what, EXACTLY, is heaven, to you?

[ksp]

everyone has some vague, abstract idea about their own heaven
how many of us explored our heaven in absolute detail? what is your version, specifically?

Spoiler: what paradise might mean to some

considering that consciousness is not matter, and there is no suffering at all, then

• no need to breathe (no pollution / no fresh air)
• no need to eat (no hunger / no taste)
• never too hot, too cold / too humid, too dry
• no need for health: no illnesses
• no need for beauty, or ugliness
• never a need to hope - everything is perfect (no best, or worst)
• no need for possibilities, potential, variety - what would you think about?
• no need for intelligence: all consciousness is omnipotent; all knowledge at maximum
• no guides, no need to explain anything, no need to communicate your desires; no desires
• no need for science or faith
• no expectations, no disappointments, no betrayals, no judgment
• no pluses or minuses, no pro's or con's
• no need to create anything; no need for curiosity, doubts, or opinions; no unknowns
• no need for laughter, tears, pain, anticipation, cruelty, terror, agony, risks
• no need to feel loneliness, or peacefulness, imagination, no dreams, no feelings, at all
• no need for truth, lies, trust, deception, hidden agendas
• no memories before or after: what if there is no time - you experience everything, at once
• no events of any kind, good or bad, no rewards / punishments
• no jealousy, no envy, no greed, no dislikes, no sin, no leaders nor followers
• no need to choose anything; instant access to all options - no options
• no need for love, hate, longing, melancholy, depression - just constant contentment
• no needs - ever

how do you describe your ideal existence (exactly, and completely)?

how would your heaven not be someone else's hell? is there someone else? why? why not?

what if your parents' consciousness is available to you? what if they were horrible, abusive, neglectful, full of hate? orphan, by various reasons (good, or bad)?

what would be the first minute in heaven be like? the first hour, day, year? the first trillion years?

what would drive this heavenly existence? what would be the point of it?

how long should this existence last? for ever?

if you choose to believe in an afterlife, what is your ideal of it?

would you choose to experience anything and everything,
or would you not choose to experience anything at all?

---

john lennon - imagine (1997)

Spoiler: lyrics

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world, you

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

 

[TypeDef_End_Bye]

I don't want heaven. I want god-hood.
Heaven is:

1. The possibility to grow powerful with no limits - everyone else included
2. The possibility to grow more intelligent with no limits - everyone else included

It might be hell but it's my heaven.

 

[ksp]

no bad or good answers :)

just a thought experiment; encouragement in self reflection
maybe it might help some people, in unexpected ways

 

[Himalayan]

Well. My heaven would be someone else's hell for sure. I don't see the problem in that?

 

[Mofreeko]

I don't know if an actual flesh and blood human being could ever achieve heaven. We tend to get used to pleasurable things quite quickly until it becomes the norm. Then we get bored and long for something different. Even the most hardcore drugs stop satisfying us as we develop tolerance for them. It's like no matter what we do our physiology works to numb us to pleasure until it's boring.

 

[HermitLonerGuy]

heaven to me is just being dead, oblivion. Never knowing i was even born. I cant wait.

 

[SamTam33]

If there were a heaven or an afterlife to partake in, I'd want it to be voluntary: a place that you can leave, and completely cease to be if you choose.

Entering heaven would also allow us to "re-experience" our previous lives but with the factors and characteristics WE got to select.

It doesn't have to be a physical experience, but we'd be able to navigate through our lives as the people we had hoped to be. We'd get to feel what that person would've felt.

Like an interactive virtual reality.

We choose our DNA components and predispositions.

We design how our parents looked and how they raised us.

We get to pick our name and hear what it's like when someone calls us by it.

We know what it would've felt like to actually make the basketball team in 8th grade.

We learn what unconditional love feels like.

We DON'T get hit by a car when we're 10.

We DON'T marry the abusive spouse at age 24.

Those are the only things that would make heaven worthwhile.

