What are the best reasons in favor of pro-creating?

[Deleted member 847]

I only have two issues with eugenics:

Firstly, because of all the [demographic] supremacists out there, any eugenics program is likely to turn into another case of outbreeding whatever other demographic(s) you believe to be inferior, completely ignoring the health and life quality of the children forced into existence in favor of unsubstantiated beliefs in racial superiority. Then there is the pro-disability crowd who think that being disabled is a "gift" or a "blessing" that should be shared by other people. I myself am disabled and would not wish such an existence on anyone. While accepting and helping disabled people is very important for any civilized society, these people fail to understand the difference between helping disabled people already here and creating more disabled people. There have even been cases of deaf parents having actively tried for a deaf child to continue "deaf culture" or parents of children with genetic diseases proclaiming said diseases to be a "gift". This is absolutely cruel and happens already with pugs. I find it naive to believe that large-scale selective breeding of "cute deformed children" for social media likes would not occur.

Secondly, it doesn't go to the root of the issue and is merely applying a bandaid on the fundamentally bad idea that is birth. There are simply no good reasons for procreating and forcing a child to suffer and die in the end. To expand on my analogy, it's like cutting someone with a knife and then applying a bandaid on the wound. Yes, the bandaid might help a little but it was completely unnecessary to cut the person in the first place. It's an exercise in futility and a multiplier for suffering.

In short, while eugenics works great in theory, in practice humans are too moronic to use it appropriately and are more likely to cause further suffering with it than what we're doing now.

Yeah well I think multiculturalism is a horse shit approach to society anyway.

The only reason why we compete with each other, why we have wars is
diversity
The opposite of that would be social cohesion,
when everyone feels that they belong in the hierarchy of the group

You don't have to fight someone that looks like you, believes in what you believe, has the same habits that you have, agrees with almost everything you say and do

Conflict only happen when people have different values

The future of civilization is the hive mind
the borg from Star Trek

I mean just think how organised and fast such a society would be

It would outcompete all the other slow and diverse societies, that are made out of components that can refuse to function/follow orders

It would be like the roman empire
against the disorganised barbarians

 

[Shivali]

In my opinion, life with all it's suffering is an imposition. I couldn't protect a child from it ... unless ... I renounce reproduction. And so I did consciously.

 

[Deleted member 847]

In my opinion, life with all it's suffering is an imposition. I couldn't protect a child from it ... unless ... I renounce reproduction. And so I did consciously.

Life is two selfish assholes deciding
one day to make themselves happy at your expense
The selfish assholes are fully aware that you're going to grow old and die
but their precious dopamine/comfort
is worth way more than you having to yknow grow old and die
Rape Rape Rape Rape Rape

 

[DynamicDepression]

Yeah well I think multiculturalism is a horse shit approach to society anyway.

The only reason why we compete with each other, why we have wars is
diversity
The opposite of that would be social cohesion,
when everyone feels that they belong in the hierarchy of the group

You don't have to fight someone that looks like you, believes in what you believe, has the same habits that you have, agrees with almost everything you say and do

Conflict only happen when people have different values

The future of civilization is the hive mind
the borg from Star Trek

I mean just think how organised and fast such a society would be

It would outcompete all the other slow and diverse societies, that are made out of components that can refuse to function/follow orders

It would be like the roman empire
against the disorganised barbarians

I think you should read up some on Roman history. And human history.

 

[Deleted member 847]

I think you should read up some on Roman history. And human history.

I know romans had brown people in the empire, but they all pretty much felt roman didn't they?
they spoke the same language, ate the same crap, believed in the same gods

And I did say multiculturalism

romans won because they knew how to organise themselves better than the other nations around them, it wasn't just
their technology that made them the dominators, their culture too played a role in that

A society can't function if the people in it do whatecer the fuck they want
You need rules
You need efficient communication
People that agree instear of p that disagree badically

 

[DynamicDepression]

I know romans had brown people in the empire, but they all pretty much felt roman didn't they?
they spoke the same language, ate the same crap, believed in the same gods

And I did say multiculturalism

romans won because they knew how to organise themselves better than the other nations around them, it wasn't just
their technology that made them the dominators, their culture too played a role in that

Right, and that's why there weren't any Roman civil wars or revolts throughout its entire history and why they didn't eventually lose to the "disorganised barbarians".

