Discussion What are some common arguments used by pro-lifers and how to refute them?

[skybluesuicide]

Just curious about the arguments you've heard from them, and how to respond. responses that may make them question their logic a bit and see your side. maybe not convince them entirely since sometimes their delusion is beyond curing.

 

[Valky]

feel free to stalk my Twitter account where I often argue with my dear fixers :)

@Valkyra44446443

 

[skybluesuicide]

feel free to stalk my Twitter account where I often argue with my dear fixers :)

@Valkyra44446443

wow. the mental gymnastics these people go through in order to get their point across is crazy, and they seem to really like distorting your arguments

 

[vulkann]

my therapist insists that eventually there will be a cure for every mental illness so you shouldnt ctb because of that possibility. i dont agree at all but im not exactly sure how to refute it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I used to think you could have a reasoned debate with them but I just don't think you can. I get the impression they are very set on certain beliefs that they simply won't change- and their arguments seem based on those beliefs. I suppose we are in a similar position but on the opposite side. It's like that line from The Dark Knight Movie- 'This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.' It starts off nice and respectful but soon spirals into frustration on both sides when they realise they can't change or 'save' us and we realise we're talking to a brick wall. Next time one appears here- I'm going to choose the brick wall to talk to... Save us both the time and a massive headache.

I haven't personally succeeded in any conversations I've had with them. If they don't particularly like an answer- they'll just change the subject. They won't ever concede that you might have a point and- if you happen to say SOME of what they're saying has merit- they'll latch onto that because they maybe think you are going to come around to their way of thinking entirely... in the end.

I'd say the major obstruction is the freedom to choose- they simply don't think we should have it. They seem to advocate that suicide shouldn't be allowed and recovery should be compulsory because they believe everyone has the capacity to live a blissful life. They'll insist in fact that everybody's life has intrinsic value. They simply won't care what we feel about life.

They clearly take the obligation to live very seriously because- if they can't get to you with platitudes and advice you have heard 100's of times before- they'll turn to fear mongering- 'What if your attempt fails and you end up a vegetable? What will God think?' Then, move on to a bit of emotional blackmail- 'Think of what it will do to your family' even your dead family- 'dishonouring their memories.' Oh and let's not forget a bit of good old shaming- 'Life's hard- you just have to get on with it. Otherwise- you're taking the coward's way out and abandoning your responsibilities.'

Honestly- I don't know what to say back to them anymore. I'm hoping I've learnt my lesson not to engage with them now. It just gets me worked up and more suicidal- ironically! It doesn't help them either- I'm sure. They can't 'help' or 'save' me. Better leave them to help people who actually want their help.

I think maybe it depends. If they seem to be looking for virtue signalling- I'd say avoid like the plague. (Unless you want their advice/help.) I suppose I've always liked the idea of having a serious debate about suicide with a pro-lifer but most of the ones here seem to be on some sort of saviour/messiah complex mission.

 

[Valky]

I used to think you could have a reasoned debate with them but I just don't think you can. I get the impression they are very set on certain beliefs that they simply won't change- and their arguments seem based on those beliefs. I suppose we are in a similar position but on the opposite side. It's like that line from The Dark Knight Movie- 'This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.' It starts off nice and respectful but soon spirals into frustration on both sides when they realise they can't change or 'save' us and we realise we're talking to a brick wall. Next time one appears here- I'm going to choose the brick wall to talk to... Save us both the time and a massive headache.

I haven't personally succeeded in any conversations I've had with them. If they don't particularly like an answer- they'll just change the subject. They won't ever concede that you might have a point and- if you happen to say SOME of what they're saying has merit- they'll latch onto that because they maybe think you are going to come around to their way of thinking entirely... in the end.

I'd say the major obstruction is the freedom to choose- they simply don't think we should have it. They seem to advocate that suicide shouldn't be allowed and recovery should be compulsory because they believe everyone has the capacity to live a blissful life. They'll insist in fact that everybody's life has intrinsic value. They simply won't care what we feel about life.

They clearly take the obligation to live very seriously because- if they can't get to you with platitudes and advice you have heard 100's of times before- they'll turn to fear mongering- 'What if your attempt fails and you end up a vegetable? What will God think?' Then, move on to a bit of emotional blackmail- 'Think of what it will do to your family' even your dead family- 'dishonouring their memories.' Oh and let's not forget a bit of good old shaming- 'Life's hard- you just have to get on with it. Otherwise- you're taking the coward's way out and abandoning your responsibilities.'

