We do not own our bodies!.

[Rational man]

I was reading an interesting Buddhist article about FEAR, suffering and death. Buddhists believe that ACCEPTANCE that WE are impermanet guests within our body reduces the FEAR of pain and dying. Its like they see outsidede of themselves.!.

 

[GentleJerk]

I used to love reading about this stuff. But my suffering and illness was deliberately inflicted upon me by someone else. If I had become ill due to natural causes, I could certainly find the strength to be unafraid and accept suffering...

But my health was taken by another person, maliciously. In this way, they exercised control and domination, ownership if you will, of my body by detroying my health, and I am now being subjected to this torture by their hand. I cannot simply accept that. I feel justified in not wanting to continue living when my illness becomes intolerable. I will deal with whatever karma arises from the decision to end my life. I only hope the unwholesome karma is greater for that person who poisoned me than for myself due to suicide. Since I would never have killed myself in the first place were it not for their actions.

 

[Rational man]

I used to love reading about this stuff. But my suffering and illness was deliberately inflicted upon me by someone else. If I had become ill due to natural causes, I could certainly find the strength to be unafraid and accept suffering...

But my health was taken by another person, maliciously. In this way, they exercised control and domination, ownership if you will, of my body by detroying my health, and I am now being subjected to this torture by their hand. I cannot simply accept that. I feel justified in not wanting to continue living when my illness becomes intolerable. I will deal with whatever karma arises from the decision to end my life. I only hope the unwholesome karma is greater for that person who poisoned me than for myself due to suicide. Since I would never have killed myself in the first place were it not for their actions.

Profound words. Thanks for sharing. PEOPLE who create torture in others are making their own karma. They are painful souls.

i don't have much time left due terminal disease but i wanted to say i love you all on the forum. You are my special friends and family i never really had. In the end we all die, we let go of life and we separate from our worldly manifestation. Peace.

 

[GentleJerk]

Profound words. Thanks for sharing. PEOPLE who create torture in others are making their own karma. They are painful souls.

i don't have much time left due terminal disease but i wanted to say i love you all on the forum. You are my special friends and family i never really had. In the end we all die, we let go of life and we separate from our worldly manifestation. Peace.

Gonna cherish every minute your still around here, @Rational man . Peace indeed.

 

[No Entertainment]

So who own our body?

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

You belong to the World Health Order and The Leader, do not dare damage government property by damaging yourself or you will be jailed for a class 3 felony of governmental property destruction. Long live The Nation, praise be The Leader.

 

[Hurt]

Our bodies are our homes

 

[FuneralCry]

I think that it can be torture being trapped in this human body. I look forward to the day in which I can finally escape from it. I hate how I was forced to exist and that I have to endure this life, but the one comforting thought is that all this is temporary. In comparison to death, my life seems so meaningless and insignificant. I'm sorry that you have to endure a terminal disease. Life certainly is very unfair, and it is sad how so much suffering exists. I wish you peace.

 

[Rational man]

I think what the Buddhists are saying is that humans identity strongly with the material and physical.existence. This generates fear.and.anxiety. So.when.we.are dying, we.cling to life.and people and yet we will die.

So who own our body?

We.are.part of the cycle of life as in nature. We just.exist within the temporary body..

 

[CTBgenuine]

I think what the Buddhists are saying is that humans identity strongly with the material and physical.existence. This generates fear.and.anxiety. So.when.we.are dying, we.cling to life.and people and yet we will die.

We.are.part of the cycle of life as in nature. We just.exist within the temporary body..

No! They're saying our soul is a guest in our human body because Buddhists believe in reincarnation. Its nothing to do with materialism

 

[myopybyproxy]

funny how humans come to similar profound / metaphysical conclusions with the help of illicit substances

thinking of the body as a temporary costume is a rather comforting attitude for me. I will not be stuck here forever.

 

[noaccount]

Well true I don't own my body, I am my body.

