Resource When pro-lifers say “Why don’t you (the pro-choicer/dissident) kys?”

[TAW122]

Normally, such a glib and flippant response deserves no response and I wouldn't dignify such a response (especially IRL). However, for the sake of discussion, informational, and educational value, I have thought about a response or at least some retort when one is faced with such a glib and flippant statement (not that I recommend people do so, but again, for the sake of knowledge). Such a statement isn't really an argument, but really a low-effort, bad faith attempt to shame and ridicule people that pro-lifers dislike. In some of the honk demonstration videos that TRTNLE (The Right To No Longer Exist) and even SHK (Stop Having Kids) whose focus is primarily anti-natalism, they have been the recipient of such ire from pro-lifers. I believe both organizations conducted themselves pretty well despite the errant, flippant, and glib statements that pro-lifers unload at them.

My response to such statements, of course, not based on logic since this isn't a logical argument, but more like an personal attack, therefore my reaction (should there be one) will be tailored towards that. So my rebuttal would then be something similar to: "Well you (pro-lifers) don't want to legalize peaceful means to do so, then you want the State (the government) to intervene against one's wishes. You might as well be telling a criminal that it is okay to commit crimes but just don't get caught! How ironic… Oh and also you (the pro-lifer) are a hypocrite because you want me (a pro-choicer) to choose death! It isn't even about living, it's all about your ego, your atavistic morals being protected, having dominance and control over others, and having your cake and eating it at the same time! So kindly go fuck yourself!"

Mind you such a harsh attack commands a harsh response as pro-lifers are all about "control" and less about living well. There is no line or boundary that they will not cross or any limit to their reach. Nor do they settle for any concessions or compromises as it's all about validating their egos, atavistic morals and worldview, and of course, being in charge of everyone, including those who don't share the same values and views as they are. Therefore, when pro-lifers (especially the vile ones) say such a glib statement, it really is just an attempt to gaslight, ridicule, and otherwise bully pro-choicers under the false notion that there exists a "real" choice when there isn't! They are also out of touch with reality as it shows because they (the pro-lifers) never really done their homework research (or even if they did, they deliberately ignore the facts that will expose or otherwise contradict their worldview), but I digress.

So with that said, do as you will with this information and while I don't recommend even wasting energy in responding to such glib and flippant remarks made by those "pro-lifers", at least you have some ammo to throw at them.

 

[アホペンギン]

I agree, that response they give us when they've run out of ammunition ; the ability to dedicate at least the slightest amount of effort to make a viable response ; is just disgusting and hypocritical. They're the ones advocating for suicide prevention so I can't grasp in the slightest as to why they would say such a thing, it could even be classified as encouragement, if thought about in a certain way.

As you mentioned, I believe a glib remark like such doesn't deserve a thoughtful response, obviously a response we'd make. Personally, I'd simply laugh at them for saying such a thing, perhaps telling them to fuck off as well if necessary, and pointing out their hypocrisy based on the reasons aforementioned.

 

[DeadlineDialer]

In my view, if someone is to make such a confrontational and careless remark to you directly, your reply should meet the same energy. Typically I hold a tired demeanor, I've been told I'm unapproachable from my stance and face alone. When people start tossing around all the typical spiels I often don't really waste my breath, if they don't get it they don't get it. Sometimes I smile, sometimes I moan, sometimes I look away and nod, sometimes I give no reply and watch their ice break like a jaw. But if they choose to test my patience with such an churlish show of impertinence, I like to take my chance to finally let loose and get blunt since they're open to hostility. I have no qualms driving someone with a lack of basic empathy and consideration away from me, along with the possibility of making them reflect.

I did actually have someone with the gall to ask that in person once, and I chose to entertain the remark since I knew them closely, and it kind of did shock me. I told them I would in due time, I'm just waiting for the right bad day. They tried to clarify, asking since every day is bad and nothing really matters, why I stick around, why I haven't done it already. I ask them if they really even know what they're talking about, I asked them if they've ever had the thought cross their mind. They admitted they never did, so I asked them if they've ever stood someplace high up and looked down, ever gotten vertigo at the sight of the immense drop and thought of the plummet. I knew this person was afraid of heights, so they admitted they did but they said they like living, and if I hate life so much then what's holding me back. I was a little speechless at the jarring lack of self awareness, and I asked them if they seriously thought the human brain just tosses out all natural instinct if someone once someone feels sad. I asked them if they've ever been sad in their life, they protested but I pushed until they said yes, and I asked them if they still felt afraid to die. After a longer semantic argument, they eventually saw my point and apologized, admitting they were just angry at me for expressing the thought (teaches me for opening up) and didn't know what to say.

