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anagram

anagram

Suicide: permanent solution to permanent problems
Feb 4, 2024
154
- The mind and everything it does is a desperate attempt to somehow still cling to life. The people who overthink death are the least likely to commit suicide because of their ego/survival script preventing them from doing so. For some people, the mind will paradoxically do anything to distract them from death. This is the self preservation script.

- They're too focused on other people and their ego rather than thinking pragmatically about how they are going to kill themselves.

- The mind loves to get lost in its own bs and I realised this about myself.

- Doesn't help that death is basically against the mind's survival script. The sober mind's script will always have a bias towards survival. There's also been cases known that when people do intensive meditation, sometimes they also commit suicide. Think of advanced meditators, monks and self immolators. They're operating on a level beyond their mind's script.

- Sure the mind can think of death abstractly but the lived experience of death is what the mind fears the most. That's why so many sedate themselves on a cocktail of drugs before going through with suicide. This includes drugs such as SSRIs, benzodiazepines, alcohol and other drugs I don't know of. These drugs bypass the mind's resistance to death. Many people also kill themselves while on psychedelics.

- The people who go through with suicide for real are actually kinda brave because they overpower their biologically programmed primal will to live and their own minds/egos that counterintuitively prevent them from their own suicide. It's either that or they have easy, accessible means to die peacefully.

- Suicide is easier to do in a hyper logical, detached state where you don't self sabotage yourself with fear and unnecessary thoughts or emotions.

- In the ancient world, suicide was actually praised and preached by philosophers. Stoic texts have a positive view of suicide. Japanese people did seppuku to preserve honour. The bible didn't really condemn suicide. Early Christians committed suicide to escape persecution I think.

- whatever the unaware sober mind does, even failed suicide attempts, is still an unconscious will to live. Even giving off signs of suicidality means that deep down, a part of you doesn't want to die in hopes of someone saving you. It's more of a cry for help and a cry for their life circumstances to change rather than for death.

- The sober unaware mind will unconsciously do anything to ensure it's own survival and you won't realise it until you reflect on it. The ego mind/self survival script is sneaky like that.

- suicide is such a shock to regular people because they have a certain life setup that prevents them from deviating from the script too much. They're too embedded in the social matrix. It's all a social matrix game. If you're too woke or too aware, you'll gravitate towards suicide more.

- The true self is beyond thoughts, emotions and script. Many people commit suicide on antidepressants because it gives them a certain amount of clarity, energy and detachment to go through with their own plans.

- The people who talk the most about committing suicide and make a show out of it are the ones who usually don't do it. The ones who openly talk about it are basically asking for pro lifers to psy-op them into living and thus adding extra resistance in their mind against experiencing death. In fact, they're probably the ones who cling to life the most. It's mainly the people who keep it a secret who do it.

- imo, Victim mentality is the worst mentality to have if you're seriously considering suicide. There are many ways to die it's just that there is resistance in the mind against death for real. There's always a way to die it's just my fault for being too scared. Yes, nobody deserves what you went through but you still have the power to choose between life (recovery) or death. At a certain point, you're at a crossroad choosing between both options after you've fully come to terms with the trauma and pain you've experienced. Choose wisely.

- Must leave this world with a light heart and not many regrets. Exhausting all desires. Bucket list type thing.

- Psych wards restrict the environment so much to make suicide as difficult as possible. Still, many desperate souls still manage to die. Now imagine being in a normal environment. The chances of dying are much higher

- My point is that suicide is always possible if u strongly need it. Psych wards even take shoelaces away from you since u can just wrap that stuff around ur neck and die.

