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Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,653
This isn't a bitter question — it's a genuine ethical one.

We often speak of free will, of bodily autonomy, of the fundamental right to make choices about our own lives. We say no one should be forced to do anything, that each person owns their body and their path. And yet, somehow, when it comes to the decision not to live, all of that is thrown out.

It seems society has decided — absolutely and without exception — that no matter what a person endures, the one thing they must not do is choose death. We treat death as the worst possible outcome, the single line that must never be crossed.

But is that really true? Isn't it possible that there are things worse than dying?

I can't help but feel that this moral stance — this rigid commandment that "you must live" — originated long ago, perhaps in the Middle Ages, when life was so harsh and miserable that without such a rule, many would have ended it. So religion stepped in, declaring life sacred, suicide sinful, and dignity something conferred upon you — not something you define for yourself.

Fast forward to today, and we claim to honor human rights — including the right to dignity. But if I'm the only one who knows what it's like to be me, to live in this body, with this pain, this loneliness, this meaninglessness — and I feel that my dignity is destroyed by that experience — why does no one listen?

Why do people who've never lived a single moment in my mind, my memories, my skin — feel entitled to override my choice?

If we truly respected autonomy, we would recognize that sometimes, continuing to live is not an act of freedom but of coercion — forced upon people by law, by fear, by culture, and by others' discomfort with death.

And so I ask again:
Why are people allowed to force me to live?
And why is that seen as compassion, when it might be the cruelest thing of all?



Coercion to live isn't always obvious. It doesn't always arrive with handcuffs or locked doors — though it sometimes does. More often, it comes through laws, systems, silence, guilt, and the refusal of society to allow a person to say, "I cannot go on."

Legally, the right to die is almost nonexistent. In most places, suicide is not recognized as a right but as a crisis to be stopped. If someone attempts it and survives, they may be hospitalized against their will, forcibly medicated, and treated not as a person making a decision, but as a malfunctioning system to be repaired. Assisted dying is allowed only in very narrow circumstances, typically for those with terminal physical illnesses — and even then, under intense scrutiny and regulation. The idea that someone might come to a calm, rational conclusion that their suffering outweighs the value of continuing is almost never accepted, especially if that suffering is emotional, existential, or chronic but invisible.

The medical system reinforces this coercion. Doctors and mental health professionals are trained above all else to preserve life. "Do no harm" is interpreted to mean "never let someone die," even when continuing their life might be the most profound harm of all. When someone expresses a desire to die, that wish is often dismissed as a symptom of illness rather than a position to be understood. Treatment is imposed rather than offered. Consent is revoked. And in the name of compassion, autonomy is taken away.

Culturally, the pressure to stay alive is overwhelming. Suicide is stigmatized, wrapped in shame, and spoken of as selfish, immoral, or weak. Those who are suffering are told to think of their families, of how much it would hurt others, of how wrong it would be to "give up." They are asked to stay alive not for themselves, but for everyone else. Pain becomes a private burden that must be carried silently to protect others from discomfort. Religious beliefs further compound this, declaring suicide sinful — a violation of sacred life — even for those who don't share those beliefs. The result is moral isolation: you are not only in pain, but you are made to feel guilty for wanting that pain to end.

Economic and material realities also trap people in life. Many people do not have the means to live in peace or to die with dignity. They may be poor, homeless, or reliant on medical systems that require compliance with treatment to continue receiving support. Even those who qualify for assisted dying often need wealth, legal access, and a supportive network to make that option a reality. Without those things, suffering becomes a sentence. Wanting to die is not enough — society demands that you suffer until your pain is "legitimate" by its standards.

The emotional coercion runs just as deep. People who express a desire to die are often met with anger, fear, or emotional manipulation. Friends or family might say things like, "How could you do this to us?" or "I'd kill myself if you died," binding the person to life through guilt rather than compassion. The expression of suicidal thoughts often leads not to care or understanding, but to withdrawal, threats, or rejection. People are told, "You're not thinking clearly," even if they've spent years wrestling with their pain in silence. Their insight is ignored; their voice is stripped of authority.

