Close_to_freedom
Why the long face? Cause I don’t wanna live here.
- May 19, 2020
- 418
Soulless_Angel
existence is futile
- Jul 10, 2019
- 2,225
according to pro lifers, you are selfish and refusing to look at all the positives that life has, and so to them you are leavig a message of you are a coward!
Simba
Missunderstood Potato
- Dec 9, 2018
- 750
Close_to_freedom
Why the long face? Cause I don’t wanna live here.
- May 19, 2020
- 418
It's so annoying when they say that stupid shit.
SpottedPanda
I'm all about coffee and cigarettes
- Jul 24, 2019
- 612
I think it leaves the message, to any regular person, that the person committing suicide failed to cope with life, and struggled immensely with the pressures that life throws at us.
I don't think it's much of an assault on the world, in any case. Nor is getting angry at someone and then punching yourself in the face an outward statement.
I once read a quote, which said that getting angry and expecting a result for another is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop down dead. I couldn't kill myself when angry, let alone expect anybody to be harmed at my death.
Confusion and grief are not pleasant, but it's not something to be weaponized. People get over it, and are much more likely to feel sorry for someone who's passed, pitying them, than feel violated.
I don't think it's much of an assault on the world, in any case. Nor is getting angry at someone and then punching yourself in the face an outward statement.
I once read a quote, which said that getting angry and expecting a result for another is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to drop down dead. I couldn't kill myself when angry, let alone expect anybody to be harmed at my death.
Confusion and grief are not pleasant, but it's not something to be weaponized. People get over it, and are much more likely to feel sorry for someone who's passed, pitying them, than feel violated.
Alucard
Wizard
- Feb 8, 2019
- 606
randomz
Specialist
- Nov 4, 2019
- 395
I think the default message would be "I just couldn't do it" - and by "It" I mean life. If a person wants though, they can give their deaths a different and specific meaning which varies from person to person.
Lunarhour
Student
- May 15, 2020
- 137
"Our lives do not belong to anyone, nor do they belong to society or to state."
If the suicidal do not belong to a society, then why do they ask society to give them a peaceful death through euthanasia?
Why should society or the state care if you have nothing to offer but opposition, hopelessness and death.
That would depend on the specific circumstances.
The way it's usually understood is that it's some sort of betrayal of the living, the ultimate sign of weakness, mental derangement... Anything but proof of an impossible situation that was beyond the power of the dead person to change. Some even suspect it must be some kind of guilt-trip laid on them as if (almost) anyone would die just to annoy someone else.
The way it's usually understood is that it's some sort of betrayal of the living, the ultimate sign of weakness, mental derangement... Anything but proof of an impossible situation that was beyond the power of the dead person to change. Some even suspect it must be some kind of guilt-trip laid on them as if (almost) anyone would die just to annoy someone else.
ForensicallyAware
Specialist
- Feb 10, 2020
- 314
Life is a fate worse than death for some people and I just think they were eliminating a future of inevitably immense pain.
With others , while not wanting to judge, I think they had things to live for and I don't understand their choice.
But then again on one level life is not really worth it given the drudgery and small humiliations everyone has to cope with daily and the question shouldn't be why people kill themselves but why they don't .
With others , while not wanting to judge, I think they had things to live for and I don't understand their choice.
But then again on one level life is not really worth it given the drudgery and small humiliations everyone has to cope with daily and the question shouldn't be why people kill themselves but why they don't .
Last edited:
BitterlyAlive
---
- Apr 8, 2020
- 1,635
I believe that in most cases it simply leaves a message that the person has suffered enough and has taken their life into their own hands.
I suspect the OP's first language is not English and he might mean 'own' instead of 'belong'.
It would be a gigantic step forward if society didn't give a crap since this would mean there would be no interference. As to euthanasia: it's a sad state of affairs if you have to beg for your own death effected in the way you want. Sadly that is what it is: euthanasia isn't a right but a favour granted on the whim of the doctor who's asked.
Society doesn't even have to legalize and provide euthanasia: all it needs to do is to legalize the sale of certain lethal drugs and refrain from prosecuting anyone willing to assist the person in dying if they can't do it themselves. Problem solved.
