Discussion What is prefable Xanax or Klonopin to inhibit survival instinct when attempting SN?

[Silent Forrest]

What is prefable Xanax or Klonopin to inhibit Survival Instinct? when atttempting SN with antiemetics, proton pump inhibtors, and betablockers.
I'm looking for that quick black out, i dont even know or care what's happening effect.
I would also like to stop any seizures from happening, as i've read that SN can cause seizures.

 

[Euthanza]

I choose xanax because it's more familiar and already available here with me.

Both are short acting. Clonazepam is stronger and can treat seizure which xanax can't do, but xanax react faster than clonazepam. So I think you would take Clonazepam if available.

 

[artpopbestalbum]

Clonazepam it's shit strong medication, If you take a little too much, it's likely for you to actually not do it, by getting numbed by the medication.

 

[k1w1]

Yep.....if you are not tolerant then 4mgs of Klonopin....wait 20 mins then begin the job at hand. Xanax is qhick as the above poster said but it wears off rapidly too.

 

[aladdin]

Yep.....if you are not tolerant then 4mgs of Klonopin....wait 20 mins then begin the job at hand. Xanax is qhick as the above poster said but it wears off rapidly too.

So the only difference is in duration of action? Klonopin lasts longer?

 

[well2hell]

I choose xanax because it's more familiar and already available here with me.

Both are short acting. Clonazepam is stronger and can treat seizure which xanax can't do, but xanax react faster than clonazepam. So I think you would take Clonazepam if available.

Clonazepam is not short-acting — it has a duration of action of 8 to 12 hours and a half-life of 30 to 40 hours.

In comparison, alprazolam (Xanax) has a duration of action of 6 hours and a half-life of 6 to 27 hours (mean 11 h in healthy subjects).

 

[hopelessgirl]

I will use Oxazepam just because that is what I am used to. I know I will black out after just 3 of them so.

 

[PArazi]

IMO, In this case, the half-life of benzo does not matter, but the time of action. I don't believe that any commercial drug (oral) can put you to sleep before the SN knocks u out.

Basically Xanax have no anticonvulsant effect. To prevent SI, Xanax seems to be the best choice, because have strong and rapid effect on anxiety. Despite this, almost have no hypnotic effect. I don't think it's a good idea to try sleeping with another drug in the SN case. IMO, a higher dose of xanax could be better.

To reduce seizures, clonazepam and diazepam may be good choices. Or CBD... Within seconds it is in ur brain and spreads throughout ur body.

And again, no one oral/comercial drug (imo) can put you out before sn consume ur oxygen. Flunitrazepam, clonazepam, zopiclone, eszopiclone, zoplidem. There are reports of people who can withstand the hypnotic effect of these drugs even when mixed with alcohol. Prevent vomit+xanax+propra+sn. And perhaps cimetidine to move the SN down to the lower parts of the gut, where perhaps it can be better absorbed (have no sure).

 

[Snatsbats]

I tried xanax. Like 2.5mg when i attempted. I would not recommend such a high dose. I couldnt think straight anymore. I couldnt get straight why i was attempting again. So i will go with 1mg next time

 

[well2hell]

IMO, In this case, the half-life of benzo does not matter, but the time of action. I don't believe that any commercial drug (oral) can put you to sleep before the SN knocks u out.

Basically Xanax have no anticonvulsant effect. To prevent SI, Xanax seems to be the best choice, because have strong and rapid effect on anxiety. Despite this, almost have no hypnotic effect. I don't think it's a good idea to try sleeping with another drug in the SN case. IMO, a higher dose of xanax could be better.

To reduce seizures, clonazepam and diazepam may be good choices. Or CBD... Within seconds it is in ur brain and spreads throughout ur body.

And again, no one oral/comercial drug (imo) can put you out before sn consume ur oxygen. Flunitrazepam, clonazepam, zopiclone, eszopiclone, zoplidem. There are reports of people who can withstand the hypnotic effect of these drugs even when mixed with alcohol. Prevent vomit+xanax+propra+sn. And perhaps cimetidine to move the SN down to the lower parts of the gut, where perhaps it can be better absorbed (have no sure).

I agree that the choice of the benzodiazepine should be conditioned on 1) the time to onset of action and 2) if possible, it being an anticonvulsant.

That said, the doses that the PPeH and the American Clinicians' Academy for Medical Aid in Dying (ACAMAID) call for — respectively 500mg or 1g diazepam — are so large that I expect they would put one to sleep very quickly, as soon as they start being absorbed from the gut.

