Where people can die in peace: Belgium

[Meditation guide]

If only we had been born in Belgium, we could simply request to die peacefully with the help of a doctor:



Every place should be this way:

 

[thewalkingdread]

Yeah... I think Belgium has the most liberal/libertarian legislation regarding our right to die... It's an oasis of true freedom amidst this fake "American/Western democracy freedom" bullcrap they like us to swallow.

And sadly even there, the pro-life idiots, usually religious ones, want to destroy it — the real freedom — with the same crappy strawman arguments that sound like the classical "abortion = murdering Babies"...

Fuck ALL of those ignorant Control Freaks...

 

[Meditation guide]

Yeah... I think Belgium has the most liberal/libertarian legislation regarding our right to die... It's an oasis of true freedom amidst this fake "American/Western democracy freedom" bullcrap they like us to swallow.

And sadly even there, the pro-life idiots, usually religious ones, want to destroy it — the real freedom — with the same crappy strawman arguments that sound like the classical "abortion = murdering Babies"...

Fuck ALL of those ignorant Control Freaks...

Canada sounds ok too although it might be they have to jump through a few more hoops there.

 

[thewalkingdread]

Canada sounds ok too although it might be they have to jump through a few more hoops there.

Sure. Canada is trying to get where Belgium is. We have other countries that are in almost the same level of freedom, like Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain... But i think Belgium is still the number 1 Winner.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

I wonder how real these Assisted suicide programs are. I mean, it seems really easy from all the YouTube videos. But if you actually apply, I'd imagine it's not so simple as just sign a piece of paper and off you go. There would be lots of forms and assessments involved. Not to mention you probably have to legally get a witness to sign it. Write a legal will. And take care of your finances.

 

[thewalkingdread]

I wonder how real these Assisted suicide programs are. I mean, it seems really easy from all the YouTube videos. But if you actually apply, I'd imagine it's not so simple as just sign a piece of paper and off you go. There would be lots of forms and assessments involved. Not to mention you probably have to legally get a witness to sign it. Write a legal will. And take care of your finances.

I get your point... Probably you would have to wait for a long time to apply for It, risk not being approved for It, etc .. It could take like 1-2 years... Annoying government bullshit. But still... They have at least that option... You got to start somewhere.

 

[Meditation guide]

I wonder how real these Assisted suicide programs are. I mean, it seems really easy from all the YouTube videos. But if you actually apply, I'd imagine it's not so simple as just sign a piece of paper and off you go. There would be lots of forms and assessments involved. Not to mention you probably have to legally get a witness to sign it. Write a legal will. And take care of your finances.

Did you watch the video where the doctor said you basically have to put the date on a note and say you are requesting assisted euthanasia and that's all? I know it sounds too good to be true to all of us struggling to figure out how to do it on our own with no help. I think you have to be under a doctors care for a year or two first in Belgium so they know you. But they are just so lucky.

For the clinics in Switzerland, unless you are a citizen of that country I really don't see how anyone is able to actually get it done considering all they make you go through, the paperwork you have to submit, the expense it's impossible.

I keep hoping one of the U.S. states will expand their thinking on this subject and do what Belgium does, allow anyone to simply request it without being already at death's door. But this is such a closed minded hyper fake religious country.

 

[SmollMushroom]

Woah what a video.
I thought it was mostly parents who would get in the way of someone wishing to ctb, nope. Apparently even children may want to force their will onto their parents, lol. I wonder why his mother didn't want the doctors to contact him, hmm??? Maybe he was a little too controlling? Poor woman.
Also why it's a big deal if two twins, both deaf and blind want to ctb together?
Anyways yeah Belgium +1 point in my book.

 

[monebeta2]

I
It's been 8 years, so seems like covid and people looking for such options are restricted there as well.

 

[NoOneLovesMiMi]

This is where I first learned that there is nothing wrong with me.
My life is not working.
So why and how can you tell me I can't die.
I've tried to find resources for Suicide Tourism.
But it's hard for Americans with just mental illness to get to those places.
I'm trapped here.
And for what

 

[Meditation guide]

I thought it was mostly parents who would get in the way of someone wishing to ctb, nope.

