Please share is you have experiences with people in your life invalidating you in this way. I am interested to see the different ways TP looks from different perspectives.
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
It is delusional and unrealistic. If "positivity" was more grounded it would help someone suffer less. Unrealistic expectations are bound to hurt even more.
hikikomorizombie
Ouch
- Jan 15, 2024
- 771
toxic positivity's pretty much the same across the board. they regurgitate the same meaningless platitudes in response to any negative thoughts + feelings u express. they're not actually trying to have a convo w you, they're trying to convince u that nothing's so bad it can't be fixed by just slapping a smiley sticker on it
i think toxic positivity/positivity in general can reinforce some1's negativity, bc im that some1, lol.
i think toxic positivity/positivity in general can reinforce some1's negativity, bc im that some1, lol.
dragonofenvy
Mage
- Oct 8, 2023
- 564
For me, it's usually been used in such a way that if I just tried harder I wouldn't be where I am. It's used as a tool for blame, and not a tool for change. They simply can't see that sometimes there are objective reasons for one to feel like shit that is outside of their control. Or, that if you feel bad that you shouldn't because feeling bad in of itself is bad, for some reason.
sserafim
brighter than the sun, that’s just me
- Sep 13, 2023
- 9,013
I think that it does more harm than good.
They lack empathy which is how they fully believe the stupid things they say.
Dliena
𝚂𝚂 𝙼𝚎𝚖𝚋𝚎𝚛 𝙽𝚘. 43,53?
- Dec 22, 2023
- 1,889
It is just toxic doesn't matter if it's good or bad. Shit is as shit does.
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Raven_Nevermore
Member
- Feb 18, 2024
- 76
Hey, I'm VERY POSITIVE. I'm VERY POSITIVE that I'm so f@#ing worthless and that my family and all others will/SHOULD be so much happier and better off when I'm no longer here. How's that for positivity?!
LaVieEnRose
Angelic
- Jul 23, 2022
- 4,247
It's bad. But not all positivity is toxic. That's why "toxic" is merely a qualifier in the phrase "toxic positivity".
underthedatetree
Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- 88
this this this this I hate when advice these days amounts to "uhm its on you to take care of your mental health, so if you still feel like shit its your responsibility to seek treatment."
I really hate the PRification of language its like in 1984, newspeak was created to reduce vocabulary and make conversations about rebellion and govt dissent practically impossible. When people constantly shove every mental illness under the umbrella of vague and singular term "mental health" and try to solve every problem the same way its taking a hammer to things that aren;t just nails you know. IDK where I was going with this rant.
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dinosavr
and if i’m turning blue, please, don’t save me 🌛
- Dec 14, 2023
- 696
I guess most people don't consider death as an option or at least not as an option you might really want. Therefore, for them, positivity = being alive = a good thing & negativity = being dead = a bad thing.
They don't consider death as a good option and we do, and that's why we don't agree on the idea of positivity, which makes it toxic for us. Analogically, our "negativity" is toxic for them.
Of course we would rather try our best to gain more positive attitude in order to feel better about our lives, if only we felt like this is what we actually and truly want. Knowing that life will always betray us, it feels easier to have a positive approach to death = having a "negative" approach to life, even if it means we sometimes have to intoxicate others with it.
They don't consider death as a good option and we do, and that's why we don't agree on the idea of positivity, which makes it toxic for us. Analogically, our "negativity" is toxic for them.
Of course we would rather try our best to gain more positive attitude in order to feel better about our lives, if only we felt like this is what we actually and truly want. Knowing that life will always betray us, it feels easier to have a positive approach to death = having a "negative" approach to life, even if it means we sometimes have to intoxicate others with it.
When I was very suicidal and depressed last year I often heard toxic positivity from people close to me. This made me even more suicidal!! I would really have taken an OD (preferably N) immediately many times if I had it at hand.
I suppose I think a lot of the time, when I've received it, people haven't been intending to be toxic. Deep down, I think they probably wanted the best for me. At best, they may well have believed that- if I only took their advice, things would improve. At worst, maybe they were frustrated with me. Maybe they were annoyed/ upset that I wouldn't fight harder or, even appear to want to fight harder for my life. Or, they maybe were tired of the negativity, didn't know what else to say, so said some stupid umbrella statement like- 'Things will get better.'
Personally, I wouldn't call their behaviour toxic exactly though. I'd say it might be unempathetic, maybe inpatient and misguided. Still- I've experienced real toxic behaviour in my life. A (suspected) narcissist outright lieing and spreading rumours about me so I would get into trouble. Plus, non stop intimidation and bullying. THAT I would call toxic behaviour! Some well meaning or misguided statement really pales in significance to that- in my experience anyhow.
Plus, I think we actually have to learn. If you know someone tends to come out with responses to problems that trigger you- don't share your problems with them anymore! Simply say things are fine. Or, be honest and say that you know their responses are intended to be caring but, they don't actually help.
I don't know. Maybe it is toxic to try and force attitudes on people. I don't think it always comes from a bad place though. I think a fair amount of people 'mean well'. Although of course- 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions!'
Still- to be honest- what are we expecting really? I imagine these are people who either see the value in life and the value of trying. Or, they have had struggles themselves and, fought tooth and nail to get through. Is a person like that likely to be all softly, softly- 'It's ok if you want to give up?' Plus- 'tough love' may have worked on them. Platitudes may have worked on them so, they may actually be thinking they will for us too. These people aren't therapists (presumably.) It would be nice- of course if they could empathise and understand us but- in a way, why would they? If they haven't experienced this mindset themselves.
