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hopelessgirl

hopelessgirl

Mage
Oct 12, 2021
512
An interesting article about the neurobiology of suicide. You need to subscribe for free though to read the article.

 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,913
Give me those soma tablets already! I will be a productive and cheerful member of society as long as you keep a steady supply of these!
 
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NearlyIrrelevantCake

NearlyIrrelevantCake

The Cake Is A Lie
Aug 12, 2021
1,733
I've had a print subscription to The Scientist for nearly a decade; it's great seeing them dive into the topic of suicide.
 
jimmy7754

jimmy7754

I just want to be myself again
Dec 15, 2021
508
Give me those soma tablets already! I will be a productive and cheerful member of society as long as you keep a steady supply of these!
Brave New World is such a smart book.
 
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Cathy Ames

Cathy Ames

Cautionary Tale
Mar 11, 2022
2,109
Wow! This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing it.

I have been wondering about the role of serotonin. For me, I find that a certain SSRI flips a switch in my brain so that almost my every waking thought is about suicide. It's really a bummer.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,802
Give me those soma tablets already! I will be a productive and cheerful member of society as long as you keep a steady supply of these!
Have a gram, not a damn.
 
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L

Life sucks

Visionary
Apr 18, 2018
2,134
"hope they could one day lead to better treatment and prevention strategies."

Prolifers want a future where people are forced to suffer by manipulating their brains. People then are turned into puppets and even the self control and autonomy are gone. Better to escape this life.
 
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T

Ta555

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2021
1,317
I couldn't read the article because of a paywall but I'm going to have to really disagree about 'biomarkers for suicide'.
Let me give you an example. Say you don't know how to ride a bike. You have brainscans done on your brain and then you learn to ride a bike and go bikeriding for a year. You get another brain scan and guess what! It's different! The brain areas responsible for balance and coordination or motor movement have changed! Do you now say we found biomarkers for riding a bike?
Or, let's say there's a way to accurately measure brain chemical levels. You get yours measured and then sometime later you find your spouse has cheated on you and you're going through a divorce. You're traumatised, angry etc. You get brain chemicals measured again and the levels are different now! Do we say we found biomarkers for a break up?
The logical thing is that something horrific enough happens to people to make them want to kill themselves. The suffering and trauma, the experience of it is changing the brain. Suicide is not a disease or a desire in a vacuum when everything is going fine. This is why fixing whatever causes the suicidal thoughts, if it can be fixed, eliminates suicidal thoughts!
What the stupid mental health field just never learns is that it's not suicidal ideation that needs to be treated as if it's some stand alone disease, but whatever is making the person suicidal. If I could fix my health issues I would not be suicidal and I'm sure a lot of people can agree with me.
I don't believe there are any biomarkers for suicide. These biomarkers are just changes in the brain due to horrific experience. Just like the experience of riding a bike or playing the piano will also change your brain.
Of course I have to say there are exceptions where the brain is inflamed, or physically damaged or diseased like with a virus or somesuch or chemically altered with drugs or whatever which makes people act out of character and have all sorts of strange thoughts.
As someone with mystery chronic illness it fucking pisses me off to hear all this mental health bullshit about how people with chronic illness just need more mental health help and that will stop so many of us from ctb. No dumb cunts, stop trying to push more mental health crap down my throat and use that money to find research into the fucking disease that makes me want to die! Sorry...I'm just very angry at the state of things...
 
