Discussion What comes after death

[Nephis]

Hey everyone, I kinda wanted to set up this discussion since things in my life have been coming to a head and I'm feeling somewhat sentimental about most of this, I read a post from @R.E.N. about the particulars of reincarnation, even before reading his post this was generally speaking my understanding of death and life. And I wanted to create some discussion about it as I believe it deserves some amount of discussion by itself.



Honestly this is an amazing diagram to understand what my point is and what R.E.N. themselves explain, and for me it makes the most logical sense. We have a level of evidence showing some level of existence of reincarnation (Of course you're free to scrutinize the validity of) and if not that then the evidence alone that we once did not exist and now do exist is plenty to recognize that reincarnation does in some format exist. And to me this is both something amazing and yet something incredibly scary.

Imagine this... After you commit suicide you have every chance of living a happy normal life, but on that same coin you could end up in an overall worse situation...A double edge sword to be sure, however, I believe it could also still hold some fairly good chances since these days the vast majority of populations in the world exist in first world countries(Correction: about 46% of the population live in poverty so do keep that in mind) and fairly decent ones at that, from this you can infer your odds at having a decent new life.

There is of course more to these questions such as are we likely to reincarnate as an animal? Or do we just reincarnate as humans? Do we choose who we reincarnate as and if so why? and the list of questions go further and further down. And I kinda wanna discuss that and gather some general thoughts from everyone.

Thank you for reading my small rant!

 

[Darkover]

half the world population live in abject poverty 46 percent

Over 1.9 billion people, or 26.2 percent of the world's population, were living on less than $3.20 per day in 2015. Close to 46 percent of the world's population was living on less than $5.50 a day.

thats 2k per year to live on not much at all

life's just down to random chance where you are born

there is no karma

 

[Nephis]

half the world population live in abject poverty 46 percent

Over 1.9 billion people, or 26.2 percent of the world's population, were living on less than $3.20 per day in 2015. Close to 46 percent of the world's population was living on less than $5.50 a day.

life's just down to random chance where you are born

Possibly is however I think that objectively it's still a fairly decent chance and I'm unsure of whether or not being in abject poverty would be worse than many of the situations of people on this site are currently in. However, thank you for the correction on the numbers themselves I'll go ahead and change my original post

half the world population live in abject poverty 46 percent

Over 1.9 billion people, or 26.2 percent of the world's population, were living on less than $3.20 per day in 2015. Close to 46 percent of the world's population was living on less than $5.50 a day.

thats 2k per year to live on not much at all

life's just down to random chance where you are born

there is no karma

I am otherwise confused though by these numbers since this is where I got my information

Half of the global population lives on less than US$6.85 per person per day

2019, 70 percent of the global population lived in places where the international poverty line might be too low. For this reason, the World Bank reports global poverty numbers at two higher poverty lines to help monitor poverty as countries grow and living standards improve.

blogs.worldbank.org

Also I agree that there isn't something like a Karma system or something to that nature I just think the chances aren't terrible, certainly will probably be better than my situation now.

Also sorry if I ever sound potentially aggressive or anything to induce negative feelings, I'm not very good with these things as I don't really have to many people I talk to these days.

 

[The anhedonic one]

What comes after death ?
FREEDOM !

 

[Praestat_Mori]

half the world population live in abject poverty 46 percent

Over 1.9 billion people, or 26.2 percent of the world's population, were living on less than $3.20 per day in 2015. Close to 46 percent of the world's population was living on less than $5.50 a day.

thats 2k per year to live on not much at all

This is relative! Certainly having to live on 5.50$ / day per person (for basic needs) in the so called "first world" is living in extreme poverty. I live in a "developing country" and we live on that amount (for basic living needs) for 2 persons very well, that would be a hellish life in the "1st world" from my point of view.

regarding OP, I don't believe in reincarnation, what I believe is that that what we call "soul or energy of life" will leave the body after death and and it will reunite with the allsurrounding energy that is everywhere throughout the universe and I hope not to be materialized ever again, could be notingness as well.

 

[ThisIsLife]

I don't believe in reincarnation at all. I was raised catholic and believe that we were existing in another form before we were born as humans and that we return "home" when we die, i.e life on earth is a temporary mission with a purpose and our body is just a vessel for our consciousness.
Why do i believe that ? Mostly because the people who experienced near death experience say they felt they already knew the place they were "visiting", that it felt familiar. They also say they saw people there that they never saw on earth but they felt they already knew them.

Anyway, i consider reincarnation as the most sadistic thing God could do and i don't believe He would do that.
Life already is very hard as it is because we don't know why we're here so i have trouble making sense of why we would we be reincarnated when we die. For what ?

 

[Nephis]

This is relative! Certainly having to live on 5.50$ / day per person (for basic needs) in the so called "first world" is living in extreme poverty. I live in a "developing country" and we live on that amount (for basic living needs) for 2 persons very well, that would be a hellish life in the "1st world" from my point of view.

regarding OP, I don't believe in reincarnation, what I believe is that that what we call "soul or energy of life" will leave the body after death and and it will reunite with the allsurrounding energy that is everywhere throughout the universe and I hope not to be materialized ever again, could be notingness as well.

