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DeIetedUser4739

Guest
Apr 21, 2024
428
I found this table in an old thread and found it quite informative so thought I'd repost it.


Death
.
Official"SN Poisoning"
  • Easily detectable, nothing more to it.
How does it work exactly?
  • Blood cells do not carry oxygen, though lungs continue to supply it, and brain is still working.
  • Cells in body turn to anaerobic metabolism for a while and eventually die , after couple of hours .
  • SN also causes blood cell destruction, plus circulatory disorder (blood cannot flow to tissue).
What's the medical state?The body can be described as suffering:
  • hemolytic anemia, "blood failure", or
  • anemic hypoxia, "blood fails to deliver oxygen".
Tissue slowly dies, but not due to lack of oxygen in cells (like cyanide) or lungs (like suffocation), rather due to 'bad blood' . It shares similarities with CO2 poisoning .
Is it like suffocation?No.
  • Suffocation (hypoxic hypoxia) is a stressful experience, involving reflexes, pain, and rapid damage within minutes.
  • SN does not deprive oxygen from you body, but to individual cells within your body.
Will my brain continue to function?Yes.
  • Brain continues to function, even with 30% oxygen level. SN is a gradual slow process.
Will I feel death?No, if regime followed.
  • With low oxygen levels you faint and lose consciousness.
  • Brain goes into "sleep mode" – everything keeps working, but you fall asleep.
Can it be disguised as accident?Never .
  • Your face turns blue and your blood turns dark -- that's visible .
  • It cannot be disguised as hypothermia or suffocation
Can I donate organs?Never.
  • Suspicion of either suicide or poisoning forbids that.
  • Autopsy and inquest required , cannot harvest organs (even if permitted) .
Do you "fall asleep" due to hypoxia or sedatives?Either or both.
  • SN: faint around 13m , unconsciousness around 20m.
  • Benzo: taking several can knock out , in 15m-30m
  • So either / both
    • You may time to be asleep when SN affects
.
Recovery
.
SN fatal even in small dosages?YES. DO NOT TRY OR TASTE IT.
Can I recover?YES – with HOSPITAL CARE.
Can I recover on my own?NO.
What happens in recovery/hospital?
  • Methylene Blue is an antidote.
  • Minute dosage of it increases oxygen from fatal 20% to healthy 90% within 30-60m.
  • Patients regain consciousness within 2-8 hours; dissmissed after 1-3 days; unless kept for psychiatric evaluation.
  • Hospitals sometime follow further procedures, but these were not found to be crucial just supportive, may hasten recovery: Oxygen therapy, Ascorbic acid (MetHb elimination), Cimetidine (reduces hematotoxins).
Can I be rescued?YES.
  • Usually within 1-2 hours.
  • Sometimes up to 3-4h after ingestion.
Will I have permanent damage?NO – You either die or recover
  • Plethora of SN poisoning cases with no medical evidence of damage.
  • Probably due to mode of action – slow cell/tissue death until total collapse. In the meantime everything is working.
If only small amount digested can I recover alone?NO . This is extremely rare .
Will I have permanent damage if SN taken without medical intervention?
No.
  • You will not have permanent damage. But you won't survive – scenario very unlikely – without rescue 99% fatal.
Why SN does not cause brain damage?
  • Hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen, kills brain cells in 4 minutes).
  • Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link
  • Possible temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) – spontanously healed after few days [1]
Chances of coma / becoming vegetable?Currently 0% , as far as we know:
  • Out of thousands poisoning cases throughout centuries – there are no such documented cases. [1] [2]
  • "The Chinese Case" is not documented , we don't know patient background , and family claims malpractice . The child is not vegetative but brain dead (no chances of waking up). It is not a good case to study . [1]
Storage
.

