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Neroidism

Member
Sep 25, 2024
7
Obviously, suicide discussion on SaSu is very different from most mainstream discussions (which normally take a prevention first approach). I'm curious as to what you guys' philosophies are when discussing things like:
- Venting
- Concepts of an afterlife
- Someone who wants recovery
- Someone who does not want recovery
- Oppression (Suicidism)
- Critical suicidology
- People who are content and at peace with the decision to CTB
- Society's framework of mental healthcare (Mental hospitals, involuntary holds, social workers, etc)

- Etc (Whatever else you guys want to discuss)
 
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Alexei_Kirillov

Alexei_Kirillov

More beast than man
Mar 9, 2024
1,268
What do you mean exactly? Could you give an example of what kind of answer you're expecting?
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,997
On SaSu, I normally vent, talk about various topics and anything that is CTB related. A lot of times, I write articles and threads based on my own ideas, partly to vent, but also bring other intellectual insight into various things in hopes that maybe someone may benefit from it here. I have a small hope that beyond my own sentience that the community will flourish even if I may not be around to experience or witness the outcome.
 
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tormentedhusk

tormentedhusk

Jonah 4:3
May 20, 2025
57
- Someone who wants recovery
- Someone who does not want recovery
- Oppression (Suicidism)
- Critical suicidology
- People who are content and at peace with the decision to CTB
- Society's framework of mental healthcare (Mental hospitals, involuntary holds, social workers, etc)
anarcho-capitalism.

My personal view:

Of course it is more preferable to walk the earth and prosper, than be deceased. Death is a lesser evil to walking the earth in misery.

Everyone has a threshold.
 
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Neroidism

Member
Sep 25, 2024
7
What do you mean exactly? Could you give an example of what kind of answer you're expecting?
I mainly want some sort of over-arching idea you follow when discussing these things. For example:
Topic: "What is your philosophy when discussing the afterlife and suicide?"

Answer: "We do not know what happens after death, so we should accept that there are several interpretations of the afterlife. Someone who says 'You will go to hell for CTB' assumes that there is a heaven/hell after death, but that's incompatible with someone who says 'You will disappear forever after death, so it follows that you will lose consciousness and any capacity to suffer.'"

However, if you'd like to say anything else that is still relevant, that is also very welcome.
 
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Dusk till dawn

Dusk till dawn

Experienced
Sep 7, 2018
231
Autonomy above everything else (gender, age, background, health status, motives)

I'm a firm believer that autonomy stands above everything else, so when talking about suicide, i don't care about the individuals health or age or motivies for wanting to die, I'm fine with anyone's decision for wanting to die no matter what
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
12,092
Pro-choice all the way. If someone wants to try recovery- great, good luck to them. If someone is utterly exhausted and at the end of their tether then- I can understand that too.

I think it's helpful to have somewhere to be able to just let loose and vent about it. I also think it can help us to figure out what we truly believe ourselves. People come up with really interesting questions and perspectives here, which make us try to figure out our own personal stance. I see all of that as good. Perspectives on life and death and what we actually really value and want, feed into our ultimate decision. I certainly think the decision to suicide needs to be thought about in depth so, I think all thoughts around it are important.

I suppose it's possible that a negative 'echo chamber' (often criticized here) may not be helpful. Still, I think the majority of people here are very self aware and will tend to seek out places they resonate with. I imagine those who want to stay here are already in quite a pessimistic frame of mind. Similarly, those who want to give recovery a real shot sometimes decide to leave.

We're bound to discuss the afterlife here. Again, I'm pro- choice as to whatever people want to believe, I can respect. I do personally have issues with God and religion though so, that can lead to outbursts. I hope people realise I'm not trying to criticize them personally though. More the concepts and implications themselves.
 
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ad astra

ad astra

I go on my own time, not society's.
Jul 27, 2024
16
It's a very individual, case-by-case matter to me. But, to simplify: another adult? it's their body, soul, life, and death, they should have autonomy on whether to decide on recovery, therapy, medications, or even CTB if they'd prefer. There's more to this, but I can't really articulate it all on here right now, it's a lot.

However, in the case of minors, absolute NO, because at that point in life, the brain is rapidly changing and growing, what they might want one day might be different the next.