If it's a stranger saying this I usually tell them to kill themselves right back, they're just rando trolls, I don't know them. They could die tonight and I wouldn't bat an eye, same way they feel about me. I do recommend that if it's someone you know, tell them how rash and abrasive that is to say. Your emotional connection to them will help them see through it and it just might give them a different perspective, so I say it's worth a try. You have to explain in a way they can see, just as you or I don't understand wanting to stick around for nothing, these people don't understand how you feel. There is one thing that connects us to them, and it's that we're both human, we both suffer (albeit in varied intensity) and we both have a brain that won't let us die. Express survival instinct to these people, if they don't understand suicidal ideation, they'll understand basic brain chemistry holding them back. If that person knew you and still said it just to hurt you, just tell them you just might do it, right in front of them too so they can have that burned into their brain forever. They wanna be evil, show them evil.

As a side note, I personally don't blame government intervention. I admit I could do it once I gather my courage and do it, it's possible. I do stress that psyche wards are modern urban hell and were designed to be such, only adding an unneeded stress of failure onto the situation. More often than not, however, I've noticed they either deny that or say it's necessary. In those cases, I just stop talking, there's nothing left to be said, if they actually think that behavior towards the downtrodden is warranted then they don't deserve the breath off my lip. If you have the energy in you, you can try to explain the possible alternatives, but know it's on deaf ears, societal change will never come to fruition because, collectively, no one actually gives a shit about mental health. Society wants an immediate solution, and the quickest one they can get is forcibly holding someone down and stopping them until they slink off like an injured animal, too scared to try again.

 

[Seered Doom]

My response would be; "I'm trying, you're not making it any easier so do me a favour and shut up"

 

[MeltingBrain]

Resource When pro-lifers say "Why don't you (the pro-choicer/dissident) kys?"

This is an evil statement when said with malice , when not, it's a completely naive question and tells that you the questioner doesn't have a clue what it takes to CTB .

 

[FuneralCry]

I cannot stand people who say things like that, I just think the reality is that many people have no idea as to how difficult suicide truly is. Many people believe that one can overdose on whatever pills can be bought from the local store and die instantly in a guaranteed way which is why many people insensitively say things like that when those who hate life continue to stay here.

If someone says that suicide is easy they are either ignorant or lying as the reality is that we exist in this society where suicide is purposely made as difficult as possible for people. Those who know nothing about hard it is to die really shouldn't have any right to ask that question.

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

I think that a lot of these pro-lifers are actually psycopaths, sociopaths and narcissists.
They somehow get a buzz from trying to intimidate and belittle those of us who are suicidal.
The rest of them are the usual normies who don't really care, or even try to understand us.
Yet they enjoy being portrayed as caring and helpful do-gooders.

 

[SilentSadness]

It's a very bad faith argument designed to provoke a reaction rather than contribute to the discussion. It's best to ignore it, because people who say things like this are very good at making others angry and saying things they don't mean.

 

[TAW122]

I agree, that response they give us when they've run out of ammunition ; the ability to dedicate at least the slightest amount of effort to make a viable response ; is just disgusting and hypocritical. They're the ones advocating for suicide prevention so I can't grasp in the slightest as to why they would say such a thing, it could even be classified as encouragement, if thought about in a certain way.

As you mentioned, I believe a glib remark like such doesn't deserve a thoughtful response, obviously a response we'd make. Personally, I'd simply laugh at them for saying such a thing, perhaps telling them to fuck off as well if necessary, and pointing out their hypocrisy based on the reasons aforementioned.

Good response and yes, what you said about pro-lifers is spot on. They really have no good arguments hence they resort to personal attacks and shaming/discrediting tactics to shut someone down.

In my view, if someone is to make such a confrontational and careless remark to you directly, your reply should meet the same energy. Typically I hold a tired demeanor, I've been told I'm unapproachable from my stance and face alone. When people start tossing around all the typical spiels I often don't really waste my breath, if they don't get it they don't get it. Sometimes I smile, sometimes I moan, sometimes I look away and nod, sometimes I give no reply and watch their ice break like a jaw. But if they choose to test my patience with such an churlish show of impertinence, I like to take my chance to finally let loose and get blunt since they're open to hostility. I have no qualms driving someone with a lack of basic empathy and consideration away from me, along with the possibility of making them reflect.

I did actually have someone with the gall to ask that in person once, and I chose to entertain the remark since I knew them closely, and it kind of did shock me. I told them I would in due time, I'm just waiting for the right bad day. They tried to clarify, asking since every day is bad and nothing really matters, why I stick around, why I haven't done it already. I ask them if they really even know what they're talking about, I asked them if they've ever had the thought cross their mind. They admitted they never did, so I asked them if they've ever stood someplace high up and looked down, ever gotten vertigo at the sight of the immense drop and thought of the plummet. I knew this person was afraid of heights, so they admitted they did but they said they like living, and if I hate life so much then what's holding me back. I was a little speechless at the jarring lack of self awareness, and I asked them if they seriously thought the human brain just tosses out all natural instinct if someone once someone feels sad. I asked them if they've ever been sad in their life, they protested but I pushed until they said yes, and I asked them if they still felt afraid to die. After a longer semantic argument, they eventually saw my point and apologized, admitting they were just angry at me for expressing the thought (teaches me for opening up) and didn't know what to say.