So in your view society and the government only have duties towards their citizens if there is some kind of fair exchange? By that logic the destitute, sick and homeless who can't fend for themselves should not be helped at all.
Last edited:
Alucard
Wizard
- Feb 8, 2019
- 606
Do not confuse "being dependent on" and "belonging to".
We need to eat, etc., so we are dependent on society. But that does not imply that we belong to it: we are not things.
Why ask our torturer to release us when we pretend not to belong to our torturer? To defend our dignity.
But we can also deny our dignity, reify ourselves and accept to be the slave of society: this is what most people do.
We do not offer despair, we offer freedom.
Only serve society if you want to. Otherwise, die.
Ps : We don't ask the State or Society to help us... only that they let us die gently without prohibiting the means of peaceful death.
Last edited:
ugly_loser2008
Member
- Jul 30, 2018
- 73
I think people in general will be like "its about time", "he was a true loser" , "he hated himself to the core", "he really sucked at choices and life in general", "i can't blame him"
Alucard
Wizard
- Feb 8, 2019
- 606
Preamble
It is not a question of encouraging suicide but of defending the right to own one's life.
We are only truly in control of our life, if we can calmly put an end to it when we decide to.
Life is not a duty: living a life by constraint and not by personal decision is not in accordance with the human dignity.
Chapter 1 | Fighting the absurd: For living to become a deliberate choice.
We did not choose to be born. Life, at the start, is never a choice but a constraint: it is imposed on us.
In addition, we did not choose our body (genes, etc.) and our original social environment (economic, social and cultural capital).
Contingency => we could not have existed or existed otherwise, nothing ethically justifies being born and being the way we are.
Absurd => life only has the meaning we give to it. Building a world in which human dignity is respected is therefore our responsibility.
Not having concrete control over one's body and one's life amounts to undergoing an "existential rape". Not living by personal decision but with the fear of suffering by committing suicide is to live by constraint. Only the painless suicide right makes it possible to be a consenting living being.
Do not repeat the existential absurd with a social absurd = since we have not chosen to be born, let us choose to have a gentle death.
Chapter 2 | The possibility of painless suicide: an incentive to live
Not being able to calmly end your life when you decide to do so, is to be condemned to live. Limiting access to peaceful death methods, constitutes existential sequestration.
Paradoxically, knowing that we can, at any time, commit suicide without pain and without fear of failure allows us to appropriate our life and thus instills in us a feeling of freedom which prompts us to live.
"To commit suicide is not to choose death, but the moment of death. »(André Comte-Sponville). We are mortal: not anticipating death (so that it is peaceful and serene) amounts to denying mortality, not assuming the human condition.
Death is nothing (see Epicurus), because the dead no longer suffer. On the other hand, the dying can suffer because they are still alive. We must therefore distinguish the fear of death, irrational, from the fear of dying, rational.
Only the possibility of painless suicide can allow us without lies to overcome the fear of dying, to be both lucid and happy.
Chapter 3 | Living and dying in accordance with your dignity: refusing to suffer excessively.
All human beings are equally worthy (whatever their biological, psychological or social characteristics), all human beings deserve the same respect.
Universal income and the right to suicide, allow people to work and live by personal decision. => 1 / Working to survive is to living as a slave. 2 / Whether you work or not, you deserve to live and die with dignity.
One can fall a prey to intolerable suffering at any time: it is therefore prudent to have one's "suicide pill" to be able to escape excessive pain.
Every human being who dies deserves a peaceful suicide, in accordance with his dignity (whatever his reasons for committing suicide).
Every human beings have different existential experiences: I am not in others' places, I can't know what others feel. Thus, I can't define for others "good" and "bad" reasons for committing suicide: it is up to everyone to judge for themselves.
Every human being deserves to be able to escape quickly, serenely and peacefully from excessive suffering not in accordance with his dignity which he does not wish to endure.
Chapter 4 | Against the fallacies of religious fundamentalism
We are not things or creatures but human beings: our life belongs neither to God, nor to the State, nor to society, it belongs only to us.