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hopelessgirl

hopelessgirl

Mage
Oct 12, 2021
512
I couldn't read the article because of a paywall but I'm going to have to really disagree about 'biomarkers for suicide'.
Let me give you an example. Say you don't know how to ride a bike. You have brainscans done on your brain and then you learn to ride a bike and go bikeriding for a year. You get another brain scan and guess what! It's different! The brain areas responsible for balance and coordination or motor movement have changed! Do you now say we found biomarkers for riding a bike?
Or, let's say there's a way to accurately measure brain chemical levels. You get yours measured and then sometime later you find your spouse has cheated on you and you're going through a divorce. You're traumatised, angry etc. You get brain chemicals measured again and the levels are different now! Do we say we found biomarkers for a break up?
The logical thing is that something horrific enough happens to people to make them want to kill themselves. The suffering and trauma, the experience of it is changing the brain. Suicide is not a disease or a desire in a vacuum when everything is going fine. This is why fixing whatever causes the suicidal thoughts, if it can be fixed, eliminates suicidal thoughts!
What the stupid mental health field just never learns is that it's not suicidal ideation that needs to be treated as if it's some stand alone disease, but whatever is making the person suicidal. If I could fix my health issues I would not be suicidal and I'm sure a lot of people can agree with me.
I don't believe there are any biomarkers for suicide. These biomarkers are just changes in the brain due to horrific experience. Just like the experience of riding a bike or playing the piano will also change your brain.
Of course I have to say there are exceptions where the brain is inflamed, or physically damaged or diseased like with a virus or somesuch or chemically altered with drugs or whatever which makes people act out of character and have all sorts of strange thoughts.
As someone with mystery chronic illness it fucking pisses me off to hear all this mental health bullshit about how people with chronic illness just need more mental health help and that will stop so many of us from ctb. No dumb cunts, stop trying to push more mental health crap down my throat and use that money to find research into the fucking disease that makes me want to die! Sorry...I'm just very angry at the state of things...
I am sorry. I am just trying to understand what I am going through. Looking for clues everywhere. I guess my si is trying it's very best to find some solution before it is too late. I didn't mean to say that they were right... But I am, even if it is an oversimplification, grateful for the fact that at least at someone at a minimum is trying to figure out why people are suicidal.... I am trying very hard to make a rational choice, and to either accept my death or not.... Your comment also helps me in that. Thank you.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,802
I couldn't read the article because of a paywall but I'm going to have to really disagree about 'biomarkers for suicide'.
Let me give you an example. Say you don't know how to ride a bike. You have brainscans done on your brain and then you learn to ride a bike and go bikeriding for a year. You get another brain scan and guess what! It's different! The brain areas responsible for balance and coordination or motor movement have changed! Do you now say we found biomarkers for riding a bike?
Or, let's say there's a way to accurately measure brain chemical levels. You get yours measured and then sometime later you find your spouse has cheated on you and you're going through a divorce. You're traumatised, angry etc. You get brain chemicals measured again and the levels are different now! Do we say we found biomarkers for a break up?
The logical thing is that something horrific enough happens to people to make them want to kill themselves. The suffering and trauma, the experience of it is changing the brain. Suicide is not a disease or a desire in a vacuum when everything is going fine. This is why fixing whatever causes the suicidal thoughts, if it can be fixed, eliminates suicidal thoughts!
What the stupid mental health field just never learns is that it's not suicidal ideation that needs to be treated as if it's some stand alone disease, but whatever is making the person suicidal. If I could fix my health issues I would not be suicidal and I'm sure a lot of people can agree with me.
I don't believe there are any biomarkers for suicide. These biomarkers are just changes in the brain due to horrific experience. Just like the experience of riding a bike or playing the piano will also change your brain.
Of course I have to say there are exceptions where the brain is inflamed, or physically damaged or diseased like with a virus or somesuch or chemically altered with drugs or whatever which makes people act out of character and have all sorts of strange thoughts.
As someone with mystery chronic illness it fucking pisses me off to hear all this mental health bullshit about how people with chronic illness just need more mental health help and that will stop so many of us from ctb. No dumb cunts, stop trying to push more mental health crap down my throat and use that money to find research into the fucking disease that makes me want to die! Sorry...I'm just very angry at the state of things...
Suicide is a consequence of an existing problem and not inherently a pestilence in itself, which is something that researchers struggle to wrap their heads around. You hit the nail on the head here, and I can relate to the frustration and agony you experience as a consequence of chronic illness.

Boiling it down and simplifying it to, "poor mental health" neglects the intrinsic despair of dealing with an incurable malady. Sadly, many academics cannot grasp this due to their lack of lived experience with permanently ill health- otherwise they wouldn't have a booming career.

The search for biomarkers stems from how those of us in science are taught and trained, unfortunately. Studying neuroscience myself, there is a strong push to try and dissect, organise, and stratify the brain into succinct and clearly defined biological constructs when such an order has yet to be elucidated.

Early on in a life sciences based education, you'll be taught the components of prokaryotic and eukaryotic cells, their individual structures, and how they function as parts of a whole. We all know the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell due to its ATP production, and that the nucleus contains the majority of a cell's genetic material, the rough endoplasmic reticulum produces and ships out ribosomes, etc.