Honestly- I don't know what to say back to them anymore. I'm hoping I've learnt my lesson not to engage with them now. It just gets me worked up and more suicidal- ironically! It doesn't help them either- I'm sure. They can't 'help' or 'save' me. Better leave them to help people who actually want their help.

I think maybe it depends. If they seem to be looking for virtue signalling- I'd say avoid like the plague. (Unless you want their advice/help.) I suppose I've always liked the idea of having a serious debate about suicide with a pro-lifer but most of the ones here seem to be on some sort of saviour/messiah complex mission.

Very very well said

 

[Forever Sleep]

my therapist insists that eventually there will be a cure for every mental illness so you shouldnt ctb because of that possibility. i dont agree at all but im not exactly sure how to refute it.

Ask them when they think it will be available. Show a keen interest and maybe call their bluff. What will this treatment be? Pharmaceutical? At what stage are they? Human trials? Are the results looking promising? How does the treatment work in the brain? Are there side effects? Does it treat ALL mental illness? Why are they so confident in it? Where did they read about this new 'miracle' cure? Can they give you the details? I'd just bombard the shit out of them with questions...

Not that I'd ever say it but it tempts me to say something like- well- seeing as I'm sure they will find the cure to cancer one day soon- I'm going to take up smoking and alcoholism- because hey- you'll be able to cure lung and liver cancer soon right?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

my therapist insists that eventually there will be a cure for every mental illness so you shouldnt ctb because of that possibility. i dont agree at all but im not exactly sure how to refute it.

Do you know the source and/or the reason of your mental illness? This is question here.

When someone has a broken leg, he can't walk, there is a way to cure it, and a few weeks later he's walking again.

Mental illness can only be cured if the actual source/reason can be cured, otherwise therapy and meds may not result in the expected success. This is the biggest challange to find the reasons because they are not visible to anyone.

 

[DurkheimsCat]

You can't argue with them. They have a fundamentally different view on the value of life. Me, I think there's no purpose to my life and I can't afford to continue living (I'm in the US). I don't have any family or children and all of my friends have moved on. I don't want to continue swimming upstream forever and I'm just too tired. People that don't get this just won't understand because they think life inherently has value.

 

[FuneralCry]

All of the common pro-life "arguments" are insane drivel like "it gets better", "permanent solution to temporary problem" etc. I cannot take people who believe in things like that seriously, they come across as extremely delusional, I just think that pro-lifers are best ignored and forgotten about, like anyway why do other people's opinions matter so much, if someone loves something so dreadful as existing then I don't care.

I bet that many of these people would only change their views if something happened to them to make them wish to ctb as existing can easily get much more unbearable and anyone can end up in a situation of the most extreme suffering at any moment.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Pro-Lifers have a different view of life because their lives satisfy them, they are happy with their lives and mental illness isn't visible, unlike when someone has a broken leg, then the illness is clearly visible. So there is a kind of "disbelieve" that makes it even harder for them to understand our issues. And that results in typical phrases like "it gets better soon, it's going upward soon, you just have to try a little bit harder .... "

 

[captive]

I used to think you could have a reasoned debate with them but I just don't think you can. I get the impression they are very set on certain beliefs that they simply won't change- and their arguments seem based on those beliefs. I suppose we are in a similar position but on the opposite side. It's like that line from The Dark Knight Movie- 'This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.' It starts off nice and respectful but soon spirals into frustration on both sides when they realise they can't change or 'save' us and we realise we're talking to a brick wall. Next time one appears here- I'm going to choose the brick wall to talk to... Save us both the time and a massive headache.

I haven't personally succeeded in any conversations I've had with them. If they don't particularly like an answer- they'll just change the subject. They won't ever concede that you might have a point and- if you happen to say SOME of what they're saying has merit- they'll latch onto that because they maybe think you are going to come around to their way of thinking entirely... in the end.

I'd say the major obstruction is the freedom to choose- they simply don't think we should have it. They seem to advocate that suicide shouldn't be allowed and recovery should be compulsory because they believe everyone has the capacity to live a blissful life. They'll insist in fact that everybody's life has intrinsic value. They simply won't care what we feel about life.

They clearly take the obligation to live very seriously because- if they can't get to you with platitudes and advice you have heard 100's of times before- they'll turn to fear mongering- 'What if your attempt fails and you end up a vegetable? What will God think?' Then, move on to a bit of emotional blackmail- 'Think of what it will do to your family' even your dead family- 'dishonouring their memories.' Oh and let's not forget a bit of good old shaming- 'Life's hard- you just have to get on with it. Otherwise- you're taking the coward's way out and abandoning your responsibilities.'