I can't see the me I am now - wanting a continued existence in any shape or fashion.

I want an existence that suits me; something I picked for myself.

I'd experience what that would've been like, then I'd leave.

 

[Leiden]

Non existence, just like before I was born. That is all that I want. That would be my heaven.

 

[Jadzia]

Being a beautiful vampire

 

[ksp]

thanks for the answers - all are valuable, in some ways

this particular answer gave me a new interesting option: accept heaven as it is, or choose to not exist at all

If there were a heaven or an afterlife to partake in, I'd want it to be voluntary: a place that you can leave, and completely cease to be if you choose.

… (all the remaining points are very good!)

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've always hoped I would see my Mum again (I was 3 when she passed.) There are more of my loved ones there (or perhaps nowhere) rather than here now. My Grandpa, Grandma, Nana, Grandad and my God Parents.

I always kind of pictured it like a beautiful water garden. Fountains and vines and stuff. Greek/Roman architecture I guess with everyone dressed in white. Magical lighting that makes everything look beautiful... Lol- what a cliche!

Anyway, I mainly focus on how lovely it would be to give everyone a big hig and tell them how much I missed them. Of course- that would be difficult without a body... Plus- we'd have the problem of time... For my Mum, I was 3 when she left. Now I'm 42 and 2 years older than her when she died. I wouldn't want to meet her again as a 3 year old but maybe she wouldn't want to meet me as an adult... Weirdly, I don't really picture anyone else around... I'm socially anxious- maybe that's why...

I guess we can only go on what we know can't we? I can't imagine not having a body and being able to perceive things without it. My ideas are so limited really- based on what I already know.

What's even funnier, is I can't imagine much beyond that initial meeting and catch up. Nothing good anyhow! I'm sure I've done plenty of things that have/would have disappointed them... I'm too old and stubborn for a lecture now though. Plus- if we are only ALL good there- are we really ourselves anymore?

When I REALLY think about it, I start to think that maybe nothingness would be better than anything else! Even 'heaven' and certainly not an eternity there. What on earth would you do? I hope there's wifi...

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Heaven - a mythical, fairy-tale land, conceived of by man, and created to exercise control over same, that is instilled into the (psychotic) minds of easily influenced and manipulated individuals who fear death (nothingness), in order to, seemingly, give said lives purpose and meaning.

 

[ksp]

I've always hoped I would see my Mum again…

many of your points made me smile

what others would consider cliche, is your safe space and comfort. your own heaven is yours and nobody elses (shouldn't care about other heavens). sorry for the suffering that your moms passing causes you

'that would be difficult without a body...' - very interesting: i think that our consciousness exists only because of inputs, it wouldn't exist without our physical sensors - what would a hug feel like without a body? maybe a mental hug, compassion, warmth mental embrace? and after the hug does it mean that you start to have a longing after that person, after a certain amount of time?

another excellent point: 'are we really ourselves anymore?' - 'i' wouldn't be me anymore, without my own memories and perceptions

'Even 'heaven' and certainly not an eternity there. What on earth would you do?' - feel the same way (I hope there's wifi... - lol!)

---

Heaven - a mythical, fairy-tale land, conceived of by man, and created to exercise control over same, that is instilled into the (psychotic) minds of easily influenced and manipulated individuals who fear death (nothingness), in order to, seemingly, give said lives purpose and meaning.

very well said!! i think an eternity of awareness would be absolutely horrific, especially when there is no way out

 

[FuneralCry]

For me, perfection can only lie in the absence of experiencing anything at all. Permanent non existence is heaven to me, and nothing else could ever compare. I don't wish for anything, I only wish for nothing. There is so much beauty in the thought of being free from everything.