- I myself am guilty of delaying my suicide but this is all of what I realized after reflecting upon it and being honest with myself.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,942
Really interesting list of claims and positions about suicide and CTB! I agree with a lot of them, but maybe not all of them. I think it depends on the person expressing their want and desire to die (sure, there are people who talk a lot about CTB, but end up not going through though I would think people who do still end up CTB'ing but just want to express their thoughts before going through). I'm a bit gray on the fact that CTB is always possible if one wants it badly enough. Sure there are people who when it's bad enough (relative to their predicament of course), they will be desperate enough to attempt risky methods, but there is still the factor of failure, even if they did overcome their own self preservation instinct, if they executed poorly or are intervened against and such, they would still fail and end up in a worse position (permanent injuries, even MORE scrutiny and heightened monitoring, etc.) with even less chance of escaping suffering. Physically speaking, people who are severely physically disabled (late stage ALS, SCI and paralysis, MS, severe stroke, etc.) just wouldn't have the means to do so, and while people could say they could just refuse food and water, it would be very difficult to do so if one was under the care of a health professional almost 24/7, and doing such would require one to be undisturbed and without intervention for long stretches of time indefinitely. Granted those are rare cases, they do in fact, exist.

Anyways, I still agree with most of your points and I like the fact that you brought up historic examples such as the ancient world and other cultures, as it shows that historically, CTB is not/was not as taboo as it is in today's world.
 
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AnderDethsky

AnderDethsky

/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿(╥﹏╥)
Oct 19, 2024
108
How well said, can't add or take away, a wonderful compilation of thoughts.

A lot of what was said was so familiar to me, and some of it made me think.
The people who talk the most about committing suicide and make a show out of it are the ones who usually don't do it.
I even felt embarrassed about it. I wouldn't say I'm very talkative in public about suicide, but I've dedicated a bunch of memes, art and even my own music to suicide (one track and a few others I'm preparing to drop in the near future). I always thought that expressing my feelings in music and art in general helps to cope with them.

And so , it seems I'm stuck here in this repulsive place like life for longer than I think.
 
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anagram

anagram

Suicide: permanent solution to permanent problems
Feb 4, 2024
154
Really interesting list of claims and positions about suicide and CTB! I agree with a lot of them, but maybe not all of them. I think it depends on the person expressing their want and desire to die (sure, there are people who talk a lot about CTB, but end up not going through though I would think people who do still end up CTB'ing but just want to express their thoughts before going through). I'm a bit gray on the fact that CTB is always possible if one wants it badly enough. Sure there are people who when it's bad enough (relative to their predicament of course), they will be desperate enough to attempt risky methods, but there is still the factor of failure, even if they did overcome their own self preservation instinct, if they executed poorly or are intervened against and such, they would still fail and end up in a worse position (permanent injuries, even MORE scrutiny and heightened monitoring, etc.) with even less chance of escaping suffering. Physically speaking, people who are severely physically disabled (late stage ALS, SCI and paralysis, MS, severe stroke, etc.) just wouldn't have the means to do so, and while people could say they could just refuse food and water, it would be very difficult to do so if one was under the care of a health professional almost 24/7, and doing such would require one to be undisturbed and without intervention for long stretches of time indefinitely. Granted those are rare cases, they do in fact, exist.

Anyways, I still agree with most of your points and I like the fact that you brought up historic examples such as the ancient world and other cultures, as it shows that historically, CTB is not/was not as taboo as it is in today's world.
yeh my claims aren't some universal truth or something id like to see a different view. Mainly found this stuff out by just being honest with myself and my behaviours. Mostly speaking for myself but others may relate.

The point you mentioned of people with debilitating health conditions is brutal because it's likely life just threw a curveball and suddenly they lost all control. VSED wouldn't really be an option like you said.

And yeh like you said, CTBing is like a grey area between discussing it, figuring it out and actually doing it. Should be a balance. Before i used to talk so much of doing it but deep down i was scared. There's some people who just instinctually know what they need to do to die tho i think
I even felt embarrassed about it. I wouldn't say I'm very talkative in public about suicide, but I've dedicated a bunch of memes, art and even my own music to suicide (one track and a few others I'm preparing to drop in the near future). I always thought that expressing my feelings in music and art in general helps to cope with them.

