Discussion What is your opinion about GOD in terms of the suffering of this world?

[Obliviate]

I was vegan for eight months and I want to get back to it, it was so difficult for me to maintain, but I agree that it is a better way for sure. I still have some vegan meals. Pretty soon I hope I won't have nay meals any more, so that will solve that issue.

I just wouldn't believe an nde based on homosexuality because I have several relatives and friends in this lifestyle who have excellent ethics, top of the line ethics, people who do all kinds of volunteering, donations, and sacrifice for others. I am hoping that the religious ones that say you'll go to hell for not having a certain religious belief aren't true. I tried brainwashing myself just in case to cover for this but I couldn't get myself to believe in a certain religion, t me it seems like there are too many contradictions.

I have actually thrown hundreds of worms off of sidewalks after a rain into the grass- hopefully this makes up for some of them that I impaled on hooks while fishing.

Awww I can sense your guilt. And yeah for me going vegan was the best thing I could have done. I could care less about my health it was soley to save the animals and so that hopefully can forgive me. And lol hopefully our last meals will be soon.

ANd yeah I watched an NDE where a lesbian woman claimed she went to hell because of her sexuality and then god saved her and when she was bought back she apparently no longer had those homosexual feelings. And that right there really pissed me off and I think she's lying to spread the whole oh your gonna go to hell cuz you're gay. Gay or not god should love you for you especially since these are feelings one cannot control and was born with so in a way god made them that way. Now I could be wrong but still that specific NDE made me more cautious of the others and also notice how 90% of them are all white Christians its a huge red flag for deceivement

 

[Someone123]

I don't believe in god as i was raised by atheist parents, and I wasn't baptized either, so I'm not a part of any religious community. I guess i didn't have to question myself about god and its purpose/existence very much.

I am also not religious, I don't believ in any organized religion, but near death experience stories from a variety of atheists have made me think that there is a good chance that we have a soul that lives on after our body dies- many of these ndes do not involve any particular religious belief, but they do usually refer to a higher being of some kind. But I do respect your right to be atheist.

Awww I can sense your guilt. And yeah for me going vegan was the best thing I could have done. I could care less about my health it was soley to save the animals and so that hopefully can forgive me. And lol hopefully our last meals will be soon.

ANd yeah I watched an NDE where a lesbian woman claimed she went to hell because of her sexuality and then god saved her and when she was bought back she apparently no longer had those homosexual feelings. And that right there really pissed me off and I think she's lying to spread the whole oh your gonna go to hell cuz you're gay. Gay or not god should love you for you especially since these are feelings one cannot control and was born with so in a way god made them that way. Now I could be wrong but still that specific NDE made me more cautious of the others and also notice how 90% of them are all white Christians its a huge red flag for deceivement

I think a lot of these "ndes" are actually vivid dreams that are naturally based on their beliefs- I think they are probably not usually meant to deceive but that they do contain inaccurate information. I have actually found many ndes on youtube that do not have a religious element and there are some from various races as well on there. I guess we won't know for sure until we get there. It's tough to know which ndes are real and which aren't, but I still think many of them are real.

 

[Un-]

If I leave the toddler in the kitchen and the toddler burns the house down and then I get mad at the toddler, which one of us was bad?
The unsupervised toddler who was left to their own devices or the parent me who knows in far greater depth the consequences that could lead to the toddler being left in the kitchen without a parent around.
Ummmm don't think the toddler is to blame..

Well, yeah. It's like that quote by.. Epicurus.. How God is malevolent. I'm probably dumb, but I feel like.. Having an overarching plan from the get-go, knowing full well the suffering that entails, is just cruel. Call me blasphemous, but what's the point of all of this? I don't know.

I'm not necessarily justifying Christianity. I'm just saying what I was taught, even though I'm known agnostic.