The biblical injunction "thou shall not kill" prohibits abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide at the time: the Pro-Life ideology, by respecting this command to the letter whatever the consequences in terms of suffering, is dogmatic and fanatic.
If God creates and rules the world, even "evil" makes sense, which justifies all the horrors that human beings endure.
The religious idea that we deserve the misfortunes that come to us helps to endure suffering: this, from a religious perspective, is no longer arbitrary but has a meaning.
"I am the absolute source" (Merleau-Ponty): it is not God who makes the world be, but myself, as a consciousness. I am the one by whom it happens that there is a world.
Therefore, ethically, human beings are the source of values: good is what human beings want (to be respected as freedom) and evil is what human beings do not want ( be objectified, humiliated, tortured, etc.).
Chapter 5 | Against the guilt of suicide
Feeling guilty about suicide contributes to locking people up in life and can therefore encourage suicide (just as locking us up in a room, makes us want to get out).
Locking someone who wishes to die in the deprecative identity of "suicidal" is both reifying and malicious (one who is defined as "suicidal" will risk committing suicide to fit the definition given to him).
Those who wish to die, ashamed of being a "suicidal person", also risk fleeing shame through sadism (doing evil to assume their guilt ...) and / or masochism (punishing themselves for being the ones they are).
"I am not what I am" (Sartre). My psychological, biological or social characteristics do not define me: I am only a human being. Desiring to die, does not make me a "suicidal culprit".
Montaigne, against Pascal, shows that suicide is neither cowardly nor guilty: my life belongs to me and to die peacefully is nothing to condemn.
One can legitimately refuse a reality which one judges not to be in conformity with our dignity.
Chapter 6 | Against the logic of permanent entertainment which leads us to deny mortality ...
The state and society encourage us to live as if we were never going to die.
It is out of interest and to confirm their supremacy over us that the state and society prevent us from accessing the methods of peaceful death. 1 / For instrumentalists, we are manpower to exploit and make profitable by all means. 2 / The State, to keep us in its power, cannot let us peacefully take leave of existence when we want it (otherwise our life no longer belongs to it ...).
Because of the economic logic of competition and the absence of universal income, one does not work by deliberate choice, to improve the human condition, but only to survive and to enrich oneself, but one does not survive and you only get rich by overshadowing your competitors.
Without the right to painless suicide socially organized, the human being who wishes to die lives an experience of dereliction: society does not help him to end his life gently and without risk of failure, he is left to himself .
We have fun (see Blaise Pascal): we turn away from the problem of our mortality and thus refuse to draw the consequences which are the anticipation and the organization of death (so that the latter is no longer a source of suffering and becomes even a good time in life).
Quality of life is better than quantity.
Chapter 7 | Socially organize the right to painless suicide
Become "major" in the sense of the Enlightenment (cf. Kant): become the master of your life, decide for yourself whether you want to live or not.
Make suicide kits available to all legally adult humans.
Impose a waiting period to be certain that the person is committing suicide by deliberate choice and not by impulse or under pressure from others. Apply all necessary security measures to prevent any abuse.
Conclusion
We are not things, we are human beings ... Our life belongs to us.
The "existential claustrophobes", who need not to feel trapped in existence to be happy, deserve that their right to have their lives respected.
It is not a question of encouraging suicide but of defending the right to own one's life.
We are only truly in control of our life, if we can calmly put an end to it when we decide to.
Life is not a duty: living a life by constraint and not by personal decision is not in accordance with the human dignity.
Chapter 1 | Fighting the absurd: For living to become a deliberate choice.
We did not choose to be born. Life, at the start, is never a choice but a constraint: it is imposed on us.
In addition, we did not choose our body (genes, etc.) and our original social environment (economic, social and cultural capital).
Contingency => we could not have existed or existed otherwise, nothing ethically justifies being born and being the way we are.
Absurd => life only has the meaning we give to it. Building a world in which human dignity is respected is therefore our responsibility.
Not having concrete control over one's body and one's life amounts to undergoing an "existential rape". Not living by personal decision but with the fear of suffering by committing suicide is to live by constraint. Only the painless suicide right makes it possible to be a consenting living being.