I've seen two other videos where the sons of women were very angry that their mothers were allowed to choose physician assisted suicide, one woman was suffering and dying of cancer. I cannot imagine that kind of selfishness. I suppose they are in the same camp as the mothers who's children committed suicide, which I also do not understand, that lack of empathy of how much the person was suffering to want to die so badly.

Some will never understand the desire to die until they too are in the same situation of unbearable suffering.

 

[CPY]

I don't really think it's that easy, I may be wrong but a quick Google search seems to tell that only 1% of all euthanasia approved cases are for psychiatric illnesses

I think it would be much more beneficial if those countries abolished all suicide prevention measures and legalized N and all substances used for CTB

 

[LaVieEnRose]

"where a few certain people"*

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

Sign me the fuck up please !

 

[Meditation guide]

I don't really think it's that easy, I may be wrong but a quick Google search seems to tell that only 1% of all euthanasia approved cases are for psychiatric illnesses

I think it would be much more beneficial if those countries abolished all suicide prevention measures and legalized N and all substances used for CTB

We are talking about Belgium where all you have to do is request it and you will have it. There is no approval process. You simply have to be under a physicians care when you request it. There might be a time delay of a year or two of being under a doctor's care. Correct me if I'm wrong. But otherwise no one has to approve you.

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

We are talking about Belgium where all you have to do is request it and you will have it. There is no approval process. You simply have to be under a physicians care when you request it. There might be a time delay of a year or two of being under a doctor's care. Correct me if I'm wrong. But otherwise no one has to approve you.

The video did say that for physical suffering you need to be approved by 2 doctors and for psychological suffering, 3 doctors.

 

[IDontLikeMyself]

Yea it ain´t so fucking easy at it seems though. Especially for like psychological pain. When you are deemed "young and healthy" by them you aint getting shit. There are also major issues with actually getting psychiatric help if you would want it because of the huge waitlists and so many people who kill themselves the "not legal" way i guess. Saying it´s super easy seems a bit exgerated imo as someone who lives there and knows people who tried to get approved

 

[アホペンギン]

The most openminded countries (usually those in europe) will always be the ones who are the first to advance in such important things, especially allowing people to die if they don't enjoy their lives due to incurable factors which worsen the quality of life for the people in question.

It is obviously more complicated than requesting to die peacefully, since it is a human's life on the line but I know whatever is going on there is a huge step towards something revolutionary, for people like us.

It's just sad that a lot of people disagree with allowing people to die a dignified death if they want it, because their life is genuinely unenjoyable even with the most help that could have been gotten. It is selfishness, they don't want to suffer themselves, what would obviously happen if someone they knew died so they force the people who are actually suffering to continue suffering until their times comes, naturally or if they ctb themselves which is very hard to do. I'm sure all of us know that by now.

At least Canada is doing something like this, it is arguably worse than what Belgium is doing but at least a country that is very similar to the US in terms of it's people, they're starting somewhere. By the way, a friend of mine told me you could die on command in Sweden as well but I don't know how it works, I haven't heard of it before causing me to be incapable of looking into it since I don't have enough resources.

Yea it ain´t so fucking easy at it seems though. Especially for like psychological pain. When you are deemed "young and healthy" by them you aint getting shit. There are also major issues with actually getting psychiatric help if you would want it because of the huge waitlists and so many people who kill themselves the "not legal" way i guess. Saying it´s super easy seems a bit exgerated imo as someone who lives there and knows people who tried to get approved

Yeah that is true but in more openminded countries (mainly Scandinavian countries, since they were the ones who legalized a lot of things before anywhere else), having a mental illness would make you qualified for being able to die via euthanasia. And like I said in this post, it is not that easy to do so since a human life is on the line but it is indeed possible. It will just take some time and the decision definitely depends on the doctor's personal philosophy and that of many other people who are in charge of providing you with the means of dying a peaceful and dignified death. Your decision would of course matter but it is very complicated to make the choice to allow you to die.