..
Although, I don't think that toddler analogy fully works. The idea behind the concept of Adam and Eve, for example, is that "man" sinned, even though he knew it was wrong. God told Eve not to eat the fruit - multiple times. He gave Eve jobs to do, tasks to fulfil, etcetera - to the extent where eating the forbidden fruit shouldn't even be a consideration. But she, and Adam, still did, knowing fully well God said they shouldn't, and knowing fully well the consequences. And that's the idea the Bible runs with, I think. That when you're past the age of knowing right against wrong in terms of Christ, actively doing wrong earns you no.. I guess "toddler points", if that makes sense.

In other words, your analogy sort of falls short because the toddler in your story can understand English, the idea of consequences and morality, and the parent has had signs plastered all over the kitchen to not burn the kitchen down. But the toddler does it anyway. I hope I'm making sense.

 

[Buffy5120]

Based on near deathb experiences it appears to me that there is likely a god and an afterlife. I believe that this god is all powerful but that he has given us free will which leads to horrible suffering for some people. I think it might be the case that god can't control every little thinhg that happens in the universe even though he created it, though maybe he could- god might be extremely powerful but might not be all powerful in the sense of being able to prevent all sufering in a place that also has free will. Anyway I look at it I am very sad that I was born into such a horrible situation compared to others around me, and that so many terrible things were done against me by people I tried to be nice to. I do wish god would do something to keep people and other living things from having lives this bad if he could, but in the next life we will likely get a life review and see why certain things happened that we don't understand now. Sometimes I qwonder- did I do some terrible things in a previous life so that this life is punishment for something from a previous life? I don't think that's it, but it does seem like a remote possibility. I think most of it was bad luck in being around such mean people, and being around nice people now is just too late.

"but in the next life we will likely get a life review and see why certain things happened that we don't understand now."
Does that include people that ctb or just for people that waited their whole life to die naturally? I really don't want to do this over again.

I'm back. Right so this question.. A lot of people bring up, and it frustrates me because... I feel like it's been answered a lot.



I'm not gonna ask you to watch the entire thing, but this is an excellent uh.. Mannerism to explain the reasoning (big words, heh). Like the person above me said, it's about Free Will. The idea that things like love, and happiness are meaningless if you forced whatever you created into that fashion. I think anyone can agree with that.

If you're a parent, and you force your children to say "I love you", and you force your children to do x, y, and z.. How do you know it comes from their heart? You don't. So, yes, God, in the Christian/Catholic sense, has the ability to stop all suffering and if He wanted to, He could obliterate Satan right now, but the reason He let events transpire the way they did was out of love for everything He created. Love that essentially means that.. "I love you so much, I want you to do whatever you want to".

The ideas of suffering, sin and death are caused directly because of Satan, and more so because of the rejection of God by humans. You can read more into how this all plays out, but that's essentially the reason behind that.. Why is there suffering.. Story.

I don't personally like it. I'd prefer to.. Y'know.. Not have been created at all. If not that, then I don't know why everyone has to suffer because of what two people did, supposedly. Which doesn't make sense because.. I believe in Darwinism and.. Yeah, it's messy.

so will people the ctb go to the afterlife or have to start all over?

 

[Someone123]

"but in the next life we will likely get a life review and see why certain things happened that we don't understand now."
Does that include people that ctb or just for people that waited their whole life to die naturally? I really don't want to do this over again.

A lot of ndes have stories about life reviews, about going through your life with someone else- in real time it doesn't seem to take much time but there is an element of timelessness that is talked about in the next life so that it is hard to tell how long it feels like- but I think that they qui9ckly reviewing certain high paints and low points and that it doesn't take that long, at least based on the ndes I have heard about. Some people say it's like reliving your whole life but very quickly, not sure about this. I have a lot of questinos about certain things that happened, to answer these would take hours, but since mental telepathy happens so quickly there it seems like it can take much less time.

 

[Buffy5120]

A lot of ndes have stories about life reviews, about going through your life with someone else- in real time it doesn't seem to take much time but there is an element of timelessness that is talked about in the next life so that it is hard to tell how long it feels like- but I think that they qui9ckly reviewing certain high paints and low points and that it doesn't take that long, at least based on the ndes I have heard about. Some people say it's like reliving your whole life but very quickly, not sure about this. I have a lot of questinos about certain things that happened, to answer these would take hours, but since mental telepathy happens so quickly there it seems like it can take much less time.