And so , it seems I'm stuck here in this repulsive place like life for longer than I think.
Same to be honest. Instead i used to write a lot of suicide notes. But i never even went through with it. I feel like i'm cursed by my own inaction. I feel like i'm just romanticising death and suicide but im not actually walking the talk. Sort of like being all bark no bite.
Also id like to hear ur tracks you can @ me if ur comfortable to show

I can think, romanticise and fantasise about suicide in my mind but actually doing it is a whole different thing.
 
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wayn

wayn

orange cats are so cute
Oct 3, 2024
63
You are kinda right man. Thanks for the post!
 
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AnderDethsky

AnderDethsky

/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿(╥﹏╥)
Oct 19, 2024
108
Also id like to hear ur tracks you can @ me if ur comfortable to show

No problem, there's a whole thread where I post this. Going to drop a little more before the new year so that I can finally finish my EP. And then we'll see.

 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
2,947
Ask urselves why suicide was more acceptable in older cultures like the stoic Japanese,
Christian bible old and New Testament

Why are suicide and Death so extremely taboo to even talk about in this current culture

Obviously the extreme taboo against suicide and Death in this culture is cultural . Nobody even talks about these . And we are all going to die anyway but we can't talk about that most fundamental truth
 
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anagram

anagram

Suicide: permanent solution to permanent problems
Feb 4, 2024
154
Ask urselves why suicide was more acceptable in older cultures like the stoic Japanese,
Christian bible old and New Testament

Obviously the extreme taboo against suicide and Death in this culture is cultural . Nobody even talks about these . And we are all going to die anyway but we can't talk about that most fundamental truth
- much shorter lifespans
- much more exposure to death. It was commonplace.
- death was a much more accepted idea and cultures were comfortable with it because there was probably much more disease and lower quality of living for most.

Suicide only started to become taboo because of the church and also the rules of abrahamic religions i think.
 
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P

pariah80

Arcanist
Aug 12, 2024
404
- The mind and everything it does is a desperate attempt to somehow still cling to life. The people who overthink death are the least likely to commit suicide because of their ego/survival script preventing them from doing so. For some people, the mind will paradoxically do anything to distract them from death. This is the self preservation script.

- They're too focused on other people and their ego rather than thinking pragmatically about how they are going to kill themselves.

- The mind loves to get lost in its own bs and I realised this about myself.

- Doesn't help that death is basically against the mind's survival script. The sober mind's script will always have a bias towards survival. There's also been cases known that when people do intensive meditation, sometimes they also commit suicide. Think of advanced meditators, monks and self immolators. They're operating on a level beyond their mind's script.

- Sure the mind can think of death abstractly but the lived experience of death is what the mind fears the most. That's why so many sedate themselves on a cocktail of drugs before going through with suicide. This includes drugs such as SSRIs, benzodiazepines, alcohol and other drugs I don't know of. These drugs bypass the mind's resistance to death. Many people also kill themselves while on psychedelics.

- The people who go through with suicide for real are actually kinda brave because they overpower their biologically programmed primal will to live and their own minds/egos that counterintuitively prevent them from their own suicide. It's either that or they have easy, accessible means to die peacefully.

- Suicide is easier to do in a hyper logical, detached state where you don't self sabotage yourself with fear and unnecessary thoughts or emotions.

- In the ancient world, suicide was actually praised and preached by philosophers. Stoic texts have a positive view of suicide. Japanese people did seppuku to preserve honour. The bible didn't really condemn suicide. Early Christians committed suicide to escape persecution I think.

- whatever the unaware sober mind does, even failed suicide attempts, is still an unconscious will to live. Even giving off signs of suicidality means that deep down, a part of you doesn't want to die in hopes of someone saving you. It's more of a cry for help and a cry for their life circumstances to change rather than for death.

- The sober unaware mind will unconsciously do anything to ensure it's own survival and you won't realise it until you reflect on it. The ego mind/self survival script is sneaky like that.