Over time, people internalize these pressures. They begin to feel ashamed of how they feel. They convince themselves they are broken, ungrateful, or weak for wanting what might, in truth, be a completely rational escape. They try to suppress their despair not because it has gone away, but because the cost of speaking it aloud is too high. And yet, the suffering remains.

Perhaps the cruelest form of coercion is the absence of alternatives. Many people who want to die don't truly want death — they want relief, peace, safety, dignity. But those things are out of reach. When every door is locked, when there's no way to live without pain, death becomes the only visible exit. And yet, that door too is barred — by laws, by doctors, by social pressure, by fear.

This is the shape of coercion: not always violent, but persistent. It speaks through silence, through law, through kindness that refuses to listen. It insists that you must endure, even when enduring means suffering without end.

So when we ask why someone wants to die, we must also ask: what have we done to make living so inescapable, even when it no longer feels bearable? And who gave us the right to decide that staying alive — no matter the cost — is the only acceptable choice?
 
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gottacheckout

gottacheckout

Arcanist
May 20, 2025
419
Very good questions, ones I have no answers for.

I'll make sure I check back to see if anyone else might have those answers.
 
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M

metothemoon

Student
Feb 11, 2024
114
I totally relate. I feel that I need the "permission" to die. Even feels that when anyone of my closest relatives says: "it's okay you can go"; I am out of here..
 
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Lapdog6795

Lapdog6795

Member
Mar 24, 2025
42
We as humans live double life:

- One that is natural, instinctive, or defined by the genes we carry
- Second is the life of rationalization, analysis, concepts and logic

Despite our ability to use logic and rationalize ideas, our natural instincts are most likely going to win. And if you observe, a general human being is more instinctive than rational or logical.

So even if they understand that we should have the right to die when we want, their instincts are always going override that rationalization. Whatever logic and reasoning says, but according to our instincts we are supposed to survive and live no matter what. They're blind but stronger than logic and reason.

Now there's no choice but to rationalize our instincts. And the answer they give is no matter what, we should always try to survive and live because being alive is good. If you ask them why, they've no clue.

Being alive (and maybe also force others to live) is our default programming. Depression and other mental illnesses are the bugs in that programming.

Our instincts are strong and blind forces man. Logic rarely wins against them.
 
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plycaract937

plycaract937

CTB Soon
May 16, 2024
27
Anything goes in this accursed world. While the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must.
 
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Pale_Rider

Pale_Rider

Elementalist
Apr 21, 2025
829
I also have no answers.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
12,455
I think it's a mixture really. There's the emotional side. The simple fact of the matter is- a lot of our family members, especially parents but, other loved ones too don't want us to make that choice either. So- it's not so much that our authoritarian governments are squashing the majority. In this case, they are simply upholding what the majority want. Do parents want their children to gain access to painless suicide methods?

I truly don't know how and if that attitude could be changed. I suppose if assisted suicide was brought in, it would have to be discussed more. Perhaps people would start to talk about their ideation earlier. People would simply have to find a way to accept it if it became a person's legal right.

Can you imagine the protests though? When the first few 18 year olds sneak off to die without their parent's knowledge? Do you really think it would be sustainable for governments to introduce such policies?

The other side to it I'm sure is economic. From a quick Google search, the economic cost of suicide in England alone was £7.7 billion in 2022. That's obviously without it being assisted. I imagine that figure would be much higher if we all had access to a reliable, painless method.

While I know you or I may not care about the impact or future of the country- we won't be around for it to affect us, the number crunchers in government will obviously be concerned about that.

Their job ought to be to make decisions for the greater good. If they know an action will take a huge slice out of the economy, they likely won't be in favour of it. Of course, I'm sure they could make that money up some place else but, those decisions are probably more complicated.

This ultimately is a decision that likely the vast majority of the country don't in fact want- they don't want their loved ones killing themselves- even if they are suffering. So- there's little pressure for them to bring it in in the first place.