 

[No Entertainment]

Well true I don't own my body, I am my body.

That's true if you define yourself as whole body. But if you define your 'self' as the consciousness that your brain produce, then your 'self' and the body(and brain) are two separate things.

 

[noaccount]

Consciousness is something the body does just like digestion and respiration are something the body does.

 

[Shu]

No! They're saying our soul is a guest in our human body because Buddhists believe in reincarnation. Its nothing to do with materialism

What point are you trying to make? Just curious? What do you mean it has nothing to do with materialism?

 

[Kestrel]

If it is of interest to anyone -

Buddhists do not believe in reincarnation as Hindus do, they believe in rebirth - a bit tricky to describe i'll try to be brief.

The Three Lakshanas underpin Buddhism, they are what make up reality - Dukka (suffering) Anicca (Impermenance) and Anatta (for briefness here, I will describe this as a lack of a soul/self). This thread I think is talking about Anicca and Anatta.

Buddhists believe everything to be impermanent (apart for Nibbana but that's a whole other discussion) and this links closely to the idea that humans do not have a consistent, eternal 'self'. Hence reincarnation is not applicable to Buddhism as their is no 'self' to be transplanted into a new life. The self - both our physical bodies and our conceptual idea of 'self' - is impermanent and our attatchment to both causes Dukka. Everything requires conditioned and contingent existence in Buddhism - Pratītyasamutpāda - and our bodies are as dependant on other things as much as everything else in this world. We do not own our bodies because the conditions that gave rise to it do, and those conditions will change hence our bodies will change. Any attatchment to something that will change and eventually die will lead to Dukka.

Buddhists (in most traditions I think, but you do get secular Buddhists who are a bit less literal with it) believe we are made up of 5 Skhandas which include Rupa (form) and mental perception. Rebirth entails these Skhands transferred to different beings. There is no singular 'self'. King Milinda's Questions of The Chariot describes this well through similie. Taken fromna religious studies website -

But what is a chariot? Nagasena asked. Is it the wheels, or the axles, or the reigns, or the frame, or the seat, or the draught pole? Is it a combination of those elements? Or is it found outside those elements?


The King answered no to each question. Then there is no chariot! Nagasena said.


Now the King acknowledged the designation "chariot" depended on these constituent parts, but that "chariot" itself is a concept, or a mere name.


Just so, Nagasena said, "Nagasena" is a designation for something conceptual. It is a mere name. When the constituent parts are present we call it a chariot; When the Five Skandhas are present, we call it a being.


Nagasena added, " This was said by our sister Vajira when she was face to face with the Lord Buddha." Vajira was a nun and a disciple of the historical Buddha. She used the same chariot simile in an earlier text, the Vajira Sutta (Pali Sutta-pitaka, Samyutta Nikaya 5:10). However, in the Vajira Sutta the nun was speaking to the demon, Mara.


Another way to understand the chariot simile is to imagine the chariot being taken apart. At what point in the dis-assembly does the chariot cease to be a chariot? We can update the simile to make it an automobile. As we disassemble the car, at what point is it not a car? When we take off the wheels? When we remove the seats? When we pry off the cylinder head?

 

[Seeking_Peace]

We are just a host. The bacteria,fungus, etc run our body.

 

[CTBgenuine]

What point are you trying to make? Just curious? What do you mean it has nothing to do with materialism?

I was simplifying his point.

 

[Lost Magic]

yeah, and I think the more you don't want to be trapped in a body, the more you want to break free from attachment to it and this world. It isn't easy though. We are programmed to live and suffer it seems.

 

[W’ren]

If it is of interest to anyone -

Buddhists do not believe in reincarnation as Hindus do, they believe in rebirth - a bit tricky to describe i'll try to be brief.

The Three Lakshanas underpin Buddhism, they are what make up reality - Dukka (suffering) Anicca (Impermenance) and Anatta (for briefness here, I will describe this as a lack of a soul/self). This thread I think is talking about Anicca and Anatta.

