Why does SN only have a reliability score of 6 according to PPeH

[Jessica-]

SN was ( and may still be my method). IIRC it used to be scored higher on the reliability scale. Why was the score revised to only 6 in the latest PPeH?

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Because 60% of the time, it works every time. That's half a joke and half a reality. I'm certainly not making light of it. In truth, the effectiveness of SN in killing someone cannot be known because there hasn't been clinical trials on humans for obvious reasons. The score or 6/10 seems to be made up. It still seems fairly lethal, but.... It's not guaranteed. Knowing this hasn't helped me, but it's at least the truth.

 

[JustOverIt]

It is ONLY a 6 because it can be reversed and because there aren't many documented reports of monitored deaths

 

[Jessica-]

It is ONLY a 6 because it can be reversed and because there aren't many documented reports of monitored deaths

We can continue here without derailing the other thread.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...ook-march-24-2019-revision.14416/#post-285579

 

[JustOverIt]

Because 60% of the time, it works every time. That's half a joke and half a reality. I'm certainly not making light of it. In truth, the effectiveness of SN in killing someone cannot be known because there hasn't been clinical trials on humans for obvious reasons. The score or 6/10 seems to be made up. It still seems fairly lethal, but.... It's not guaranteed. Knowing this hasn't helped me, but it's at least the truth.

I know you were joking by that is definitely NOT the case. If you take 20-25g of SN with all the anti-emetics and anti-acids it is very likely that you will die; not 60% of the time, everytime.

 

[Jessica-]

The score or 6/10 seems to be made up. It still seems fairly lethal, but.... It's not guaranteed. Knowing this hasn't helped me, but it's at least the truth.

It seems really arbitrary but why would they lower it from a 7 or 8( I can't remember exactly, sorry)

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

I know you were joking by that is definitely NOT the case. If you take 20-25g of SN with all the anti-emetics and anti-acids it is very likely that you will die; not 60% of the time, everytime.

I agree with the confidence. SN seems lethal. I'm not really joking about the estimate. If you look up poisoning statistics on lostallhope.com you'll notice the lower odds. For all we know it's 40% or 80%. Saying it's guaranteed isn't true. Anecdotal evidence on here suggests some have survived large doses. Maybe they were lying, but... How could you know?

 

[JustOverIt]

I agree with the confidence. SN seems lethal. I'm not really joking about the estimate. If you look up poisoning statistics on lostallhope.com you'll notice the lower odds. For all we know it's 40% or 80%. Saying it's guaranteed isn't true. Anecdotal evidence on here suggests some have survived large doses. Maybe they were lying, but... How could you know?

What poisoning statistics are these? For people that have taken exactly the right dose and exactly the right medications? Or just much smaller doses of SN without any of the assisting medications? Lmao, I definitely can't know if people were legit at all. Yes I am aware but I have been around for nearly all of them and ALL of them have failed because of either they didnt follow the correct process or they were found.

I don't understand people's distrust in reasonably truthful information. This is a suicide forum, you can't really be too picky given the serious lack of options.

 

[Jessica-]

@JustOverIt , while you claim to be through and objective, you have failed to provide a shred of evidence to substantiate your claims. Can you please provide some links?

 

[JustOverIt]

@JustOverIt , while you claim to be through and objective, you have failed to provide a shred of evidence to substantiate your claims. Can you please provide some links?

Please look for them yourself, there is a tonne of information on this forum about it. It is not my fault if you distrust people. I'm not about convincing people, just about giving them reasonably trusting information. People are going to make their minds up on their own either way.

 

[Jessica-]

Please look for them yourself, there is a tonne of information on this forum about it. It is not my fault if you distrust people. I'm not about convincing people, just about giving them reasonably trusting information. People are going to make their minds up on their own either way.

How much do you trust accounts written by complete strangers on a suicide forum?

 

[JustOverIt]

How much do you trust accounts written by complete strangers on a suicide forum?

That is true we are all strangers here so I understand your reluctance. Though I hope my presence and contributions to it can affect your trust somehow.