Honestly, would negativity be a better response do you think? Someone talking to their tutors about how worried they are about finding work. Would a more honest response help them do you think? 'Well yes- it's really tough out there. Chances are, you won't get a job you enjoy. You'll spend the next 50 years pointlessly slaving away to make some rich tosser CEO even richer.' Will that help them?
What is a good response to problems? I think the other thing is- we're all different. We all have different backgrounds. Personally, I prefer sympathy. An acknowledgement that what I'm struggling with is a genuinely bad thing. That I'm justified in struggling with it. A friend of mine prefers the opposite- that things aren't as bad as they think. They actually prefer what people here might actually consider 'toxic positivity'. Interestingly of course- they aren't suicidal- as far as I'm aware. I guess it makes sense really. They're outlook on life is more about living rather than struggling and giving up. I think maybe telling themselves a positive story is how they do that. So, that's what they do to us.
Is it 'toxic'? I mean- it would be if it trapped them in pepetual misery but, maybe they believe in all that positive crap. Enough for them to maybe make real positive changes and benefit from them. I think maybe that's the problem for us though- we don't believe it for us. So, we kind of know those statements won't free us, they'll simply keep trapping us here.
There's a fundamental difference though I suppose. They don't see life itself as 'toxic' whereas- the most extreme nihilists and promortalists here do. I find it's them who tend to talk the most about 'toxic positivity'. I think a lot of other people will simply just ignore/ avoid those they find nausiatingly positive. They'll just recognise that they have a different outlook on life which doesn't relate to their own experience.
Personally, I wouldn't call their behaviour toxic exactly though. I'd say it might be unempathetic, maybe inpatient and misguided. Still- I've experienced real toxic behaviour in my life. A (suspected) narcissist outright lieing and spreading rumours about me so I would get into trouble. Plus, non stop intimidation and bullying. THAT I would call toxic behaviour! Some well meaning or misguided statement really pales in significance to that- in my experience anyhow.
Plus, I think we actually have to learn. If you know someone tends to come out with responses to problems that trigger you- don't share your problems with them anymore! Simply say things are fine. Or, be honest and say that you know their responses are intended to be caring but, they don't actually help.
I don't know. Maybe it is toxic to try and force attitudes on people. I don't think it always comes from a bad place though. I think a fair amount of people 'mean well'. Although of course- 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions!'
Still- to be honest- what are we expecting really? I imagine these are people who either see the value in life and the value of trying. Or, they have had struggles themselves and, fought tooth and nail to get through. Is a person like that likely to be all softly, softly- 'It's ok if you want to give up?' Plus- 'tough love' may have worked on them. Platitudes may have worked on them so, they may actually be thinking they will for us too. These people aren't therapists (presumably.) It would be nice- of course if they could empathise and understand us but- in a way, why would they? If they haven't experienced this mindset themselves.
Honestly, would negativity be a better response do you think? Someone talking to their tutors about how worried they are about finding work. Would a more honest response help them do you think? 'Well yes- it's really tough out there. Chances are, you won't get a job you enjoy. You'll spend the next 50 years pointlessly slaving away to make some rich tosser CEO even richer.' Will that help them?
What is a good response to problems? I think the other thing is- we're all different. We all have different backgrounds. Personally, I prefer sympathy. An acknowledgement that what I'm struggling with is a genuinely bad thing. That I'm justified in struggling with it. A friend of mine prefers the opposite- that things aren't as bad as they think. They actually prefer what people here might actually consider 'toxic positivity'. Interestingly of course- they aren't suicidal- as far as I'm aware. I guess it makes sense really. They're outlook on life is more about living rather than struggling and giving up. I think maybe telling themselves a positive story is how they do that. So, that's what they do to us.
Is it 'toxic'? I mean- it would be if it trapped them in pepetual misery but, maybe they believe in all that positive crap. Enough for them to maybe make real positive changes and benefit from them. I think maybe that's the problem for us though- we don't believe it for us. So, we kind of know those statements won't free us, they'll simply keep trapping us here.
There's a fundamental difference though I suppose. They don't see life itself as 'toxic' whereas- the most extreme nihilists and promortalists here do. I find it's them who tend to talk the most about 'toxic positivity'. I think a lot of other people will simply just ignore/ avoid those they find nausiatingly positive. They'll just recognise that they have a different outlook on life which doesn't relate to their own experience.
Came to say this. But also I think people simply don't like feeling invalidated. So if someone's feeling like shit, just any positivity can feel dissonant.
Slow_Farewell
Warlock
- Dec 19, 2023
- 709
It's.. a term that's come up due to a lack of objectivity and an extraordinary amount of focus on "self".
Some people are triggered by it, some aren't, some understand it's a necessary measure to get through day to to day interactions while not being perceived as an asshole for being blunt/frank.
Some people are triggered by it, some aren't, some understand it's a necessary measure to get through day to to day interactions while not being perceived as an asshole for being blunt/frank.
FuneralCry
Just wanting some peace
- Sep 24, 2020
- 38,879
It's repulsive and very insensitive to me, I cannot stand people who continue to repeat toxic positivity even know existence undeniably is so incredibly hellish with no limit as to how much one can suffer. Any kind of positivity in this reality is very toxic to me especially as existence is completely undesirable in every way, I find it such a horrific tragedy how life even exists at all, to have the ability to exist is something so incredibly cruel and futile.
tbroken
Wizard
- Feb 22, 2024
- 689
It is what i used to build my career and obtain material things and knowledge. Basically you convince your self that what you are doing is good and you will be blessed by luck and so on. In the end, i just wanted to obtain some sort of independence and try things before judging them. Once i collected enough money and structured my mind i felt better, but still is difficult for me to fully understand what is good and what is wrong, or maybe i just don't want to understand and enjoy my time.