PrimerSN acts much like table salt (NaCl).
  • Hygroscopic – absorbs water .
  • Does not reactwith water but dissolves to ions , suspended between H20 molecules .
    • Google "reactions vs ionic solution" .
  • Dissolves readily up to 40% (see graph)
  • Should not be heated . Combustible .
Solid
Can I open and close bottle?YES. Unless you're in a sauna ..
  • It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent)
  • Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't.
  • Clamps are fine
  • Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled .
  • SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion.
  • That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .
Refrigerate?No.
  • SN is not reactive (only to moisture, heat, strong acid/base)
  • In industry kept at room temperature for years – simple plastic container
  • Refrigerators have moisture – don't overdo [1]
Extreme weather for transport/storage problem?No.
  • SN is transported in all climates without any heating/cooling.
  • SN is simply not reactive – only to moisture, acid, extreme heat, etc
Solution (liquid)
Will it go bad quickly?NO. Only after few hours.
  • Strong solutions (40%) are potent and durable . Weaker solutions will slightly react to create nitrates (aquarium) .
  • Labs store 40% solution in room temperature, open and close it, so some oxygen is fine.
  • Pure 100%, required in delicate biochem tests (DNA), must be prepared freshly ; but 99% is fine for us .
  • Labs use purified water and under sterile condition.
How long is it potent?At least several hours, if not more.
  • It has nothing to react with – but minute minerals, dirt, etc in drinking water .
Should I refrigerate?No.
  • While labs store 40% solution, our water is "dirty", and we lack sterile environment.
  • Cooling should not cause SN to change behaviour , but don't .
    • See saturation/temperature graph (OP)
Should I use heated water?No.
  • SN , like salt , readily dissolves in room temperature water . Stir it .
  • Heating will cause SN to change behaviour – don't.
Summary
  • Water Solution
Few Hours
  • Packed Air-Tight
Few YearsClumps, temporary exposure to air , are okay
  • Air
Few WeeksWill lose potency slowly, due to humidity (H2O) not oxygen


SN Intake
.
Common symptoms?
  • Stan's Guide
  • Success/failure stories – provide full testimonies
It's individual. Each member mentioned something else -- that another wasn't worried about.
"Pain"?Issue are NOT painful, but bad sensory/mental experience for many
Burning throatSome report mild painful – most haven't
Fast heart rateSome report 200bpm – like strenuous sprinting but while sitting down – can be scary.
  • Can induce anxiety – see Benzo, Beta-Blockers.
  • Again others were not that bothered.
Taste
TasteSN tastes like salt [1] . In high concentration that is disgusting .
  • Some report bad taste – others didn't care.
  • Taste rarely causes vomiting itself
  • Amitryptyline > N > SN (least horrible)
  • Discomfort documented [1][2] – taste complaints "very disgusting" (few felt nothing)
Salt trialThis is not a recommended practice. If very worried – may test with regular kitchen salt. It is not required.
  • Members tried [1] [2] [3]
  • Mostly safe but careful , research
  • Some reported SN taste – don't try! – see above threads .
How to take SNQuick shot to back of throat – best practice.
  • Don't sip [1]
  • Straw (direct to throat) was suggested , some used – too slow sucking SN?
Discussed dozens times, search threads.
Aftertaste
  • Something strong to overcome taste
  • Without much calories , acidity , irritation
  • Avoid ingestion – at least 10 minutes to allow SN intake [1]
Aftertaste – Tips
  • Suck ice cube before/after – reduce taste, soothes (see here)
  • Drink 50ml ice water – refreshing (don't drink much)
  • Gargle mouthwash (or water)
  • Suck on:
    • Chocolate tablet
    • Mint
    • Bit honey , jam
    • Anything that won't be ingested / irritate stomach
Vomiting
Vomiting
  • SN fatal even if vomited
  • 50ml on empty stomach (very little) – no prolonged / severe / violent vomitin
Servings / Vomiting practiceStan's Practice – 3 Servings
  • If vomit before fainting – drink next serving
  • Don't force drink #2 – body already absorbed SN
  • Following Stan practice, example:
ServingServingWhat happenedDrankVomitedAbsorbed
#120gDrank all & vomited a lot20g15g5g
#220gPartially drank serving & vomited some14g7g7g
#320gNever used
Total SN
12g
(fatal)
  • If vomit within 10m – may take more SN
  • Fainting around 12m indicates fatality – sufficient SN absorption (no need for more)
PPH practice , vomitingPPH Practice - 1 Big Serving