 

[Jessica-]

That is true we are all strangers here so I understand your reluctance. Though I hope my presence and contributions to it can affect your trust somehow.

You would really instill confidence if you can provide some links to your claims.

 

[JustOverIt]

You would really instill confidence if you can provide some links to your claims.

Some of the claims I make are made by common sense from the information available to me through Nitschke's PPEH and livestreams + also from some case reports and one or two articles: I do not claim to have all/any of the answers just educated opinions from scowering this method heavily, like I have said. I am well aware that those case reports and articles on this forum can be scrutinized to hell so feel free to do so.

It is our OWN jobs to instill confidence in ourselves if we so choose to. Not that of someone else's. My information is to my own benefit and that of whoever else is receptive to information that makes some sense I guess.

 

[Jessica-]

Some of the claims I make are made by common sense made from the information available to me through Nitschke's PPEH and livestreams + also from some case reports and one or two articles: I do not claim to have all/any of the answers just educated opinions from scowering this method heavily, like I have said. I am well aware that those case reports and articles on this forum can be scrutinized to hell so feel free to do so.

At one point, you claimed that SN is the second most reliable method, how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[JustOverIt]

At one point, you claimed that SN is the second most reliable method, how did you come to that conclusion?

Given that its the second method with the most solid information attached to it.

It goes N 100% guaranteed death over 1000's of monitored cases. Then SN, 6 monitored deaths.

Use whatever vocabulary you want to use.

 

[Bentham]

It seems really arbitrary but why would they lower it from a 7 or 8( I can't remember exactly, sorry)

"For Nitrite, a larger quantity is needed, vomiting risk greater, and reliability is a little less, R=6."
in Mar. 2019 where PN said "[v]omiting is possible though".

"For Nitrite, a larger quantity is needed, and reliability is a little less, R=7."
in Oct. 2018 where he said "[v]omiting is unlikely."

 

[JustOverIt]

Ah I see, that's also why.

 

[Jessica-]

Given that its the second method with the most solid information attached to it.

It goes N 100% guaranteed death over 1000's of monitored cases. Then SN, 6 monitored deaths.

Have you not heard of cyanide, fentanyl, firearms, jumping from height or even chloroquine ( where a report was done that all 50 patients died with 2-3 hrs)

 

[JustOverIt]

Have you not heard of cyanide, fentanyl, firearms, jumping from height or even chloroquine ( where a report was done that all 50 patients died with 2-3 hrs)

Well what are we talking about? Effectiveness or peacefulness? I should have written that SN is the second most reported peaceful method. Or third or fourth or fifth like does it matter? It's reportedly peaceful.

 

[Jessica-]

"For Nitrite, a larger quantity is needed, vomiting risk greater, and reliability is a little less, R=6."
in Mar. 2019 where PN said "[v]omiting is possible though".

"For Nitrite, a larger quantity is needed, and reliability is a little less, R=7."
in Oct. 2018 where he said "[v]omiting is unlikely."

Thanks, that's very helpful but wouldn't the meto counteract the vomiting?

Well what are we talking about? Effectiveness or peacefulness? I should have written that SN is the second most reported peaceful method. Or third or fourth or fifth like does it matter? It's reportedly peaceful.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/welp-sn.14528/#post-283617

According to you above, in terms of lethality.

 

[JustOverIt]

According to you above, in terms of lethality.

Alright yup, on second thoughts not a 100% solid point. You caught me out..jesus..

 

[Jessica-]

Dude why are we even arguing?

We are only discussing whether my current method of choice ( due to lack of means) is peaceful and effective, the more info we share , the better for us and others considering this method. Given you have so much faith in this method, it would be good to pick your brain.

 

[JustOverIt]

We are only discussing whether my current method of choice ( due to lack of means) is peaceful and effective, the more info we share , the better for us and others considering this method. Given you have so much faith in this method, it would be good to pick your brain.

Right, well if that is the case I would ask if you would try to phrase your responses a bit less invasively so I don't misinterpret you as being unnecessarily abrupt. Feel free to pick away.

