We are not irrational. Humanity is delusional. Religion is irrational.

[Luchs]

Delusion is necessary for our species to function. Delusion is normal, modern rationality is not.

 

[milly]

Our laws are based on religion, but most people where I live are not religious. Murder is the worst crime one can commit, human life should only be prolonged no matter how life turns out and no matter what we want. Many of our laws are stupid and should be changed and our laws are stupid because people are stupid. God is an illusion! The simplest explanation is that there is no God - no one created the universe and no one decides our fate, Stephen Hawking said. We live in a world where our pets are treated better than humans. I am expected to suffer for decades, I am expected to die of old age, the worst death. I have to shorten my life if I want to die with dignity, but the body is not created to kill itself so it is difficult.

What crime in your opinion should be considered most foul?

 

[Nightmare Painting]

You can believe in a superior being and not believe or follow organized religion; Deism.

Humanity as a whole is a delusional species that requires mental gymnastics to keep pushing forward. People's constant obsession towards naive optimism, hope, magical thinking, denial, and lies are just coping mechanisms people use to make themselves feel better and to justify the suffering inherent to life.

Anything to avoid having to face the reality that the carrot at the end was not worth the arduous journey to try to get to it. The people who spout so much toxic positivity are the ones who can't face reality and haven't experienced the true horrors of life that can break them.

 

[Luchs]

You can believe in a superior being and not believe or follow organized religion; Deism.

Humanity as a whole is a delusional species that requires mental gymnastics to keep pushing forward. People's constant obsession towards naive optimism, hope, magical thinking, denial, and lies are just coping mechanisms people use to make themselves feel better and to justify the suffering inherent to life.

Anything to avoid having to face the reality that the carrot at the end was not worth the arduous journey to try to get to it. The people who can spout so much toxic positivity are the ones who can't face reality and haven't experienced the horrors of life that can break them.

How can you fault people for being happy? These coping mechanisms are normal paets of being a human that are just defective in us. What do you rather want, a deluded, but happy humanity, or a self inflicted genocide out of existential angst? What is the better future? I don't get why people think coping mechanisms are bad, they exist for a reason.

 

[Nightmare Painting]

How can you fault people for being happy? These coping mechanisms are normal paets of being a human that are just defective in us. What do you rather want, a deluded, but happy humanity, or a self inflicted genocide out of existential angst? What is the better future? I don't get why people think coping mechanisms are bad, they exist for a reason.

Self inflicted genocide would be the kinder end than a prolonged ending built on the bloody backs and suffering of all the billions that came before and the ones that will come after us. Humanity is already destroying itself without existential angst, it's just prolonging the inevitable. There is no future in a plane of existence where suffering is the default state of being and nothing but suffering and death are guaranteed.

Being deluded can help someone cope but it can also cause profound harm to the ones that can't lie to themselves. If humanity was able to face reality we wouldn't be prolonging the misery of those who don't want to be here.

 

[Luchs]

Self inflicted genocide would be the kinder end than a prolonged ending built on the bloody backs and suffering of all the billions that came before and the ones that will come after us. Humanity is already destroying itself without existential angst, it's just prolonging the inevitable. There is no future in a plane of existence where suffering is the default state of being and nothing but suffering and death are guaranteed.

Being deluded can help someone cope but it can also cause profound harm to the ones that can't lie to themselves. If humanity was able to face reality we wouldn't be prolonging the misery of those who don't want to be here.

You just assume that suffering is the default state because that is how you, just like me or other people on here perceive the world, but it is not. Look at Bhutan, it is one of the poorest, worst countries on earth, but thepeople there are happy and content. I would honestly have a happy deluded future over the destruction of the universe.

The death of humanity is pretty much the destruction of the universe, because as far as we know we are the only true sentient beings in the galaxy, so our demise would mean its end, because if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, did it actually make a sound?

 

[demuic]

Self inflicted genocide would be the kinder end than a prolonged ending built on the bloody backs and suffering of all the billions that came before and the ones that will come after us. Humanity is already destroying itself without existential angst, it's just prolonging the inevitable. There is no future in a plane of existence where suffering is the default state of being and nothing but suffering and death are guaranteed.

Being deluded can help someone cope but it can also cause profound harm to the ones that can't lie to themselves. If humanity was able to face reality we wouldn't be prolonging the misery of those who don't want to be here.