- suicide is such a shock to regular people because they have a certain life setup that prevents them from deviating from the script too much. They're too embedded in the social matrix. It's all a social matrix game. If you're too woke or too aware, you'll gravitate towards suicide more.

- The true self is beyond thoughts, emotions and script. Many people commit suicide on antidepressants because it gives them a certain amount of clarity, energy and detachment to go through with their own plans.

- The people who talk the most about committing suicide and make a show out of it are the ones who usually don't do it. The ones who openly talk about it are basically asking for pro lifers to psy-op them into living and thus adding extra resistance in their mind against experiencing death. In fact, they're probably the ones who cling to life the most. It's mainly the people who keep it a secret who do it.

- imo, Victim mentality is the worst mentality to have if you're seriously considering suicide. There are many ways to die it's just that there is resistance in the mind against death for real. There's always a way to die it's just my fault for being too scared. Yes, nobody deserves what you went through but you still have the power to choose between life (recovery) or death. At a certain point, you're at a crossroad choosing between both options after you've fully come to terms with the trauma and pain you've experienced. Choose wisely.

- Must leave this world with a light heart and not many regrets. Exhausting all desires. Bucket list type thing.

- Psych wards restrict the environment so much to make suicide as difficult as possible. Still, many desperate souls still manage to die. Now imagine being in a normal environment. The chances of dying are much higher

- My point is that suicide is always possible if u strongly need it. Psych wards even take shoelaces away from you since u can just wrap that stuff around ur neck and die.

- I myself am guilty of delaying my suicide but this is all of what I realized after reflecting upon it and being honest with myself.
All of this!!! Very well thought out and written. I can't anymore to this. The only people offended by this are the ones you refer to in it.
 
Ashes of a Dreamer

Ashes of a Dreamer

Looking for freedom out of this hell
Dec 29, 2024
50
The best message I've seen in this forum until now about the mechanisms that prevent us from suicide. Congratulations, you explained it brilliantly, showing why we find CTB so hard at first glance; logically and by pure reason, however, it isn't.
 
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sinnovator

sinnovator

Member
Jan 9, 2025
18
- The mind and everything it does is a desperate attempt to somehow still cling to life. The people who overthink death are the least likely to commit suicide because of their ego/survival script preventing them from doing so. For some people, the mind will paradoxically do anything to distract them from death. This is the self preservation script.

- They're too focused on other people and their ego rather than thinking pragmatically about how they are going to kill themselves.

- The mind loves to get lost in its own bs and I realised this about myself.

- Doesn't help that death is basically against the mind's survival script. The sober mind's script will always have a bias towards survival. There's also been cases known that when people do intensive meditation, sometimes they also commit suicide. Think of advanced meditators, monks and self immolators. They're operating on a level beyond their mind's script.

- Sure the mind can think of death abstractly but the lived experience of death is what the mind fears the most. That's why so many sedate themselves on a cocktail of drugs before going through with suicide. This includes drugs such as SSRIs, benzodiazepines, alcohol and other drugs I don't know of. These drugs bypass the mind's resistance to death. Many people also kill themselves while on psychedelics.

- The people who go through with suicide for real are actually kinda brave because they overpower their biologically programmed primal will to live and their own minds/egos that counterintuitively prevent them from their own suicide. It's either that or they have easy, accessible means to die peacefully.

- Suicide is easier to do in a hyper logical, detached state where you don't self sabotage yourself with fear and unnecessary thoughts or emotions.

- In the ancient world, suicide was actually praised and preached by philosophers. Stoic texts have a positive view of suicide. Japanese people did seppuku to preserve honour. The bible didn't really condemn suicide. Early Christians committed suicide to escape persecution I think.

- whatever the unaware sober mind does, even failed suicide attempts, is still an unconscious will to live. Even giving off signs of suicidality means that deep down, a part of you doesn't want to die in hopes of someone saving you. It's more of a cry for help and a cry for their life circumstances to change rather than for death.

