Trying to work out shit about methods -- what I want vs. what is

[GoodPersonEffed]

Another journal-style post, trying to process and make decisions.

In the past I tried partial and it didn't work or I would already be gone. No goodbye threads, no self-ban, no dealing with current shit, it would have all just been over already. But that didn't happen, so some things are unnecessarily a bigger deal to me now than they were then because I'm still alive, and still trying to figure out the most peaceful method.

I really need peaceful. Yup, I'm a strong person, a self-aware person, and I'm self-aware enough to know that SN is going to be torturous for me. I've experienced some of the symptoms, and for me, they are distressing. I have asthma and I'm going to have problems breathing. I know this because I tested my SN for purity and didn't bleed enough for drops, so I put a bit of SN on the open wound, and in 5-10 minutes, I felt it go up my arm and down into my chest, and my breathing got a little restricted. I know I will have other symptoms as well, I did some testing with sea salt water. It will not be a peaceful method for me, it could be up to an hour of symptoms that make me feel weak and scared and stressed and out of control. However, if shit gets bad enough, I have the capacity to flip my attitude and tough it out because I know it will be less than an hour, and I have 14g of propanolol and 1g of amlopidine, so theoretically, I can do a dual OD. I don't take propanolol because it also triggers asthma, but as a potentiator for SN, just at 1-2g, the idea is that one will lose consciousness even faster.

I have a ReBreather. I've had it for a couple of weeks. I'm not confident in it. I live in a very humid environment, so when I open the package to start testing the face masks and the seals, I will need to move fast, less than the three days recommended, and that pisses me off. It is a highly desirable method to me in that one can actually get high and euphoric on the way out, and a peaceful death can happen in less than 15 minutes. But only one person has ever reported trying it, and it was a dud. My bigger fear is that, if it fails, I will have brain damage. I do not have a family that loves me and supports me so that I would be cared for in a safe way, they'd either abandon me as a ward of their state, or make it about them and not me and god knows what that would look like, probably good care but I'd hate to regain consciousness and not have the mental or physical capacity to clearly think and say, "Fuck off." It scares the hell out of me. I think, however, this may be an overblown fear. From what I understand according to the maker of the ReBreather, if one is not interrupted and the mask comes off, either they will breathe normally and therefore fully recover, or if respiration has already stopped, then the process will continue to kill them. Only interruption and resuscitation after it's stopped would mean brain damage, and the chances are slim to none that I'll be interrupted. Anyhow, it's not an impulse thing like my partial attempts; once I open the package, it's for real. I have to commit or give up on the method, or wait until it's released again, spend more money, continue suffering while I wait, etc.

I could hedge my bets with the ReBreather and swallow SN before using it, hoping it will make me pass out and die before the SN kicks in, and guaranteeing I'll die if it doesn't work. Again no comfort of impulse here, in fact even less. Or I could have the SN ready to mix and if I regain consciousness and am worried I have any brain damage, I could mix and drink the SN and be done.

Finally, I still have the option of CO. I had a plan, but it's not practical. So I'm thinking I can buy more chimney starters and put several in the bathroom. But it's not going to be comfortable. I really, really wanted to be comfortable and lie in bed. It's the peacefulness I seek. I don't know, it's a large bedroom, maybe I could get a whole bunch of chimney starters and metal pans or disposable barbecues and spread them around the bed. I have the money. I would just have to work out the plan. And again, if I came to, I could have back up SN ready to mix and drink. Also, it will take a couple of hours to prep, and that's stressful, so I'll have to be in the frame of mind of being committed, not at all impulsive.

I know no one can encourage me or figure things out for me. I just don't know how else to process this. I think I'm making it harder than it is. And for all my reliance on Stoicism for a rational suicide, I think I may need a bit of impulse to help. What I really want is for the ReBreather to work or to have been definitively proven to not work. But, hey, want in one hand and shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

Frustrated sigh.

Thanks for reading. Once again, I am feeling vulnerable, so please keep that in consideration if you care to comment. No infographics, please. If you think my SN method is too complicated and you feel compelled to talk about that, please criticize constructively, but really, I'm not interested in a critique, I just needed to drop my shit about it here, I've already done lots of planning and research about both SN and straight propanolol/calcium channel blocker ODs. I'm much more concerned about the overall SN symptoms, for me it will not be peaceful without a total shift in how I'm approaching ctb. I'm not ready to be that badass yet. Life is already requiring too much fucking badassery of me as it is.