Unfortunately it's too hard for most people to face so they would prefer to craft tales of grandiosity and belief in the immortal life of humanity. Delusions ultimately help no one as humanity is indeed built on those and it is that very thing among many others that will lead to this species' destruction. Ignore the suffering of others that slave away in some factory or in the streets so you can live out your happy li(f)e. Pretend it all has a meaning and you can do whatever you want and it will all somehow work out. Pretend that the earth has infinite resources and untold ecological destruction won't somehow come back to bite you in the ass. Pretend that everyone always gets what they deserve. Etc. Society is built on a series of "ideas" and "myths" that always have a tenuous relationship with reality. Facing reality would be the first step toward creating a better society if that were possible but that goes against human nature itself and thusly we have the situation we are in and have been in for thousands of years.

Humanity's end isn't something that can be avoided. Those who are aware of these things are aware and those who aren't, aren't.

 

[whatevs]

You just assume that suffering is the default state because that is how you, just like me or other people on here perceive the world, but it is not. Look at Bhutan, it is one of the poorest, worst countries on earth, but thepeople there are happy and content. I would honestly have a happy deluded future over the destruction of the universe.

The death of humanity is pretty much the destruction of the universe, because as far as we know we are the only true sentient beings in the galaxy, so our demise would mean its end, because if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, did it actually make a sound?

You hit the nail in the head. Many in here suffer from the Cioran Bias, "I'm miserable therefore everyone is". Sorry but no, most people are not miserable, they love life. This is why suicide is so abhorrent to them.

 

[Luchs]

You hit the nail in the head. Many in here suffer from the Cioran Bias, "I'm miserable therefore everyone is". Sorry but no, most people are not miserable, they love life. This is why suicide is so abhorrent to them.

They are in the exactly opposite position of us. We are so miserable, we can't imagine that most others are happy, while normal people are so happy they don't understand how someone can be as miserable as we are.

 

[Journeytoletgo]

I miss being religious/delusional. At least despite my disadvantages in (looks), I still felt I had to keep pushing. Now that I left Christianity it's like it broke my brain as I wasn't prepared for it and to see life from not a subjective lens. I don't even want to carry on anymore it just made me feel worse. For me personally I think religion made me less scared of Life and to progress despite it being a really crappy hand dealt.

Delusion is necessary for our species to function. Delusion is normal, modern rationality is not.

I have to agree.

 

[Zzzzz]

.

The death of humanity is pretty much the destruction of the universe, because as far as we know we are the only true sentient beings in the galaxy, so our demise would mean its end, because if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, did it actually make a sound?

Humans have an incredible sense of arrogance. To think the entire universe would cease to exist,as if the universe needs humanity or we are God's gift to it. If a tree falls , it will make a sound. Non human animals will hear it. It's an interesting thought experiment but I don't think there's anyevidence to think a sound won't be made because no one can hear it. That's like saying the universe would disappear if all life died out. This flies in the face a bit of the idea of an objective reality outside of someone's perceived reality.

 

[Luchs]

Humans have an incredible sense of arrogance. To think the entire universe would cease to exist,as if the universe needs humanity or we are God's gift to it. If a tree falls , it will make a sound. Non human animals will hear it. It's an interesting thought experiment but I don't think there's anyevidence to think a sound won't be made because no one can hear it. That's like saying the universe would disappear if all life died out. This flies in the face a bit of the idea of an objective reality outside of someone's perceived reality.

The point is not that it ceases to be, but that if no one is there to witness it it might as well have disappeared. Of course the tree will make a noise, but does it actually matter if no one witnesses it?

 

[Nightmare Painting]

You hit the nail in the head. Many in here suffer from the Cioran Bias, "I'm miserable therefore everyone is". Sorry but no, most people are not miserable, they love life. This is why suicide is so abhorrent to them.

I never said that everyone is miserable but being fortunate and pretending that the horrors in the world don't exist doesn't make the world acceptable. Delusions from the fortunate are harmful to the ones who have suffered misfortune because nothing gets done to actually help them.

I also don't agree that most people are happy. Even people who are fortunate are in some sort of middle ground where they generally feel okay while they're chasing the next career, partner, food, goal, or whatever to get their next shot of temporary dopamine.

