Venting Why can't people IRL be honest about things?

[TAW122]

This is sort of a vent, but also partial discussion as well. Throughout my entire life, I've always been fed lies and platitudes. One of the many, being "If you put your mind to it, you can do it!". Sure, I guess if it is to encourage a kid or some teenager to persevere and keep going to reach his/her goal, thats another thing, but to an adult, it's horseshit. Also, when people tell me that I am capable of making friends, succeeding in the dating world (which I stopped caring over a decade ago due to it not being worth it and also knowing that I haven't a snowball's chance in hell, thanks to ancestry and genetics (Asian American male) so I'm fucked in the already rigged dating game), and how I would find some good job or how hot the job market is for x field blah, it just fucking pisses me off. These dumbshits have their heads so far up their asses that they don't know even acknowledge that they're wrong.

If you tell those people that they're wrong, they turn around and get mad at you for being negative, not trying hard enough, or just otherwise being difficult. I'm fucking sick and goddamn tired of being lied to, given false hope, sold platitudes (which does nothing for me), and being the their proverbial optimism bag for their rhetoric and virtue signaling. They just do that shit to get a fucking rise out of their ego-dicks. Seriously, if they have nothing good to offer, nothing constructive or helpful, then they can shut the fuck up and get the hell away. Fuck the ones who think they own me and can control my free will, seriously fuck them the hardest. They can take their fucking bullshit values and shove it far into their asses.

At least the thing about pessimistic people and people here is that we are honest, we won't pretend something is good or hopeful when it isn't (especially if there is good evidence for it). We also don't make false promises or give false hope and we are direct when it comes to addressing things. In other words, we are fucking brutally honest and won't give shitty advice or shitty platitudes.

I guess, my question is why the goddamn hell can't people just be fucking honest when it comes to life things, but instead cling onto the optimistic bias bullshit? It doesn't fucking serve any real purpose other than 1up'ing their own egos and feeling good for pretending to give a shit. I don't know, but why?

 

[Xerxes]

Having pent up suicidal thoughts and idealations and no one to turn to in real life without being institutionalized is the reason why I'm glad this community exists. Last week I was on edge and my wife says, "why be sad for?" Even the most supportive people in life can't even began to empathize with the mind of a suicidal or depressed person unless they been there before and gone through the routine.

One of my triggers is now when they call me "mentally lazy" for not wanting to just snap into happy mode. Also nice to know another asian-american on here. It's true than ancestry and culture doesn't view suicide and depression as an illness, but they view it as pure laziness. No wonder so many young asian adults go off the deep end because of the old way of thinking.

 

[vvvvv]

There's a quote from a play by Henrik Ibsen:

Tar De livsløgnen fra et gjennomsnittsmenneske, så tar De lykken fra ham med det samme

Which loosely translates to "If you take delusion from the average man, you take his happiness at the same time"

Nobody wants to face it. Everyone will pick comfortable lie over harsh truth any day, cliché or not.

 

[TAW122]

Having pent up suicidal thoughts and idealations and no one to turn to in real life without being institutionalized is the reason why I'm glad this community exists. Last week I was on edge and my wife says, "why be sad for?" Even the most supportive people in life can't even began to empathize with the mind of a suicidal or depressed person unless they been there before and gone through the routine.

One of my triggers is now when they call me "mentally lazy" for not wanting to just snap into happy mode. Also nice to know another asian-american on here. It's true than ancestry and culture doesn't view suicide and depression as an illness, but they view it as pure laziness. No wonder so many young asian adults go off the deep end because of the old way of thinking.

As for the culture viewing suicide and depression as pure laziness, I suppose those are reasons that other AA's share for wanting to ctb, but for me, it's not the reason at all, but other reasons. Personally, I don't view suicide and depression as illnesses, but rather the result of a twisted, sick society and personal shortcomings with no good solution (which suicide can be a possible solution). Depression itself (aside from clinical depression which many people like to over-diagnose and plaster over just about all cases) is often the result of shitty circumstances in life and the things that an individual are unable to come to terms with or overcome and succeed.

 

[Jen Erik]

Some people deal in platitudes because to admit that some situations are utterly irredeemable is just too destabilizing to their view of the world, or to their sense of identity and place in the world.