No I understand what your saying but Im saying people that killed themselves and didnt wait to die naturally, is it possible they will have the chance to go to the afterlife?

 

[Someone123]

No I understand what you saying but Im saying people that killed themselves and didnt wait to die naturally, is it possible they will have the chance to go to the afterlife?

Of course, many people who had suicide attempts nearly work have had ndes. Some people's religious beliefs are that you'll go to hell for this, but that doesn't seem fair or likely- so a person left because they went through the most abuse and now they'll go to hell fo rthis? It doesn't seem to make sense.

 

[Buffy5120]

Of course, many people who had suicide attempts nearly work have had ndes. Some people's religious beliefs are that you'll go to hell for this, but that doesn't seem fair or likely- so a person left because they went through the most abuse and now they'll go to hell fo rthis? It doesn't seem to make sense.

didnt the disciples commit suicide? and they made it to heaven right?

 

[Someone123]

didnt the disciples commit suicide? and they made it to heaven right?

Some account say Judas hanged himself, some say he fell- I'm not Christian, so who knows.

 

[gr1lledcheese]

I always wonder this. Like I believe in God but like Hello?!? where are you?!? Others say that he has left humanity to do as they please and then judgment day will come.

I don't believe in a Judgment Day. People came up with that idea to make themselves feel better when they don't see justice happening in their daily life. I suppose that's a grim way to think.

Exactly. Like where did god go? If god exists how can god just sit, watch and do nothing while evil reigns?

That's really interesting. I really do wonder if there are aliens and they just don't want to associate with humans because earth is a laughing stock or hell for them. I also wonder about other dimensions

Very insightful. When we die and let's say god does exist, I wonder what god will say or his reasoning behind all the suffering.

 

[Lauriso]

I'm something of a spiritual atheist. I don't believe in any deity watching over us, largely due to the suffering issue you talk about (known in theology as theodicy), and also my own experience of having zero evidence of any interventionist god existing or hearing my prayers.

That said, I'm not a materialist either - I don't believe consciousness is reducible to ANYTHING, and I find reductive materialism really logically flawed. To me it seems more likely that some kind of dualism (despite its (uncalled for) bad rep lately) or idealism will turn out to be true. Which means that an afterlife and survival of consciousness beyond physical death are plausible.

My favorite philosopher Tim Freke says that "god is not at the beginning of the universe, but at the end", meaning that there was no god who intentionally created this absurd and painful world, but we do see that everything, including consciousness, is evolving, so maybe in due time we will evolve into some sort of "supersoul", or as Tim puts it, "unividuals" (individuals conscious of unity). And maybe our conscious choice will become so powerful that we will eradicate all unnecessary suffering. This might sound like airy-fairy fantasy, but actually there is a decent amount of thought behind it, but I feel it would be too much for this comment.

 

[Celerity]

I've been an atheist for the past decade since around 19 years old. I was raised as a Southern Baptist. The Problem of Evil is not what sent me over the edge. The Fall of Man was enough of a cop-out for me. The lack of evidence for the events depicted in the Bible, its contradictions, and the Genesis account conflicting with physical reality set me on the path to Deism. At some point, I realized a clockwork universe god with no mercy or concern about my fate made prayer useless.

If God exists, it either doesn't care about the state of the world or is a sadist. Setting aside even human suffering, the natural world is a nightmare. That said, I am a hardcore materialist and monist. I don't waste my time with things that have no evidence in the hope that I might live forever.

 

[sunsetting]

I do believe in a higher power like God but I do not believe it's so simple like described in many religions just like the whole place of eternal suffering thing (hell) some religions believe in and use it as means to keep the people in check. It sounds scummy to use fear as the only means in order to be part of a religion.

No one knows how much of the holy scripture each religion has came directly from the divine or if it was just humans writing it without any of the divine inspiration some claim they have.

I believe the suffering in this world is caused by mankind itself, we as a species don't give a fuck about our peers and would gladly screw each other just to get a benefit. That's happening since the beginning of recorded history, maybe even before when we were all feral and running arround naked scavenging for food.