"Living happily" itself is a myth. Nobody on this floating rock is consistently "happy" every single day unless there is something seriously neurologically wrong with them that makes them that way. Life itself is inherently suffering - this isn't some edgy edict, it's the fundamental nature of the human condition; we are animals, and moreso social animals, which, not unlike elephants, zebras, dolphins, cows, or donkeys, are biologically wired and adapted to chasing short-term fulfillment, and avoiding pain and suffering - to the degree we experience and remember negative feelings and experiences far, far deeper and longer than we do positive experiences. This is the telltale sign of our inescapable animal nature - the hardwiring that makes suffering so inherently unavoidable, and pleasure seemingly so elusive.

Unfortunately it's too hard for most people to face so they would prefer to craft tales of grandiosity and belief in the immortal life of humanity. Delusions ultimately help no one as humanity is indeed built on those and it is that very thing among many others that will lead to this species' destruction. Ignore the suffering of others that slave away in some factory or in the streets so you can live out your happy li(f)e. Pretend it all has a meaning and you can do whatever you want and it will all somehow work out. Pretend that the earth has infinite resources and untold ecological destruction won't somehow come back to bite you in the ass. Pretend that everyone always gets what they deserve. Etc. Society is built on a series of "ideas" and "myths" that always have a tenuous relationship with reality. Facing reality would be the first step toward creating a better society if that were possible but that goes against human nature itself and thusly we have the situation we are in and have been in for thousands of years.

Humanity's end isn't something that can be avoided. Those who are aware of these things are aware and those who aren't, aren't.

I think you and the OP would both appreciate this quote

"I don't think there's a motive, atleast not one that is operating at a conscious level, per-se. People in any civilization are inculcated with a set of beliefs just as members of a cult - they are raised with a rather static lens they are taught is the "correct" way to experience, perceive, and make sense of reality; this can be something as simple as "things fall down because of gravity", to "money is a very important pursuit in life", or "communism is evil". Taught repeatedly both explicitly and implicitly, one begins to lose themselves in these messages, and the differentiation between "self" and this static perception becomes very fluid - an attack on this perception, even in the form of a piece of information that creates a stark juxtaposition, triggers a fear response, much like that of an animal encountering a predator. The idea is, we may have incredibly advanced technology, but we still operate psychologically at the level of tribespeople; we become incredibly attached to cultural belief systems the same way we attach to our mothers and fathers as children, even if they abuse and berate us.

This comes to the heart of the problem, in my mind. Our cultural apparatus no longer seems to have answers for us, and the chase of money, status, materialism, et al - the hollow idolatry of late capitalism - is failing writ large to satiate our existential fears, if in large part because the system pumping it out has become so corrupt and inequitable that it is losing its legitimacy, and with it, its ability to hold us under the "civilized" spell. But even so, you have billions who have been raised to believe in its wicked fairy tale, to see and judge themselves and others through its objectifying, atomizing, reductionistic lenses, and for the most part know no other way to perceive reality. This is a large part of why "mental illnesses", suicide, and childlessness have skyrocketed and continue to - these are perhaps natural reactions to perceiving reality accurately, beyond any cultural spell.

This said, how does one continue to exist in a world that is not only rapidly changing for the worse - where an extinction crisis is looming large not so far over the horizon, where one is more likely than ever to be socially isolated, exposed to toxic levels of pollution, live in a terribly unhealthy fashion, work an unrewarding, mundane job that barely pays enough - and NOT want to kill yourself, or at the very least be chronically depressed?

Well, the answer, which also includes the answer to your question, is to double-down and become even more insane in the ways of the culture. The role of culture itself is transcendence - to deny death itself and give life a sense of permanency; culture becomes the self and the self becomes culture, but by becoming so intertwined, one becomes a part of its hypervigilant immune system. The problem is, no one really benefits from this arrangement in the long run; but in the short run, the constant denial of reality keeps one in a state of blissful, willfully ignorant cognitive dissonance. To anyone not insane in the ways of our culture, anthropogenic climate change is the Sword of Damocles hanging over life itself, making everything we need to do to sustain life in modern civilization seem absurdly Sisyphisean.

