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JesiBel

JesiBel

protoTYPE:4rp14
Dec 5, 2024
691
No offense, but women are always the ones left in charge of the family and are expected to endure everything in silence (unless you're a "dramatic b-tch"), as if it were their obligation and duty. Men can disappear or rebuild their lives without being judged. Those who "care for and protect" even when they are destroyed or collapsed are always women.
 
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Parasitism

Parasitism

Member
May 27, 2025
44
Because of wording. Most 'suicide' attempts are a cry for help. The person is signaling that they need more help from family and/or mental health services. I have met women that were determined to die and they are dead. I have met men who were determined to die and they are dead. Both of those successful groups used one of very few successful methods. Men more often than women do not wanting to be saved. Most people, including men, do want to be saved. Suicide attempts and cries for help are both valid experiences.
 
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TheVanishingPoint

TheVanishingPoint

Member
May 20, 2025
71
That theory sounds like men commonly feel the urge to use some emotional tampon, but hesitate to do so because they were taught that men are not supposed to use tampons. While this may be true for some men, I don't relate to such explanation at all, and I have severe doubts that the majority of men would do.

Firstly, crying with tears is not the only possible form of expressing high degree of unsatisfaction with something. From time to time I fall into the state of anger or rage, but I almost never want to cry (can't even vaguely recall when I cried the last time). This has literally nothing to do with suppression of tears out of shame.

When I'm in shitty mood, I genuinely don't feel the need in any kind of emotional support. I don't seek for someone's shoulder because I believe that this won't help me at all rather than because of hesitation originating from fears to be compromised or something like that. I genuinely don't give a fuck about whether people around me feel pity for my situation or not, and expression of their empathy has no any value for me. Hearing platitudes like "I'm sorry about your troubles" or "I wish you well" only annoys me. I highly value conversations that include exchange of valuable or interesting information, but I have an intrinsic aversion to platitudes and thereby conversations consisting of sharing platitudes.

I can ask for help if I feel like my request can be productive in the practical sense, but I never do this in the form of crying or whining for gaining better attitude.

I guess, pep talks are helpful mostly for suggestible people, while highly developed critical mindset makes you consider such talks with notable skepticism. From my observations, in average, critical mindset is more developed in men than in women, and this may partially explain why men are less prone to seeking for such a kind of "help".
I believe your response, though articulate, is actually one of the clearest signs that the previous message struck a chord with you. And I say this without irony, but as an observation of a dynamic we all share: when something doesn't concern us, we usually don't feel the need to disprove it.

Your urge to clarify, to firmly reject any notion of cultural conditioning, doesn't come across to me as proof of its absence. On the contrary, it seems to be a very coherent reaction—one shaped by the very social structure that teaches us to treat vulnerability as a design flaw.

You say you don't seek a shoulder, that empathy bothers you, that you don't cry. Yet you take the time to write a detailed response to a theme you claim doesn't apply to you. That alone suggests there is something more complex within you than your rational tone lets on.

This is not about judging those who seek comfort or those who don't. It's about recognizing that the way a man responds to pain is often already shaped by what he was taught he must be. Not everyone is suggestible. But even the belief that showing vulnerability is useless, annoying, or "less intelligent" is itself a suggestion—just one that's older, and better disguised as clarity.

Perhaps one day we'll understand that our humanity isn't something to defend with force, but to recognize in silence—even in gestures we don't understand. And maybe then, there'll be no need to justify ourselves, nor to fight back against a sentence, just because it touched something too close to the bone.
 
Intoxicated

Intoxicated

M
Nov 16, 2023
837
You say you don't seek a shoulder, that empathy bothers you, that you don't cry. Yet you take the time to write a detailed response to a theme you claim doesn't apply to you. That alone suggests there is something more complex within you than your rational tone lets on.
I don't get your logic here. Criticism of possible or apparent fallacies can be entertaining on its own like a chess game, and this entertainment may be worth the time spent on it.
This is not about judging those who seek comfort or those who don't. It's about recognizing that the way a man responds to pain is often already shaped by what he was taught he must be. Not everyone is suggestible. But even the belief that showing vulnerability is useless, annoying, or "less intelligent" is itself a suggestion—just one that's older, and better disguised as clarity.
Some people (including myself) simply don't find any relief in venting about own problems, receiving condolences, and pep talks in the first place, contrary to how such things may work for others. Of course, if there is a concern that opening may lead to even worse situation (like detaining in a psych ward), this doesn't add attractiveness of frank conversations on top of their inability to improve the current circumstances.
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
4,887
I think it´s the result of evolution. Compared to men women have to take more care of themselves due to their built-in incubator and the long gestation period. If 80% of the male population risk their lives and sacrifice themselves for the survival of the woman and brood, the population will survive. If 80% of the female population is killed, the population will very likely die out.
Today males still live more risky than females, more than 80% of the murderes are males. So it is not surprising that about 75% of the suicides are committed by males.
Yeah, I have doubts about this having to do with evolution.
 