According to the ACAMAID's data, the average time to sleep is less than 8 minutes with their 5 drug lethal mixture (100mg digoxin, 1g diazepam, 15g morphine, 8g amitriptyline and 5g phenobarbital). It is of course difficult to tease out the effect of diazepam on inducing sleep from the other drugs, but since digoxin is not sedative (it can be taken 30 minutes before the other drugs) and since morphine delays gastric emptying, it could be that the time to sleep with SN + metoclopramide + diazepam is short too — maybe 10-15 minutes. We need more data on this.

Note that the PPeH calls for either diazepam or oxazepam but the latter has a slow onset of action, so in my view it should be avoided.

I disagree that the duration of action / elimination half-life of the benzodiazepine is not important. We do not have any evidence on the time to death with SN so, in my view, it is important to use a longer acting benzodiazepine to make sure that one does not wake up or have a rebound seizure when the benzodiazepine wears off. Diazepam and clonazepam, in this order, would be the best bets.

Finally, because of the above, it is counteproductive to take propanolol with SN: see this post and the ones that follow.

 

[well2hell]

Come to think of it, why not combine:

- a large dose of a long-acting, anticonvulsant and hypnotic benzodiazepine but that has a longer onset of action

- a smaller dose of a short-acting but fast onset hypnotic benzodiazepine like triazolam (Halcion), temazepam (Restoril) or alprazolam (Xanax)?

The second prevents SI and induces sleep quickly, while the first prevents seizures and maintains sleep all the way until death.

 

[PArazi]

Come to think of it, why not combine:

- a large dose of a long-acting, anticonvulsant and hypnotic benzodiazepine but that has a longer onset of action

- a smaller dose of a short-acting but fast onset hypnotic benzodiazepine like triazolam (Halcion), temazepam (Restoril) or alprazolam (Xanax)?

The second prevents SI and induces sleep quickly, while the first prevents seizures and maintains sleep all the way until death.

Midazolam/flunitrazepam+diazepam/clonazepam could be good choices. Mida has more sedative effect. Tends to slow down heart rate.

A combination of benzos can be bad if vomiting comes early. But even if you absorb a little SN, if you get fast in coma, it is likely to be advantageous, just taking longer to finish. However, still peacefully.

I say we shouldn't worry about benzo half-life because I imagine that the time (SN job) does not exceed 2-6 hours. But but personally I never liked the SN method. I'm just opining, or even worse than that.

About the propranolol and atrial fibrillation, seizures (more doubts about that), until IMO, tend to happen in the first few minutes/hrs. After that the body "gives up". About the doses above the medical recommendation, as may be the case with propranolol, It doesn't scare me that it could have the opposite effect, considering its synergistic effect with SN, could it be really natural that more intense effects of anxiety/panic (vomiting, defecation, urination). The heart responds very quickly when subjected to stress. And the intensity of symptoms can really vary from person to person.

I was surprised when I saw that they were not recommending propranolol in SN method. But I know that it is a very strong drug. At the same time I always understood that, for the SN method to work well, we must stabilize the body and mind. SN does the rest.
((Im not native speaker))

My method is not complete and im not ready yet, but I have 9.7g of amitriptiline, 1ml of fentanyl, 600mg diazepam.

 

[well2hell]

Midazolam/flunitrazepam+diazepam/clonazepam could be good choices. Mida has more sedative effect. Tends to slow down heart rate.

A combination of benzos can be bad if vomiting comes early. But even if you absorb a little SN, if you get fast in coma, it is likely to be advantageous, just taking longer to finish. However, still peacefully.

I say we shouldn't worry about benzo half-life because I imagine that the time (SN job) does not exceed 2-6 hours. But but personally I never liked the SN method. I'm just opining, or even worse than that.

About the propranolol and atrial fibrillation, seizures (more doubts about that), until IMO, tend to happen in the first few minutes/hrs. After that the body "gives up". About the doses above the medical recommendation, as may be the case with propranolol, It doesn't scare me that it could have the opposite effect, considering its synergistic effect with SN, could it be really natural that more intense effects of anxiety/panic (vomiting, defecation, urination). The heart responds very quickly when subjected to stress. And the intensity of symptoms can really vary from person to person.

I was surprised when I saw that they were not recommending propranolol in SN method. But I know that it is a very strong drug. At the same time I always understood that, for the SN method to work well, we must stabilize the body and mind. SN does the rest.
((Im not native speaker))

My method is not complete and im not reaady yet, but I have 9.7g of amitriptiline, 1ml of fentanyl, 600mg diazepam.