And yet, the denial of reality serves a dual purpose - it allows one to sink into learned helplessness, and it allows one to avoid the existential crises that come with awakening to the fact they are utterly codependent and individually helpless (much like an abused child who ultimately conforms to its treacherous parents' whims, once it realizes they're the hand that feeds and it has nobody else). To illustrate, right now it is estimated some 60% of the world's population lives near a coastline, with nearly 2.4 billion people living and working within 100km, and some 634 million living only 10m above sea level. The majority of these individuals live in the mega-cities that themselves are the major arteries of modern civilization. These cities are neither sustainable nor self-sufficient, and depend on a fragile global logistics chain to continue functioning.

Imagine yourself to be a decently well-off middle class resident in one of these coastal regions, or cities. You have an advanced degree and a great white collar job - let's say you're a family practice physician at a small doctor's office and although you don't save much, you do make ends meet, have an alright social life, overall things don't seem too bad. You never struggle to put food on the table, you're relatively happy with your life, more or less. You feel "successful" in the eyes of your culture because of the two letters after your name, the size of your paycheck, the fact you "own" your property and a nice car from the last 5 years. You're the envy of your less fortunate friends and peers, who are struggling in the gig economy and paying $1100 for a bunk bed in a small room; they look at you and tell you, "you've made it, man!" - its a similar admiration you experience with the opposite sex, who perk up after you mention your career. So, things seem relatively stable in your life. Economic crises seem to come and go, the world seems to be getting scarier by the day but you don't notice much - sure, groceries are always getting more expensive and the packaged goods keep shrinking, sure, you keep seeing friends from your peer group drop off the map or appear in obituaries you scroll past on Facebook, regardless more and more of them are speaking openly of their "mental health" struggles, and sure, people seem to be driving a little crazier, more of your patients are uninsured or on Medicaid, and the weather seems to be more chaotic than ever. But for the most part, you get up in the morning, get dressed and drive to work like everyone else, and although you can't dismiss this tickle in the back of your mind that something isn't quite right, your life seems rewarding enough to keep the tickle repressed. You might get a surge of anxiety now and then - or maybe that's just another pothole on the slowly degrading, neglected highway you take to work, but eventually you forget it until the next time, and the next.

The point is, if you live in any measure of comfort like the above story, belief in the status quo IS your "self", it not only enables your life, it provides you a stable sense of identity and status. To consider climate change is to collapse that lens upon itself, reveal it as a dream, an illusion, and with it, everything you have come to see as fixed and rigid and sensible about your life, every answer you've ever had to those late night existential questions that keep you up. It is to awaken to the stark reality you are a helpless cog in a massive mechanism, who operates a machine you don't understand, that runs on a fuel you can't create yourself, to work a job that is only possible because of a global logistics chain, to shop at a grocery store full of food and drink from who knows where, made by who knows who, to return to your domicile in the evening powered by who knows what from who knows where - all you know is as long as you keep your bills paid, the lights will magically turn on, the food stays cold in your fridge, and you can veg out to the latest sitcom on Netflix after a long day at work. Besides, what could you really do about rising sea levels or a splitting polar vortex, individually?

If we return to the story, imagine yourself that person again - and you've brought up similar subjects with your friends, or your professional-class colleagues, but they tell you you're being a downer, so you eventually drop it, and maybe even begin doubt it's even real or that it matters at all. "The scientists will figure it out," you tell yourself, clutching the Bible that's actually a cellphone streaming the latest climate denial or techno-hopium to your eyes, as you drift off to a dreamless sleep. Anyway, you've got work in the morning and the clocks always ticking and the bills aren't gonna pay themselves.

It's far easier to accept the one reality that is farcical and mundane and be united with your atomized peers in that, to feel the power your status and money grants you, to do the steps of the dance of "normality" - than to stand completely alone in the other reality, in which you are a dependent child in an adult's body, subsisting in a world that is not only bewildering and complex beyond your imagination, but utterly terrifying and unpredictable beneath it all. In that reality there are no answers, only the fact that there doesn't seem to be a place for you in it, and your life is virtually unimaginable without the forms of modern civilization - the grocery stores, the gas stations, cars, two day shipping, fire and police departments. Most would sooner forget that is the world that is threatened and fading than imagine living in a world without it." -Stranger from the internet

 

[Efilismislife]

Suicide is forbidden only because and since religion prohibited it.
and because government and all the world systems need pawns and workers, soldiers to pay/fight for their needs

Most people love life? Or they just afraid of death and all the doctrine.

if people given a choice to exit this world painlessly without any consequences would they still prolong their fight in this world?

