Weird reactions in animals being euthanized with pentobarbital

[Wrennie]

I was going through some videos on YouTube of animal euthanasia (which is just as tragic and hard to watch as it sounds) to do more research on the process of a Nembutal death. Weird things I noticed is that most of them still had their eyes open long after being injected with the drug and never closed them even when they were pronounced dead, and one kitty even seemed as though he was conscious when he went into respiratory arrest. The video where that happens is linked below

(warning: it is extremely distressing to watch and even made me cry)



Was that particular vet just incompetent and botched the procedure? Shouldn't respiratory arrest occur only after the animal is unconscious? Or did it just look like the kitty was still awake because his eyes weren't closed? He was also moving around, but in ways that looked more voluntary than involuntary.

In my emails to Pegasos they keep assuring me that Nembutal is the gold standard for a peaceful death by veterinarians, but potentially being conscious while suffocating doesn't sound like a peaceful exit to me. If the eyes aren't closed how can the anesthesiologist who administers the drug to a human tell that they are asleep? And if Nembutal depresses your CNS then, what if, rather than being "asleep" it's just that you can't voluntarily move your body, and then you cannot communicate to the people around you that you're struggling to breathe as you die?

 

[WornOutLife]

Hey Wrennie!
This is certainly heart-breaking. I hope not to have to do that to my dog.
I think the cat was unconscious but it looked like he wasn't because of his opened eyes.

 

[LastLoveLetter]

I'm not an expert, but I think the vet may have botched the procedure. It doesn't look like this was handled carefully or respectfully at all. I could be wrong though - I hope I am and that this poor baby boy was not conscious. RIP little one.

EDIT: I just saw this on the Blue Cross website. Perhaps the cat was unconscious after all. I certainly hope this was the case:

"In the few minutes after death you may see reflex muscle movement, or involuntary gasps. These are not signs of life, in fact, they are reflexes denoting that death has occurred. The eyes usually stay open and the bladder sometimes empties."

 

[JustAMatterOfTime]

Had to ignore I can't watch that

 

[Odwin]

I am now sadder than before.

 

[peacefulhorizons]

For what I've gathered from this video, it was never said pentobarbital (there's other anesthetic choices) was used but let's assume it was:

Most of the time a paralytic and/or phenytoin (Dilantin) is administered in addition to pentobarbital so there's a 99% chance this incident was because of that (improper administration procedure), not pentobarbital.

Also you have to remember that during general anesthesia your eyes are taped shut (because they may open) so the cat not having their eyes closed really isn't clinically relevant here.

 

[LastFlowers]

This does concern me, especially since I witnessed a similar thing happen to my own cat when they were put to sleep..and my cat was most definitely conscious and started choking with eyes fluttering wide open during the whole ordeal, idk what happened or if something went wrong because at that age, I didn't know what was 'supposed' to happen. That's why, even though I believe in the right to die and end suffering, I would not be quick to euthanize a pet. I know they gave my cat another substance before the one that ends their lives, I forgot what the whole procedure is, perhaps they botched the timing of the steps...it was not a pleasant memory, and the vet/assistants were cold about it.

 

[Wrennie]

Regarding the open eye thing, in the following video the veterinarian explains that a weird thing about animals is that they don't close their eyes, so I guess that answers that question

 

[LastFlowers]

Regarding the open eye thing, in the following video the veterinarian explains that a weird thing about animals is that they don't close their eyes, so I guess that answers that question

Do the eyes simply lazily hang open or can they flutter open wildly with some focus to the pupil? What about choking? Or movement where the animal tries to sit itself upright?

 

[Isisnefert]

Esto me preocupa, especialmente porque presencié que algo similar le sucedió a mi propio gato cuando lo pusieron a dormir ... y mi gato estaba definitivamente consciente y comenzó a ahogarse con los ojos abiertos de par en par durante toda la prueba, no sé qué sucedió o si algo salió mal porque a esa edad, no sabía lo que 'se suponía' que iba a pasar. Por eso, aunque creo en el derecho a morir y poner fin al sufrimiento, no me apresuraría a sacrificar a una mascota. Sé que le dieron a mi gato otra sustancia antes de la que acaba con sus vidas, olvidé en qué consiste todo el procedimiento, tal vez estropearon la sincronización de los pasos ... no fue un recuerdo agradable, y el veterinario / asistentes se enfriaron al respecto. eso.

This is terrible, I'm Sorry

 

[Wrennie]

Do the eyes simply lazily hang open or can they flutter open wildly with some focus to the pupil? What about choking? Or movement where the animal tries to sit itself upright?

In most of the videos the eyes just stay completely wide open, as if they're peering straight into your soul. Also the kitty in the first video I linked choked as if he was going to vomit and thrashed around a lot.