Buddhists believe everything to be impermanent (apart for Nibbana but that's a whole other discussion) and this links closely to the idea that humans do not have a consistent, eternal 'self'. Hence reincarnation is not applicable to Buddhism as their is no 'self' to be transplanted into a new life. The self - both our physical bodies and our conceptual idea of 'self' - is impermanent and our attatchment to both causes Dukka. Everything requires conditioned and contingent existence in Buddhism - Pratītyasamutpāda - and our bodies are as dependant on other things as much as everything else in this world. We do not own our bodies because the conditions that gave rise to it do, and those conditions will change hence our bodies will change. Any attatchment to something that will change and eventually die will lead to Dukka.

Buddhists (in most traditions I think, but you do get secular Buddhists who are a bit less literal with it) believe we are made up of 5 Skhandas which include Rupa (form) and mental perception. Rebirth entails these Skhands transferred to different beings. There is no singular 'self'. King Milinda's Questions of The Chariot describes this well through similie. Taken fromna religious studies website -

But what is a chariot? Nagasena asked. Is it the wheels, or the axles, or the reigns, or the frame, or the seat, or the draught pole? Is it a combination of those elements? Or is it found outside those elements?


The King answered no to each question. Then there is no chariot! Nagasena said.


Now the King acknowledged the designation "chariot" depended on these constituent parts, but that "chariot" itself is a concept, or a mere name.


Just so, Nagasena said, "Nagasena" is a designation for something conceptual. It is a mere name. When the constituent parts are present we call it a chariot; When the Five Skandhas are present, we call it a being.


Nagasena added, " This was said by our sister Vajira when she was face to face with the Lord Buddha." Vajira was a nun and a disciple of the historical Buddha. She used the same chariot simile in an earlier text, the Vajira Sutta (Pali Sutta-pitaka, Samyutta Nikaya 5:10). However, in the Vajira Sutta the nun was speaking to the demon, Mara.


Another way to understand the chariot simile is to imagine the chariot being taken apart. At what point in the dis-assembly does the chariot cease to be a chariot? We can update the simile to make it an automobile. As we disassemble the car, at what point is it not a car? When we take off the wheels? When we remove the seats? When we pry off the cylinder head?

I find this fascinating, thank you for taking the time to post it.

I believe in spirit or self, and that the physical form is a shell and nothing more..

However i am now going to look into the Buddhist chariot simile and its relation to myself and my beliefs.

As an eclectic witch, i am spiritual in nature and being eclectic- i take my spirituality from everything i know- and it mèlles into unique sense of self and what works for me…

Follow your inner bell, always.

 

[Lost Magic]

I find this fascinating, thank you for taking the time to post it.

I believe in spirit or self, and that the physical form is a shell and nothing more..

However i am now going to look into the Buddhist chariot simile and its relation to myself and my beliefs.

As an eclectic witch, i am spiritual in nature and being eclectic- i take my spirituality from everything i know- and it mèlles into unique sense of self and what works for me…

Follow your inner bell, always.

Yeah, Buddhism does have some interesting philosophies and wisdom, but they believe in re-incarnation. An ongoing cycle of life, death and rebirth That's a hellish thought. No?

 

[W’ren]

Yeah, Buddhism does have some interesting philosophies and wisdom, but they believe in re-incarnation. That's a hellish thought.

True, but coming back as a dog or cat in a *good home* would probably be pretty nice… (I say this while looking at my rescue cats and thinking of my beloved rescue dog (rip Indy)

I treat them like they' re precious. They ARE!!!!

 

[Lost Magic]

True, but coming back as a dog or cat in a *good home* would probably be pretty nice… (I say this while looking at my rescue cats and thinking of my beloved rescue dog (rip Indy)

I treat them like they' re precious. They ARE!!!!

aww, I love cats and dogs as well. They are more compassionate than most people. Good for you for looking after them.