'Happiness' is only a temporary distraction. Pain both physical or emotional, natural disaster, aging, disease, deteriorating, dying is certain.

just like a deer 'happily' eating browse and later got eaten alive by a lion. Its not worth the pain.

"The pleasure i had yesterday isn't comforting my pain today"

You hit the nail in the head. Many in here suffer from the Cioran Bias, "I'm miserable therefore everyone is". Sorry but no, most people are not miserable, they love life. This is why suicide is so abhorrent to them.

 

[whatevs]

if people given a choice to exit this world painlessly without any consequences would they still prolong their fight in this world?

Of course that 99% would choose to remain alive. Efilism, antinatalism, pessimism, are extremely rare. People are alive because they want to be. Their fear of death is just another expression of their lust for existence.

 

[Efilismislife]

Most people especially in third world country dont even know about efilism or any philosophy or movement.
Yet many of them ctb not even knowing about efilism.
You dont need to know about philosophy to resent life. Even before efilism/antinatalism people already resent life naturally.

The number of efilist/antinatalist dont represent everybody who resent life.

Fear of death isnt a choice to anyone. People experience phobia or anxiety to things they dont want to fear. Otherwise would you say people with mental health choose to do so? Otherwise people dont need to take antidepressant to depress their anxiety if they can just choose what they feel.

Also people who want to ctb dont need to address SI.

people are alive because theyre being dragged into this world without their consent

If human can choose wether to be born or not it would be different

Of course that 99% would choose to remain alive. Efilism, antinatalism, pessimism, are extremely rare. People are alive because they want to be. Their fear of death is just another expression of their lust for existence.

 

[yive]

Suicide is forbidden only because and since religion prohibited it.
and because government and all the world systems need pawns and workers, soldiers to pay/fight for their needs

after all my philosophical research throughout my life, i came to the conclusion that ONLY efilism carries the truth. life is just unnecessary problems, risks, suffering. why is all this needed if the non-existent has no need for a "positive" experience? life is just about fixing the negatives, like inmendham said: "you never have a profit, you're just struggling to get back to zero". it is so fucking hard for people to understand that they are just ADDICTED to life, like heroin addicts, and that multiplying this addiction and suffering is DEFINITELY not something "good"

 

[whatevs]

during all my philosophical research throughout my life, i came to the conclusion that ONLY efilism carries the truth. life is just unnecessary problems, risks, suffering. why is all this needed if the non-existent has no need for a "positive" experience? life is just about fixing the negatives, like inmendham said: "you never have a profit, you're just struggling to get back to zero". it is so fucking hard for people to understand that they are just ADDICTED to life, like heroin addicts, and that multiplying this addiction and suffering is DEFINITELY not something "good"

I also envision the will to live like an addiction, it's a very apt analogy. But it's a foundational thing, because by default we all start valuing our life, so existence is the quintessential "goodness". It's a foundational addiction that everyone shares.

 

[Death_of_a_Phynixx]

I absolutely second that emotion! I hate religion with a passion! Mankind created religion because they lost faith within themselves eons ago. Religion is also big business, with every place of false worship functioning in the tax exempt category. The preachers and pastors are the pimps, and the congregation are the whores! Religion is slavery to fictional characters who never even existed to begin with! Humanity is highly delusional, blindly following their shepherds right into the slaughterhouse! If it were up to me and you, and people like us ( I know that there are more of us here in this realm), I would command that every building of blasphemous worship be leveled back down to the shit holes from whence it came. It's a shame that the population of delusional and blissfully ignorant humans is so abundant! They enjoy being lied to and deceived, and when we have all of this evidence to make them use their tiny fucking brains and to help them to think outside of the box, they call us evil and satanic. The beings whom have incarnated to this plane to help shift humanities consciousness back into its original and pure state, have become demonized! I feel I am one of these beautiful beings, sent on a mission to help free humanity from their delusions, but I no longer believe that humanity wants our assistance! The way I feel now, humanity can fucking rot in their ignorance for all I care!

 

[whatevs]

Most people especially in third world country dont even know about efilism or any philosophy or movement.
Yet many of them ctb not even knowing about efilism.
You dont need to know about philosophy to resent life. Even before efilism/antinatalism people already resent life naturally.

The number of efilist/antinatalist dont represent everybody who resent life.