It is fundamentally impossible at this stage of understanding to apply such a systematic construct of mapping to the brain, yet many scientists make a futile attempt to shove a square peg into a round hole. There is far more that we don't know about the brain compared to what we do posses knowledge of.

It is well established in both animal model studies and human clinical literature that adverse life experiences such as chronic illness, trauma, deprivation, neglect, isolation, and so on and so forth profoundly alter the course of neurodevelopment, and this impact is more salient and prominent the earlier the trauma occurs in a person's lifetime.

Despite- for example, enlarged amydalas being observed in people and mice who have underwent traumatising life experiences such as extreme neglect and abandonment, sexual abuse, violence, and so on and so forth- no "mental health" treatment on the market seeks to address this structural abnormality and place abuse victims in an environment which could have the potential to reshape these synapses.

As long as these memories exist and the problems are ongoing, there is no drug or therapy that could even take a stab at remedying the damage that's been done. It is similar for people in our position with chronic illnesses. The constant demands of life, the shaming for being unable to function at a level that is deemed acceptable, the isolation resulting from being unable to mask one's struggles and wear a mask of devout extroversion.. Of course this reality would drive anyone mad, but all of the current studies have completely missed the plot as to why our lives are full of hardship.
 
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B

Burned out

Member
Sep 22, 2018
83
I believe neuroinflammation is a contributor to suicide. I'm going to try to get tested for toxoplasmosis, as I touched cat poop accidentally as a kid, and also my MRI shows two cysts which were "likely from an infection".
 
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katagiri83

katagiri83

Like tears in rain
Jan 4, 2022
119
Would anyone be so kind to post / attach the article in PDF? Thnx.
 
Cathy Ames

Cathy Ames

Cautionary Tale
Mar 11, 2022
2,109
I couldn't read the article because of a paywall but I'm going to have to really disagree about 'biomarkers for suicide'.
Let me give you an example. Say you don't know how to ride a bike. You have brainscans done on your brain and then you learn to ride a bike and go bikeriding for a year. You get another brain scan and guess what! It's different! The brain areas responsible for balance and coordination or motor movement have changed! Do you now say we found biomarkers for riding a bike?
Or, let's say there's a way to accurately measure brain chemical levels. You get yours measured and then sometime later you find your spouse has cheated on you and you're going through a divorce. You're traumatised, angry etc. You get brain chemicals measured again and the levels are different now! Do we say we found biomarkers for a break up?
The logical thing is that something horrific enough happens to people to make them want to kill themselves. The suffering and trauma, the experience of it is changing the brain. Suicide is not a disease or a desire in a vacuum when everything is going fine. This is why fixing whatever causes the suicidal thoughts, if it can be fixed, eliminates suicidal thoughts!
What the stupid mental health field just never learns is that it's not suicidal ideation that needs to be treated as if it's some stand alone disease, but whatever is making the person suicidal. If I could fix my health issues I would not be suicidal and I'm sure a lot of people can agree with me.
I don't believe there are any biomarkers for suicide. These biomarkers are just changes in the brain due to horrific experience. Just like the experience of riding a bike or playing the piano will also change your brain.
Of course I have to say there are exceptions where the brain is inflamed, or physically damaged or diseased like with a virus or somesuch or chemically altered with drugs or whatever which makes people act out of character and have all sorts of strange thoughts.
As someone with mystery chronic illness it fucking pisses me off to hear all this mental health bullshit about how people with chronic illness just need more mental health help and that will stop so many of us from ctb. No dumb cunts, stop trying to push more mental health crap down my throat and use that money to find research into the fucking disease that makes me want to die! Sorry...I'm just very angry at the state of things...
It's not a paywall. Just make an account with a disposable email and you can go ahead and read it. It's mildly interesting to see that there are some potential biochemical explanations for suicidality, and one person correctly notes that this is a rebuttal to the conventional wisdom that the issue amounts to a character flaw or weakness. Sadly, they're not currently pointing to a fix, but maybe someday....
 
Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
1,352
Suicide is a sociological phenomenon, not a psychological or physiological one. I believe that life is pathological, not death.

After the miraculous effects of ketamine on suicidal depression and post-traumatic major depression, they became interested in glutamate. I would love to try ketamine infusion therapy but it is very expensive in my country. Still, not much would change for me because there is no cure for being old.
 
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