Discussion What do you think of this post?

[nigelhernandez]

I asked a question on City-Data forums "Why are suicides condemned more than homicides" and saw this response?

 

[Life_and_Death]

i think this is a person that had experienced suicide from an outside point of view and now thats the only way they see it, refusing to think that maybe theres more to it then just......"oh they were gamblers". i personally wouldnt listen to anything they have to say, to me them talking about suicide is like me going to build a rocket.....just no. and if i ever tell you how to build a rocket dont listen to me either lol

 

[Grav]

It reads like there's a lot of backstory we're not getting in his post. The "walked out of" statement is a bit odd to me, if the person was so mad about it why even go? Walking out isn't telling the deceased anything and probably just makes the families more upset. I agree with life_and_death, one point of view and not much more.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

That person's opinion is honestly very common. We're in a bit of a bubble here in SS. We are like-minded, typically pro-choice, and several have experienced really negative life events. I don't expect others to understand our perspective.

 

[nigelhernandez]

That person's opinion is honestly very common. We're in a bit of a bubble here in SS. We are like-minded, typically pro-choice, and several have experienced really negative life events. I don't expect others to understand our perspective.

Do you know anyone in your life who has expressed similar anti-choice sentiments?

 

[Dude1983]

This guy a fucking retard, just an ignorant kid, i would like to see what he does with some of the illness much people have here, poor idiot. If I say im gonna kill myself, no1 have balls to tell me im a coward , because i would crush his head in the spot.

 

[Ghost2211]

It seems to me that he's felt the pain suicide can bring, and instead of learning compassion from it he developed resentment. We all handle pain and loss in our own way.

 

[Life_and_Death]

It seems to me that he's felt the pain suicide can bring, and instead of learning compassion from it he developed resentment. We all handle pain and loss in our own way.

i wonder if maybe someone talked to him before if maybe he wouldnt have been resentful. to have an understanding of the mental hardship rather then "oh my friend killed himself because he gambles" looking at it with no context and only understanding that your hurt but not why it happened can cause poor judgement of things.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

The first two sentences say it all. Pro-life clichés/platitudes and little attempt to understand the psychological complexity involved. I think their apparent anger (walking out of funeral) is really directed at themselves, because they seem unwilling or unable to try to truly understand the subject.

It is also interesting that they think they know the only possible time when suicide is the right choice. As if anyone can ever have access to such information. It shows a lack of imagination, a lack of empathy, and something of a god complex.
But maybe it gives them a false sense of superiority, dictating moral judgments from a pedestal.

 

[Ghost2211]

i wonder if maybe someone talked to him before if maybe he wouldnt have been resentful. to have an understanding of the mental hardship rather then "oh my friend killed himself because he gambles" looking at it with no context and only understanding that your hurt but not why it happened can cause poor judgement of things.

Hard to say... it's kinda funny I'd resent the hell out of my ex if he killed himself and left me with the kids. Even when we can understand how it feels it can be hard to not be at least somewhat emotionally selfish.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I think it's really easy to be angry and be on a high horse. It feels good. It feels "right." I've been there. It is so myopic.

 

[bravotess]

I know this isn't the part Of the post you're referring to, but, in large part, online gambling led me here

 

[epic]

I know this isn't the part Of the post you're referring to, but, in large part, online gambling led me here

Like you lost a lot of money to online gambling ?

 

[bravotess]

Like you lost a lot of money to online gambling ?

Yup. I put myself on the self-exclusion list but the damage is already done.

 

[Mm80]

Hes trying to make a complex topic simple as a way of dealing with it imo. I think the views on suicide are slowly changing. It used to be illegal lol.

 

[epic]

Yup. I put myself on the self-exclusion list but the damage is already done.

Is that the only reason you are suicidal ?

 

[bravotess]

Is that the only reason you are suicidal ?