Fear of death isnt a choice to anyone. People experience phobia or anxiety to things they dont want to fear. Otherwise would you say people with mental health choose to do so? Otherwise people dont need to take antidepressant to depress their anxiety if they can just choose what they feel.

Also people who want to ctb dont need to address SI.

people are alive because theyre being dragged into this world without their consent

If human can choose wether to be born or not it would be different

This idea that you are dragged here without your consent is very common, but wrong. You are here because you were an intent, a lust for life, and then materialized through sexual reproduction. Something doesn't come from nothing, and your birth came from the will to exist. As a kid, I guarantee that if I visibly threatened your life you would be scared and cry. Why? You wanted to be alive, which is why you were born. If you want now to stop being alive is an entirely different thing, but nobody dragged you here. Take accountability.

And you misunderstood me regarding philosophy. I didn't mean that you need to formally or explicitly know how your ideas are called to have them. Pessimistic people have always existed, and they make the bulk of suiciders. But here or in the third world, pessimists and people that loathe life are always a minority. And as I said, the reason people fear death isn't at all because of pain, but because their very essence consists of lust or appreciation for life. They exist in this form precisely because they are propelled, attracted to existing. Yes, they love life for sure.

I am a pessimist myself and feel at best ambivalent about life, but those ideas about being dragged involuntarily to life and most people being miserable are just false. They seem attractive for a lot of people for whatever reason.

 

[Rabhen]

There is No God, at least not in the way that religions portray. There is no final judgement Nor resurrection. I believe in the comic god, the creator and energy source. We came from that source and we return to it. We are god and extension of the universe. We have nothing to fear in death as it is guaranteed for everyone. Humankind is a failed species and is on the path to destruction anyways.

the God of Comicon? me thinks you mean, Cosmic God, rotflmao!!!!! I LOVE typos!

 

[Zzzzz]

This idea that you are dragged here without your consent is very common, but wrong. You are here because you were an intent, a lust for life, and then materialized through sexual reproduction. Something doesn't come from nothing, and your birth came from the will to exist. As a kid, I guarantee that if I visibly threatened your life you would be scared and cry. Why? You wanted to be alive, which is why you were born. If you want now to stop being alive is an entirely different thing, but nobody dragged you here. Take accountability.

And you misunderstood me regarding philosophy. I didn't mean that you need to formally or explicitly know how your ideas are called to have them. Pessimistic people have always existed, and they make the bulk of suiciders. But here or in the third world, pessimists and people that loathe life are always a minority. And as I said, the reason people fear death isn't at all because of pain, but because their very essence consists of lust or appreciation for life. They exist in this form precisely because they are propelled, attracted to existing. Yes, they love life for sure.

I am a pessimist myself and feel at best ambivalent about life, but those ideas about being dragged involuntarily to life and most people being miserable are just false. They seem attractive for a lot of people for whatever reason.

A baby doesn't choose to be born. It's born because it's parents fucked each other. There's no evidence of any choice happening at all on the babies part. I wouldn't say that most people are miserable, but if we were to ask people how they are, the majority would not say they are doing incredibly well. What do people say? How are you? Oh, I'm doing alright. Doing okay. Doing good. How often does someone say wow I'm doing just absolutely amazing? Very rarely. Isn't that what everyone wants? To feel amazing every day? Most people have a lot to complain about. Even if they love being alive. I think happiness is partly based on personal preference. I personally see nothing enviable about most people's lives.

 

[motel rooms]

This idea that you are dragged here without your consent is very common, but wrong. You are here because you were an intent, a lust for life, and then materialized through sexual reproduction. Something doesn't come from nothing, and your birth came from the will to exist. As a kid, I guarantee that if I visibly threatened your life you would be scared and cry. Why? You wanted to be alive, which is why you were born.

Is this prose poetry or philosophy?

 

[Antinous]

"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (quoted by Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion, p 28)

 

[angiegirl30]

Wow. How is it okay to bash someone's personal belief system on here? Not everyone believes that religion is irrational or delusional. Personally I believe in God and Jesus. But I don't go around trashing others beliefs which are different than mine own. For fucks sake, have some respect.

 

[Antinous]

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."

Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

 

[demuic]

This idea that you are dragged here without your consent is very common, but wrong. You are here because you were an intent, a lust for life, and then materialized through sexual reproduction. Something doesn't come from nothing, and your birth came from the will to exist. As a kid, I guarantee that if I visibly threatened your life you would be scared and cry. Why? You wanted to be alive, which is why you were born. If you want now to stop being alive is an entirely different thing, but nobody dragged you here. Take accountability.