- The sober unaware mind will unconsciously do anything to ensure it's own survival and you won't realise it until you reflect on it. The ego mind/self survival script is sneaky like that.

- suicide is such a shock to regular people because they have a certain life setup that prevents them from deviating from the script too much. They're too embedded in the social matrix. It's all a social matrix game. If you're too woke or too aware, you'll gravitate towards suicide more.

- The true self is beyond thoughts, emotions and script. Many people commit suicide on antidepressants because it gives them a certain amount of clarity, energy and detachment to go through with their own plans.

- The people who talk the most about committing suicide and make a show out of it are the ones who usually don't do it. The ones who openly talk about it are basically asking for pro lifers to psy-op them into living and thus adding extra resistance in their mind against experiencing death. In fact, they're probably the ones who cling to life the most. It's mainly the people who keep it a secret who do it.

- imo, Victim mentality is the worst mentality to have if you're seriously considering suicide. There are many ways to die it's just that there is resistance in the mind against death for real. There's always a way to die it's just my fault for being too scared. Yes, nobody deserves what you went through but you still have the power to choose between life (recovery) or death. At a certain point, you're at a crossroad choosing between both options after you've fully come to terms with the trauma and pain you've experienced. Choose wisely.

- Must leave this world with a light heart and not many regrets. Exhausting all desires. Bucket list type thing.

- Psych wards restrict the environment so much to make suicide as difficult as possible. Still, many desperate souls still manage to die. Now imagine being in a normal environment. The chances of dying are much higher

- My point is that suicide is always possible if u strongly need it. Psych wards even take shoelaces away from you since u can just wrap that stuff around ur neck and die.

- I myself am guilty of delaying my suicide but this is all of what I realized after reflecting upon it and being honest with myself.
Very well said. In my own journey, I've observed that SI is most pronounced once the mind starts making up ego-based stories. The mindset shifts from self-deliverance being the most straightforward path out of suffering to "Woe is me! This is my tragic life story to die by my own hand." Then I start going down rabbit holes of how loved ones would react to my passing. These are all mind-made stories. Once I consciously squash them, I regain the clarity and calm feelings around self-deliverance.
 
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platypus77

platypus77

Existence is pain!
Dec 11, 2024
181
- The mind and everything it does is a desperate attempt to somehow still cling to life. The people who overthink death are the least likely to commit suicide because of their ego/survival script preventing them from doing so. For some people, the mind will paradoxically do anything to distract them from death. This is the self preservation script.

- They're too focused on other people and their ego rather than thinking pragmatically about how they are going to kill themselves.

- The mind loves to get lost in its own bs and I realised this about myself.

- Doesn't help that death is basically against the mind's survival script. The sober mind's script will always have a bias towards survival. There's also been cases known that when people do intensive meditation, sometimes they also commit suicide. Think of advanced meditators, monks and self immolators. They're operating on a level beyond their mind's script.

- Sure the mind can think of death abstractly but the lived experience of death is what the mind fears the most. That's why so many sedate themselves on a cocktail of drugs before going through with suicide. This includes drugs such as SSRIs, benzodiazepines, alcohol and other drugs I don't know of. These drugs bypass the mind's resistance to death. Many people also kill themselves while on psychedelics.

- The people who go through with suicide for real are actually kinda brave because they overpower their biologically programmed primal will to live and their own minds/egos that counterintuitively prevent them from their own suicide. It's either that or they have easy, accessible means to die peacefully.

- Suicide is easier to do in a hyper logical, detached state where you don't self sabotage yourself with fear and unnecessary thoughts or emotions.

- In the ancient world, suicide was actually praised and preached by philosophers. Stoic texts have a positive view of suicide. Japanese people did seppuku to preserve honour. The bible didn't really condemn suicide. Early Christians committed suicide to escape persecution I think.