Plus, it would apparently lose them a great deal of money. Which would harm the overall population. If you want to take the moral view- which is fair, then, is it good to bring in an action could harm more people than it helps? How many people will grieve over that one person? How will their contribution towards society being destroyed affect others?

Obviously, I also want the introduction of assisted suicide for all adults of sound mind but, I simply can't see it happening for multiple reasons.

Also, as it stands. People will only try to keep you alive if they are aware of you attempting suicide. It's not quite as enforced as you claim. The police let me keep my SN for instance. Obviously, it's not made easy though, because it isn't regulated. How can you be sure that the person who just bought SN isn't a 12 year old or, isn't a person in a state of psychosis? We can't expect retailers to discern those things so- it's inevitable police will get involved- if they find out.

I absolutely believe in the moral right to die. I'm not questioning that. I just think implementing it is a lot more complicated.
 
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timechained

Experienced
Apr 15, 2025
211
At the end of the day if you're going to kill yourself, you're going to kill yourself - no one can stop you in that moment.

It is much older than the middle ages, the bible states "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion." Ecclesiastes 9:4, and in ancient Mesopotamia you have the epic of Gilgamesh dealing with loss, death, and meaning of life.

Suicide wasn't always seen as a sickness, and depending where you live it still isn't seen as a sickness, but I'd say as long as it is seen as some type of "sickness", or whatever, then people will always be allowed to intervene in our lives because they believe in life over death.

The cruelest thing about all this is that a person living their life in suffering is seen as better than that person being dead because everyone around that person has hope things will get better - despite the real world evidence.
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

In hell for now
Feb 28, 2023
1,447
Sadly, human rights are an illusion, and this world is full of natural predators like in the wild. Instead of asking why we don't have the right to die, we could ask why we don't have any rights in the first place. How can we have a right to food if we have to pay for it? How can we have a right to shelter if many people are spending more than 50% of what they earn on rent? How can we have a right to not be slaves if this entire system is built around wage slavery?
 
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manicstreetbeeper

manicstreetbeeper

the only way out is through.
Feb 14, 2025
104
forced living is such a silly, pathetically and illogically optimistic little ideology pushed by people because it's what they're taught to think; and well, if you're told something by a lot of other people, then it must always be true.

in truth though nobody can be forced to live. i know it's so frustrating though and i empathize with you on that. the idea that life will always be okay is absolute horseshit to me; i don't tell it to other people, not because it's necessarily untrue, but because i just don't know everyone's brain formation and their individual circumstances. people are so comfortable with it though, usually people who do obviously have their own obstacles in life, but aren't willing to take into account or consider other people's.

the right to die is a choice anyway. suicide prevention objectively doesn't work for people who are truly set on killing themselves. just in personal perspective, i think living with those kinds of people is worse than dying.
 
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3

3xplo

Member
Dec 5, 2023
12
I love what you said. It's exactly what I'm thinking, but I'm not anywhere near as good with words as you are. I want my right to peacefully die, it's a choice I made, and I hate I'm being denied to leave with dignity. I hate people and our society for making me stay.
 
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thebiggestduck17

thebiggestduck17

forced to be alive
Aug 7, 2024
65
I know it sucks when life consistently gets worse every year but I still have to be alive cuz "SuIcIdE is BaD"
 
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Pale_Rider

Pale_Rider

Elementalist
Apr 21, 2025
829
Because they believe their morality is better then yours. I have been there. I told them they are responsible for my continued misery, and indeed they are.
 
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N

NoMoreSanity

Member
Mar 17, 2025
85
This isn't a bitter question — it's a genuine ethical one.

We often speak of free will, of bodily autonomy, of the fundamental right to make choices about our own lives. We say no one should be forced to do anything, that each person owns their body and their path. And yet, somehow, when it comes to the decision not to live, all of that is thrown out.

It seems society has decided — absolutely and without exception — that no matter what a person endures, the one thing they must not do is choose death. We treat death as the worst possible outcome, the single line that must never be crossed.

But is that really true? Isn't it possible that there are things worse than dying?

