Discussion Why are people so afraid of being 'selfish'?

[couldntthinkofaname]

LOL what

he made a picture of his penis and posted it in a thread

 

[polyswarm]

he made a picture of his penis and posted it in a thread

What a way to go out, did you get a look at it?

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

What a way to go out, did you get a look at it?

yes. you want a description? ))

but in that case we should make an extra thread because i dont want a penis to derail this discussion

 

[Dani Paradox]

yes. you want a description? ))

but in that case we should make an extra thread because i dont want a penis to derail this discussion

lmao

 

[Rollo]

If I'm being robbed I wouldn't have a choice in the matter. But let's say you just asked me for some money, and I actually have some to spare.

Usually I hand over a little cash if someone asks me for it. But calling me selfish if I refused to hand over money is very manipulative.
I don't owe someone on the street money if they ask for it.

So refusing to give money is neither good nor bad, I could have benefitted you by giving you some, but not giving it doesn't leave you worse off.
Giving money would be a positive as it would have benefitted you and myself.

You do have a choice though - you can choose to fight back or otherwise try to keep your money from being taken. Or in the same manner you choose to not give me your money when I ask for it. So you not giving it to me when I ask for it or trying to take it from you - it does leave me worse off cause otherwise I would gain some cash.

So if I'm robbing you for my own benefit only and you try to prevent me from doing so for your benefit only - aren't we both being selfish? And if I'm robbing you while intending to share some part of the loot with my homies - isn't you being selfish while I'm this unselfish knight in the shining armour bringing light to this world by robbing you?

 

[polyswarm]

You do have a choice though - you can choose to fight back or otherwise try to keep your money from being taken. Sure you can do it out of fear but then again you can do it simply out of your desire to keep the money. Or in the same manner you choose to not give me your money when I ask for it. So you not giving it to me when I ask for it or trying to take it from you - it does leave me worse off cause otherwise I would gain some cash.

So if I'm robbing you for my own benefit only and you try to prevent me from doing so for your benefit only - aren't we both being selfish? And if I'm robbing you while intending to share some part of the loot with my homies - isn't you being selfish while I'm this unselfish knight in the shining armour bringing light to this world by robbing you?

I've already addressed all the points you bring up here, let's just agree to disagree.

I'll be sure to look out for you if I ever see you on the street ;)

 

[Rollo]

I've already addressed all the points you bring up here, let's just agree to disagree.

I'll be sure to look out for you if I ever see you on the street ;)

Well you still didn't explain why you're not being selfish in trying to keep the money while I'm being selfish in trying to take it from you as a gang member.

To be honest the only reason I brought this up is cause I wanted to show why this idea of unselfishness as something which benefits multiple people is false. It can benefit multiple people or only one person - but not you. Sure it's something you do, so it satisfies your need, but this need is strictly about helping. There's nothing else to it for you. And such a motivation does exist, it's just society uses it as it's backyard, dictating it's extent.

As far as selfishness go I think there are three types - defensive, passive and offensive. Defensive is when you defend yourself or your property. Passive is when you don't help when you have an option to - like you not giving your money when I ask for it, or just spending it on yourself while you have an option to spend it on somebody else. Or just basically doing something for yourself while you can spend the energy on helping somebody else. And offensive I don't think I need to explain - it's on the news everyday.

All are target for society. It's just that offensive selfishness is unconditionally shamed, passive is conditionally shamed, defensive is usually not shamed although sometimes it still is. Like when you're shamed for 'fighting' even if you weren't the one on assault. After all Jesus said 'turn the other cheek'.

 

[Rollo]

lol Rollo. See, everything is perception, really. The universe is a paradox. Nothing exists. There's always a way to flip it around and look at it the other way. So in reality, everyone is always right. At least from their point of view. In the end...every man judges himself. No man can stand in judgement of another.

Nah it does exist after all ) it's just in this instance people like to be selfish while thinking they're selfless. So their minds work as advocates for them. If a guy is selfish it means he basically puts himself above you. So if he has some emotional calling that runs contrary to his needs - who do you think is gonna be primarily responsible in his eyes for sacrificing his needs in order to fulfil it - you or him?

I'm actually interested in paradoxes - and it's the same with them too. They all are chains of false reasoning designed to establish self-contradictory conclusions. But all of them are solvable cause there's really no such thing as self-contradiction in universe, only self-contradicting statements.

 

[Sundayafternoon]

i think the idea of selfishness we invented is stupid, we think that some actions are selfish therefore they're bad, but everything we do is selfish.
even giving money to charity is selfish, we feel bad for poor people and we give them money to feel better about ourself, is it selfish? yes. is it bad or wrong? i don't think so.

I'm a cynical ahole that does not beleive altruism exist. Everything we do is avoid our discomfort or maximize our own pleasure.

 

[oldgray]

I'm a cynical ahole that does not beleive altruism exist. Everything we do is avoid our discomfort or maximize our own pleasure.

i think altruism exists in some situations, when you can do something to help others without having the time to think about it and you do it anyway.
but i'm talking about situations similar to the ones you see in movies, like helping someone dodge a bullet or a drunk driver, stuff like that.

 

[longingforrelease]

This thread seems to have run its course, but since i've seen some of these issues raised in more current conversations, I thought I'd add a comment or two. First, there seems to be a widespread confusion about the central concept of "selfishness." It seems to be used here often as synonymous with mere "self-interest." And the two terms have very different meanings and significant implications for the subjects we tend to take up here at SS. Philosophers and ethicists have debated these things for years, but I'll cite one source who's view seems to represent the general consensus on the distinction:
Self-interest:
• a concern for one's own well-being - that does not preclude concern for the well-being of others.

Selfish :
• concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others.
• arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others

seen in this way, acting on one's self interest is essential to one's happiness and well being, to say nothing of one's family. While selfishness motivates behavior is that often harmful to others either intentionally or as the result the mere disregard of others' wellbeing.

To take but one example from this thread: one cannot morally equate the intentional robbing of someone - even if the criminal act involves sharing the gains of said robbery with other members of the criminal enterprise -- with the victim's moral and ethical right (indeed obligation) to attempt to prevent the criminals from illegally, immorally and unethically depriving him of his rightful property. To make such an argument is to fundamentally misunderstand the distinctions between what is selfish behavior with self-interested behavior, a distinction that has been widely understood at least since at least the enlightenment period.

 

[lost illusions]

Being selfish, putting myself or my needs first. Feeling abandoned or losing everything important in my life is the consequence

 

[Aesthler]

Ironically people who preach about being selfless are usually the most selfish creatures you'll ever meet.

 

[tommyhalpinkelly]

Ironically people who preach about being selfless are usually the most selfish creatures you'll ever meet.

In what sense? Could you give examples?

 

[LonelyDude15]

Because selfishness is unhelpful for social groups