TheVanishingPoint

TheVanishingPoint

Member
May 20, 2025
71
Yeah, I have doubts about this having to do with evolution.
Masculinity is not natural. It is a construct. A performance. A rulebook written by power. There is no credible scientific evidence to support the claim that men are biologically less emotional, more rational, or more self-controlled than women. Evolution does not dictate stoicism, nor does it assign emotional silence to male bodies. The belief that men are emotionally limited by nature has been dismantled by decades of research in psychology, neuroscience, and anthropology. A comprehensive meta-analysis by Chaplin and Aldao (2013), covering 166 studies and over 21,000 children, found no consistent biological foundation for emotional differences between boys and girls. Emotional expression was context-dependent, shaped by social and relational environments rather than sex. In early life, boys and girls display comparable emotional responses; divergence begins only under the pressure of cultural expectations. The American Psychological Association (2018) states unequivocally that "traditional masculinity ideology"—characterized by emotional restriction, dominance, and toughness—is not an innate or natural condition. Rather, it is a cultural construct that harms mental health, correlating with increased depression, substance use, and relational difficulties. These are not adaptive traits from evolution; they are consequences of emotional deprivation enforced by gender norms. Anthropological literature offers further evidence. Margaret Mead and later cultural anthropologists have documented widely varying forms of masculinity across time and societies. Some cultures honor male emotional expression—crying, vulnerability, affection—as signs of spiritual maturity. The idea of one fixed masculine essence is not only unscientific; it is historically and culturally false. Neuroscientist Lise Eliot (2009) argues in Pink Brain, Blue Brain that most brain differences between sexes are minor and exaggerated by social conditioning. The plasticity of the brain means that what appears innate is often learned. Emotional literacy in men is not biologically limited—it is structurally underdeveloped due to lack of support and modeling during childhood and adolescence. The condition known as alexithymia, more prevalent in men, is often cited as evidence of emotional deficiency. In fact, it is strongly associated with social learning deficits, trauma, and cultural disincentives for introspection—not with genetic sex differences (Levant et al., 2009). Boys raised in emotionally restrictive environments learn to survive by disconnecting from language that names their pain. Masculinity, as enforced in many modern societies, is not a neutral identity—it is a disciplinary system. It teaches boys, from the earliest years, to amputate parts of themselves to earn belonging. To replace empathy with control. To trade emotional complexity for social approval. That is not nature. That is training. To say that "men are naturally less emotional" is not only untrue—it is a politically functional myth, designed to sustain power structures that benefit from emotional suppression, detachment, and control. Masculinity is not a fact of biology. It is a wound that learned to walk upright.


