Method Trying To Obtain A Firearm With a Psychiatric Record PLS HELP.

[Illegal Preclear]

I'm ready to CTB this year. My DESIRED Method: Firearm. It's ALWAYS been my desired method. Either with a .357 Magnum like Budd Dwyer (and the gun my best friend used to CTB coincidentally), or a shotgun (which is much cheaper and the 'gold standard' of firearms to CTB with). I've imagined myself installing a skylight in the back of my head since I was a teenager. No failed CTB attempts, one and done, total finality. THE PROBLEM: I have a Psychiatric record extending back to the age of 3. I'm diagnosed with Autism and Schizophrenia. I've been involuntarily committed 14 times, my first one being at 11 years old. In 2016, a filthy Psychroach (what Psychiatrists deserve to be called) marked me as "a danger to others." I've been through mental health court.

Criminal record wise: I'm totally clean. But I happen to live in New Jersey which has simultaneously the most Draconian gun laws AND if my history is any indication, the most Draconian mental health laws.

As a backup method, I consider myself BLESSED to have a home with a literal perfect hanging area, and I already have a quality nautical supply rope. Full suspension hanging is a tried and true method, but there's no question it's not as ideal as using a firearm. I really, really want to go out with a firearm. Have you ever seen the infamous Budd Dwyer video? That guy was dead before he hit the ground.

Someone on here mentioned a website called Armslist, which I've been checking out, but I'm very paranoid about getting caught purchasing a gun, and it being deemed an "illegal purchase" by police. And the police literally know my face around here from how many times the Psychiatric system has sicked them on me. In the state of New Jersey - being caught with a gun illegally is 3 to 5 years in prison.

So I'm faced with this dilemma: Obtain a firearm which guarantees instant death, but risk going to jail at any point in the obtaining of or owning of it. OR opt for full suspension hanging - which carries the risk of something going wrong resulting in vegetative brain damage.

So what say you all? Is there a way I could access a firearm with minimal legal risk, OR should I just suck it up and go for full suspension hanging? (Keep in mind I really, REALLY would rather go out via firearm)

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I'm sorry, but I see no way you'd be able to purchase a gun by legal methods. You are prohibited by both state and federal law.

 

[ham and potatoes]

I won't suggest you break any gun laws. But someone in your case could theoretically go to another state, and buy from a private seller (gun show for instance) and not have to do any background checks or fill out any ATF forms. It's only when you buy from licensed dealers that you have to do that
Btw, buying something like a single shot shotgun will be way easier and draw less attention that a pistol

 

[LaughingGoat]

I won't suggest you break any gun laws. But someone in your case could theoretically go to another state, and buy from a private seller (gun show for instance) and not have to do any background checks or fill out any ATF forms. It's only when you buy from licensed dealers that you have to do that
Btw, buying something like a single shot shotgun will be way easier and draw less attention that a pistol

Seconding this, less risky than buying illegally. Linking a site below which has updated gun laws by state, imo Pennsylvania is your best bet close to you to get a shotgun without issue.

Link is a bit old but was current with my new state's law and I think is correct for PA as well.

Private Gun Sale Laws by State - FindLaw

While the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of private citizens to keep and bear arms, there are some limits and regulations on how they are sold and who may possess them. Federally licensed firearms dealers are required by federal law to conduct background checks on...

www.findlaw.com

 

[Illegal Preclear]

Thanks all for the advice. I think it's a matter of commitment on my part. If I want to go out with a firearm - I'm going to have use it to CTB the day I purchase it. Fair enough!

 

[Aprilfarewell4]

can someone buy it for you? as a gift? most people who have been institutionalized etc with no criminal activity related to ie, voluntary commitment etc, will get firearms with no issue. I did. I was in a psych ward for 7 days voluntarily when I was 28. I bought 5 firearms since then. zero issues.

 

[Timothy7dff]

It's crazy how gun laws vary state to state. NH is not far away. Dark web.

 

[dirtscooter]

Damn new jersey, was gunna say 3d printing is a super fun hobby.

 

[iloverachel]

Good luck my friend

 

[Illegal Preclear]

Know what? I've never actually TRIED applying to buy a gun. Maybe the fact I have no criminal record at all will balance things out. Maybe I'm mistaken and the database isn't as thorough as I'm making it out to be. It can't hurt to apply. I really don't want to have to hang myself if a firearm is an option. I've never attempted CTB at all so I have no idea what SI is going to feel like first hand. I know full suspension with a reliable setup has a high success rate and you're supposed to pass out in 15-30 seconds, but still - pulling a trigger and dying at the speed of sound is so much less frightening than that.