If it's a stranger saying this I usually tell them to kill themselves right back, they're just rando trolls, I don't know them. They could die tonight and I wouldn't bat an eye, same way they feel about me. I do recommend that if it's someone you know, tell them how rash and abrasive that is to say. Your emotional connection to them will help them see through it and it just might give them a different perspective, so I say it's worth a try. You have to explain in a way they can see, just as you or I don't understand wanting to stick around for nothing, these people don't understand how you feel. There is one thing that connects us to them, and it's that we're both human, we both suffer (albeit in varied intensity) and we both have a brain that won't let us die. Express survival instinct to these people, if they don't understand suicidal ideation, they'll understand basic brain chemistry holding them back. If that person knew you and still said it just to hurt you, just tell them you just might do it, right in front of them too so they can have that burned into their brain forever. They wanna be evil, show them evil.

As a side note, I personally don't blame government intervention. I admit I could do it once I gather my courage and do it, it's possible. I do stress that psyche wards are modern urban hell and were designed to be such, only adding an unneeded stress of failure onto the situation. More often than not, however, I've noticed they either deny that or say it's necessary. In those cases, I just stop talking, there's nothing left to be said, if they actually think that behavior towards the downtrodden is warranted then they don't deserve the breath off my lip. If you have the energy in you, you can try to explain the possible alternatives, but know it's on deaf ears, societal change will never come to fruition because, collectively, no one actually gives a shit about mental health. Society wants an immediate solution, and the quickest one they can get is forcibly holding someone down and stopping them until they slink off like an injured animal, too scared to try again.

Fortunately for me, I haven't had people say that IRL to me or directly, and like you said, if it was some rando troll(s), then yes their remarks mean next to nothing and they aren't meant to be taken seriously or even acknowledged... With regards to government intervention, it almost seems like a feedback loop between the masses (society at large) and the people in power (in governments) and by this I mean that the masses don't like people dying in general and want to avoid death as an outcome even if it is inevitable for all living things, then also the government makes that happen by enacting certain legislation, granting certain people authority to temporarily strip away a suspected suicidal person's rights away in the name of 'health and safety', then also enforcing it (mandated reporters, doctors, law enforcement, social workers, psychiatrists and therapists, etc.). If society doesn't change, then the results of the current day would persist into the future, such as gruesome and barbaric means of CTB, people walking into gruesome CTB scenes (family, first responders, etc.). I do however, wish that there would be enough change, such that they would expand coverage to people who don't necessarily have terminal illnesses but even severe illnesses (non-terminal) and those who have suffered for long periods of time with no relief.

My response would be; "I'm trying, you're not making it any easier so do me a favour and shut up"

In my younger days, I'm sure I would have said something similar to that.

This is an evil statement when said with malice , when not, it's a completely naive question and tells that you the questioner doesn't have a clue what it takes to CTB .

Excellent point and yes, people who say it are either malevolent or just really ignorant (and naive).

I cannot stand people who say things like that, I just think the reality is that many people have no idea as to how difficult suicide truly is. Many people believe that one can overdose on whatever pills can be bought from the local store and die instantly in a guaranteed way which is why many people insensitively say things like that when those who hate life continue to stay here.

If someone says that suicide is easy they are either ignorant or lying as the reality is that we exist in this society where suicide is purposely made as difficult as possible for people. Those who know nothing about hard it is to die really shouldn't have any right to ask that question.

Very true, most people are clueless and ignorant when it comes to the reality of CTB. They probably seen some stuff on TV/news/media and/or had someone they know (usually a family member or relative) CTB and they think it's easy even though it isn't.

I think that a lot of these pro-lifers are actually psycopaths, sociopaths and narcissists.
They somehow get a buzz from trying to intimidate and belittle those of us who are suicidal.
The rest of them are the usual normies who don't really care, or even try to understand us.
Yet they enjoy being portrayed as caring and helpful do-gooders.

Sad but true, and I think us pro-choicers who want to CTB are almost like easy pickings for people who want to do harm (to us) and still appear virtuous, heroic, and good people (in the eyes of society).

It's a very bad faith argument designed to provoke a reaction rather than contribute to the discussion. It's best to ignore it, because people who say things like this are very good at making others angry and saying things they don't mean.

Yes, I would often ignore it and personally, while I never had someone say it directly to me, I just wrote this thread in order to show how I would respond if I were ever in that position.