 

[Deleted member 847]

Right, and that's why there weren't any Roman civil wars or revolts throughout its entire history and why they didn't eventually lose to the "disorganised barbarians".

It did last a thousand years, didn't it?
and they lost when they became chrisrian if I'm not wrong, when they lost the roman spirit so to speak

 

[Efilismislife]

I only have two issues with eugenics:

Firstly, because of all the [demographic] supremacists out there, any eugenics program is likely to turn into another case of outbreeding whatever other demographic(s) you believe to be inferior, completely ignoring the health and life quality of the children forced into existence in favor of unsubstantiated beliefs in racial superiority. Then there is the pro-disability crowd who think that being disabled is a "gift" or a "blessing" that should be shared by other people. I myself am disabled and would not wish such an existence on anyone. While accepting and helping disabled people is very important for any civilized society, these people fail to understand the difference between helping disabled people already here and creating more disabled people. There have even been cases of deaf parents having actively tried for a deaf child to continue "deaf culture" or parents of children with genetic diseases proclaiming said diseases to be a "gift". This is absolutely cruel and happens already with pugs. I find it naive to believe that large-scale selective breeding of "cute deformed children" for social media likes would not occur.

Secondly, it doesn't go to the root of the issue and is merely applying a bandaid on the fundamentally bad idea that is birth. There are simply no good reasons for procreating and forcing a child to suffer and die in the end. To expand on my analogy, it's like cutting someone with a knife and then applying a bandaid on the wound. Yes, the bandaid might help a little but it was completely unnecessary to cut the person in the first place. It's an exercise in futility and a multiplier for suffering.

In short, while eugenics works great in theory, in practice humans are too moronic to use it appropriately and are more likely to cause further suffering with it than what we're doing now.

Doesnt eugenic mean to eliminate issues on/in human body(be it physically&mentally&intellectual)and create an ideal self and also the offspring through selective breeding so they get to choose whivh can have an ideal life? Which means they could have a great life.


those "disease is a gift" saying is only because they cant fix it so thats the copium
if theres a solution itll be different

 

[Deleted member 847]

Isnt eugenetics mean to eliminate any issues on/in human body(be it physically&mentally&intellectual)and create an ideal self and also the offspring? Which means they could have a great life.

those "disease is a gift" saying is only because they cant fix it so thats the copium
if theres a solution itll be different

eugenics

noun
the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable. Developed largely by Sir Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, eugenics was increasingly discredited as unscientific and racially biased during the 20th century, especially after the adoption of its doctrines by the Nazis in order to justify their treatment of Jews, disabled people, and other minority groups.

the problem with it would be who
decides what perfection is

 

[chocolatebar]

Yeah well I think multiculturalism is a horse shit approach to society anyway.

The only reason why we compete with each other, why we have wars is
diversity
The opposite of that would be social cohesion,
when everyone feels that they belong in the hierarchy of the group

You don't have to fight someone that looks like you, believes in what you believe, has the same habits that you have, agrees with almost everything you say and do

Conflict only happen when people have different values

The future of civilization is the hive mind
the borg from Star Trek

I mean just think how organised and fast such a society would be

It would outcompete all the other slow and diverse societies, that are made out of components that can refuse to function/follow orders

It would be like the roman empire
against the disorganised barbarians

So, the problem isn't the intolerant oppressors ho can't stand the mere existence of someone culturally different, but the fact that diversity exists?

Come on...

Also, diversity wasn't really the cause of most conflicts in history, but a convenient way to push the masses into fighting for power, land and resources.