TL;DR:

SN guaranteed to work but I will suffer, however, I will suffer much less if I do a total attitude shift in how I approach it. Still, I'm already 100% certain I will have breathing difficulties.

Much prefer peace. Have a ReBreather, but the method is not tested, may be a dud product, conceivably may end up brain damaged but I think that may be anxiety speaking. CO is iffy, and I will need to buy a lot more supplies if I want the comfort of my bed, which indeed I do. Also the long time to prep is stressful to me even as the method itself is peaceful.

Please recognize and respect that I'm vulnerable, and keep comments and criticisms supportive and constructive.

 

[shipwreck]

As a newcomer I don't have much to offer as far as technical matters are concerned. Others are far more knowledgeable than I.

I'm very sad that you've reached the point where you're ready to go and working out the technical details. Part of me feels that if we put as much energy and creativity into dealing with our problems in life as we put into coming up with ways to ctb, then we wouldn't have a reason to ctb! But I know nothing about your experience and situation, you've clearly thought it through carefully and I would never presume to tell you what you should do.

Your thoughtful responses to people on this forum demonstrate the sort of person you are and your capacity for to help others. You have real value in the world, more so than many others who are more fortunate, if one is entitled to make such judgments.

I can only express the hope, coming from a position of respect and appreciation, that you'll stick around and share the journey with us for a bit longer.

 

[Sadkitty]

I absolutely feel you. SN and exit bag. I keep going back and forth. I have most everything for SN so I think I'll go that way. It's hard to decide when so much is unknown. People say people who commit suicide are cowards. They have no idea how hard of a decision this is. How incredibly painful it is to follow through with.
I hope you and all of us, can figure this out and have a peaceful, painless exit.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I hear you, and I too share your frustrations with all of this.

I would not trust the rebreather until enough people who ctb are discovered with this device on their faces. The rebreather sounds like a trendy, ineffective means.

The chemical means, in particular N is still a somewhat elaborated process to properly consume. SN is apparently so as well, but I have limited knowledge to this other than KCN which is certain to work but according to most speculations, it's painful.

Hanging seems to be the go to method for many, from celebrities to underage ctb's (underage ctb's are especially tragic) who probably do not think too much on the method—they just do it. I guess when someone is in a really bad place one does not hesitate. But the thought of failure and ending up paralyzed, and / or disfigured and unable to attempt self deliverance again is disconcerting to say the least.

 

[Jumper Geo]

I tried partial hanging in the past, I lost interest in it, I looked at different methods but I find myself drawn to SN, I have been reading the latest pph and listening to the podcasts and they do seem to be reporting more cases of SN and there is a difference in the time they lose consciousness like 5 minutes and 12 minutes so I will be waiting to hear there latest news in the next few months, maybe PH was correct in saying taking 1 or 2 g's of propanolol mixed with the SN may be a good idea although I read it take minimum of 30 minutes for it to start working but you can reduce that in liquid form.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

maybe PH was correct in saying taking 1 or 2 g's of propanolol mixed with the SN may be a good idea although I read it take minimum of 30 minutes for it to start working but you can reduce that in liquid form.

PN recommends dissolving it and mixing it with the SN. When you read 30 min, do you mean taking the pills whole?

 

[Jumper Geo]

PN recommends dissolving it and mixing it with the SN. When you read 30 min, do you mean taking the pills whole?

Yes I wasn't going to follow PH as it seemed overkill I was going to take 120mg one hour before but the reports hes had back sound promising so I will dissolve 1 gram in water and wait until I am really tired and bomb 25 grams of SN in a Rizla, I have one box of propanolol 28 X 40mg, I want N but I'm not getting it from A or C to risky I have a few local connections but it's not going the way I want it to so may have to go with SN and the meds.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

the reports hes had back sound promising so I will dissolve 1 gram in water and wait until I am really tired and bomb 25 grams of SN in a Rizla

Do you have the source for where he talks about the reports he's had back? What sounded promising? Can you summarize?

Also, what inspired you drink the dissolved propanolol and then take the SN when you are really tired? That's technically an OD of propanolol, so what leads you to believe you'll only be tired, and will be capable of taking the SN?

 

[LMLN]

I'm so sorry you are in this place, as I am for all of us. :( I too have the rebreather, and am worried about the quality of the mask/sealing. But I worry if I combine SN with the rebreather, I will vomit and have the mask on...I'm thinking SN only, but know there will be suffering. Idk, my hope from reading the experiences of others with SN, is that I will not experience as much suffering once I pass out. It sounds like survivors remember nothing but some stomach/throat burning.
Sorry I cannot help more...I'm sorry you are struggling with this. If only we could all get N...