Good point
Also apart from that I understand the points from multiple different people in terms of the different ways to view the after life and they are of course valid, however I'm more so want to see people's view points on this particular philosophy.

I don't believe in reincarnation at all. I was raised catholic and believe that we were existing in another form before we were born as humans and that we return "home" when we die, i.e life on earth is a temporary mission with a purpose and our body is just a vessel for our consciousness.
Why do i believe that ? Mostly because the people who experienced near death experience say they felt they already knew the place they were "visiting", that it felt familiar. They also say they saw people there that they never saw on earth but they felt they already knew them.

Anyway, i consider reincarnation as the most sadistic thing God could do and i don't believe He would do that.
Life already is very hard as it is because we don't know why we're here so i have trouble making sense of why we would we be reincarnated when we die. For what ?

That's an interesting perspective on the idea of NDEs however many report a variety of different results, as for that feeling of returing "home" who's to say home isn't a temporary nothingness? To me my understanding of it is based on memory and logic, I was at some point non-existent and then I wasn't and then I will be so again, thereby because I am still not nothing it means that death is not permanent or infinite instead it is likely that it is a cycle. However, I base all of that on the inferred evidence of the fact that we used to not exist and now we do thereby we will probably repeat that cycle.

As for the idea that it would be sadistic, I don't think I agree since unless you are one of the select few extroadinary circumstances you would not even remember your past life, and if you want to look at it from that religious perspective, god allows for alot of cruel things to happen, as such it's difficult to say what an all mighty being would seek from it's creation.

Of course I only say this from my opinion and everyone has their own valid point.

 

[Darkover]

This is relative! Certainly having to live on 5.50$ / day per person (for basic needs) in the so called "first world" is living in extreme poverty. I live in a "developing country" and we live on that amount (for basic living needs) for 2 persons very well, that would be a hellish life in the "1st world" from my point of view.

how much does a budget laptop cost in your country and a cheap mobile phone with internet in usd, i am just curious to know if there different price around the world or the same where ever you live, i live on 15,695£ per year in the uk england it's cost me 13£ a day to live leaves me with 30£ a day to do the things i want, that 13£ per day includes food,electric,gas,water,internet, mobile credit, council tax,tobacco.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just personally think that we completely cease existing after this, death is finally the end of everything and there is no more suffering for all eternity which is something that comforts me. I just think that any of those reincarnation theories are completely fictional, the thought of such a thing sounds horrible to me, but I could never believe in it.

 

[Nephis]

I don't believe in reincarnation at all. I was raised catholic and believe that we were existing in another form before we were born as humans and that we return "home" when we die, i.e life on earth is a temporary mission with a purpose and our body is just a vessel for our consciousness.
Why do i believe that ? Mostly because the people who experienced near death experience say they felt they already knew the place they were "visiting", that it felt familiar. They also say they saw people there that they never saw on earth but they felt they already knew them.

Anyway, i consider reincarnation as the most sadistic thing God could do and i don't believe He would do that.
Life already is very hard as it is because we don't know why we're here so i have trouble making sense of why we would we be reincarnated when we die. For what ?

how much does a budget laptop cost in your country and a cheap mobile phone with internet in usd, i am just curious to know if there different price around the world or the same where ever you live, i live on 15,695£ per year in the uk england it's cost me 13£ a day to live leaves me with 30£ a day to do the things i want, that 13£ per day includes food,electric,gas,water,internet, mobile credit, council tax,tobacco.

I personally have been looking at living costs in Spain and as far as I can tell you can live as a family of 4 for about 2.7-2.8k in USD per month(Capital of Spain the most expensive) compare that with prices here in America, and well you are probably living a very good life considering you also don't have to pay for healthcare and other things along those lines, buying a phone or a computer wouldn't be out of the question.
Last I checked it was somewhere along the lines of being 70% cheaper than living in N.Y

 

[UnlikelyCandidate]

I think when I die there will be silence. It will be impossible to perceive the nothing there is.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

To me, the idea that one could end up in a far worse situation after death sounds just like more pro-life propaganda meant to dissuade those with suicidal ideations. You didn't exist before you were born - how could you have? - since it took the egg of your mother and the sperm of your father getting together in order to create you. Simple logic dictates that when you die, everything that egg and sperm created dies, and you cease to exist once again - hence nothingness. If you believe that your body also has some mystical other entity that inhabits it, aka your soul, that goes "somewhere" else after death and then gets "placed" into a new "person" at the conception stage of life's beginning, well, you're free to believe that if you wish. That idea sounds preposterous to me.

 

[R.E.N.]