Interesting that you are trying a do-it-yourself DDMA(Ph) mixture. If you cannot find digoxin, (hydroxy)chloroquine is a viable alternative as it is very cardiotoxic too (see the PPeH).

Regarding propanolol, the American Clinicians' Academy for Medical Aid in Dying does not recommend it anymore because their data clearly indicate that tachycardia leads to a quicker death than bradycardia: https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/12-5-19-DDMA-instead-of-DDMP2.pdf

I believe Dr Nitschke must have come to terms with the ACAMAID's conclusion, hence the update of the PPeH where propanolol has been removed too.

Regarding benzodiazepines, after searching the literature, it would seem that cardiac arrest occurs soon after passing out from SN — about an hour after ingestion. In his guide, Stan indicated anywhere from 40 minutes to 4 hours but he did not provide any source for this information. Therefore, I may be wrong — an intermediate-acting benzodiazepine that prevents seizures like lorazepam could do the job very well.

It may be better to take a normal dose of benzodiazepine (or slightly more) one hour ahead of time, as long as it is not too sedating, and then take the large dose along with SN. Not only would this reduce anxiety and SI, it may also prevent seizures that could occur shortly after taking SN as you have noted.

 

[PArazi]

Interesting that you are trying a do-it-yourself DDMA(Ph) mixture. If you cannot find digoxin, (hydroxy)chloroquine is a viable alternative as it is very cardiotoxic too (see the PPeH).

I always liked the AM cocktail. but I don't think the DDMAPh is so cool. I like the idea of being able to put everything in a small box. Also I like to think that I can develop my own method. IMO, PPH for being a pocket book and a practical guide has its limitations. For ex, I can buy as many boxes of chloroquine as I want. Digoxin, propranolol and others. And I can still go to BM. PPH doesn't know that :D

In my head, the least I would use: antiemetic+amitriptiline+cimetidine+diazepam+1.5-3ml IV fenta. And maybe alcohol. I think of high doses of fenta as a certainty and a good sleep. Or maybe I choose just 2g cimetidine+5ml of fent in my vein.

How many ml of fenta should I drink(oral) to be sure? Above 6ml (pure). They say that fenta can makes you sleep better than N.

 

[well2hell]

I always liked the AM cocktail. but I don't think the DDMAPh is so cool. I like the idea of being able to put everything in a small box. Also I like to think that I can develop my own method. IMO, PPH for being a pocket book and a practical guide has its limitations. For ex, I can buy as many boxes of chloroquine as I want. Digoxin, propranolol and others. And I can still go to BM. PPH doesn't know that :D

In my head, the least I would use: antiemetic+amitriptiline+cimetidine+diazepam+1.5-3ml IV fenta. And maybe alcohol. I think of high doses of fenta as a certainty and a good sleep. Or maybe I choose just 2g cimetidine+5ml of fent in my vein.

How many ml of fenta should I drink(oral) to be sure? Above 6ml (pure). They say that fenta can makes you sleep better than N.

The PPeH can definitely be used as a blueprint. It proposes different "bricks" that you can build a protocol with: benzos put you to sleep gently, opioids make for a pleasant death, cardiotoxic drugs like digoxin or amitriptyline cause a cardiac arrest, and of course an antiemetic prevents you from rejecting any drug per os.

Good idea to potentiate amitriptyline with cimetidine.

What is the concentration of your fentanyl liquid? Since fentanyl is about 100 times as potent as morphine and the ACAMAID calls for 15 grams of morphine, you would need 150mg fentanyl. That said, unless you have a tolerance to opioids (which is the case of terminally ill patients that the ACAMAID helps), 150mg is probably overkill since 2mg is reportedly a fatal dose. For an opioid naive user, I believe 20-30mg fentanyl should be more than enough.

 

[PArazi]

What is the concentration of your fentanyl liquid? Since fentanyl is about 100 times as potent as morphine and the ACAMAID calls for 15 grams of morphine, you would need 150mg fentanyl. That said, unless you have a tolerance to opioids (which is the case of terminally ill patients that the ACAMAID helps), 150mg is probably overkill since 2mg is reportedly a fatal dose. For an opioid naive user, I believe 20-30mg fentanyl should be more than enough.

0.05/ml, 10ml bottle. I speak in milligrams of pure fenta. I have 1ml. I have heard that a heavy user can handle 25ml of liquid fentanyl (0.05/ml). That is, 1.5ml of fentanyl. But I'm not sure about that. None.

