What kind of advice do you give?

[weedoge]

I apologize if this question offends anybody. I'm completely surprised that this could be seen as a horrible and stupid question. I've seen instances of both on this site. If it's in poor taste, my bad, but this is not a inflammatory question. I just want to know if people are on the side of life or death, on a pro-choice forum lol

It's just that you missed out the third option which I expect the majority of this site would choose.

 

[LifeSick]

You mean "shouldn't"? He obviously can, as he just did it. For me this is like the trolley problem, it's just a hypothetical situation to create an ethical dilemma.

I mean, It's meant to be uncomfortable to answer IMO.

 

[AndyCurious]

Exactly. Thank you for this.

I haven't seen encouragement on this site one way or another and that's the beauty of it, and how it should be.

As the Ash forum greeting went (so I heard)..."glad you found us but sorry you are here"

You're welcome.. And you are right.. Mistakes may happen here too, but after all, this is an awesome place for us that needs it :)

 

[Smilla]

Peace!

Let me answer the additon you added in your edit.

How am I pro-life? Pro-choice means the support of both life and death. Please point out where I've said people do not have the right to die. You are making assumptions of my opinions, maybe because I failed to clearly explain myself. Of course I don't think suicidal people don't want others to be happy. But look where we are friend, a place to share methods and discussions of killing yourself, so asking for peoples opinion on where they stand is completely justified.

I have NO agenda I'm trying to push, and if you think I do, or I'm pro-life, like you said, the ignore button is right there :)

Don't call me friend please.

I want to see people happy either in this life or in death. Your either/or scenario is shallow and doesn't speak at all to this community.

When I see a recovery tab or someone who left because they want to embrace life I am genuinely happy for them; when someone ctb s i am also happy (relief from interminable pain), but tremendously sad that a human life has come to this (suicide) because I know how much suffering led to the decision and final act.

 

[Ben]

It's just that you missed out the third option which I expect the majority of this site would choose.

If I had a third option, my reason for asking the question would be diluted. Two choices, wanting people to live or die. Yes, people may not have an answer or want to answer given my choices, but I really don't see a reason for this question to be upsetting. I don't have, or ever had, malicious intentions with my participation here.

 

[AndyCurious]

Can you explain what the difference between providing advice and encouragement is?

One thing is to discuss methods for example, and not saying : if I were you, I would jump off a cliff or a tall bridge.. Personally, I support anyone here, no matter what they choose, since I know how it feels to struggle beyond repair..

 

[Ben]

Don't call me friend please.

I want to see people happy either in this life or in death. Your either/or scenario is shallow and doesn't speak at all to this community.

It's meant to be shallow. I'm allowed to ask a shallow question if I want to. If I'm so offensive to the entire community, get me banned, or please ignore me. I do not like arguing.

 

[Ben]

One thing is to discuss methods for example, and not saying : if I were you, I would jump off a cliff or a tall bridge.. Personally, I support anyone here, no matter what they choose, since I know how it feels to struggle beyond repair..

Well, I just think it's wrong to say there is no encouragement allowed in this site. If a user wants to live, I encourage them by sharing advice on how to get better. If they want to die, I will share advice, which is basically encouragement.

Look at the method threads for example. Are we really pretending we are not encouraging each other by telling them how tight the rope has to be?

 

[DeletedUser4739]

I'm curious as to what users here think about this survey. This is a pro-choice forum, so that means support of both life and death are allowed. It's the right we have to pick one that unites us.

That said, it's clear that death holds the majority of discussion here, so I'm wondering if you, in general, want to see people live or want to see people die. There is no right or wrong answer. Nobody is going to judge you if you're campaigning for death. We know it's not malicious, you just want to see the end of peoples pain...but are there also users here that would encourage people to fight through the pain and try to conquer their problems?

This question is completely hypothetical. You know nothing about this hypothetical person, just that they are undecided on living or dying, and they have come to you to ask what YOU think they should do. They do not share their story or any context with you, they just want to know your unfiltered opinion.

Wow! I went with my gut, and from the results, it appears other users did as well. Lots to think about.

Glad to see your interesting posts again.

 

[Virgo]

Well, I just think it's wrong to say there is no encouragement allowed in this site. If a user wants to live, I encourage them by sharing advice on how to get better. If they want to die, I will share advice, which is basically encouragement.

Look at the method threads for example. Are we really pretending we are not encouraging each other by telling them how tight the rope has to be?

He means encouraging people to kill themselves is not allowed.

 

[Ben]

Wow! I went with my gut, and from the results, it appears other users did as well. Lots to think about.

Glad to see your interesting posts again.