Obviously, I think, regardless of age, there should always be comfortable CTB options for anyone suffering a terminal illness. It's common sense. Of course, in the case of terminally ill minors, it'd have to be checked over in order to prevent the decision from being based on parental coercion. Also probably a bunch of legal stuff that I probably wouldn't understand no matter what.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As for afterlife, I don't know. It's a question I've thought about and tried to figure out, but I just don't know and don't feel confident enough to give a solid view on what I think happens to the soul/conscience after death. I'm leaning towards reincarnation, that maybe once we die, we come back born into a different body and life. But I'm also thinking it could be that we go to a realm beyond all earthly and material matter, and that because of it's immaterial nature, it can't be detected by living people, but it's neither a heaven nor a hell because it's beyond that as well. We could even just go into an eternal, dreamless sleep, and it wouldn't matter at that point because we'd be free...
 
Blurry_Buildings

Blurry_Buildings

Just Existing
Sep 27, 2023
492
I mainly want some sort of over-arching idea you follow when discussing these things. For example:
Topic: "What is your philosophy when discussing the afterlife and suicide?"

Answer: "We do not know what happens after death, so we should accept that there are several interpretations of the afterlife. Someone who says 'You will go to hell for CTB' assumes that there is a heaven/hell after death, but that's incompatible with someone who says 'You will disappear forever after death, so it follows that you will lose consciousness and any capacity to suffer.'"

However, if you'd like to say anything else that is still relevant, that is also very welcome.
I don't think there is any consensus or over-arching philosphies that most of the forum adheres to, other than maybe the freedom of someone to choose for themselves, without influence. People will get upset if you try to encourage or discourage the suicide of other people, and encouraging it is both not allowed here and illegal in some places.


For my personal opinion, I think there are many ways a society can send its least desirable into the depths of despair. Imagine a group of people beat you down until you can't move, and then shovel you into a hole while standing at the top, virtue signaling to each other about how kind and compassionate they are. They all helped in different ways to shovel you in, but they act as if nothing like that ever happened, or shift the entirety of the blame onto you.

In reality, the blame rests on everyone. On them who helped put you here and on you for choosing to stay in the hole or dig it deeper, maybe to get away from them or maybe because you just weren't as competent as they are.

Either way, you're in the hole now, and when they act the way they do at the top; offering a token amount of support as a display of how magnanimous they are, it might be a little confusing to you. They have one hand outsretched to you and the other holding onto the shovel they just used on you. If this has already happened a few times before, you might be scared to grab on, since at least the hole can give you a place to belong, and won't throw you away.

Many people at the top of the hole aren't bad people, but they don't understand.

It's like Kelli (not sure if I spelled that right) from Fix the 26 accusing the site admin of taking the $700 of donations meant to keep the site running and using it for gender reassignment procedures (the mildly disturbing, completely baseless, and really abhorent accusation aside her actions make it clear she only wants to save certain types of individuals on this site). It's also like Joe Biden giving yet another empty promise of a social safety net for struggling families only to bomb children in Gaza instead, or maybe democrats in general arrogantly making a show of asinine terminology, identity politics and political correctness while turning around and supporting the modern day colonization of the west bank by extremists who want to remove the palestinians and turn it into an extension of Israel. So much for cultural tolerance and diversity.

Its like an employer who says they value every "member of our family" but then works you until you break and they have no use for you. Like people who have children they can't afford. Like people who have empathy, but whose empathy comes with conditions against the mentally deranged gays or the transgenders or the faggots. People who care, but only if you aren't broken. People who will acknowledge you, but only if you don't look "suspicious" or "dangerous". People who self righteously think they hold the moral high ground and claim that they will always know what is and isn't true, and what is and isn't morally just.

These aren't bad people, but to me they are very dangerous, because they are the least trustworthy and most malicious kinds of people you will ever meet.
 
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A

alwaysalone

Student
May 14, 2025
138
Obviously, suicide discussion on SaSu is very different from most mainstream discussions (which normally take a prevention first approach). I'm curious as to what you guys' philosophies are when discussing things like:
- Venting
- Concepts of an afterlife
- Someone who wants recovery
- Someone who does not want recovery
- Oppression (Suicidism)
- Critical suicidology
- People who are content and at peace with the decision to CTB
- Society's framework of mental healthcare (Mental hospitals, involuntary holds, social workers, etc)

- Etc (Whatever else you guys want to discuss)
I believe every adult should be able to do what they want with THEIR body. Only their body. I don't believe doing things with your body that puts other in danger (directly) is ok unless they're ok. I sont mean just physical danger but mental emotional legal etc... um sure there are exceptions I haven't thought of but essentially an example would be drinking to excess every day until your liver explodes ok. As long as you don't drive, go out in public, or abuse anyone when you drink. Ok Drinking and driving, drinking when you know it causes you to lose your temper and attack people etc... not ok
 