 

[well2hell]

0.05/ml, 10ml bottle. I speak in milligrams of pure fenta. I have 1ml. I have heard that a heavy user can handle 25ml of liquid fentanyl (0.05/ml). That is, 1.5ml of fentanyl. But I'm not sure about that. None.

There's an unit missing - do you mean 0.05 mg/mL? If you have 1mL, this equates to 0.05mg fentanyl which isn't enough. If you have 1mg, then that means you already have 2x 10mL bottles. Which is the right one?

Fentanyl is extremely potent so tolerance builds up very quickly. This is why someone may start with a microgram dose and end up at a milligram dose without overdosing (it just takes a few days of continuous usage).

What is difficult with online reports is that people often do not clearly state their level of tolerance, so this is misleading to opioid naive users who will then think they can handle more fentanyl than they actually can. This is the fastest way to overdosing.

So, for your own safety, do not assume that fentanyl dosages you read about online apply to you.

 

[PArazi]

There's an unit missing - do you mean 0.05 mg/mL? If you have 1mL, this equates to 0.05mg fentanyl which isn't enough. If you have 1mg, then that means you already have 2x 10mL bottles. Which is the right one?

I have two bottles of 10mL. 0,05 per mL.

https://portal6.com.br/wp-content/u...ge-2022-07-14-at-10.09.00-e1657807669313.jpeg

 

[PArazi]

There's an unit missing - do you mean 0.05 mg/mL? If you have 1mL, this equates to 0.05mg fentanyl which isn't enough. If you have 1mg, then that means you already have 2x 10mL bottles. Which is the right one?

What is difficult with online reports is that people often do not clearly state their level of tolerance, so this is misleading to opioid naive users who will then think they can handle more fentanyl than they actually can. This is the fastest way to overdosing.

I understood my mistake with your explanation. I would use at least 5 bottles of 10mL. 0,05*50mL=2.5mg fenta.

I could easily do this: serum bag. But I confess that drinking would be better. Antiemetic+cimetidine+ami+fenta. Maybe a small dose of ami (5g). My heart is very weak (cardiac class II-III). Or maybe opt for 10 bottles of 10 mL of fenta (oral) 5mg, with cimetidine. Would it be enough? I have zero opioid resistance. It would be easier to hide those bottles than anything else.

As far as I know fenta has a short half life, so would be good to change this scenario.

 

[well2hell]

I understood my mistake with your explanation. I would use at least 5 bottles of 10mL. 0,05*50mL=2.5mg fenta.

I could easily do this
serum bag

But I confess that drinking would be better. Antiemetic+cimetidine+ami+fenta. Maybe a small dose of ami (5g). My heart is very weak (cardiac class II-III). Or maybe I opt for 10 bottles of 10 mL of fenta (oral) 5mg, with cimetidine. Would it be enough? I have zero opioid resistance. It would be easier to hide those bottles than anything else.

Death by opioid overdose is said to be slow so I would stick with your current protocol. With no tolerance at all, 2.5mg fentanyl should be enough in theory, but you may to err on the side of caution and bump it up to 5mg.

I would not lower the dose of amitriptyline — given your heart problems, it may shorten the time to death, which is of course desirable.

 

[mighthavebeen]

I agree that the choice of the benzodiazepine should be conditioned on 1) the time to onset of action and 2) if possible, it being an anticonvulsant.

That said, the doses that the PPeH and the American Clinicians' Academy for Medical Aid in Dying (ACAMAID) call for — respectively 500mg or 1g diazepam — are so large that I expect they would put one to sleep very quickly, as soon as they start being absorbed from the gut.

According to the ACAMAID's data, the average time to sleep is less than 8 minutes with their 5 drug lethal mixture (100mg digoxin, 1g diazepam, 15g morphine, 8g amitriptyline and 5g phenobarbital). It is of course difficult to tease out the effect of diazepam on inducing sleep from the other drugs, but since digoxin is not sedative (it can be taken 30 minutes before the other drugs) and since morphine delays gastric emptying, it could be that the time to sleep with SN + metoclopramide + diazepam is short too — maybe 10-15 minutes. We need more data on this.

Note that the PPeH calls for either diazepam or oxazepam but the latter has a slow onset of action, so in my view it should be avoided.

I disagree that the duration of action / elimination half-life of the benzodiazepine is not important. We do not have any evidence on the time to death with SN so, in my view, it is important to use a longer acting benzodiazepine to make sure that one does not wake up or have a rebound seizure when the benzodiazepine wears off. Diazepam and clonazepam, in this order, would be the best bets.

Finally, because of the above, it is counteproductive to take propanolol with SN: see this post and the ones that follow.

Thanks for this info