 

[lofticries]

When my cat got euthanized his reaction wasn't as extreme as that. He just drifted off with his eyes open while laying on his belly. I would have been traumatized if my cat reacted like the one in the vid.:(

 

[Butterfly65]

They stopped using the lethal injection for death row inmates for execution because they came to find out that it's not so peaceful. In fact they were injecting the person with a paralytic first so it looked as if he wasn't suffering or struggling but in fact they were. It was taking too long for the person to die also. Oklahoma is now on the cusp of using Nitrogen for execution as it is shown to be more humane and peaceful.

 

[Buffy5120]

They stopped using the lethal injection for death row inmates for execution because they came to find out that it's not so peaceful. In fact they were injecting the person with a paralytic first so it looked as if he wasn't suffering or struggling but in fact they were. It was taking too long for the person to die also. Oklahoma is now on the cusp of using Nitrogen for execution as it is shown to be more humane and peaceful.

Is this the same for Pegasos?

 

[Butterfly65]

Is this the same for Pegasos?

No Pegasos uses Nembutal still.

 

[intr0verse]

In the second video the doc clearly mentions propofol so i assume they didn't used pentobarbital. In fact, in many western countries they've switched to either propofol and/or embutramide for animal euthanasia (T61). I guess it depends on the veterinary what euthanasia agent they want to use.

 

[DeadButDreaming]

In the movies people shut their eyes when they die; in reality, people, and animals, die with their eyes open very often.

Ask a hunter.

 

[mini_weeny]

I have unfortunately put down 3 pets in the last 8 years. The process for pets is: they first put a kind of tranquilizer to the animal, and then the lethal injection. 2 of my pets went peacefully they just stopped breathing, one the vet botched the procedure and it started choking because they hadn't the lethal injection ready so the tranquilizer seemed to be causing a respiratory arrest, so it took like a minute for her to get the lethal injection and go but definitely suffered and left with an expression of pain in her face. Definitely gasped for air. And yes they all die with their eyes open . I believe it was N because the substance is pink the magical pink substance that puts pets to sleep.
Very traumatic by the way, just remembering it has scrambled my brain quite a bit.
But I would say the pink substance, presumably N or something of the same family of meds, acts quick I would say less than a minute intravenously. Maybe some 30 or 40 seconds. Just the time it takes for the med to get to the brain I assume and it turns it down really fast.
Same as when u get surgery, the knock out med they use takes less than 10 seconds since they always tell you to count from 10 to 1 and you never actually make it past 5 hahahaha

 

[intr0verse]

If they first used a tranquilizer, most likely the euthanasia agent wasn't N. There is no need for that with N.
Euthanasia agents, regardless of their nature, are all green/pink dye to mark them as dangerous for the staff in case the labels can't be read anymore. N is the most peaceful way out, i have no doubts about that.

 

[knowman]

If they first used a tranquilizer, most likely the euthanasia agent wasn't N. There is no need for that with N.
Euthanasia agents, regardless of their nature, are all green/pink dye to mark them as dangerous for the staff in case the labels can't be read anymore. N is the most peaceful way out, i have no doubts about that.

Hello Introverse. If I were to somehow find a way to acquire Pentobarbital, can I drink the mixture, even if it's listed as injectable? I am unclear as to how to use N in this form successfully. Thank you very much.

 

[nihilism44]

I actually work in a veterinary clinic and I assist in euthanasias almost everyday. I know it looks frightening, but the weird respiratory patterns and "thrashing" you're seeing is actually after they are dead. It is the body's natural response to dying. I promise you they are not feeling a thing as they are already gone.

If they first used a tranquilizer, most likely the euthanasia agent wasn't N. There is no need for that with N.
Euthanasia agents, regardless of their nature, are all green/pink dye to mark them as dangerous for the staff in case the labels can't be read anymore. N is the most peaceful way out, i have no doubts about that

We actually do use a mild tranquilizer before we place the IV catheter to relax the animal so that the process does not cause any distress at all.

 

[Bullit]

In

I was going through some videos on YouTube of animal euthanasia (which is just as tragic and hard to watch as it sounds) to do more research on the process of a Nembutal death. Weird things I noticed is that most of them still had their eyes open long after being injected with the drug and never closed them even when they were pronounced dead, and one kitty even seemed as though he was conscious when he went into respiratory arrest. The video where that happens is linked below

(warning: it is extremely distressing to watch and even made me cry)



Was that particular vet just incompetent and botched the procedure? Shouldn't respiratory arrest occur only after the animal is unconscious? Or did it just look like the kitty was still awake because his eyes weren't closed? He was also moving around, but in ways that looked more voluntary than involuntary.

In my emails to Pegasos they keep assuring me that Nembutal is the gold standard for a peaceful death by veterinarians, but potentially being conscious while suffocating doesn't sound like a peaceful exit to me. If the eyes aren't closed how can the anesthesiologist who administers the drug to a human tell that they are asleep? And if Nembutal depresses your CNS then, what if, rather than being "asleep" it's just that you can't voluntarily move your body, and then you cannot communicate to the people around you that you're struggling to breathe as you die?

the guy who did it was wearing a turban...