I'll keep you folks updated if my application is approved (I will be THROUGH THE MOON if it does). If not - there IS always the Gun Show loophole (even if I have to drive a ways because the Northeast Tristate area is so cucked when it comes to gun laws).

If all that fails - then I guess I hope full suspension hanging is as quick and painless as the Japanese Suicide Handbook says it is.

 

[lizzywizzy09]

I'm so jealous over Americans' access to firearms. Would be my method for sure.

 

[ham and potatoes]

Know what? I've never actually TRIED applying to buy a gun. Maybe the fact I have no criminal record at all will balance things out. Maybe I'm mistaken and the database isn't as thorough as I'm making it out to be. It can't hurt to apply. I really don't want to have to hang myself if a firearm is an option. I've never attempted CTB at all so I have no idea what SI is going to feel like first hand. I know full suspension with a reliable setup has a high success rate and you're supposed to pass out in 15-30 seconds, but still - pulling a trigger and dying at the speed of sound is so much less frightening than that.

I'll keep you folks updated if my application is approved (I will be THROUGH THE MOON if it does). If not - there IS always the Gun Show loophole (even if I have to drive a ways because the Northeast Tristate area is so cucked when it comes to gun laws).

If all that fails - then I guess I hope full suspension hanging is as quick and painless as the Japanese Suicide Handbook says it is.

Even if you are going the dealer route/ATF form way, still might be easier to make a short drive and go to a less stringent state to make your purchase

 

[Illegal Preclear]

I'm so jealous over Americans' access to firearms. Would be my method for sure.

It's not all it's cracked up to be. In the US - States Rights ALSO equals States lack of Rights. Each State has its own set of laws. The state I live in (New Jersey) is absolutely unreal. Only the privileged are allowed to own guns. You can be turned down at the State's complete discretion. I've spoken about this on this forum before, but we have the most Draconian mental health laws in the country. I didn't stand a chance - I was forced into the Mental Health system and experimented on from the age of 3 and my first institutionalization was at 11, so my brain was never able to develop right from all the druggings.

Even if you are going the dealer route/ATF form way, still might be easier to make a short drive and go to a less stringent state to make your purchase

That's going to be the case! I actually attempted to fill out the application and it asks you directly about mental health records.



Knowing this State, I could face legal repercussions 'bending the truth' on the form. But then I was totally roadblocked at the end of the form when they required two references. I'm a disabled shut-in. I don't know anyone aside from family members. And they're going to know EXACTLY what I want the gun for. And even if I had references - I just feel like there's no way they would approve the application because fuck me for being born disabled in the State where Big Pharma basically has it's headquarters and disabled kids (and adults) can legally be used as lab rats.

It would be easier to just hang myself than attempt to legally buy a gun in this State. So it's either that, or drive to a gun show in a State that isn't a Hellhole.

 

[ham and potatoes]

References to buy a gun? Jesus.... Yeah, that's wayyy different than my state

 

[melwarson]

I worked in law enforcement previously on the paperwork side of things. It's extremely unlikely that your mental health records will show up on a background check. This is illegal but if it was me I'd lie. I'm not familiar with New Jersey laws but I'm in CA and it's very strict here. We have a ten day waiting period which is ridiculous. You should be able to buy a shotgun or rifle with your NJ license in another state but technically it's probably illegal to bring it into NJ. I'm very pro gun rights. I'll link an article from an anti gun news site but it is rather thorough about the background process.

Everything You Need to Know About Federal Background Checks

A step-by-step guide to NICS, which vets anyone who attempts to buy a gun through a federally licensed firearms dealer.

www.thetrace.org

 

[LaughingGoat]

I worked in law engineering previously on the paperwork side of things. It's extremely unlikely that your mental health records will show up on a background check. This is illegal but if it was me I'd lie. I'm not familiar with New Jersey laws but I'm in CA and it's very strict here. We have a ten day waiting period which is ridiculous. You should be able to buy a shotgun or rifle with your NJ license in another state but technically it's probably illegal to bring it into NJ. I'm very pro gun rights. I'll link an article from an anti gun news site but it is rather thorough about the background process.

Everything You Need to Know About Federal Background Checks

A step-by-step guide to NICS, which vets anyone who attempts to buy a gun through a federally licensed firearms dealer.

www.thetrace.org

New Jersey's application is not the same as the federal check through an FFL. I would strongly recommend against doing this as if you were involuntary committed as an adult, it would likely show up in New Jersey's system as it gets reported to the county adjuster's office. Lying on this form could absolutely result in legal issues. If OP was only committed as a minor, those records are usually expunged at 18, but not sure about New Jersey.