My ex left me, after 17 years, in February. One of his reasons was my gambling. I'm not able to support myself and my kids financially, with just my income. There was a question posted here a few days ago about if you won $5 million would you still be suicidal. The truth is that if I could be financially secure I would be OK to stay on this earth. But him leaving me and me not having enough money makes it all too much.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

My ex left me, after 17 years, in February. One of his reasons was my gambling. I'm not able to support myself and my kids financially, with just my income. There was a question posted here a few days ago about if you won $5 million would you still be suicidal. The truth is that if I could be financially secure I would be OK to stay on this earth. But him leaving me and me not having enough money makes it all too much.

Another reason he left was because he cheated. He not only left you, he left you with an untenable financial burden of responsibility, so even if you gambled and that had a negative impact on the foundation of your relationship, what's his excuse for not only physically and emotionally, but also financially abandoning his child? What did the child do to cause abandonment and to be left so vulnerable? Your ex has his own shit in this. I hope you can find the support to work through all of your challenges.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

This post is very focused on this one persons experience tbh. Those two men are not a reflection of all suicidal people, and he fails to even acknowledge their reasons for suicide.

 

[bravotess]

Another reason he left was because he cheated. He not only left you, he left you with an untenable financial burden of responsibility, so even if you gambled and that had a negative impact on the foundation of your relationship, what's his excuse for not only physically and emotionally, but also financially abandoning his child? What did the child do to cause abandonment and to be left so vulnerable? Your ex has his own shit in this. I hope you can find the support to work through all of your challenges.

He cheated because I was a not a good partner. He didn't expect very much. Just the bare minimum of a romantic relationship. I didn't give it to him (not that he explicitly stated that he was unhappy or anything). I don't blame him for the cheating. I blame him for not communicating his issues to me. I blame him for not giving me a chance to change. I blame him for not leaving me BEFORE he had sex with someone else.

He claims (insert eye roll) that he didn't think through my finances and all of our bills and consider if I'd be able to mange on my own. I've never asked him for a single dollar or to pay a single bill since he left. I have broken down a few times, just out of pure frustration, and told him how I haven't paid the mortgage in months or how the cable company shut off the internet or how the kids and I eat ramen noodles 3 meals a day. Then he'll feel bad and give me a couple hundred dollars.

He sees our daughter regularly. Buys her clothes and stuff. Keeps her overnight. Takes her on trips (with the new girlfriend too). She's a daddy girl. Always has been. She still thinks he's the greatest guy ever. Which makes me INSANE!

 

[braketimez]

What do I think of that post?

It's been awhile since I've seen someone that stupid and inconsiderate write so ignorantly about suicide, that's what I think.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

He cheated because I was a not a good partner.

He cheated because he chose to cheat, rather than to seek other solutions that may not have felt as "good" and would have taken work. He went looking for someone, he didn't just meet her accidentally. He could have looked for a therapist. He could have spent the money on that instead of investing money as a sugar daddy. I hope you get an attorney and get child support set up immediately.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

Do you know anyone in your life who has expressed similar anti-choice sentiments?

Yes. Basically everyone. Everyone with whom I've even raised the subject of wanting to kill myself has told me that I am mentally unwell for thinking that way. Outside of SS, I haven't met a single person who agrees with me.

 

[bravotess]

He went looking for someone, he didn't just meet her accidentally.

Damn! Do I know you IRL? For the past 6 months hes told me that he was getting lunch one day and she started chatting him up and he felt so desired and wanted that he exchanged numbers with her and they started communicating and blah blah blah. I found out a few days ago that he actually met her through a sugarbaby website.

I havent tried to get support for 2 reasons. First, he's my best and only friend and I don't want to make him mad. Second, he is self employed so a lot of his finances are not reported to the government. On paper, he's not worth anything. I could get a lawyer involved but I don't want there to be tax repercussions for him.

It's hard to put a monetary value on life but I do know that I'm worth a lot of money dead. Him and my kids will be good for a while.

 

[epic]

My ex left me, after 17 years, in February. One of his reasons was my gambling. I'm not able to support myself and my kids financially, with just my income. There was a question posted here a few days ago about if you won $5 million would you still be suicidal. The truth is that if I could be financially secure I would be OK to stay on this earth. But him leaving me and me not having enough money makes it all too much.