 

[InTheAirTonight]

Do you have the source for where he talks about the reports he's had back? What sounded promising? Can you summarize?

He's referring to the new doxit podcast "lethal salts part II". I didn't really see anything promising from that podcast. They have a sound clip of one elderly man talking about his wife's SN death. It seemed really...off.

 

[Soul]

@GoodPersonEffed, your concerns are shared by most people pondering non-impulsive suicide. I didn't even get the news item about propanolol (I'll research it) but have put a lot of faith in SN plus some antique xanax I found to take the edge off. Can you add something like that to put you to sleep for the hard parts?

I'd rather use an inert gas method but can't, for reasons elaborated on elsewhere. Regarding your thoughts about the charcoal method: That one seems strangely difficult to get right. In a large bedroom, I'd suggest setting up a tent rather than trying to generate enough co for the whole room. If you cushion the interior it could be *almost* as comfortable as a bed.

I trust you'll decide on the best way for you.

 

[Epsilon0]

I read your entire post and although I have no constructive criticism. I simply wanted to say I understand the part about wanting to be comfortable and lying in bed. When I did my attempt, comfort was crucial to me. I felt I had lived with pain for such a long time, I could not stand any physical discomfort right at the end.

 

[Jumper Geo]

Do you have the source for where he talks about the reports he's had back? What sounded promising? Can you summarize?

Also, what inspired you drink the dissolved propanolol and then take the SN when you are really tired? That's technically an OD of propanolol, so what leads you to believe you'll only be tired, and will be capable of taking the SN?

I think the propanolol is the key to reducing the amount of time it takes to become unconscious as you can see from the first page it took 12 minutes, the reports from SS members who usually follow Stan's guide use a Antiemetic, Antacid, Pain Killer and SN and it takes longer to become unconscious.

I am waiting for two scientists to get back to me with confirmation but I think I have found one answer below, if I need to take 1 gram of propanolol dissolved with the SN or stick to my original plan of taking 3 X 40mg one hour prior to taking the SN, plus what is the advantage of dissolving propanolol mixed with the SN, will the effects be immediate or how long will it will take to be effective and will there be any long term damage, if by chance you are resuscitated and saved.

I have read about propanolol and the main two factors I believe it prevents, are getting a fast heart rate tachycardia, the other one is listed on the pages below. I don't think it knocks you out immediately so I don't think you have to mix it with SN to get the benefits, I think the benefits are the two I listed above. The case for this women she was able to explain to the medical staff what she took after 1 hour of taking 2.8 grams of propanolol, so by itself it's very slow acting, so I will have plenty of time taking it and then taking the SN.

Propanolol Overdose

aka Toxicology Conundrum 044 A 27-year old female weighing 60kg presents to ED approximately one hour after swallowing 70 x 40mg propranolol tablets (= 2.8 grams) with suicidal intent. At the time of assessment she is drowsy (GCS 13) with a heart rate of 46 bpm and BP 100/60. Fifteen minutes...

litfl.com

Here is a link to the pph pod casts, 4 and 5 are the best and they have reports back from members who said it was quick but there was no mention of propanolol but as members you can believe they followed PN's advice and recommendations. PN has also given phones to members to record there events so it will be interesting to hear the future reports as they will witness them from start to finish.

.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I think the propanolol is the key to reducing the amount of time it takes to become unconscious as you can see from the first page it took 12 minutes, the reports from SS members who usually follow Stan's guide use a Antiemetic, Antacid, Pain Killer and SN and it takes longer to become unconscious.

Thanks for the thorough response. Seeing the report of the propanolol OD, I understand now why you feel confident in waiting to take the SN, as it seems that the tablets do release slowly when taken whole.

However, I don't follow your logic in comparing one reported experience following PN's protocol to the experiences with Stan's. Here's why:

1. The only significant difference between the PPH and Stan's guide is the pain killer. Both recommend antiemetic and antacid (cimetidine).

2. The example in the PPH of 12 minutes is only one case. SS members have reported variation in the amount of time it took to lose consciousness, that's several cases, and some of them were at least as quick, were they not? I haven't read the anecdotes in a while. By comparison, how long did the people report in the Exit podcasts? Also, you witnessed an SN death that, I believe, followed Stan's guide, and I thought you reported it was quick and peaceful, can you elaborate as to how long it took for her to lose consciousness?