 

[melwarson]

New Jersey's application is not the same as the federal check through an FFL. I would strongly recommend against doing this as if you were involuntary committed as an adult, it would likely show up in New Jersey's system as it gets reported to the county adjuster's office. Lying on this form could absolutely result in legal issues. If OP was only committed as a minor, those records are usually expunged at 18, but not sure about New Jersey.

Respectfully I did say it was illegal. Records of being in the psych ward disappear after five years in CA. Lying on a federal forms is a serious offense. But if this individual was recently committed it's illegal for them to purchase a gun period whether in NJ or another state.
They can always be brutally honest on the form about their psychiatric history and say they are seeking treatment and doing better and see if they are approved.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Respectfully I did say it was illegal. Records of being in the psych ward disappear after five years in CA. Lying on a federal forms is a serious offense. But if this individual was recently committed it's illegal for them to purchase a gun period whether in NJ or another state.
They can always be brutally honest on the form about their psychiatric history and say they are seeking treatment and doing better and see if they are approved.

The problem I'm highlighting isn't legality, I'm all for people acquiring guns by illegal means for the purpose of ending their own suffering. The issue is if you advise OP to lie on the New Jersey application and then he has cops show up at his door, he's going to have problems. If they go to another state and acquire a gun through a private seller, only way they will are in danger of being caught is if the gun is found by authorities in New Jersey. Much different chance from filling out a state application where you blatantly lie on the form.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

I worked in law enforcement previously on the paperwork side of things. It's extremely unlikely that your mental health records will show up on a background check. This is illegal but if it was me I'd lie. I'm not familiar with New Jersey laws but I'm in CA and it's very strict here. We have a ten day waiting period which is ridiculous. You should be able to buy a shotgun or rifle with your NJ license in another state but technically it's probably illegal to bring it into NJ. I'm very pro gun rights. I'll link an article from an anti gun news site but it is rather thorough about the background process.

Everything You Need to Know About Federal Background Checks

A step-by-step guide to NICS, which vets anyone who attempts to buy a gun through a federally licensed firearms dealer.

www.thetrace.org

Have an opinion on Oklahoma? Signed myself into the ER at the recommendation of a medical walk-in clinic for shoulder pain. She deemed that I was suicidal and next thing I know I'm court-ordered to go to a mental hospital for 72hrs. I was only there for like 36? This was maybe 10yrs ago? I don't know what to put on my application or if it will pass. So desperate. Thanks.

 

[Timothy7dff]

Personally, I don't think anyone cares if you lie on forms.......unless you're rich or powerful. I also don't believe any record is ever eliminated. The keep tabs on everyone. They'll beat you up if you're a threat (or if they're bored), but 99% of people wouldn't get in trouble for checking the wrong box.

You can always claim you forgot about your hospitalization or that you didn't think it applied.....or you misunderstood the question. Obviously, never answer anyone's questions without a lawyer.

2nd amendment is no joke in America. They're more scared of denying someone their constitutional rights.

 

[UtopianElephant]

I won't suggest you break any gun laws. But someone in your case could theoretically go to another state, and buy from a private seller (gun show for instance) and not have to do any background checks or fill out any ATF forms. It's only when you buy from licensed dealers that you have to do that
Btw, buying something like a single shot shotgun will be way easier and draw less attention that a pistol

Gun shows have FFL dealers selling there, almost exclusively. Private sellers at gun shows who do not have to do a transaction through a FFL are rare, from what I've read. Gun shows are only about 2% of the ways criminals obtain their firearms illegally, so this does not seem like a good option for the OP. Even if OP can find a private seller in another state to buy from, odds are good that that seller would ask for a state ID.

The safest thing for OP would be to first try to speak with a local attorney to find out if it is possible to legally buy in their state, or move to another state.

 

[Illegal Preclear]

I think I'm just going to have to accept the fact I'm going to wind up having to hang myself... My friends were good people, they got to have a good, clean death through a firearm. I'm a shitty person, I guess it's fitting I have a shitty death. I really, really hope I don't fuck up my hanging.

 

[LaughingGoat]

I think I'm just going to have to accept the fact I'm going to wind up having to hang myself... My friends were good people, they got to have a good, clean death through a firearm. I'm a shitty person, I guess it's fitting I have a shitty death. I really, really hope I don't fuck up my hanging.

Was there something you tried that didn't work in acquiring a firearm?

 

[Illegal Preclear]

Was there something you tried that didn't work in acquiring a firearm?