I'm happy to see the results as well. Maybe next time I'll be a little clearer though lol.

 

[LifeSick]

Well, I just think it's wrong to say there is no encouragement allowed in this site. If a user wants to live, I encourage them by sharing advice on how to get better. If they want to die, I will share advice, which is basically encouragement.

Look at the method threads for example. Are we really pretending we are not encouraging each other by telling them how tight the rope has to be?

I think it's like giving advice on how to use drugs safely, instead of encouraging people to get high. If someone means to take their own life, they better know how to do it properly and what are the consequences, or else they might just create even more suffering. But it is indeed a fine line between advice and encouragement.

 

[DeletedUser4739]

The path to the bus stop should be the absolute final option explored.

The reason I signed on after lurking for a while was that this site isn't a place where people encourage others to ctb. We're all standing at the edge of the cliff, but there's no jostling, no pushing, no jeering or taunting, and when someone goes over the edge but reaches back at the last second, there are always a dozen people waiting to pull them back and hold them as they weep.

I'm not at my best these days, and have written things here that were not kind, nor helpful. I've also been helped, and hope I have helped a few users, in just getting through for now at least. I just wish I was able to find such people in my real life.

 

[DeletedUser4739]

I'm happy to see the results as well. Maybe next time I'll be a little clearer though lol.

I don't think you could have been any more clear. Sometimes we do best to keep it simple.

 

[AndyCurious]

Maybe take a raincheck on the rules yourself AndyCurious!

I read the rules every day, to check if any updates has been done :)

 

[Lara Francis]

The path to the bus stop should be the absolute final option explored.

The reason I signed on after lurking for a while was that this site isn't a place where people encourage others to ctb. We're all standing at the edge of the cliff, but there's no jostling, no pushing, no jeering or taunting, and when someone goes over the edge but reaches back at the last second, there are always a dozen people waiting to pull them back and hold them as they weep.

This is so nicely said x

 

[Ben]

He means encouraging people to kill themselves is not allowed.

I understand that completely. Maybe I just have a different deffition of encouragement. Giving somebody advice can be considered encouragement if you're choosing to assist them reach their goal.

 

[DeletedUser4739]

I think it's like giving advice on how to use drugs safely, instead of encouraging people to get high. If someone means to take their own life, they better know how to do it properly and what are the consequences, or else they might just create even more suffering. But it is indeed a fine line between advice and encouragement.

I'm not sure if I follow you here. Are you saying that you find it acceptable to advise users on how to use drugs for suicide, but not how to use them for recreational and/or therapeutic uses?

 

[weedoge]

Well, I just think it's wrong to say there is no encouragement allowed in this site. If a user wants to live, I encourage them by sharing advice on how to get better. If they want to die, I will share advice, which is basically encouragement.

Look at the method threads for example. Are we really pretending we are not encouraging each other by telling them how tight the rope has to be?

I think you're being a little pedantic. You're stretching the definition of encourage beyond how it was simply intended.

I think it's like giving advice on how to use drugs safely, instead of encouraging people to get high. If someone means to take their own life, they better know how to do it properly and what are the consequences, or else they might just create even more suffering. But it is indeed a fine line between advice and encouragement.

Right, harm reduction for suicide.

 

[IfHeDiesHeDies]

I understand that completely. Maybe I just have a different deffition of encouragement. Giving somebody advice can be considered encouragement if you're choosing to assist them reach their goal.

Giving advice and encouragement are both seen as providing assistance to suicide under the laws in almost all common law jurisdictions. They are seen as basically the same thing.

 

[Ben]

I think you're being a little pedantic. You're stretching the definition of encourage beyond how it was simply intended.


Right, harm reduction for suicide.

My reason for questioning the definition of encouragement is because it's not allowed, but in my opinion, it's all over this site. I encourage people to live, if they want to, all the time. If encouragement is not allowed, then I should be banned. If not, then we should all be questioning what encouragement really means here.

 

[Ben]

Giving advice and encouragement are both seen as providing assistance to suicide under the laws in almost all common law jurisdictions. They are seen as basically the same thing.

I agree they are basically the same thing

 

[TiredHorse]

One thing is to discuss methods for example, and not saying : if I were you, I would jump off a cliff or a tall bridge.. Personally, I support anyone here, no matter what they choose, since I know how it feels to struggle beyond repair..

For whatever it's worth, when I posted my (mostly TL;DR) treatise on Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics, I ran it past one of the Mods (Threads) to make sure it was acceptible. Threads suggested a change specifically because he was concerned that it might be seen as encouragement, and I duly changed it. It is a fine but important line to walk, and I think this site generally walks it very well.