ServingSizeWhat happenedDrankVomitedAbsorbed
#125gVomited25g15g10g
Total SN
10g
(fatal)
  • If vomit within 10m – still fatal – no need for more SN
Dosage
PPH / StanTo absorb more SN despite possible vomit -- two strategies emerged:
  • PPH increased dose through the years: 15g –> 20g –> 25g
  • Stan's multiple serving – if vomit take more, 3 x 20g
Notes:
  • How many actually drank several servings? Unconfirmed [1]
  • Too much SN may cause instant vomiting? Unconfirmed
Dosage
  • PPH = 1 x 25g
  • Stan = 3 x 20g
Over 100kg
  • PPH = 1x 35g
  • Stan = 3x 25g
Under 60kg *This had been suggested by some , but not confirmed.
  • PPH = 1x 20g
  • Stan = 3x 15g
* We have no evidence that special practice is required . PPH addresses old fragile people , many underweight .
Table per weight?Not required .
  • jgm63 table is mathematical/theoretical and may complicate preparation [1] .
  • We have no info on those dosages , may use at own discretion .
Warnings
Double dose?DON'T.
  • Double dose may do the opposite (vomiting all instead of some), though we don't know and PPH have doubled the dose through the years.
Routes of administration?DON'T. Search threads.
  • Enema – strong salts burn and literally destroy membranes . (example , more)
  • Capsules – need quick SN and in intestines -- capsules interfere , not practical (details , absorption)
  • IV / Injection -- Vein will collapse , SN won't enter blood (destroy membranes) [1] ; not practical [2] [3]
AlcoholDON'T. Search threads.

100ml alcohol changes everything
  • Stomach acidity, metabolism, and absorption (even 3h after drink)
  • Vomit more and/or violently
  • Opposite effects -- increase anxiety/headache
Recommendation is to barely drink water for max SN absorption, additions are counter productive, don't mix poisons.
Weed / Marijuana / MDMADON'T. Search threads.

  • Weed not strong antiemetic
  • Psychoactive effects while ctb – hazardous
    • Intensify feeling – panic & survival instinct
    • Freak out , unpredictable
    • Combining 2 extreme experiences in one
  • Example , example , example , and plenty more
Can I drink after SN?NO.
  • Read members testimonies.
  • Your stomach will be in turmoil , interacting with SN , with chances of vomiting -- adding more to the mix is bad. [1]
Suggested aftertaste solutions, and small gulp of water, would do little harm.
~



Fasting
.
Timeline
  • 5h before SN– light meal – start fasting.
    • Individual , may consider 4h or 6h
    • Avoid alcohol
  • Next 3 hours– water, non-acidic juices – moderation (glass or two)
    • Avoid acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks.
    • See snack options
  • Next hour – Only water.
    • Drink freely , that is few glasses (not litres) [1]
  • Next hour – complete fast (no drinking)
  • After SN– may have a small chocolate tablet or mint etc for taste
    • Don't overdo – may cause nausea
Example and discussion
Timeline (brief)
00:00Light meal , start fasting
Water ok
Some snacks , light juices
03:00Only water
04:00Stop water
05:00SN Intake
JuicesJuices/shakes made with either carrot, aloe, cabbage, beet, watermelon, spinach, cucumber, pear, etc
  • You know your stomach better.
SnacksFruit & veg – simple non-acidic, small amount.
Candy – simple sugars, no fat, up to 100 calories
  • Apples are acidic and fiberous (long travel in intestines) but 1 small apple 4h before SN could be ok – you know your stomach.
Acidic, carbonated, caffeinated, fatty drinks?Avoid.
  • If must have – 3h before SN intake (at most 2h)
  • Not recommended
Original PPH timeline (strict)
  • 8h before intake – light meal , start fasting
  • Next 6 hours: Some water.
    • If must drink – small amounts of non-acidic juices
  • Next 2 hours: Complete fast – no drinking
Why did it change?
  • Quick gastric emptying for fluids and simple sugars
  • pH returns to normal 1h after emptying
  • Intestines partially empty – is sufficient for SN absorption
See detailed version with data