I don't really think it's that easy, I may be wrong but a quick Google search seems to tell that only 1% of all euthanasia approved cases are for psychiatric illnesses

I think it would be much more beneficial if those countries abolished all suicide prevention measures and legalized N and all substances used for CTB

It really isn't that easy, a human's life is on the line so it is a very hard decision, to make this decision would also require philosophy as well as concern for others and how their day to day situation is unbearable and possibly worsening.

I doubt suicide prevention would be abolished any time soon, at least in our lifetimes but I know with the right choices and the right influences it'll definitely happen soon.

 

[Falling Slowly]

After 3 physicians were put on criminal trial in Belgium in 2020 for not following the proper procedures in euthanising a woman (the jury found them not-guilty), stricter guidelines were brought in for Belgian physicians in relation to euthanasia for psychiatric-related cases.

"Physicians are now under a deontological obligation to comply with the following guidelines, aimed at ensuring a high standard of care. First and foremost, at least two of the three physicians involved in evaluating a psychiatric patient's euthanasia request should be psychiatrists. The attending physician should have regular face-to-face discussions with the consulted physicians about the fulfillment of the legal criteria. These consultations must be recorded in a written report. Although euthanasia on a non-terminally ill person who suffers from a psychiatric illness can legally be performed after at least 1 month has passed counted from the date of the patient's first request, this time-frame is considered too short for the comprehensive evaluation of the euthanasia request.
Second, a patient can only be considered untreatable if all reasonable treatment options have been attempted. The physicians must be convinced that, from an objective medical-psychiatric perspective, there is no longer any reasonable treatment that can improve the patient's condition and alleviate their suffering. Hence, a euthanasia request cannot be granted if a psychiatric patient refuses to undergo certain evidence-based treatments.
Third, the attending physician should encourage the patient to involve their relatives in the euthanasia procedure, unless there are good reasons not to do so. As is clarified in the guideline of the Flemish Society of Psychiatry, involving relatives might not only contribute positively to the grieving process of the latter, but it is also important to ascertain that the euthanasia request of the patient did not come about as a result of external pressure (21).
Fourth and final, as regards the evaluation of the well-considered nature of the request, it is acknowledged that a psychiatric disorder can affect the patient's mental competence, but that this is not automatically the case. This will require a careful and comprehensive assessment by the three physicians involved"

From:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2022.933748/full

 

[WeDontKnowTheFuture]

Euthanasia in belgium isn't that easy,
Good Luck to find 2 or 3 psychiatrist who agree to accept your request with the motive of depression. A lot of psychiatrist think that suicidality is just a symptom of your depression so they won't take you seriously.
it would also be frowned upon by their colleague to accept it.
Most will try dozens of medications wich can worsened your condition as they can make you emotionaly numb, have disabling secondary effects and in the long term, can cause severe damages ( i took antidepressants for 4 years and when i stopped them, i had electric shock in my head and my body during 1 year, this is also called brain zap ). Some will have sexual disorder or anhedonia for the rest of their life. You will have to go through a lot of treatments before to convince on of them. For exemple, they will certainly suggest you to try electroshock ( wich doesn't make sense for me, if you really want to die why do some electoshock will change anything to your will ? it create some new neuronals connections and generate new neurones, will it change anything if your life is pointless and/or you can't manage to live with yourself and the way you function.)
After you did that electroshock thing, you will have to go trough many therapy in wich you're going to pretend you want to recover.
The number of therapy which exist are significant so at what point can we say we have tried everything? How long will it last until we can finaly get euthanasia ?
Beside that, the probability that new medication or therapies will appear is really high considering the time it will take to try everything available

 

[Meditation guide]