For those who feel that discussing condoms is encouraging kids to have sex, any sort of advice on the technical aspects of suicide will be seen by the pro-lifers as encouragement to ctb. I think that just as most thinking people will accept the difference between sex ed and encouragement, so must we also, in this thread, accept that there is an identical difference between suicide-ed and encouragement.

 

[LifeSick]

I think you're being a little pedantic. You're stretching the definition of encourage beyond how it was simply intended.


Right, harm reduction for suicide.

Am I sensing sarcasm?

 

[Ben]

For whatever it's worth, when I posted my (mostly TL;DR) treatise on Exit Bag and Inert Gas Basics, I ran it past one of the Mods (Threads) to make sure it was acceptible. Threads suggested a change specifically because he was concerned that it might be seen as encouragement, and I duly changed it. It is a fine but important line to walk, and I think this site generally walks it very well.

For those who feel that discussing condoms is encouraging kids to have sex, any sort of advice on the technical aspects of suicide will be seen by the pro-lifers as encouragement to ctb. I think that just as most thinking people will accept the difference between sex ed and encouragement, so must we also, in this thread, accept that there is an identical difference between suicide-ed and encouragement.

Well said. You are right, there is a identical difference between suicide-Ed and encouragement. But wouldn't you agree that the rules should be clearer, so you don't have to run things by mods to see if it's allowed?

I just think the rule "encouragement is not allowed" is way too understated given where we are.

 

[Johnnythefox]

My two cents!
A couple of years ago I had someone come to the work to do their community payback. After he'd been there sometime he told me that he tried to CBT the previous night, he was a successful business man and restaurant owner. I took him outside to sit and told him about my experiences and advised him to see a therapist, which he did and thanked me for. Glad to have helped him.
When my father was dying in hospital four years ago, although I hated him and he disliked me I would have gladly put him out of his suffering for his sake. I also always said that I would rather put a pillow over my mother's face than see her waste away in an old folks home where she is now.
So if someone was suffering so much, then yes I would put them out of their suffering and hope that someone would do the same for me.

 

[Ben]

My two cents!
A couple of years ago I had someone come to the work to do their community payback. After he'd been there sometime he told me that he tried to CBT the previous night, he was a successful business man and restaurant owner. I took him outside to sit and told him about my experiences and advised him to see a therapist, which he did and thanked me for. Glad to have helped him.
When my father was dying in hospital four years ago, although I hated him and he disliked me I would have gladly put him out of his suffering for his sake. I also always said that I would rather put a pillow over my mother's face than see her waste away in an old folks home where she is now.
So if someone was suffering so much, then yes I would put them out of their suffering and hope that someone would do the same for me.

Thanks for sharing that

 

[weedoge]

I understand that completely. Maybe I just have a different deffition of encouragement. Giving somebody advice can be considered encouragement if you're choosing to assist them reach their goal.

I agree they are basically the same thing

That's a valid point and I've retroactively felt guilty and thought about it in the past from advice I've given, but in the end it's really just an emotional issue and giving advice on how to perform the act of suicide is not the same as encouraging someone mentally towards performing it. Maybe in the eyes of the law or whatever but that was never what was being discussed.

Personally if I ever give advice I'm extra conscious of what language I use, I'm generally interested in just knowing what methods are truly viable given my criteria and like the idea of other people being able to have all the information they need to make a similar decision, it's really that simple I think.

Am I sensing sarcasm?

No not this time lmao

 

[DeletedUser4739]

Well said. You are right, there is a identical difference between suicide-Ed and encouragement. But wouldn't you agree that the rules should be clearer, so you don't have to run things by mods to see if it's allowed?

I just think the rule "encouragement is not allowed" is way too understated given where we are.

I find this with a lot of the rules. They tend to more subjective, and I have a hard time understanding how and to whom they apply at times. So much grey area...maybe it needs to be more broad? I don't have enough experience to say one way or the other.

 

[DeletedUser4739]

My two cents!
A couple of years ago I had someone come to the work to do their community payback. After he'd been there sometime he told me that he tried to CBT the previous night, he was a successful business man and restaurant owner. I took him outside to sit and told him about my experiences and advised him to see a therapist, which he did and thanked me for. Glad to have helped him.
When my father was dying in hospital four years ago, although I hated him and he disliked me I would have gladly put him out of his suffering for his sake. I also always said that I would rather put a pillow over my mother's face than see her waste away in an old folks home where she is now.
So if someone was suffering so much, then yes I would put them out of their suffering and hope that someone would do the same for me.

Same here. Death with dignity, please.