 
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D

DeIetedUser4739

Guest
Apr 21, 2024
428
thank you for reading my mind and then creating this post specifically for me. just one question. i've read that grapefruit juice can increase the absorption of some (though not all) medications. For instance: https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/grapefruit-juice-and-some-drugs-dont-mix "https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/grapefruit-juice-and-some-drugs-dont-mix." I wonder if it would work here.
I've read on a SN megathread where it failed because they mixed it with orange juice, I'll try to find it.
 
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cowboypants

cowboypants

Experienced
May 7, 2024
263
I came across a study yesterday where they had successfully transplanter liver of someone who died by SN. But the person had called the ambulance after ingestion. So don't know how this affects things. Seems to be an experimental case

 
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Goku Black

Goku Black

Global Mod
Jun 5, 2023
3,303
I always found Quarky00s posts on sn very valuable
 
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R

rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,264
I understand you can be rescued if found within an hour but 2hrs and beyond that? I don't see how.....
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
10,026
I understand you can be rescued if found within an hour but 2hrs and beyond that? I don't see how.....
I would say don't under estimate with how low amount of oxygen in the blood a body can keep up the most basic functions to survive. Sure, many personal factors and circumstances play a role here and especially whether the protocol was followed as best as possible or not.
 
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blackwave

Member
May 9, 2024
21
Thanks for sharing, is really precious
 
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rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,264
I would say don't under estimate with how low amount of oxygen in the blood a body can keep up the most basic functions to survive. Sure, many personal factors and circumstances play a role here and especially whether the protocol was followed as best as possible or not.
That is true, how the protocol is followed is very essential, but after reading of cases that didn't make it even calling for help right after ingesting it, it makes you wonder if you have too much of a time window to be saved, let alone hours.
 
P

Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
10,026
That is true, how the protocol is followed is very essential, but after reading of cases that didn't make it even calling for help right after ingesting it, it makes you wonder if you have too much of a time window to be saved, let alone hours.
I'm wondering about that myself either but I don't think there is any accurate and official data available.
 
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Begotten

Begotten

Member
May 8, 2024
62
Do we make much noises after lose consciousness by SN ?
 
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Onelegman

Onelegman

I use a translator
May 24, 2024
553
Do we make much noises after lose consciousness by SN ?

Who knows...
What I can confirm is that when the body dies it produces a death rattle. Recently a familiar died in his sleep (a big blessing) and his wife knew about it immediately because she heard how he forcibly let out all his air (that's how she described it) and on another occasion, a person who recorded his shot with a shotgun in the It happened to him too... the sound in that video was quite terrifying to hear, it's the body losing all tension and releasing the air I guess...
 
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cowboypants

cowboypants

Experienced
May 7, 2024
263
That is true, how the protocol is followed is very essential, but after reading of cases that didn't make it even calling for help right after ingesting it, it makes you wonder if you have too much of a time window to be saved, let alone hours.
3 hours was the max reported in a study that compiled many SN cases
 
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cowboypants

cowboypants

Experienced
May 7, 2024
263

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rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,264
Don't remember the study but this could be it...attached image below
Unfortunately the paper is not publicly accessible. Are you referring to the 3hr shown on the screenshot or?
 
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doctordetritus

Member
Jan 5, 2024
13
Unfortunately the paper is not publicly accessible. Are you referring to the 3hr shown on the screenshot or?
looks like there is another link that provides more information on the same topic:

1718340547580
 
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rozeske

Maybe I am the problem
Dec 2, 2023
3,264
looks like there is another link that provides more information on the same topic:

View attachment 142634
Yes, I saw that one, it gives a bit more info but not all. It indicates though death from SN poisoning and the toxicology and autopsy reports, nothing about a case of being rescued 3hrs after ingesting. I was curious if the case existed and if so how much SN they consumed.
 
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