- whatever the unaware sober mind does, even failed suicide attempts, is still an unconscious will to live. Even giving off signs of suicidality means that deep down, a part of you doesn't want to die in hopes of someone saving you. It's more of a cry for help and a cry for their life circumstances to change rather than for death.

- The sober unaware mind will unconsciously do anything to ensure it's own survival and you won't realise it until you reflect on it. The ego mind/self survival script is sneaky like that.

- suicide is such a shock to regular people because they have a certain life setup that prevents them from deviating from the script too much. They're too embedded in the social matrix. It's all a social matrix game. If you're too woke or too aware, you'll gravitate towards suicide more.

- The true self is beyond thoughts, emotions and script. Many people commit suicide on antidepressants because it gives them a certain amount of clarity, energy and detachment to go through with their own plans.

- The people who talk the most about committing suicide and make a show out of it are the ones who usually don't do it. The ones who openly talk about it are basically asking for pro lifers to psy-op them into living and thus adding extra resistance in their mind against experiencing death. In fact, they're probably the ones who cling to life the most. It's mainly the people who keep it a secret who do it.

- imo, Victim mentality is the worst mentality to have if you're seriously considering suicide. There are many ways to die it's just that there is resistance in the mind against death for real. There's always a way to die it's just my fault for being too scared. Yes, nobody deserves what you went through but you still have the power to choose between life (recovery) or death. At a certain point, you're at a crossroad choosing between both options after you've fully come to terms with the trauma and pain you've experienced. Choose wisely.

- Must leave this world with a light heart and not many regrets. Exhausting all desires. Bucket list type thing.

- Psych wards restrict the environment so much to make suicide as difficult as possible. Still, many desperate souls still manage to die. Now imagine being in a normal environment. The chances of dying are much higher

- My point is that suicide is always possible if u strongly need it. Psych wards even take shoelaces away from you since u can just wrap that stuff around ur neck and die.

- I myself am guilty of delaying my suicide but this is all of what I realized after reflecting upon it and being honest with myself.

You might find this one interesting:

 
P

PhDone

Experienced
Jul 29, 2024
245
Must leave this world with a light heart and not many regrets. Exhausting all desires. Bucket list type thing.
Thanks for this, love your perspective and thoughts. How does leaving without regrets fit with chronic illness? Not much opportunity to do the bucket list and in constant torture. Hard to be light hearted in leaving: keen to hear your thoughts.
 
ijustwishtodie

ijustwishtodie

I have finally found my ultimate bliss
Oct 29, 2023
5,803
I agree with most of this but not all of this. There's a difference between wanting death itself and wanting to go through the dying process. I don't think that anybody wants to go through the dying process because of how harsh and brutal it is but the fact remains that, because we are alive, we will have to die hence the dying process is inevitable. Just because people don't want to experience the dying process doesn't mean that they don't want death itself. This means that I disagree with you on suicide always being accessible if one truly desires to be dead. Maybe in a world where nembutal is legalised for everybody to own, I'd agree with you but in our current circumstances where pro lifers are going out of their way to ban the painless and peaceful methods? I'd have to disagree. The reason why most people don't kill themselves is because they ban the peaceful methods and only leave out the extremely painful and risky methods. A lot of people would decide to kill themselves if euthanasia was legalised
 
Gustav Hartmann

Gustav Hartmann

Elementalist
Aug 28, 2021
845
The people who talk the most about committing suicide and make a show out of it are the ones who usually don't do it.
Do you know a statistic that confirms this statement? I have seen statistics that people who talk a lot about commiting suicide will finally do it. Mybe it´s initially a cry for help but if there is no help because it is impossible to help them suicide is the only way out. Talking about your suicide ideation could also be a cry for approval and encouragement, the search for like minded peolple and a resonance space.

I also know people who often say something like: "Oh, I am going to hang myself !" My mother and grandma were such candidates, but these were only empty phrases, like non religious people saying "Oh, my God!" or "Jesus" at every opportunity.
 

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