 

[ksp]

For me, perfection can only lie in the absence of experiencing anything at all. Permanent non existence is heaven to me, and nothing else could ever compare. I don't wish for anything, I only wish for nothing. There is so much beauty in the thought of being free from everything.

than you! what else can be more perfect than not being aware of anything, not even the passage of time

 

[Forever Sleep]

i think that our consciousness exists only because of inputs, it wouldn't exist without our physical sensors -

Yes, absolutely- I can't get my head around this one either. Like- would it be like a dream maybe? We do 'see' things when we dream without seeing them with our eyes. To an extent, we perceive things that aren't actually real when we dream but then I suppose our dreams come from our brains- so...same problem. Brain death feels like it is likely to mean the end of everything. Again- reassuring in a way.

I have a strong suspision that these near death experiences are just dreams to be honest... Why wouldn't you see a bright light if that's what you were expecting to see?

Of course- it has an upside too... If hell is an actual place but my body stays here- how will I be able to feel pain if I end up there without my body?

Hmmm, a hug without a body... If I'm a classic see-through spirit and she is too, I guess we'll just float right through one another... Doesn't sound very comforting...

 

[ksp]

We do 'see' things when we dream without seeing them with our eyes. To an extent, we perceive things that aren't actually real when we dream but then I suppose our dreams come from our brains- so...same problem

exactly! when you said 'we perceive things that aren't actually real when we dream' you made me think - wow. but then i realized that what we dream about are things we perceive from reality (our sensors again), but i've had dreams where i was flying - nothing about it is real… wonder what babies are dreaming about..

'upside too... If hell is an actual place' - you wouldn't feel the actual 'heat of the flame' on your skin, but i bet your mind would be able perceive the terror and desperation; but the fact is that hell is a continuous flame - no enormous gas, electricity, or water bills (or would it include taxes? )

 

[Forever Sleep]

exactly! when you said 'we perceive things that aren't actually real when we dream' you made me think - wow. but then i realized that what we dream about are things we perceive from reality (our sensors again), but i've had dreams where i was flying - nothing about it is real… wonder what babies are dreaming about..

'upside too... If hell is an actual place' - you wouldn't feel the actual 'heat of the flame' on your skin, but i bet your mind would be able perceive the terror and desperation; but the fact is that hell is a continuous flame - no enormous gas, electricity, or water bills (or would it include taxes? )

Dreams are kind of the memories or simulations of our senses. I'm not actually sure if we need or our senses in order to dream though... I've literally just Googled it and apparently, people blind from birth do still have visual dreams (although- less often and less intensely.) Interesting huh? So- where DO they actually come from?

I've heard people say we never see/hear anything original in our dreams but I'm really not so certain. I feel sure I've seen places in dreams that I've never been to in real life or seen in films. They could well be an amalgamation of places I've seen certainly but I'm often amazed by how detailed but still unfamiliar they are. Plus, sometimes, I dream I can speak a foreign language perfectly- and I'm far too stupid to have picked up a whole language. The same as you- I also have flying dreams- I think they're actually very common. I don't know- it's just odd.

I do feel like dreams hold a major key in working out consciousness though. They are so different to our waking life. It's not like I'm convinced on the symbolism in them. It's more the fact that we dream at all. Like- Why? Where does all that information truly come from?

Dreams are actually incredible when you come to think of it. You simultaneously create your world, populate it with people (again- I'm sure some of those are people I've never seen before), make up some scenario that is going on, participate and experience it- ALL at the same time. Like- I don't think I CAN actually achieve ALL of that in waking life... Day dreams aren't like night dreams. (Well- mine aren't anyway...) It's like a whole other area of the brain is at play. When I'm awake- I simply can't get all those things to work together in unison again. (Or- maybe that's just me...)

Yeah- I did also think that near death experiences that went badly could have just been nightmares. Which TRULY troubles me- my upbringing involved the old 'all suicides go to hell...' What if I make myself believe this and believe I am there if I CTB?

