN to the PPeH under the chapter Inorganic Salts is that a dutch euthanasia group was proposing to offer an unnamed lethal inorganic salt to its members for a peaceful exit. Nitschke was guessing what it was and wanted to join in the action, he knew it was wither SN or SA, and amidst all interest in this easily accessible/lethal/ peaceful mysterious substance, he wrote a new chapter on the 2 said inorganic salts adding sodium cyanide to the mix. Originally, on his twitter he was saying that the dutch substance should be SN but it was later revealed to be SA. Now that the SN method has already been included in the book, he has to continue his research on it and keep updating the chapter. It seems the more they research the more they find SN to be not as promising as originally thought.

This is getting ridiculous. No matter how much information we throw at you, there will always be something to pick at. Please stop being cynical.

 

[Jessica-]

All the points I mentioned are valid, I don't made them up just like that.

I have to be honest, the PPH has a major flaw: nowhere NP explains how they come up to rate the reliability nor the peacefulness of each method.

Ok N is regarded as the premium EoL choice, it kills you in your sleep. It scores max at both.

Exit has only 6 cases in where they have monitored SN method very carefully, it is true that it is not much but for me it is very promising.

Again some points I mentioned were not in the PPH so what I did is only speculation about how they come up with the score.

The PPH is plain and simply incomplete at least for SN.

Agreed , the PPeH seems very wishy washy on SN.

This is getting ridiculous. No matter how much information we throw at you, there will always be something to pick at. Please stop being cynical.

I don't think it's ridiculous for having a discussion on a method I am interested in.

 

[snowman626]

Agreed , the PPeH seems very wishy washy on SN.


I don't think it's ridiculous for having a discussion on a method I am interested in.

im not confident in even N. i think the best way to make sure you ctb 100% is to stack methods on top of each other.

for myself i'll find a big national park and hike 5 hours deep into the woods, in the middle of a cold snowy winter. i'll jump into a river to wet my clothes, or wet my clothes with bottles of water. i'll bring N or if i can't find then SN will do. in the woods i'll find a good hiding spot, a cave or in a hidden spot like throwing myself into a big bush. then i'll drink the N or SN.

So this way i'll have 3 methods working for me at once.

1. the N or SN will kill me, if not
2. the hypothermia from being in wet clothes will kill me, if not
3. starvation/dehydration will kill me (nobody will find me for months or ever since im in the middle of nowhere in winter in a well hidden spot)

i believe this will give me 100% chance of ctb, not 99.9% but 100%. i don't want to do this in a hotel room not knowing wtf will actually happen and HOPING my N or SN is good, and HOPING that it really does what it's suppose to do, and if not paying for it with a lifetime of being paralysed or whatever.

 

[Jessica-]

im not confident in even N. i think the best way to make sure you ctb 100% is to stack methods on top of each other.

for myself i'll find a big national park and hike 5 hours deep into the woods, in the middle of a cold snowy winter. i'll jump into a river to wet my clothes, or wet my clothes with bottles of water. i'll bring N or if i can't find then SN will do. in the woods i'll find a good hiding spot, a cave or in a hidden spot like throwing myself into a big bush. then i'll drink the N or SN.

So this way i'll have 3 methods working for me at once.

1. the N or SN will kill me, if not
2. the hypothermia from being in wet clothes will kill me, if not
3. starvation/dehydration will kill me (nobody will find me for months or ever since im in the middle of nowhere in winter in a well hidden spot)

i believe this will give me 100% chance of ctb, not 99.9% but 100%. i don't want to do this in a hotel room not knowing wtf will actually happen and HOPING my N or SN is good, and HOPING that it really does what it's suppose to do, and if not paying for it with a lifetime of being paralysed or whatever.

I understand your thinking having 2 failed attempts under my belt. Best of luck!

 

[Karangel25]

The rating is low because there have only been a small handful of monitored deaths in humans, so the unreliability is uncertain and not conclusive given the small amount of data. Like some people have said, there is also the risk of vomiting which raises the survival rate. Being discovered too soon can also lead to a full recovery. When exposed to air, SN pulls moisture out of the air and loses its lethal properties so that might also contribute to many non-fatal attempts. [1]

I have no doubts that SN is lethal, here are some toxicology reports on Sodium Nitrate. Nitrates are converted to nitrites in our digestive system.