 

[BlankUser]

My parrot was euthanized. I didn't want to see it because it was too distressing for me. But my boyfriend said that everything happened within seconds. The bird just closed his eyes moments after injection. I later saw him, held him, he looked like he was sleeping, but he was cold... We took some feathers out to remember him. Fuck I'm crying now.

 

[k75]

I couldn't bring myself to watch the video, but I don't think it sounds like it was botched.

I had to have my cat euthanized last year. The vet warned me beforehand that her eyes would probably stay open. I'm sure she explained more, but I was too distraught to absorb it. I'm pretty sure she was also tranquilized first. The whole thing took seconds, and it was confirmed by stethoscope and stuff, so I don't feel like it was painful. There was twitching after for awhile, but it was definitely after she was gone. The whole thing was definitely more traumatic for me than for her.

 

[BlankUser]

I couldn't bring myself to watch the video, but I don't think it sounds like it was botched.

I had to have my cat euthanized last year. The vet warned me beforehand that her eyes would probably stay open. I'm sure she explained more, but I was too distraught to absorb it. I'm pretty sure she was also tranquilized first. The whole thing took seconds, and it was confirmed by stethoscope and stuff, so I don't feel like it was painful. There was twitching after for awhile, but it was definitely after she was gone. The whole thing was definitely more traumatic for me than for her.

Indeed. It's very traumatic for us when we get so attached to our pets. And our pets are our family members. But we do the best to reduce their suffering.

 

[The Lonely]

I actually work in a veterinary clinic and I assist in euthanasias almost everyday. I know it looks frightening, but the weird respiratory patterns and "thrashing" you're seeing is actually after they are dead. It is the body's natural response to dying. I promise you they are not feeling a thing as they are already gone.

We actually do use a mild tranquilizer before we place the IV catheter to relax the animal so that the process does not cause any distress at all.

So, for a human being taking Clonazepam before taking N would be better then?

I got the point here…
I am not being insensitive about the animals suffering or anything, but we are viewing the consequences in animals While we are searching how it will work in ourselves!!

Since there are not many detailed information about N in humans, there is plenty about animals.
I didn't watched to this video(cant), but I Read a lot about euthanasia "best practices" in animals. With several advertisements in order to not make the animal suffer etc…

In vets they got N as injection (not by swallowing 200ml amount of something that was supposed to be done by IV via) with anti emetic improvised. That and the fact of not having any doctor with us or a proper tranquilizer injection previous the N administration.
Definitely doesn't seem nothing like "Peaceful"…

Reading about euthanasia in animals I got pretty aware about what to expect and makes the P book more like a fairy tale.
But even so I'm myself managing to order N.

This readings along with other methods (euthanizing pigs with gas, for example) prevented me from CTB so far.

Anyway, I wish no one would suffer, neither us or animals.

 

[Aap]

Holy crap. More pearl clutching. The Cat did not receive an IV injection of pentobarbital; I'm assuming it was either oral or intraperitoneal (in the abdomen). Cats are known to have potential paradoxical excitation after receiving pentobarbital in rare cases.

Trying to extrapolate effects in humans from animals, especially those not closely related to humans, is a hit or miss proposition and why animal testing of medication is never a substitute for trials in humans.

Getting caught up about stupid things like eyes being closed or not is pointless. Millions of people have been sedated throughout the years with barbiturates, such as thiopental, for surgery, and many have had a peaceful exit with N.

A random video of a cat that received an unknown medication for euthanasia is just a video of a cat that received an unknown medication. There are multiple videos of people who have taken N in Europe. They are all the same.

The hand wringing serves no purpose, especially when one does not have access to N in the first place.

 

[Aap]

@The Lonely what are you talking about? Many of your facts seem incorrect, and you seem to misunderstand some of what you get right. First, an antiemetic injection isn't used in veterinary euthanasia. Likewise, you complain that "a proper tranquilizer injection" isn't given at dignitas prior to consuming N. Why on earth would it be? It is difficult to drink anything while unconscious.

You are just flat wrong that there isn't much information about barbiturate usage in humans. Again, millions of people throughout the last 70 years have been put to sleep for surgery using barbiturates. It is fast and as peaceful as anything could be. Likewise, euthanasia of animals with IV barbiturates is unbelievably fast. You completely misunderstand the use of a pre-sedative in animals. It boils down to a few reasons (avoid rare paradoxical excitation in a few species, the extremely concentrated euthanasia solutions likely cause some burning when injected, and propofol spoils very quickly so vets can use the dirty propofol for pre-sedation).

Death often isn't pretty, and agonal breathing can sound distressing to observers. This in no way means the individual is suffering or not completely at peace. I understand fear of death or fear of discomfort. However, needless freaking about about N not being peaceful is as misguided and just plain wrong as it gets. It is one shade removed from complaining that water isn't wet.