Still- even then- I tried to reassure myself... The worst part I've found about a nightmare has been waking up and remembering it. I know I've had distressing dreams but I think, at the time at least, those feelings were at least somewhat muted (plus, sometimes I do seem to be aware that I'm dreaming- perhaps the start of lucid dreaming? I've always been fascinated by that). I'm hoping that if I have a nightmare that I've gone to hell but then die (brain death), maybe I won't realise the true horror of it.

Lol- you can BET there are taxes in hell. I strongly suspect the Inland Revenue has a direct line... Still- I could really do with saving on the heating bill...

 

[ksp]

dreams

our mind is the most powerful tool in nature's arsenal; even our dreams are conditioning us to strengthen our survival instinct. all information that come to us (aware, or not) is using our imagination to convince us to stay alive

Where does all that information truly come from?

reality or perception, concrete or abstract concepts (ex. language and love are immaterial); our minds work constantly, even with our unconscious, until the day we die. the brain is truly strange

 

[Shivali]

There is not such a thing like heaven for me ...

 

[Wannagonow]

As I get older I find myself more and more uncertain. My first job out of college (in the '80's) was on- air talent and manager of one of the largest Christian radio stations in the country. You'd think I'd have the whole afterlife thing mapped out by now. Nope. What I want heaven to be is a tranquil place where we'll once again be with family and friends who've already passed. Kinda "pie in the sky" huh?

 

[purplehearted]

Heaven to me is falling asleep. Just an eternal state of sleep. Unaware of anything, maybe having dreams but no nightmares

 

[locked*n*loaded]

For the ones who think dreams may be other worldly......................how is it then that our dreams can be so affected by the foods we eat, especially foods eaten closer to the time we go to sleep. I know you have all experienced this. Eat a pepperoni pizza with onions and hot peppers at 10 PM and go to bed at 11 PM. Tell me you don't dream more, or remember your dreams more, and that they're not more vivid and even "weird". It's all the chemicals, natural or other, that comprise what food is. Even the medications we take can influence our dreams. I think dreams are nothing more than memories getting sorted out, categorized, and stored for future use. During this process, they intermingle with one another on their way to their destinations, and that is why we may dream about things that have never happened to us. If something is weighing heavily on our mind, it just makes sense that we may dream about that because it has predominance in our lives at the time. Couple all that with what we eat and drink, and don't forget about the odors we were experiencing at the same time we see, touch, or heard something. The mind takes all this into consideration as to where to store our experiences. Even an odor we smell when we are sleeping may affect what we dream. It's not like senses ever get turned off.

As far as the blind "seeing" images in their dreams, the most logical explanation is their minds use the descriptions of things that have been provided to them by others as far as what something looks like and their minds create these images. We cannot know what they really see in their minds, and there is no way to experience what they see and compare with our images of it. For example, what a dog looks like in a "blind from birth" person's mind may not look like what we know a dog to be. Of course, everyone has their own opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. It keeps the world interesting.

 

[Winterreise]

No humans qualify for such a place. We don't get along on earth, we won't get along there.

 

[BreathOnAMirror]

My ideal afterlife would pretty much be akin to being a free spirit, none of the restraints of the human body, just a mind able to go anywhere and see anything. I'd have no stress about the future or the past, no worries about what people think, no sadness over lack of connections, just pure wonder at the majesty of our universe. See every culture, understand the human condition, watch humanity grow past this space rock, then watch a supernova, lie amongst the stars, see every type of planet imaginable, watch entire galaxies at a time, learn everything I could ever wish to about our universe without the limitations of the human brain. And I'm ready to let go, just evaporate, become a part of this amazing system of atoms and photons we live in, and fade off into everything.

 

[SalirDeLaMelancolía]

everyone has some vague, abstract idea about their own heaven
how many of us explored our heaven in absolute detail? what is your version, specifically?