Euthanasia in belgium isn't that easy,
Good Luck to find 2 or 3 psychiatrist who agree to accept your request with the motive of depression. A lot of psychiatrist think that suicidality is just a symptom of your depression so they won't take you seriously.
it would also be frowned upon by their colleague to accept it.
Most will try dozens of medications wich can worsened your condition as they can make you emotionaly numb, have disabling secondary effects and in the long term, can cause severe damages ( i took antidepressants for 4 years and when i stopped them, i had electric shock in my head and my body during 1 year, this is also called brain zap ). Some will have sexual disorder or anhedonia for the rest of their life. You will have to go through a lot of treatments before to convince on of them. For exemple, they will certainly suggest you to try electroshock ( wich doesn't make sense for me, if you really want to die why do some electoshock will change anything to your will ? it create some new neuronals connections and generate new neurones, will it change anything if your life is pointless and/or you can't manage to live with yourself and the way you function.)
After you did that electroshock thing, you will have to go trough many therapy in wich you're going to pretend you want to recover.
The number of therapy which exist are significant so at what point can we say we have tried everything? How long will it last until we can finaly get euthanasia ?
Beside that, the probability that new medication or therapies will appear is really high considering the time it will take to try everything available

Yes I've been through that for two years with a dozen different medications which made things even worse.
I'm sure most with debilitating depression are put through that wringer.

 

[FuneralCry]

From what I'm aware it sounded like people need to meet a certain suffering criteria to be accepted which is so cruel as I believe access to it should be a basic human right. But if people were able to die in such a way then they were fortunate. I envy them for not having to do suicide method research and worry about any risks in the suicide method, it's not even avaliable for anyone at all where I live which is just so horrifying.

 

[tiredcat]

this is super interesting, i never knew belgium had such laws.

to die like this with your friends and family not seeing it as people do in the u.s and supporting the decision seems so peaceful.

 

[OhWellDerp321]

Did you watch the video where the doctor said you basically have to put the date on a note and say you are requesting assisted euthanasia and that's all? I know it sounds too good to be true to all of us struggling to figure out how to do it on our own with no help. I think you have to be under a doctors care for a year or two first in Belgium so they know you. But they are just so lucky.

For the clinics in Switzerland, unless you are a citizen of that country I really don't see how anyone is able to actually get it done considering all they make you go through, the paperwork you have to submit, the expense it's impossible.

I keep hoping one of the U.S. states will expand their thinking on this subject and do what Belgium does, allow anyone to simply request it without being already at death's door. But this is such a closed minded hyper fake religious country.

That's my point. If you have to be under s doctor's care for a year or two, then that's not euthanasia. That's just delaying it and playing around with you. Who is to say after a year they won't just change the circumstances and deny you?

From what I'm aware it sounded like people need to meet a certain suffering criteria to be accepted which is so cruel as I believe access to it should be a basic human right. But if people were able to die in such a way then they were fortunate. I envy them for not having to do suicide method research and worry about any risks in the suicide method, it's not even avaliable for anyone at all where I live which is just so horrifying.

How do you judge a person's suffering? You can't. If its mental health stuff, you can't reads somebody's mind.

Euthanasia should really be simple. Consent from the doctor that is willing to do it. And the individual getting the eusthanasia.

From what I'm aware it sounded like people need to meet a certain suffering criteria to be accepted which is so cruel as I believe access to it should be a basic human right. But if people were able to die in such a way then they were fortunate. I envy them for not having to do suicide method research and worry about any risks in the suicide method, it's not even avaliable for anyone at all where I live which is just so horrifying.

How do you judge a person's suffering? You can't. If its mental health stuff, you can't reads somebody's mind.

Euthanasia should really be simple. Consent from the doctor that is willing to do it. And the individual getting the eusthanasia.

We are talking about Belgium where all you have to do is request it and you will have it. There is no approval process. You simply have to be under a physicians care when you request it. There might be a time delay of a year or two of being under a doctor's care. Correct me if I'm wrong. But otherwise no one has to approve you.

That in itself is an approval process. If you have to be under a doctor's care for one of two years before euthanasia, than that is a requirement,

 

[Meditation guide]

That's my point. If you have to be under s doctor's care for a year or two, then that's not euthanasia. That's just delaying it and playing around with you. Who is to say after a year they won't just change the circumstances and deny you?


How do you judge a person's suffering? You can't. If its mental health stuff, you can't reads somebody's mind.