I can't help but feel that this moral stance — this rigid commandment that "you must live" — originated long ago, perhaps in the Middle Ages, when life was so harsh and miserable that without such a rule, many would have ended it. So religion stepped in, declaring life sacred, suicide sinful, and dignity something conferred upon you — not something you define for yourself.

Fast forward to today, and we claim to honor human rights — including the right to dignity. But if I'm the only one who knows what it's like to be me, to live in this body, with this pain, this loneliness, this meaninglessness — and I feel that my dignity is destroyed by that experience — why does no one listen?

Why do people who've never lived a single moment in my mind, my memories, my skin — feel entitled to override my choice?

If we truly respected autonomy, we would recognize that sometimes, continuing to live is not an act of freedom but of coercion — forced upon people by law, by fear, by culture, and by others' discomfort with death.

And so I ask again:
Why are people allowed to force me to live?
And why is that seen as compassion, when it might be the cruelest thing of all?



Coercion to live isn't always obvious. It doesn't always arrive with handcuffs or locked doors — though it sometimes does. More often, it comes through laws, systems, silence, guilt, and the refusal of society to allow a person to say, "I cannot go on."

Legally, the right to die is almost nonexistent. In most places, suicide is not recognized as a right but as a crisis to be stopped. If someone attempts it and survives, they may be hospitalized against their will, forcibly medicated, and treated not as a person making a decision, but as a malfunctioning system to be repaired. Assisted dying is allowed only in very narrow circumstances, typically for those with terminal physical illnesses — and even then, under intense scrutiny and regulation. The idea that someone might come to a calm, rational conclusion that their suffering outweighs the value of continuing is almost never accepted, especially if that suffering is emotional, existential, or chronic but invisible.

The medical system reinforces this coercion. Doctors and mental health professionals are trained above all else to preserve life. "Do no harm" is interpreted to mean "never let someone die," even when continuing their life might be the most profound harm of all. When someone expresses a desire to die, that wish is often dismissed as a symptom of illness rather than a position to be understood. Treatment is imposed rather than offered. Consent is revoked. And in the name of compassion, autonomy is taken away.

Culturally, the pressure to stay alive is overwhelming. Suicide is stigmatized, wrapped in shame, and spoken of as selfish, immoral, or weak. Those who are suffering are told to think of their families, of how much it would hurt others, of how wrong it would be to "give up." They are asked to stay alive not for themselves, but for everyone else. Pain becomes a private burden that must be carried silently to protect others from discomfort. Religious beliefs further compound this, declaring suicide sinful — a violation of sacred life — even for those who don't share those beliefs. The result is moral isolation: you are not only in pain, but you are made to feel guilty for wanting that pain to end.

Economic and material realities also trap people in life. Many people do not have the means to live in peace or to die with dignity. They may be poor, homeless, or reliant on medical systems that require compliance with treatment to continue receiving support. Even those who qualify for assisted dying often need wealth, legal access, and a supportive network to make that option a reality. Without those things, suffering becomes a sentence. Wanting to die is not enough — society demands that you suffer until your pain is "legitimate" by its standards.

The emotional coercion runs just as deep. People who express a desire to die are often met with anger, fear, or emotional manipulation. Friends or family might say things like, "How could you do this to us?" or "I'd kill myself if you died," binding the person to life through guilt rather than compassion. The expression of suicidal thoughts often leads not to care or understanding, but to withdrawal, threats, or rejection. People are told, "You're not thinking clearly," even if they've spent years wrestling with their pain in silence. Their insight is ignored; their voice is stripped of authority.

Over time, people internalize these pressures. They begin to feel ashamed of how they feel. They convince themselves they are broken, ungrateful, or weak for wanting what might, in truth, be a completely rational escape. They try to suppress their despair not because it has gone away, but because the cost of speaking it aloud is too high. And yet, the suffering remains.

Perhaps the cruelest form of coercion is the absence of alternatives. Many people who want to die don't truly want death — they want relief, peace, safety, dignity. But those things are out of reach. When every door is locked, when there's no way to live without pain, death becomes the only visible exit. And yet, that door too is barred — by laws, by doctors, by social pressure, by fear.