Some reports that I found were interesting:

• /CASE REPORTS/ ... A patient with lethal course after ingestion of 25 g sodium nitrate was reported. After efficaciously treated with high doses of toluidine blue, hemodialysis and partial exchange transfusion the patient died 6 days after admission as a consequence for secondary pulmonary complications.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Sodium nitrate ... in the only reported instance of eye disturbance from ingestion, caused transitory blindness, deafness, speechlessness, and tetanic convulsions, but gradually recovery in a girl who took 16 grams.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Death and severe effects of nitrate ingestion are generally associated with doses above 10 g NO3-. Doses between 2 and 9 g NO3- have been reported to cause methemoglobinemia. These values correspond to 33 to 150 mg NO3-/kg. /Nitrate/

SN is also used to humanely control the feral pig population [1][2], 8 grams of sodium nitrite is enough kill a 100-pound pig . It is reported that an animal will feel faint and pass out, and then die in a humane manner after first being rendered unconscious. Here is a study regarding the humaneness and efficiency of the pig bait:
https://www.environment.gov.au/syst...-a530-f2e0c307a20c/files/pigs-imvs-report.pdf

• It is the opinion of the authors that the development of methaemoglobinaemia as a result of sodium nitrite ingestion leads to a state of unconsciousness without a prolonged preliminary excitatory state.
• The nitrite containing toxic baits fed to the pigs in this study were efficacious and resulted in an apparently humane death. Biochemical changes other than the rise in lactate and cortisol, were not different between test and control animals.

The PPHB also has one closely monitored case on an elderly woman, but video link seems to be down at the moment.
At least it's quick.
View attachment 10012

Anyways I wrote too much , I should really make a new thread about this. I'll be using the SN method because I am being monitored by people so I can not do anything suspicious or be away for long periods of time.

 

[Theon]

I think, unfortunately, with any method there is risk. I want so badly to be certain that it's going to work, that it's going to be peaceful, that I won't have to deal with lifetime physical symptoms if it fails, but there just is no guarantee.

 

[I’vehadenough]

The rating is low because there have only been a small handful of monitored deaths in humans, so the unreliability is uncertain and not conclusive given the small amount of data. Like some people have said, there is also the risk of vomiting which raises the survival rate. Being discovered too soon can also lead to a full recovery. When exposed to air, SN pulls moisture out of the air and loses its lethal properties so that might also contribute to many non-fatal attempts. [1]

I have no doubts that SN is lethal, here are some toxicology reports on Sodium Nitrate. Nitrates are converted to nitrites in our digestive system.


Some reports that I found were interesting:

• /CASE REPORTS/ ... A patient with lethal course after ingestion of 25 g sodium nitrate was reported. After efficaciously treated with high doses of toluidine blue, hemodialysis and partial exchange transfusion the patient died 6 days after admission as a consequence for secondary pulmonary complications.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Sodium nitrate ... in the only reported instance of eye disturbance from ingestion, caused transitory blindness, deafness, speechlessness, and tetanic convulsions, but gradually recovery in a girl who took 16 grams.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Death and severe effects of nitrate ingestion are generally associated with doses above 10 g NO3-. Doses between 2 and 9 g NO3- have been reported to cause methemoglobinemia. These values correspond to 33 to 150 mg NO3-/kg. /Nitrate/

SN is also used to humanely control the feral pig population [1][2], 8 grams of sodium nitrite is enough kill a 100-pound pig . It is reported that an animal will feel faint and pass out, and then die in a humane manner after first being rendered unconscious. Here is a study regarding the humaneness and efficiency of the pig bait:
https://www.environment.gov.au/syst...-a530-f2e0c307a20c/files/pigs-imvs-report.pdf

• It is the opinion of the authors that the development of methaemoglobinaemia as a result of sodium nitrite ingestion leads to a state of unconsciousness without a prolonged preliminary excitatory state.
• The nitrite containing toxic baits fed to the pigs in this study were efficacious and resulted in an apparently humane death. Biochemical changes other than the rise in lactate and cortisol, were not different between test and control animals.

The PPHB also has one closely monitored case on an elderly woman, but video link seems to be down at the moment.

View attachment 10012

Anyways I wrote too much , I should really make a new thread about this. I'll be using the SN method because I am being monitored by people so I can not do anything suspicious or be away for long periods of time.

Look at case #2. She went deaf and blind from ingesting it and still stayed alive
Fuck that

 

[littlelady774]

Look at case #2. She went deaf and blind from ingesting it and still stayed alive
Fuck that

I'm a bit confused though.. was this sodium nitrate or nitrite?.. There is a significant difference

 

[Saed]

Look at case #2. She went deaf and blind from ingesting it and still stayed alive
Fuck that

True,but it is described as "transitory",in other words,it was temporary.