---

📚 References (APA format)
American Psychological Association. (2018). APA Guidelines for Psychological Practice with Boys and Men.
Chaplin, T. M., & Aldao, A. (2013). Gender differences in emotion expression in children: A meta-analytic review. Psychological Bulletin, 139(4), 735–765.
Eliot, L. (2009). Pink Brain, Blue Brain: How Small Differences Grow Into Troublesome Gaps—and What We Can Do About It.
Levant, R. F., Hall, R. J., & Rankin, T. J. (2009). Male alexithymia: A review of recent research. Journal of Men's Health, 6(2), 127–136.
Mead, M. (1935). Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies.
No offense, but women are always the ones left in charge of the family and are expected to endure everything in silence (unless you're a "dramatic b-tch"), as if it were their obligation and duty. Men can disappear or rebuild their lives without being judged. Those who "care for and protect" even when they are destroyed or collapsed are always women.
The dominance of men over women—what we call patriarchy—is not a primordial fact of humanity but a precise historical construction. Paleolithic societies, as shown by archaeological and anthropological studies (Marija Gimbutas, Riane Eisler, Gerda Lerner), were largely egalitarian, lacking rigid gender hierarchies, organized around sharing rather than ownership. The figure of the Mother Goddess reflects a time when the feminine held a central, not subordinate, value. The real turning point came with the agricultural revolution, between 10,000 and 8,000 years ago, when the accumulation of resources, private property, and inheritance made the control of the female body essential. Thus, patriarchal structures were born. As demonstrated by Gerda Lerner in The Creation of Patriarchy and Silvia Federici in Caliban and the Witch, women were reduced to reproductive vessels and inserted into systems of lineage and ownership. The first complex civilizations—Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, India—reinforced this hierarchy with laws, religions, and moral codes. But we must be clear: although men held social dominance, the ancient male was not yet the cold, emotionally amputated figure we know today. Homeric heroes wept openly; Odysseus embraced enemies, Hector kissed his child before dying, Achilles screamed in grief for Patroclus. In Rome, virtus included pietas, compassion, and duty toward family. In precolonial African cultures, as explored by anthropologists like Ifi Amadiume and Cheikh Anta Diop, masculinity was often part of a spiritual and communal equilibrium, not isolated and self-enclosed. The emotionally repressive, hyper-rational, productivist masculinity is a much more recent creation, born during the modern era, between the Industrial Revolution and the Victorian age. As shown by historian John Tosh and sociologist Raewyn Connell in Masculinities, the 19th century reshaped manhood to serve the needs of the state, factory, and empire. Men were expected to be disciplined, hardworking, competitive, never weak, never dependent. In Victorian England especially, any emotional softness was deemed a moral fault: tenderness became feminine, crying shameful, gentleness a sign of decay. This model was then exported through colonialism and globalized in the 20th century through mass media. Cinema, advertising, schools, and politics constructed the ideal man as silent, invulnerable, dominant. As neuroscientist Lise Eliot notes in Pink Brain, Blue Brain, there is no neurological basis for these differences: male and female brains are nearly identical at birth, and the differences that arise are the result of social conditioning. The American Psychological Association (APA Guidelines for Psychological Practice with Boys and Men, 2018) explicitly states that traditional masculinity ideology is a social construct, not a natural expression. This ideology—based on strength, control, emotional suppression, and dominance—is linked to higher rates of depression, addiction, suicide, and relational dysfunction. The condition known as alexithymia, often cited as biological, is in fact the result of environments where boys are never taught to recognize or name their emotions (Levant et al., 2009, Journal of Men's Health). The modern man is a product of training: severed from his inner world in order to be useful, obedient, and efficient. But this figure is not eternal: it was born in history, and in history it can end. Male dominance may be ancient, but repressive masculinity is modern. It did not begin with man—it began with machines. It did not begin in the blood—it began with discipline.
 
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sanction

sanction

sanctioned
Mar 15, 2019
633
I guess men are just more daring in general, in certain physical ways?

Otherwise probably because it's more stressful to be a man, in my opinion

Men need to play the role of being brave and strong... be the provider, protector, and leader

And when a man finds it difficult to maintain that role or appearance, society either makes them be perceived as weak, or of less value and appealing

Being a man is a competitive sport. At times, you're competing against other strong and aggressive alpha males, which is exhausting

Need to constantly play the role of a strong survivor, making it difficult to share sensitive feelings. Often just keeping all the tough feelings and emotions to themselves, leading to harsh breaking points
 
D

Dejected 55

Specialist
May 7, 2025
302
I haven't seen a lot of evidence in the world that women really are more supporting of other women than men are of men.

Men will compete with other men to have the money and toys and power and whatnot... and it is perhaps more obvious in the ways men compete... but women are competitive too... and women will tear down another woman in a heartbeat.

The patriarchy would be harder to maintain, for instance, if all the women truly supported each other more than men support other men. We are roughly 50/50 split men/women in the average population.

When the "me too" movement exploded a few years back... it became quite obvious that there were a lot of women as well as men who were complicit in covering up abuse scandals over the years. Whenever someone comes out against their abuser, she is just as likely to be doubted and insulted by women as men. Watch people, tell me this doesn't happen.

As a kid growing up I was exposed more to boys, and saw the crap boys do... and I started thinking girls were better than boys, they were above that sort of stuff... backstabbing and competing and fighting and pushing others down to get to a place of power... but as I got older, I became disillusioned to find women were every bit as capable of all the horrible than men are. We are all people and flawed in much the same ways. Sometimes it manifests differently in our society because of other structures in place... but I've seen no real evidence that supports women being more emotional than men or women being less capable of hate and fighting and war than men. Put people in a room men or women and watch them divide and conquer. Sometimes it manifests differently, like different fighting styles, but the dividing and backstabbing and fighting happens, regardless of gender.

So, on topic... I see no evidence that women are more supportive of other women's mental health than men are of other men. BUT both men and women do seem to respond differently to men being vulnerable than they do women. As in... men get less excuses and offers of concern or understanding. I'm not sure women actually get any more real help, though, than men... they just get the illusion of it more. If that makes sense.
 
Z-A

Z-A

Let me go
Mar 3, 2024
351
Lack of empathy towards men makes them more alone & ignored. No reliance = definitive decision.
 

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