It must feel horrible after someone you know for 17 years leaves and to be financially crippled at the same time, but all these issues are fixable, especially If you are healthy. A healthy individual can work efficiently for 48 hours a week, you can find a good balance between a city with low living costs and a wage which suits you and relocate or you can learn a new skill like programming and find a higher paying job. If you don't like a typical 9-5 job. You can try working from home on online portals like upwork.com .A psychiatrist can help you with your gambling addiction(if you have one) and your heart break. Heartbreak after marriages/relationships heal over time . So what you are feeling now will be much diluted a few months later.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Damn! Do I know you IRL? For the past 6 months hes told me that he was getting lunch one day and she started chatting him up and he felt so desired and wanted that he exchanged numbers with her and they started communicating and blah blah blah. I found out a few days ago that he actually met her through a sugarbaby website.

I havent tried to get support for 2 reasons. First, he's my best and only friend and I don't want to make him mad. Second, he is self employed so a lot of his finances are not reported to the government. On paper, he's not worth anything. I could get a lawyer involved but I don't want there to be tax repercussions for him.

It's hard to put a monetary value on life but I do know that I'm worth a lot of money dead. Him and my kids will be good for a while.

I don't know you IRL, you posted that he met her on a sugar baby website.

You don't want to get him mad? Girl, get mad! Get mad for your kids who are eating ramen three times a day while he TRAVELS! If he skirted the law and didn't report his income, he took a risk and now there are consequences. Your best friend wouldn't fuck over you and the kids like this and drop a few hundred bucks here and there. It seems both of you have had issues with learning responsibility, that happens; now is the opportunity for you to learn what you need to learn and let him learn or not learn what he needs to. Both of you have some hard work to do, but only you can do yours and only he can do his, and he may be forced to since he's not yet feeling the consequences, which sometimes is the only way one changes for the better.

 

[death137]

He is ignorant. He doesn't understand the feeling of hopelessness. His comment is from his pro-life perspective. I'm sure if he himself become suicidal he will understand suicide more and stop calling it selfish.

 

[bravotess]

It must feel horrible after someone you know for 17 years leaves and to be financially crippled at the same time, but all these issues are fixable, especially If you are healthy. A healthy individual can work efficiently for 48 hours a week, you can find a good balance between a city with low living costs and a wage which suits you and relocate or you can learn a new skill like programming and find a higher paying job. If you don't like a typical 9-5 job. You can try working from home on online portals like upwork.com .A psychiatrist can help you with your gambling addiction(if you have one) and your heart break. Heartbreak after marriages/relationships heal over time . So what you are feeling now will be much diluted a few months later.

I see people on here posting about childhood trauma, mental health challenges or issues with their physical health and I feel awful. I realize my issues seem trivial. People go through MUCH worse and survive. But to me they are very big, too big to fix, beyond repair. People would change places with me in a minute and be perfectly content. But I don't see another way out. Or maybe I just don't want to see a way out.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Blame discharges uncertainty and fear. Once that guy decided he knew the cause and could get self-righteous, he probably felt powerful.

Loving someone means being vulnerable to them. When his friends suicided, not only was his vulnerability exposed, but that of their partners and children.

Those who suicide are often seen as the enemy for causing pain to those who loved and were therefore emotionally vulnerable to them. But anyone or anything else that caused the death would have been to blame, whether a murderer or an illness or an accident. When a human is to blame, there is more anger, including if someone didn't go to the doctor when they were sick. Sharon Stone is now blaming and shaming people who don't wear masks for her sister getting COVID, and blaming Trump. I'm not saying people shouldn't be held accountable, but blaming is a shortcut and makes one feel morally powerful over others. Accountability means dialogue and having empathy, it means recognizing the other and giving them a chance to do right. When they're dead, there's no possibility for dialogue or taking responsibility. And when people don't have answers, they fill in the blanks, they assume they know causes and others' motivations. They have a tendency to not ask, and when the other person is dead, they can't.

 

[SipSop]

I asked a question on City-Data forums "Why are suicides condemned more than homicides" and saw this response?

View attachment 42412

What about it?