 

[TAW122]

There's a quote from a play by Henrik Ibsen:

Tar De livsløgnen fra et gjennomsnittsmenneske, så tar De lykken fra ham med det samme

Which loosely translates to "If you take delusion from the average man, you take his happiness at the same time"

Nobody wants to face it. Everyone will pick comfortable lie over harsh truth any day, cliché or not.

This is a really good quote. I like how some writers, artists, and other creative minds tend to have golden quotes that really apply to many facets of life.

Some people deal in platitudes because to admit that some situations are utterly irredeemable is just too destabilizing to their view of the world, or to their sense of identity and place in the world.

I guess they enjoy being delusional then, even if it is detrimental to the person that they are addressing?

 

[Jen Erik]

I guess they enjoy being delusional then, even if it is detrimental to the person that they are addressing?

Self-preservation manifests in so many fucked up, ugly ways. Some people will go to great lengths to maintain their status quo – just by instinct, I think. I hate this about dealing with others, because it's nearly impossible to tell if someone is deliberately being harmful or if they are subconsciously acting out some fight-or-flight response to protect their sense of self.

 

[The Blackangel]

It's an ego trip. they think that since we're not all peppy and smiling all the god damn time, that we need their help, and once they offer it, that makes them the good people, and it doesn't matter what happens to us. Their job is done, and they'll be rewarded for trying to save a life after we CTB. Like they'll be nominated for a fucking Nobel peace prize or some shit. They give us this line of "it's always darkest before the dawn" or some other fucked up cliché. As if that shit actually works. Thanks but I'll go with the "2 birds with one stone" cliché. CTB out in the woods and feed the wild animals at the same time. That's a win-win.

 

[rabid_squirrel]

I'm thinking it has something to do with cognitive dissonance.When you are having a good life,you are happy,your actions and thoughts will conform to that.You can't be pessimistic and optimistic at the same time.Like Jen Erik said, "it's their view of the world, or to their sense of identity and place in the world."

 

[onewayroad]

You're right. What you are talking about is essentially people telling you to have hope, and I have something to add regarding hope.

Hope can be a source of strength or a deadly poison.

It took me a long time to realize this, but it's fairly important. The worst manias and psychoses that I have suffered in my life have all been because I have had hope when I shouldn't have.

The other problem with hope is that even when you know in some circumstance it is a deadly poison, it can be difficult to let go of hope. And conversely when it could be a source of strength it can be difficult to have hope. I wish I could just eliminate hope entirely from my psyche and live in the moment.

 

[worldexploder]

Couldn't agree more! These platitudes have been bombarding my ear drums since I was a child. So sick of em! Just yesterday I was having a discussion with my uncle on how I precieve life. He says "if you focus on negative thoughts you will be miserable". It's bullshit!

I have these thoughts BECAUSE I am miserable. Not the other way around! And just because they seem "negative" doesn't mean they are false. The truth is meant to inform you, not make you feel good or bad. Maybe I'm "miserable" because I accepted hard truths instead of going along with societies happily ever after fairytales.

I'm tired of living in a world filled with optimists.

 

[Dani Paradox]

Honestly, you just sound really negative, man. The words negative and honest are not synonymous...

 

[naia_]

There's a quote from a play by Henrik Ibsen:

Tar De livsløgnen fra et gjennomsnittsmenneske, så tar De lykken fra ham med det samme

Which loosely translates to "If you take delusion from the average man, you take his happiness at the same time"

Nobody wants to face it. Everyone will pick comfortable lie over harsh truth any day, cliché or not.

Eyy. Old Danish language there, thanks for the quote!

 

[The Blackangel]

Honestly, you just sound really negative, man. The words negative and honest are not synonymous...

But they're not antonyms either. Have you ever told someone they were an asshole? That's an honest statement that is negative. It may only be opinion, but you were being honest.

I would like to quote Morgan Freeman's line in The Shawshank Redemption:
Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. You better get used to that idea.

 

[worldexploder]

But they're not antonyms either. Have you ever told someone they were an asshole? That's an honest statement that is negative. It may only be opinion, but you were being honest.

I would like to quote Morgan Freeman's line in The Shawshank Redemption:
Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. You better get used to that idea.

Damn that's a good quote. In my opinion, hope keeps the suffering alive.