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Alexei_Kirillov

Alexei_Kirillov

More beast than man
Mar 9, 2024
1,268
Autonomy above everything else (gender, age, background, health status, motives)

I'm a firm believer that autonomy stands above everything else, so when talking about suicide, i don't care about the individuals health or age or motivies for wanting to die, I'm fine with anyone's decision for wanting to die no matter what
This is where I'm at too. In the hierarchy of values, my top tier is made up of 1) the prevention of suffering and 2) the autonomy of the individual (including minors) to decide for themselves whether their live is worth living. For me, there is also an undercurrent of weak pro-mortalism, in the sense that I believe in the asymmetry of pain and pleasure, so assuming there's nothing after death, the individual loses nothing by dying, and in fact gains something, because they will never have to suffer again.
 
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Alexandra0

Alexandra0

Don't Fear the Reaper
Sep 30, 2023
317
I believe that absolutely every person has the right to choose. Not everyone lives like in a fairy tale. For many, life is endless suffering. Suicide is undoubtedly a very difficult step in every sense. What a poor person who decided to cross the line has to feel. Not everyone can plan and implement their plan in life. I regret that the world is the way it is with its pain and hopelessness. I wholeheartedly support the right to euthanasia and assisted suicide
 
coked_pigeon

coked_pigeon

Member
Sep 21, 2023
12
If your life isn't yours to end, it was never yours to begin with.

I'm operating on the assumption that death is the permanent cessation of my subjective conscious experience. I have no reason to believe in any sort of deity or afterlife, and don't think religious or otherwise supernatural belief systems should have any bearing on the legal or moral status of suicide.

I think suicide is morally permissible in pretty much all cases, with the notable exception of parents, or people who create a structural dependency of comparable scale. This is probably because I'm also an antinatalist (though of course, antinatalism doesn't commit you to any one stance on death or suicide). In bringing a sentient/conscious being into the world or otherwise taking responsibility for its welfare (i.e., adoption), I believe you've forfeited your *moral* right to suicide. I still, however, support your *legal* right to suicide.

I think medical assistance in dying (MAID) should be available to any adult of sound mind, and find it extremely frustrating when the 'mental illness is jUsT aS vALiD as physical illness' crowd refuses to take their stance to its logical conclusion. Note that wanting to die does not make you inherently 'unsound' of mind and it's awfully convenient of pro-lifers to define these criteria as mutually exclusive. Suicide can be a rational and even ethically privileged response to life. My 'ideal' legal framework for MAID would involve a mandatory waiting period of say, six months to a year, during which professional counselling and other treatment options would be encouraged. If, at the end of that period, you still wanted to end your life, you would be able to do so peacefully, under medical supervision, hopefully surrounded by your loved ones, instead of spending your last moments terrified, alone, and in pain. I realize there are legitimate concerns regarding coercion and perverse incentives with MAID, particularly in cases of disability or terminal illness, but I'm 'hoping' that the waiting period would offset most of them.

In terms of current medical practice, I don't think that involuntary hospitalization is the right response to suicidal ideation or attempts. Research shows that people who were committed against their will are actually several times more likely to attempt and commit suicide, so it's counterproductive from the pro-life point of view as well. I imagine most people on this forum can relate when I say that I can never be honest about the extent of my suicidal ideation with anyone in my life for fear of being locked up. This is also a barrier for those who want recovery - if you can't be honest with your therapist or doctor, how can you get effective treatment?

In terms of media and speech, I don't think information about suicide should be censored. I see it as analogous to illicit drug use - while it may not be something we want to promote 'as a society', we (hopefully) recognize the value of harm reduction, which means having access to relevant data and research without moralizing on the subject. How many impulsive or agonizing (failed) attempts could have been prevented if the people involved had had easier access to suicide statistics (like the efficacy of various methods)? How many of us continue to suffer relentlessly because the relevant information is often under lock and key, let alone the actual chemicals? We can't even openly discuss sources on this forum for fear of getting them shut down. I also think it's pretty infantilizing when, for example, media outlets will avoid showing or describing how someone died if they took their own life, but won't leave out any details if they died under any other circumstance.

Overall my views align very closely with those of Sarah Perry, author of 'Every Cradle Is A Grave'. In the book, she discusses suicide rights at length, and dispels a lot of misinformation and propaganda on the subject. I'd highly recommend it for anyone interested in philosophical pessimism and birth and death ethics. I felt like I learned so much even as someone who was already committed to her conclusions.
 

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