Honestly- I don't know what to say back to them anymore. I'm hoping I've learnt my lesson not to engage with them now. It just gets me worked up and more suicidal- ironically! It doesn't help them either- I'm sure. They can't 'help' or 'save' me. Better leave them to help people who actually want their help.

I think maybe it depends. If they seem to be looking for virtue signalling- I'd say avoid like the plague. (Unless you want their advice/help.) I suppose I've always liked the idea of having a serious debate about suicide with a pro-lifer but most of the ones here seem to be on some sort of saviour/messiah complex mission.

ironically being able to ctb is never a cowardice, it takes an enormous amount of mental preparation. if you were fighting your life problems before, now you are battling your survival instinct instead and i think it's 100x harder, but they'll never understand. blame religion for tabooing anything related to suicide. how to refute so called pro-lifers? you don't. people can understand your mental pain only if they faced it too.

 

[EmmaD]

I used to think you could have a reasoned debate with them but I just don't think you can. I get the impression they are very set on certain beliefs that they simply won't change- and their arguments seem based on those beliefs. I suppose we are in a similar position but on the opposite side. It's like that line from The Dark Knight Movie- 'This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.' It starts off nice and respectful but soon spirals into frustration on both sides when they realise they can't change or 'save' us and we realise we're talking to a brick wall. Next time one appears here- I'm going to choose the brick wall to talk to... Save us both the time and a massive headache.

I haven't personally succeeded in any conversations I've had with them. If they don't particularly like an answer- they'll just change the subject. They won't ever concede that you might have a point and- if you happen to say SOME of what they're saying has merit- they'll latch onto that because they maybe think you are going to come around to their way of thinking entirely... in the end.

I'd say the major obstruction is the freedom to choose- they simply don't think we should have it. They seem to advocate that suicide shouldn't be allowed and recovery should be compulsory because they believe everyone has the capacity to live a blissful life. They'll insist in fact that everybody's life has intrinsic value. They simply won't care what we feel about life.

They clearly take the obligation to live very seriously because- if they can't get to you with platitudes and advice you have heard 100's of times before- they'll turn to fear mongering- 'What if your attempt fails and you end up a vegetable? What will God think?' Then, move on to a bit of emotional blackmail- 'Think of what it will do to your family' even your dead family- 'dishonouring their memories.' Oh and let's not forget a bit of good old shaming- 'Life's hard- you just have to get on with it. Otherwise- you're taking the coward's way out and abandoning your responsibilities.'

Honestly- I don't know what to say back to them anymore. I'm hoping I've learnt my lesson not to engage with them now. It just gets me worked up and more suicidal- ironically! It doesn't help them either- I'm sure. They can't 'help' or 'save' me. Better leave them to help people who actually want their help.

I think maybe it depends. If they seem to be looking for virtue signalling- I'd say avoid like the plague. (Unless you want their advice/help.) I suppose I've always liked the idea of having a serious debate about suicide with a pro-lifer but most of the ones here seem to be on some sort of saviour/messiah complex mission.

Yep I completely agree. I've given up engaging. I'm not sure there's much they could say to coax me back into arguing with them. I never managed to persuade any of them to see my point of view BUT I do feel happy that my interaction with them led to so much evidence of their prejudice, transphobia, ignorance about mental illness, stupidity, pack mentality and general bitterness. I think it was worth it for that reason alone. No one looking at their posts and replies on Twitter could come away thinking they are kind or balanced or well-meaning in any way.

 

[neurotic]

Convincing arguments are almost always subjective when it comes to ctb. In my experience, they'll never fully understand how I feel, and I don't see any of them as hostile in anyway. They're doing what they think is right, and I appreciate they care. However, it is my body, and people can only understand the concept so far (ie abortion, legalized drugs, etc.) before they start to blame themselves for not being able to save a life.

I really do appreciate some pro life arguments when it's spoken with care and passion. Some times it can be enlightening.

 

[charlotte_]

I tried to argue with pro lifers before, but their arguments are just so repetitive and inconsiderate. It's always that same "it gets better", "i/someone used to be depressed but now i'm/they're good" or "you are so much luckier than some other people". That's like, the only thing they know to say. It is as if they forgot that they wouldn't be in a good place now if it's not for others in the world suffering, as if we can control our mental illnesses from coming. It's honestly just a waste of time lmao.