And what would that cohesion look like in the real world? The only example I can think of is something like ants. People being submissive and purposeless creatures who are nothing but disposable pawns to a higher power. That would be the end of any freedom. How is it possible to exist freedom and such cohesion?

 

[Efilismislife]

eugenics

noun
the study of how to arrange reproduction within a human population to increase the occurrence of heritable characteristics regarded as desirable. Developed largely by Sir Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, eugenics was increasingly discredited as unscientific and racially biased during the 20th century, especially after the adoption of its doctrines by the Nazis in order to justify their treatment of Jews, disabled people, and other minority groups.

the problem with it would be who
decides what perfection is

Still the same though, at least it can selectively choose which would have an ideal life and eligible
which will create a messed up life and not eligible for it will only bring new disaster

Yeah well I think multiculturalism is a horse shit approach to society anyway.

The only reason why we compete with each other, why we have wars is
diversity
The opposite of that would be social cohesion,
when everyone feels that they belong in the hierarchy of the group

You don't have to fight someone that looks like you, believes in what you believe, has the same habits that you have, agrees with almost everything you say and do

Conflict only happen when people have different values

The future of civilization is the hive mind
the borg from Star Trek

I mean just think how organised and fast such a society would be

It would outcompete all the other slow and diverse societies, that are made out of components that can refuse to function/follow orders

It would be like the roman empire
against the disorganised barbarians

Its true many conflicts came because people have conflicting beliefs, value, way of thinking, etc, etc

but people also fight because of greed, ego, fighting to obtain the same thing/spot, want to be the best

So, the problem isn't the intolerant oppressors ho can't stand the mere existence of someone culturally different, but the fact that diversity exists?

Come on...

Also, diversity wasn't really the cause of most conflicts in history, but a convenient way to push the masses into fighting for power, land and resources.

Even the word conflict itself means disagreement, incompatible, contradict, argument

people who have things in common/same belief, etc wouldnt fight for those because they have the same value

but that would be impossible though because human have different character, personality

And what would that cohesion look like in the real world? The only example I can think of is something like ants. People being submissive and purposeless creatures who are nothing but disposable pawns to a higher power. That would be the end of any freedom. How is it possible to exist freedom and such cohesion?

its not going to be like ants if people/everybody has the same value& the same goal

although it still wont guarantee there wont be any conflict because human even sometimes angry to their past self for making bad decision

or being selfish to their future self by postponing the responsibility only to dump those trash to their future self

At the end it also depends on the personality. Two morally wrong people(such as narcissistic or sociopath)with same value would possibly have a conflict
but 2 people with good moral with same value wont

 

[Deleted member 847]

So, the problem isn't the intolerant oppressors ho can't stand the mere existence of someone culturally different, but the fact that diversity exists?

Come on...

Also, diversity wasn't really the cause of most conflicts in history, but a convenient way to push the masses into fighting for power, land and resources.

And what would that cohesion look like in the real world? The only example I can think of is something like ants. People being submissive and purposeless creatures who are nothing

Diversity creates friction
Some friction isn't necessarily bad,
but there should always be something
that ties the community together
Rules that are set in stone
Such as the fact that we can only speak one
language
The moment we speak two languages is the moment
a country becomes two countries
A system can't survive if it has too much entropy in it, be it the abstract idea of a country or a living organism
The only reason why we're all on this forum
is because we all have something in common that lead us here

The example of the borg was to show you how
order always wins, it can't possibly not win because it's basically intelligence against stupidity
A country with too much friction doesn't really have an identity, it can't make a move on the chessboard because the pawns don't listen to the king
Sure the borg if it existed would be evil, but it would still beat any other system, for the mere fact that it's faster. It's a system that has zero friction.
I don't really think goodness is what decides what survives and what doesn't

Yeah I think I wouldnt like to live in the borg eirher, but it would still kick ass as a system

Still the same though, at least it can selectively choose which would have an ideal life and eligible
which will create a messed up life and not eligible for it will only bring new disaster