Honestly this is an amazing diagram to understand what my point is and what R.E.N. themselves explain, and for me it makes the most logical sense. We have a level of evidence showing some level of existence of reincarnation (Of course you're free to scrutinize the validity of) and if not that then the evidence alone that we once did not exist and now do exist is plenty to recognize that reincarnation does in some format exist. And to me this is both something amazing and yet something incredibly scary.

I didn't even mean to put it out as an absolute too, just a likely possibility, so my condolences if you have been kind of blasted for seeing the reason in it. Like I said in another thread, it's just probability, and realizing how infinity and sensation plays a role into that really makes it come to make sense.

Imagine this... After you commit suicide you have every chance of living a happy normal life, but on that same coin you could end up in an overall worse situation...A double edge sword to be sure, however, I believe it could also still hold some fairly good chances since these days the vast majority of populations in the world exist in first world countries(Correction: about 46% of the population live in poverty so do keep that in mind) and fairly decent ones at that, from this you can infer your odds at having a decent new life.

There is of course more to these questions such as are we likely to reincarnate as an animal? Or do we just reincarnate as humans? Do we choose who we reincarnate as and if so why? and the list of questions go further and further down. And I kinda wanna discuss that and gather some general thoughts from everyone.

Thank you for reading my small rant!

I believe it does play out like a coin flip too as it makes sense for it to follow pure chance, like it has in this life that is completely random. Thus, I think reincarnation with that kind of probability truly leaves so much to experience. It can be scary to think about being born as a human in poverty, but that is very improbable with the vastness of the cosmos. All of the conformations possible to host consciousness serve as potential vessels. Suffering like it has been in your experience here will be alien with likeliness. Of course, there are infinite chances to suffer, but there are also infinite chances for fascination and radiance and bloom. People here mention soul as necessary to reincarnation which I actually disagree. A soul is just a way for an ego to survive post-death in the well wishing of people. Consciousness and experience can work perfectly well uniform, encompassing every life as universal macro input.
That would be so absurd if the limitations of the modern economy affected reincarnation lowkey

 

[aGoodDayToDie]

I'm 100% sure there is no afterlife of any kind. NDEs are just hallucinations created by our brain. Consciousness is created by our brain. We can do all sorts of things to consciousness with drugs that demonstrate how dependent consciousness is on the brain. There is no way a soul can be transferred from one brain to another. There is just no possible mechanism for it. Once we die, ie once our brain no longer has the resources or capacity to function, consciousness ceases. And that's the end. Thankfully. Otherwise I'm sure we'd have memories of past lives. Any other way of thinking if you ask me is pure fantasy. Zero basis in reality. Not how things work.

 

[Nephis]

I didn't even mean to put it out as an absolute too, just a likely possibility, so my condolences if you have been kind of blasted for seeing the reason in it. Like I said in another thread, it's just probability, and realizing how infinity and sensation plays a role into that really makes it come to make sense.

I believe it does play out like a coin flip too as it makes sense for it to follow pure chance, like it has in this life that is completely random. Thus, I think reincarnation with that kind of probability truly leaves so much to experience. It can be scary to think about being born as a human in poverty, but that is very improbable with the vastness of the cosmos. All of the conformations possible to host consciousness serve as potential vessels. Suffering like it has been in your experience here will be alien with likeliness. Of course, there are infinite chances to suffer, but there are also infinite chances for fascination and radiance and bloom. People here mention soul as necessary to reincarnation which I actually disagree. A soul is just a way for an ego to survive post-death in the well wishing of people. Consciousness and experience can work perfectly well uniform, encompassing every life as universal macro input.
That would be so absurd if the limitations of the modern economy affected reincarnation lowkey

I agree with you on both points, also I know it's a possibility not a certainty but it's one of the few that I believe is likely.

I'm 100% sure there is no afterlife of any kind. NDEs are just hallucinations created by our brain. Consciousness is created by our brain. We can do all sorts of things to consciousness with drugs that demonstrate how dependent consciousness is on the brain. There is no way a soul can be transferred from one brain to another. There is just no possible mechanism for it. Once we die, ie once our brain no longer has the resources or capacity to function, consciousness ceases. And that's the end. Thankfully. Otherwise I'm sure we'd have memories of past lives. Any other way of thinking if you ask me is pure fantasy. Zero basis in reality. Not how things work.

The way to view it is not through NDE's like I said there exists a plausible scenario where we at one point did not exist but now we do and will probably return to non existence, we know nothing can be truly destroyed or "disappear" so would it be so implausible and fantastical to say that it works in a kind of cycle? most things we understand work in cycles and thereby this means that there are patterns to things in existence. This is based in reality where we can infer that based on certain reasoning and our understanding on existence and none existence it may be plausible, this is by far the most likely scenario in my own opinion outside of simply saying "There is nothing after death".

 

[Torabol]

The cycle is my matter being utilised by others as I have utilised others while I was alive. Beyond that, I have no way to know reincarnation will happen or not, or whether it's a black screen or not, so I don't let it bother me. I don't get myself busy over things I can't prove either way, it'd be like trying to grind water.