This is the shape of coercion: not always violent, but persistent. It speaks through silence, through law, through kindness that refuses to listen. It insists that you must endure, even when enduring means suffering without end.

So when we ask why someone wants to die, we must also ask: what have we done to make living so inescapable, even when it no longer feels bearable? And who gave us the right to decide that staying alive — no matter the cost — is the only acceptable choice?
Life can never be worst living. Life makes people want to die. Check out this blog post for more. https://nonvoluntary-antinatalism.com/
 
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LetMeOut67

LetMeOut67

Experienced
May 7, 2025
259
Why should I be expected to live in a world that I perceive as absolutely evil , amoral and sick?
People show by their actions that they believe that the weak must be crucified. It's not logical for us to stick around just to be continually stamped on by the shameless, the evil and the vindictive, of which there are a vast amount.
Life is a fate worse than death for us.

Self deleting is really no big deal. Time to accept this new reality.
 
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D

dontwakemeup

Warlock
Nov 11, 2024
748
There will NEVER be a justifiable reason for us to say we want to exit to them! They will see our poor quality of life, listen to us when we cry, but as soon as we say the "s" word, we are crazy and in need of immediate psychological help! We are all forced to stay here as we patiently wait to die 😢
 
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cat_enjoyer22

cat_enjoyer22

Member
Jul 3, 2025
9
Beautifully put.

No one can truly know what it's like to be someone else. No matter how close I get to anyone, I will never be able to see through their eyes.
 
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Wolf Girl

Wolf Girl

"This place made me feel worthless"
Jun 12, 2024
404
It's that pesky social contract that none of us agreed to again. I'm tired. 😮‍💨
 
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Kali_Yuga13

Kali_Yuga13

Wizard
Jul 11, 2024
653
I get what you're saying. I found Seneca's letter 70 to greatly alleviate feelings of being "forced" to live as you say. His take on the matter is very pragmatic even where the means to carry it out are less than painless or even downright gruesome.

I view your argument as having to do with social acceptance, stigma, anti-advocacy, cultural beliefs and law. I blamed Christianity and Abrahamic religions in general for awhile. Turns out early Christians were eager to hurry up and meet God after hearing the 'good news' so the Church had to step in. American Indian tribes had beliefs that those that suicided would suffer their soul being trapped to roam earth for cutting short the time allotted them by the Great Spirit. So the heathen and Christian are pretty much the same in that way. It must be some kind of deep seated fear because the same kind of people view the untimely death of a man in his prime during battle to be a noble end.

The question to me is; At what point does the reverence for life go to far and become anti-life? Should we spare the tumor so as to not "murder" cancer cells? Should we allow the house to be infested with bugs so as to prevent the death of bugs that serve some type of purpose in the eco-system? Should we a become breatharians since eating things kills them including vegetables? What about the microbes in the air we breathe in? Perhaps all life everywhere should be annihilated to stop the killing? Of course this can be taken to comical extremes but I think most readers get the gist.

In modern culture people don't want to feel guilt for having 'done nothing' to stop someone that expresses suicidal intent. They also don't want to be in any legal hot water. I've known people that expressed wanting to die for many years and made life incredibly difficult for those around them. I personally don't see what benefit it served themselves, their family or society at large to live their life out in such a way. I wonder how things would've turned out had an easy suicide been a socially acceptable option for them. Of course some of these types are emotional blackmailers and grifters for pity. History has shown that those committed to leaving find a way.

SaSu is a historical anomaly where we get to collectively examine and discuss suicide in great nuance and detail. Without reproach we can discuss methods, impact to family, financial concerns, the greater social argument, what we want done with our body etc. However, this liberty comes with the price of potentially getting stuck in the minutia.
 
P

Poiter1987

Member
Apr 14, 2025
55
Yeah i concur, no one can truly ever grasp the pain I'm dealing with. My mind has warped into something I can't truly express to anyone. It hurts so much not having anyone that can truly understand.
 
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