Its true many conflicts came because people have conflicting beliefs, value, way of thinking, etc, etc

but people also fight because of greed, ego, fighting to obtain the same thing/spot, want to be the best

Even the word conflict itself means disagreement, incompatible, contradict, argument

people who have things in common/same belief, etc wouldnt fight for those because they have the same value

but that would be impossible though because human have different character, personality



its not going to be like ants if people/everybody has the same value& the same goal

although it still wont guarantee there wont be any conflict because human even sometimes angry to their past self for making bad decision

or being selfish to their future self by postponing the responsibility only to dump those trash to their future self

At the end it also depends on the personality. Two morally wrong people(such as narcissistic or sociopath)with same value would possibly have a conflict
but 2 people with good moral with same value wont

You could have a society like ants and It would still win
The roman empire was evil and it still won
Order isn't about pleasing everybody, order is just order

Yes, people would still fight, have disagreements
have too much of that and you don't have a country anymore
The ideal system would be a system where everyone is happy with their position all the time,
but I don't think you can get that without putting a chip in everyone's brain first,
but when you do that you have the borg
Everything is communicating all the time, there are no more disagreements,
and nothing can ever get in your way, you're the strongest system that can exist,
at the expense of everyone (the components that make you, the system) also being a slave

I do believe that's where technology will lead us though, it's inevitable, unfortunately
The moment we create the first artificial super intelligence is the moment democracy
will cease to exist
You will just do what god/the ai tells you to do and if you disobey
it will just do some brain surgery on you so you can't disagree with it anymore
if it will even care about keeping you alive in the first place

Laugh at my comment if you want,
but this technology is only 100 years away from us according to many experts

 

[TLEEA]

Barring any other existentialist argument, families who are more educated and resourceful than the layman have more reasons to do so. High-class families who have passed down their skills and knowledge to ensure that their future generations prosper have more reasons to pro-create than the average person.

 

[7b48hl]

Sorry if this is all too personal, but this topic means a lot to me, so I gotta be honest here: the prospect of having children is probably the only thing that gives me hope and keeps me going right now. And the fear that I might not succeed, or that I could be wrong about how I feel and that in the end it wouldn't matter if I do succeed, is the main thing putting me down.

Call me selfish, but to create new life is just plain godly, and I can't even think of anything I could do in this world that could compare. There's something intrinsically meaningful and fulfilling about it, that dispenses logical justification, the same way the joys of sex, having a good meal, reading a good book, spending time with a friend, punching something really hard, puking after being sick for a while or waking up after fainting all dispenses justification. I cried enough imagining my kids smiling to me, imagining how they would look like, how I would name them and talking about it all with my ex, to know there's nothing that matters as much. And even now, when I couldn't feel further from my dream, I still pity those who haven't dreamt it.

The way my mother talked about my birth or about having me as her son always felt kinda silly, but now I think I finally undestand. I envy her, even knowing I'm not someone to be proud of, because I know that for her I embody the dream that I now dream too, and because now I do recognize that she loves me, the same way I already love unconditionally the children I might never have. That's probably the best thing about having children: the world is full of useless, disgusting and fucked up people, true, I'm one of them, but my hypothetical children would be people I believe I could love despite all of this, despite all their failures and despite how much they disappoint me. And there's a lot of peace to be found in knowing that.

I always wanted to create something that would last before my own death and that would prove I'm not a total failure; I always wanted to feel deeply connected to someone else; I always wanted to find someone I could forgive for any mistake; I always searched for something that would change my life forever, because I'm tired of running in circles; To have my own family would solve all that. To be fair, at this point it is about this, family, not just about the breeding stuff. To breed and to never met the kid wouldn't be enough, even if I considered doing it once. To marry but to never have children of my own blood wouldn't be enough too.

I realize that I may sound like a pro-lifer, but come on, if life wasn't so wonderful, then what would I die for? What could I mourn enough to make me wish my own death? ,

Why are you here