 

[Mr2005]

People confuse rudeness with honesty. Look at Trump, does he say what he thinks of others? Sure. Is he honest why he's saying it? Is he honest about himself? Not in the slightest

 

[Dani Paradox]

But they're not antonyms either. Have you ever told someone they were an asshole? That's an honest statement that is negative. It may only be opinion, but you were being honest.

I would like to quote Morgan Freeman's line in The Shawshank Redemption:
Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane. You better get used to that idea.

Negativity can drive a man insane too. After all, we are on a suicide forum.

 

[onewayroad]

Honestly, you just sound really negative, man. The words negative and honest are not synonymous...

I dunno man, I'd tend to disagree with you to some extent.

People with major depressive disorder actually tend to have a more realistic perception of the world. I can get you the full text of that paper if you're interested. People often think I am a pessimist, but I'm not. I don't always predict a bad outcome, it's just very often. And my predictions for how things will turn out are right more often than my friends who are overly optimistic. I am just a realist in a world that is incredibly cruel.

Negativity can drive a man insane too. After all, we are on a suicide forum.

I have been insane, and it wasn't because of negativity, it was because of hope. I have had many manic episodes which bordered on insanity, and most of them were due to some kind of hope. I'm not saying that's going to be the same for everyone but at least for me hope can be a lot more dangerous than negativity.

 

[Dani Paradox]

I dunno man, I'd tend to disagree with you to some extent.

People with major depressive disorder actually tend to have a more realistic perception of the world. I can get you the full text of that paper if you're interested. People often think I am a pessimist, but I'm not. I don't always predict a bad outcome, it's just very often. And my predictions for how things will turn out are right more often than my friends who are overly optimistic. I am just a realist in a world that is incredibly cruel.



I have been insane, and it wasn't because of negativity, it was because of hope. I have had many manic episodes which bordered on insanity, and most of them were due to some kind of hope. I'm not saying that's going to be the same for everyone but at least for me hope can be a lot more dangerous than negativity.

I have been driven insane, myself. And I also am a depressive realist. But you need balance. It's not good to be overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. You have to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. It's interesting, because I'm so used to people telling me that I'M negative. But, man, if I'm gonna be honest.....after talking to people on this site I am just chuckling at anyone who's ever called me negative. I am so unbelievably far from it that it's not even funny. And my response to them has always been basically what you just said to me. "I'm not negative...I'm a depressive realist." I'm looking at the rose through world colored glasses. You need that balance though. Too much of either/or is just setting yourself up for failure.

 

[onewayroad]

I have been driven insane, myself. And I also am a depressive realist. But you need balance. It's not good to be overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. You have to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. It's interesting, because I'm so used to people telling me that I'M negative. But, man, if I'm gonna be honest.....after talking to people on this site I am just chuckling at anyone who's ever called me negative. I am so unbelievably far from it that it's not even funny. And my response to them has always been basically what you just said to me. "I'm not negative...I'm a depressive realist." I'm looking at the rose through world colored glasses. You need that balance though. Too much of either/or is just setting yourself up for failure.

Yeah, it's definitely true that you need a balance. Not every situation is going to end badly, so it's unrealistic to be negative all the time. But I also think that hope is a lot more dangerous than pessimism, and should be handled like plutonium.

 

[Dani Paradox]

Yeah, it's definitely true that you need a balance. Not every situation is going to end badly, so it's unrealistic to be negative all the time. But I also think that hope is a lot more dangerous than pessimism, and should be handled like plutonium.

I respectfully disagree. But there is a difference between realistic hope and setting yourself up for failure. Never underestimate the power of positivity. Your thoughts are very powerful, one way or the other. The mind is like a garden, and your thoughts are the seeds. You can grow flowers or you can grow weeds.

 

[naia_]

Eyy. Old Danish language there, thanks for the quote!

My bad. That's Norwegian. Looks like old Danish though.

 

[837]

Because mental health is a one size fits all these days and if you don't conform to the norm (as in those mental health quotes on social media) you're f'ed. After feeding empty cliche platitudes they have nothing else to say. They say things to make others feel good even when it isn't true and they don't like to admit the truth
Society is a joke you either conform or get in the ward
I also do not know why people cannot be honest about working 40 hours a week. Complain and they will call you lazy. It's indoctrination at its finest. No wonder we can't be honest because everyone has already been indoctrinated into the system.