Euthanasia should really be simple. Consent from the doctor that is willing to do it. And the individual getting the eusthanasia.


How do you judge a person's suffering? You can't. If its mental health stuff, you can't reads somebody's mind.

Euthanasia should really be simple. Consent from the doctor that is willing to do it. And the individual getting the eusthanasia.

That in itself is an approval process. If you have to be under a doctor's care for one of two years before euthanasia, than that is a requirement,

Most who have a mental impairment do see a psychiatrist for a year or two, at least from what I've seen, so it's not really an unusual or impossible requirement.

 

[aGoodDayToDie]

Where did everyone get the information that you need to be under a doctor's care for a year or two? Links?? Sources??

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

If only we had been born in Belgium, we could simply request to die peacefully with the help of a doctor:



Every place should be this way:

'simply request to die'

Yeah, there's an understatement. There's a whole procedure that has to be followed.

Did you watch the video where the doctor said you basically have to put the date on a note and say you are requesting assisted euthanasia and that's all? I know it sounds too good to be true to all of us struggling to figure out how to do it on our own with no help. I think you have to be under a doctors care for a year or two first in Belgium so they know you. But they are just so lucky.

I didn't watch that video, but that's just bull shit. You need at least 3 doctors (2 doctors and in theory 1 psychiatrist) to sign off. And after the case of Tine Nys (euthanasia because of unbearable mental suffering) they're suggesting the 3 doctors should all be psychiatrists in case of mental suffering. Also, doctors aren't obligated to perform euthanasia.

Euthanasie

In 2002 heeft België een wet goedgekeurd die euthanasie in bepaalde situaties uit de strafrechtelijke sfeer haalt. Op verzoek van de patiënt mag een arts euthanasie toepassen als voldaan is aan alle voorwaarden die in de wet zijn vastgelegd. Dit verzoek wordt geuit door een handelingsbekwame...

www.health.belgium.be

 

[Lookingtoflyfree]

Most who have a mental impairment do see a psychiatrist for a year or two, at least from what I've seen, so it's not really an unusual or impossible requirement.

Privilege in action. There's a shortage of psychiatrists in the US, for example, and most don't take insurance so if you're poor you're screwed. So maybe you can rethink the 'usual or impossible'?

 

[dyingslowly]

Yeah... I think Belgium has the most liberal/libertarian legislation regarding our right to die... It's an oasis of true freedom amidst this fake "American/Western democracy freedom" bullcrap they like us to swallow.

And sadly even there, the pro-life idiots, usually religious ones, want to destroy it — the real freedom — with the same crappy strawman arguments that sound like the classical "abortion = murdering Babies"...

Fuck ALL of those ignorant Control Freaks...

I was wondering whether it is possible from a non EU person to fly there on a visa that is around 3 months to get this treatment would that be easy to do or it would be hard to do

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

I don't really think it's that easy, I may be wrong but a quick Google search seems to tell that only 1% of all euthanasia approved cases are for psychiatric illnesses

1,4% in 2023

https://news.belgium.be/nl/node/36268/pdf

Most who have a mental impairment do see a psychiatrist for a year or two, at least from what I've seen, so it's not really an unusual or impossible requirement.

The psychiatrist still has to agree with the request of euthanasia.

Where did everyone get the information that you need to be under a doctor's care for a year or two? Links?? Sources??

Doesn't seem to be true:

Euthanasie - Burgers

Op verzoek van een patiënt en als voldaan is aan alle voorwaarden die in de wet zijn vastgelegd, kan een arts, volgens een strikte procedure, op wettige wijze euthanasie toepassen. Euthanasie kan ofwel toegepast worden bij een patiënt die bij bewustzijn is en een actueel verzoek tot euthanasie...

www.health.belgium.be

I was wondering whether it is possible from a non EU person to fly there on a visa that is around 3 months to get this treatment would that be easy to do or it would be hard to do

You need to be domiciled (proof that you're living here; police will check this on site) in Belgium and you need a rijksregisternummer (sort of a social security number).