Do not repeat the existential absurd with a social absurd = since we have not chosen to be born, let us choose to have a gentle death.
Chapter 2 | The possibility of painless suicide: an incentive to live
Not being able to calmly end your life when you decide to do so, is to be condemned to live. Limiting access to peaceful death methods, constitutes existential sequestration.
Paradoxically, knowing that we can, at any time, commit suicide without pain and without fear of failure allows us to appropriate our life and thus instills in us a feeling of freedom which prompts us to live.
"To commit suicide is not to choose death, but the moment of death. »(André Comte-Sponville). We are mortal: not anticipating death (so that it is peaceful and serene) amounts to denying mortality, not assuming the human condition.
Death is nothing (see Epicurus), because the dead no longer suffer. On the other hand, the dying can suffer because they are still alive. We must therefore distinguish the fear of death, irrational, from the fear of dying, rational.
Only the possibility of painless suicide can allow us without lies to overcome the fear of dying, to be both lucid and happy.
Chapter 3 | Living and dying in accordance with your dignity: refusing to suffer excessively.
All human beings are equally worthy (whatever their biological, psychological or social characteristics), all human beings deserve the same respect.
Universal income and the right to suicide, allow people to work and live by personal decision. => 1 / Working to survive is to living as a slave. 2 / Whether you work or not, you deserve to live and die with dignity.
One can fall a prey to intolerable suffering at any time: it is therefore prudent to have one's "suicide pill" to be able to escape excessive pain.
Every human being who dies deserves a peaceful suicide, in accordance with his dignity (whatever his reasons for committing suicide).
Every human beings have different existential experiences: I am not in others' places, I can't know what others feel. Thus, I can't define for others "good" and "bad" reasons for committing suicide: it is up to everyone to judge for themselves.
Every human being deserves to be able to escape quickly, serenely and peacefully from excessive suffering not in accordance with his dignity which he does not wish to endure.
Chapter 4 | Against the fallacies of religious fundamentalism
We are not things or creatures but human beings: our life belongs neither to God, nor to the State, nor to society, it belongs only to us.
The biblical injunction "thou shall not kill" prohibits abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide at the time: the Pro-Life ideology, by respecting this command to the letter whatever the consequences in terms of suffering, is dogmatic and fanatic.
If God creates and rules the world, even "evil" makes sense, which justifies all the horrors that human beings endure.
The religious idea that we deserve the misfortunes that come to us helps to endure suffering: this, from a religious perspective, is no longer arbitrary but has a meaning.
"I am the absolute source" (Merleau-Ponty): it is not God who makes the world be, but myself, as a consciousness. I am the one by whom it happens that there is a world.
Therefore, ethically, human beings are the source of values: good is what human beings want (to be respected as freedom) and evil is what human beings do not want ( be objectified, humiliated, tortured, etc.).
Chapter 5 | Against the guilt of suicide
Feeling guilty about suicide contributes to locking people up in life and can therefore encourage suicide (just as locking us up in a room, makes us want to get out).
Locking someone who wishes to die in the deprecative identity of "suicidal" is both reifying and malicious (one who is defined as "suicidal" will risk committing suicide to fit the definition given to him).
Those who wish to die, ashamed of being a "suicidal person", also risk fleeing shame through sadism (doing evil to assume their guilt ...) and / or masochism (punishing themselves for being the ones they are).
"I am not what I am" (Sartre). My psychological, biological or social characteristics do not define me: I am only a human being. Desiring to die, does not make me a "suicidal culprit".
Montaigne, against Pascal, shows that suicide is neither cowardly nor guilty: my life belongs to me and to die peacefully is nothing to condemn.
One can legitimately refuse a reality which one judges not to be in conformity with our dignity.
Chapter 6 | Against the logic of permanent entertainment which leads us to deny mortality ...
The state and society encourage us to live as if we were never going to die.
It is out of interest and to confirm their supremacy over us that the state and society prevent us from accessing the methods of peaceful death. 1 / For instrumentalists, we are manpower to exploit and make profitable by all means. 2 / The State, to keep us in its power, cannot let us peacefully take leave of existence when we want it (otherwise our life no longer belongs to it ...).