 

[Jumper Geo]

He said there had been numerous accounts reported from members but there was one in the pod cast which says it could have been 5 minutes to lose conscience but wasn't timed and 30 mintes to death, but we won't have conclusive proof until PN reports from the phones he's given members the only difference from Stan's guide and PPH is that the PPH is recommending to take propanolol but lets see what the scientists say if they respond back to me I have been waiting 6 hours for a reply but they are busy, I will let you know what they say.

The quickest and most peaceful I have heard of using the SN method was LostnotFound, she ctb in about 16 minutes and she never suffered any adversed effects a part from feeling cold and becoming dizzy and then we lost contact, her meds are listed on the link below, Jean4 done a tribute to her. I suppose if it is possible to reduce the time to become unconscious that is what we need to aim for so lets see what happens in the future I'm in no rush to ctb.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-windowsill.34521/

 

[enjolras]

Where we're at with my partner in crime, in order to improve SN with the goal in mind to not live through the symptoms :
- use gelatine capsules to delay the release, possibly for at least 15 minutes (largest size 000, about 18, to achieve hopefully relatively even delivery)
- take the powerful fast-acting Midazolam benzo for sedation (more so than proper anesthesia), around the same moment or slightly before, orally, or even as enema (liquid) + IM





In theoryland, it's bound to work ! ;) It just needs practice / first hand volunteers. Same old story.
I hope to receive Midazolam in a matter of days and test it on myself to derive first impressions.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@enjolras, I will be interested to hear your impressions of midazolam. For myself, I rejected it because it can cause dissociative amnesia of events while under its influence. I could wake up and not recollect what happened, and I personally want as much control over my experience as possible.

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Off-topic, maybe it's not helpful, but what would happen if one took SN and used an oxygen mask? Would SN damage the heart but not cause respiratory distress? Or would it ensure survival?

I apologize in advance if my comment is not useful.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Off-topic, maybe it's not helpful, but what would happen if one took SN and used an oxygen mask? Would SN damage the heart but not cause respiratory distress? Or would it ensure survival?

I apologize in advance if my comment is not useful.

That's a great question, maybe some potential to derail, we'll see how it plays out. :) If it's a serious question, I would recommend making a thread about it.

Thinking it through:

The action of the SN is methemoglobinemia: "a blood disorder in which an abnormal amount of methemoglobin is produced. Hemoglobin is the protein in red blood cells (RBCs) that carries and distributes oxygen to the body. Methemoglobin is a form of hemoglobin."

The treatment is methylene blue and oxygen therapy.

I could see an oxygen mask reducing distress, and maybe prolonging the process because more oxygen is being introduced into the body.

I have no medical training, so my response is analytical and tries to employ logic. It's not anything to rely on for others, it only applies to what I would decide for myself -- I would not use an oxygen mask, I would commit to the discomfort and not seek to alleviate it in this way. I think it may potentially create the following risks: 1) risk of prolonging death, and 2) risk or weakening the effectiveness of the SN to the point I could possibly survive the attempt, even without being interrupted and saved.

 

[Notabadguy]

Off-topic, maybe it's not helpful, but what would happen if one took SN and used an oxygen mask? Would SN damage the heart but not cause respiratory distress? Or would it ensure survival?

I apologize in advance if my comment is not useful.

Why do you say that SN damages the heart?

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Why do you say that SN damages the heart?

Okay so my rationale is the following:
The heart's role is to convert oxygen-deprived blood into oxygen-rich blood, and pump it out to the organs, with oxygen reaching the cells, tissue etc. SN deprives the cells of oxygen. At some point the heart cannot pump enough blood to counteract the lack of oxygen in the cells, and the heart stops. If this could happen without respiratory distress, by using an oxygen mask, then that would be ideal. @GoodPersonEffed is right though that it will prolong the process or make it less likely to be effective... But I'm still wondering if SN can be made to affect only the heart without causing respiratory distress.

 

[Notabadguy]

I wouldn't invest time and energy in research about that. How does it matter?

 

[GoneGoneGone]

Well because OP was worried about respiratory distress and honestly I am also worried about what happens at the latter stages of SN intake... If there is difficulty breathing.

 

[Notabadguy]

Well because OP was worried about respiratory distress and honestly I am also worried about what happens at the latter stages of SN intake... If there is difficulty breathing.

You're right. I didn't remember the OP. I suppose it can be worse for anyone with respiratory problems. Idk.