 

[Jessica-]

Right, well if that is the case just try to phrase your responses a bit less invasively so I don't misinterpret you being unnecessarily abrupt. Feel free to pick away.

ok, my apologies!

Could you kindly provide some credible evidence to your claim that the SN method is both peaceful and reliable. Preferably with some links? This would greatly assist me and others considering the method given you have in- depth knowledge on the subject. Thanks!

 

[JustOverIt]

ok, my apologies!

Could you kindly provide some credible evidence to your claim that the SN method is both peaceful and reliable. Preferably with some links? This would great assist me and others considering the method given you have in- depth knowledge on the subject. Thanks!

Haha, no I don't mean that much sorry. Ahh the joys of communicating over text, so much is left to interpretation. Please give me a few minutes I guess while I gather all the information I have used to back my opinion of the SN method with.

This may not in any way convince you the same way it has me.

Note: So apparently PNG's aren't able to be uploaded, give me a sec to convert to jpg.

 

[Jessica-]

Please give me a few minutes I guess while I gather all the information I have used to back my opinion of the SN method with.

I am most grateful!

 

[Darkhole]

You would really instill confidence if you can provide some links to your claims.

This forum is over a year old, if you want to know for yourself then start digging, go through the user discussion thread, sn megathread and consider taking Philip Nitschke at his word. He calls SN the poor man's Nembutal, it's rated a 6 because of how easily it can be reversed- unlike the other inorganic salts. There's a fine line between skepticism and cynicism and I'm afraid you're leaning towards the latter.

 

[Jessica-]

There's a fine line between skepticism and cynicism and I'm afraid you're leaning towards the latter.

I am sorry you think that way. I am extra careful as I have followed the PPeH to the T in my attempt with chloroquine and obviously failed. You can call me what you like.

 

[Davy]

The rating is low because there have only been a small handful of monitored deaths in humans, so the unreliability is uncertain and not conclusive given the small amount of data. Like some people have said, there is also the risk of vomiting which raises the survival rate. Being discovered too soon can also lead to a full recovery. When exposed to air, SN pulls moisture out of the air and loses its lethal properties so that might also contribute to many non-fatal attempts. [1]

I have no doubts that SN is lethal, here are some toxicology reports on Sodium Nitrate. Nitrates are converted to nitrites in our digestive system.

https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+726

Some reports that I found were interesting:

• /CASE REPORTS/ ... A patient with lethal course after ingestion of 25 g sodium nitrate was reported. After efficaciously treated with high doses of toluidine blue, hemodialysis and partial exchange transfusion the patient died 6 days after admission as a consequence for secondary pulmonary complications.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Sodium nitrate ... in the only reported instance of eye disturbance from ingestion, caused transitory blindness, deafness, speechlessness, and tetanic convulsions, but gradually recovery in a girl who took 16 grams.
• /CASE REPORTS/ Death and severe effects of nitrate ingestion are generally associated with doses above 10 g NO3-. Doses between 2 and 9 g NO3- have been reported to cause methemoglobinemia. These values correspond to 33 to 150 mg NO3-/kg. /Nitrate/

SN is also used to humanely control the feral pig population [1][2], 8 grams of sodium nitrite is enough kill a 100-pound pig . It is reported that an animal will feel faint and pass out, and then die in a humane manner after first being rendered unconscious. Here is a study regarding the humaneness and efficiency of the pig bait:
https://www.environment.gov.au/syst...-a530-f2e0c307a20c/files/pigs-imvs-report.pdf

• It is the opinion of the authors that the development of methaemoglobinaemia as a result of sodium nitrite ingestion leads to a state of unconsciousness without a prolonged preliminary excitatory state.
• The nitrite containing toxic baits fed to the pigs in this study were efficacious and resulted in an apparently humane death. Biochemical changes other than the rise in lactate and cortisol, were not different between test and control animals.

The PPHB also has one closely monitored case on an elderly woman, but video link seems to be down at the moment.



Anyways I wrote too much , I should really make a new thread about this. I'll be using the SN method because I am being monitored by people so I can not do anything suspicious or be away for long periods of time.