Spoiler: what paradise might mean to some

considering that consciousness is not matter, and there is no suffering at all, then

• no need to breathe (no pollution / no fresh air)
• no need to eat (no hunger / no taste)
• never too hot, too cold / too humid, too dry
• no need for health: no illnesses
• no need for beauty, or ugliness
• never a need to hope - everything is perfect (no best, or worst)
• no need for possibilities, potential, variety - what would you think about?
• no need for intelligence: all consciousness is omnipotent; all knowledge at maximum
• no guides, no need to explain anything, no need to communicate your desires; no desires
• no need for science or faith
• no expectations, no disappointments, no betrayals, no judgment
• no pluses or minuses, no pro's or con's
• no need to create anything; no need for curiosity, doubts, or opinions; no unknowns
• no need for laughter, tears, pain, anticipation, cruelty, terror, agony, risks
• no need to feel loneliness, or peacefulness, imagination, no dreams, no feelings, at all
• no need for truth, lies, trust, deception, hidden agendas
• no memories before or after: what if there is no time - you experience everything, at once
• no events of any kind, good or bad, no rewards / punishments
• no jealousy, no envy, no greed, no dislikes, no sin, no leaders nor followers
• no need to choose anything; instant access to all options - no options
• no need for love, hate, longing, melancholy, depression - just constant contentment
• no needs - ever

how do you describe your ideal existence (exactly, and completely)?

how would your heaven not be someone else's hell? is there someone else? why? why not?

what if your parents' consciousness is available to you? what if they were horrible, abusive, neglectful, full of hate? orphan, by various reasons (good, or bad)?

what would be the first minute in heaven be like? the first hour, day, year? the first trillion years?

what would drive this heavenly existence? what would be the point of it?

how long should this existence last? for ever?

if you choose to believe in an afterlife, what is your ideal of it?

would you choose to experience anything and everything,
or would you not choose to experience anything at all?

---

john lennon - imagine (1997)

Spoiler: lyrics

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world, you

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

i don't really believe that there's going to be a heaven, or an afterlife in general.

 

[Unlucked]

Once when I was praying fervently to Jesus, I got such an intense feeling of peace and bliss that I actually begged God to turn it off because it felt too good and I thought I was going to be overwhelmed by feelings of extacy, peace, and every single problem that ever hurt me in life, every single trauma in those few minutes felt completely insignificant washed away by the bliss, I wanted it to last forever, I genuinely thought to myself, if praying this intensely could produce such an effect then being in his presence will cure me. Mind you I'm clinically diagnosed with PTSD due to severe sexual trauma and even those things completely became a non-issue in those 4 minutes.

It was the first and last time I experienced that in my life, and I was in the psych ward during that time after experiencing a series of paranormal events and having my mom institutionalize me.

Till this day I still 100% believe I was experiencing demonic activity, and the psychiatrists were baffled and discharged me like 3 days later and didn't even give me any medication because I wasnt exhibiting any signs of psychosis other than truly believing I was experiencing the paranormal at home due to a series of highly unusual and improbably events.

If heaven is real, I believe it will be like Jesus reaching into your soul into your heart and healing every single thing that ever hurt you, feeling that love, and all the hurt being replaced with endless joy and feelings of peace and contentment, and that state being maintained forever. And not only that, feeling like there is an understanding to why you had to suffer in the past and a feeling of acceptance and intense relief, like you just took a cold drink of water after being severely dehydrated. Except that satisfaction lasts forever.

 

[Sad_Sack]

Any random day from around 1983 to 1988. Relaxing in my dads chair watching the last of the after school cartoons and knowing my dad was coming home with dinner soon. My mom would be doing her thing and my sister would be around. Everyone would still have plenty of time ahead of them and nothing would feel that pressing. Maybe it would be an October day and it would be getting a little chilly and I'd have Halloween in the back of my mind. I'd feel secure and content. After dinner I would play with my action figures and then most likely go lay by the tv and draw with my parents watching a movie and talking together. I'd get I to my old bed and my parents would come say goodnight. Then I'd do it again the next day and so on forever.

 

[StolenLife]

My idea of heaven would be the closest thing to non existence. I just want peace.