Is this a joke?

 

[Mr2005]

I don't think Armageddon is what people normally pray for

 

[settheory]

1. Allegation: "When you try an infinite number of times something that IS possible, but is very unlikely to happen, eventually it happens, which to someone that does not take into account the infinite number of trials would seem like the product of intent or intelligent design".

Notice how I uppercased "is" in the allegation. This is crucial, because in your first argument it is implicitly assumed that the event that we are arguing about (the emergence of life) is something that can happen randomly when tried enough times (10 billion years x seconds in every year = 435 quadrillion times assuming each second it was tried). But herein lies the fallacy, which I served to you in a silver plate, admittedly: it's very easy, and would take much less than a quadrillion times, to get stuff stacked, but not to get stuff that is stacked and from that point on can stack more stuff on it's own, and with each generation devise much more functions than stacking. So you are right in dismantling my analogy, it just so happens that life is a very different type of event than a simple unlikely, static happenstance like things getting piled up. Life is a dynamic, self-perpetuating, self-perfecting event. We don't know anything like it.

"life is a very different type of event than a simple unlikely, static happenstance like things getting piled up. Life is a dynamic, self-perpetuating, self-perfecting event."
Not relevant to how that law applies or does not apply to life. Also, life on Earth is perpetuated by the Sun.
"We don't know anything like it."
False.

2. Allegation: "You either believe in something, or think it is real or you don't. There are no nuances in terms of knowledge or belief".

This is illogical. Knowledge and belief are quite probabilistic in terms of how we invest in them. Many things we do are based in things we think are possible, but might not exist or happen at all.
But this takes us to a fallacy you fall into, a strawman.

Just a different definition of belief.

3. Allegation: "You are arguing for the existence of God and believing in such God in blind faith".

Not quite, no. I am arguing for the possibility of intent or design (or just a "supernatural" origin) behind the beginning of life, a kind of event that seems to have only happened once and that we cannot repeat or understand. The idea of an anthropomorphic God is infantile. Now, you cant prove that life came about by coincidence, because you cannot prove your idea that trying enough times the inert elements in the Universe would become alive. We haven't seen this, we can't reproduce it. I argue that your idea that life came about by chance is also infalsifiable, just as the idea of God (particularly in the usual terms) seems to be infalsifiable scientifically.

The more there we have samples from a population of things, the more it is likely for that collection of samples to have at least one thing with a certain property. Any probability of at least one sample having a property can be obtained with a large enough amount of samples, now matter how small the probability of that property is, given it is >0. Provable mathematically.

Law of truly large numbers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Efilismislife]

This idea that you are dragged here without your consent is very common, but wrong. You are here because you were an intent, a lust for life, and then materialized through sexual reproduction. Something doesn't come from nothing, and your birth came from the will to exist.

And you know all this is a fact based on what evidence??

As a kid, I guarantee that if I visibly threatened your life you would be scared and cry. Why? You wanted to be alive, which is why you were born. If you want now to stop being alive is an entirely different thing, but nobody dragged you here. Take accountability.

no. not just kid, even adult feel scared just for trivial thing like when theyre gonna get punctured with a small needle for injection/blood draw or whatever, not because their life gonna taken away by a small needle but because of the pain.


Nobody given a choice to be born or exit painlessly. Its entirely a one sided forceful act by breeders

Pessimistic people have always existed, and they make the bulk of suiciders. But here or in the third world, pessimists and people that loathe life are always a minority. And as I said, the reason people fear death isn't at all because of pain, but because their very essence consists of lust or appreciation for life. They exist in this form precisely because they are propelled, attracted to existing. Yes, they love life for sure.

how do you judge&generalize all suicidal people are pessimistic?
there are people who suffering and living a horrible life thats not worth living and why do you demean them for wanting to exit such a hell?
people with incurable illness or very poor with many pressures, aging old age disabled, etc, etc.

Based on your assumptions then, people who are poor and have to do hard,labour work everyday no matter how broken they are is happy to work until they die? because they keep doing so. Same as people who have chronic disease keep paying for the doctors bill, medicine, keep getting stabbed by countless needle injection, getting tortured, etc etc and theyre happy with that?

no its because they dont have a choice