Because of the economic logic of competition and the absence of universal income, one does not work by deliberate choice, to improve the human condition, but only to survive and to enrich oneself, but one does not survive and you only get rich by overshadowing your competitors.
Without the right to painless suicide socially organized, the human being who wishes to die lives an experience of dereliction: society does not help him to end his life gently and without risk of failure, he is left to himself .
We have fun (see Blaise Pascal): we turn away from the problem of our mortality and thus refuse to draw the consequences which are the anticipation and the organization of death (so that the latter is no longer a source of suffering and becomes even a good time in life).
Quality of life is better than quantity.
Chapter 7 | Socially organize the right to painless suicide
Become "major" in the sense of the Enlightenment (cf. Kant): become the master of your life, decide for yourself whether you want to live or not.
Make suicide kits available to all legally adult humans.
Impose a waiting period to be certain that the person is committing suicide by deliberate choice and not by impulse or under pressure from others. Apply all necessary security measures to prevent any abuse.
Conclusion
We are not things, we are human beings ... Our life belongs to us.
The "existential claustrophobes", who need not to feel trapped in existence to be happy, deserve that their right to have their lives respected.
TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,715
Excellent video and the guy is well spoken. He articulates my thoughts very well, especially about society and it's constraints, better than I could and in better language.
Last edited:
RestingGirl23
Member
- Nov 2, 2019
- 55
I'll be really honest, I don't think suicide leaves any message other than you're dead.
lostangel
Enlightened
- Mar 22, 2019
- 1,051
I think the majority of people will think that person had mental problems and could've been helped. Which is not always the case. Bottom line is people will forget and move on.
Alucard
Wizard
- Feb 8, 2019
- 606
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
Suicide doesn't leave any message. People make their own meaning out of others' suicides.
Even if one leaves a note, people are still going to make their own meaning.
Someone could write, "I did it as a fuck you to the world." Whoever reads it could accept that, or just as easily (and more likely) say, "S/he didn't really mean that, they just needed [fill in the blank] and didn't get it/have it."
Even if one leaves a note, people are still going to make their own meaning.
Someone could write, "I did it as a fuck you to the world." Whoever reads it could accept that, or just as easily (and more likely) say, "S/he didn't really mean that, they just needed [fill in the blank] and didn't get it/have it."
DeathIsTheWayOut99
Warlock
- Jun 6, 2020
- 798
For me I want my message to be
"to everyone that abused and hurt me, fuck you. You did this to me. If you fuckers hadn't hurt me the way you did I would be much happier. I hope you're now happier at my expense"
"to everyone that abused and hurt me, fuck you. You did this to me. If you fuckers hadn't hurt me the way you did I would be much happier. I hope you're now happier at my expense"
Thissss 100000%
MeriDeath
Im on the edge of reality
- May 10, 2020
- 213
Very simple my friend , let me do the explanation
Suicide in a world where we are supposed to die some day is inevitable.
It means Purely, I've done everything, I've tried everything, but I don't fit anywhere and I let myself free now which is not a bad thing, basically means life is not sacred and people should stop shoving their noses if one has come to the decision he can't tolerate life anymore, also I believe it conveys a strong message about mental health problems, some people suffer so much that no therapy or medication can do the job, quite unique but it does exist.
My body ,my choice, which also means free choice. I don't belong to anyone and neither does my body.
And that's about it.
Suicide in a world where we are supposed to die some day is inevitable.
It means Purely, I've done everything, I've tried everything, but I don't fit anywhere and I let myself free now which is not a bad thing, basically means life is not sacred and people should stop shoving their noses if one has come to the decision he can't tolerate life anymore, also I believe it conveys a strong message about mental health problems, some people suffer so much that no therapy or medication can do the job, quite unique but it does exist.
My body ,my choice, which also means free choice. I don't belong to anyone and neither does my body.
And that's about it.
Alucard
Wizard
- Feb 8, 2019
- 606
Similar threads
- deadeyesnowman
- Suicide Discussion
Suicide Discussion
deadeyesnowman
Discussion
Insurance advice?
- thirdtimesthecharmg
- Suicide Discussion
Suicide Discussion
alce