The problem is I'm afraid to try. I have so much PTSD from the Psychiatric System abusing me that I'm afraid if I even try to buy a firearm the police will show up at my house and haul me off to a Psychiatric Institution. I know my PTSD is warping my logic here, but you have no idea what Psychiatrists have put me through. The PTSD is so bad I actually froze up, hyperventilated, and partially blacked out because I saw what looked like in the dark to be an Ambulance, but it turned out to be an Amazon van recently.

Despite having a completely clean criminal record, I've been locked up 14 times in Psychiatric Institutions, so I have reason to believe I'm on A LOT of radars between Law Enforcement and general Governmental Authorities.

If I could gain access to a firearm even for 5 minutes - I'd be willing to CTB with it right then and there. But I can't stress enough how much I fear getting caught by Psychiatrists than I do death.

2nd amendment is no joke in America. They're more scared of denying someone their constitutional rights.

I can assure you no one in America is afraid to deny anyone their constitutional rights, and not a single "right" on the constitution can't be taken away in an instant. In fact I like to play a game with people - I say "Name one thing you think is bad about the Chinese Government, and I'll give you an example of how the same thing is done in America, but sneakier, crueler, and less dignified." Every "Freedom" the US boasts to the world has a LOT of fine print underneath - especially if you happen to be Disabled.

 

[LaughingGoat]

The problem is I'm afraid to try. I have so much PTSD from the Psychiatric System abusing me that I'm afraid if I even try to buy a firearm the police will show up at my house and haul me off to a Psychiatric Institution. I know my PTSD is warping my logic here, but you have no idea what Psychiatrists have put me through. The PTSD is so bad I actually froze up, hyperventilated, and partially blacked out because I saw what looked like in the dark to be an Ambulance, but it turned out to be an Amazon van recently.

Despite having a completely clean criminal record, I've been locked up 14 times in Psychiatric Institutions, so I have reason to believe I'm on A LOT of radars between Law Enforcement and general Governmental Authorities.

If I could gain access to a firearm even for 5 minutes - I'd be willing to CTB with it right then and there. But I can't stress enough how much I fear getting caught by Psychiatrists than I do death.

I hear you, PTSD isn't easily overcome so understandable to have fears. Wish I could help you directly.

 

[jbear824]

In kind of the same boat. In my state, my therapist and psychiatrist would both have to sign off on me owning a firearm. Which will never happen.

Funny because I thought the second amendment was inviolable and absolute. and the Constitution mentions nothing about mental illness being a barrier to bearing arms.

Interesting how we selectively apply that amendment.

 

[ham and potatoes]

Gun shows have FFL dealers selling there, almost exclusively. Private sellers at gun shows who do not have to do a transaction through a FFL are rare, from what I've read. Gun shows are only about 2% of the ways criminals obtain their firearms illegally, so this does not seem like a good option for the OP.

See, thats just weird to me. Im sure it greatly depends on where your are at, but a couple of my family members some nice, old hunting rifles, as they are big hunters.
So we go to gun shows often. and id say maby 1/4 to 1/3 of the sellers at the local show are actual FFL dealers. the remaining 3/4 or so are just random old guys with a bunch of guns who like to buy, sell, and trade guns.
But im sure the gun shows in california or new york are allot different that the ones here in central Appalachia

 

[Illegal Preclear]

Funny because I thought the second amendment was inviolable and absolute. and the Constitution mentions nothing about mental illness being a barrier to bearing arms.

Interesting how we selectively apply that amendment.

We selectively apply the entire Constitution. To perform an extrajudicial kidnapping and lock someone up without any criminal charges or citations and deny them legal counsel is literally just our Psychiatry System. And any authority figure can make up bullshit about someone and say they're insane. "Oh I saw this person who is critical of the government smearing his feces on the walls the other day, lock him up." But we're soooo much better than China, right? If reincarnation is real I'm hoping I respawn in China. But my point is US Governmental Authorities can "make someone disappear" just as easy as the countries we try ever so hard to scare people about.

See, thats just weird to me. Im sure it greatly depends on where your are at, but a couple of my family members some nice, old hunting rifles, as they are big hunters.
So we go to gun shows often. and id say maby 1/4 to 1/3 of the sellers at the local show are actual FFL dealers. the remaining 3/4 or so are just random old guys with a bunch of guns who like to buy, sell, and trade guns.
But im sure the gun shows in california or new york are allot different that the ones here in central Appalachia

See, I've never been to a gun show. The closest one I could drive to would be one in Pennsylvania, and while not as bad as New Jersey, they're still pretty blue.

So first - I'd have to find a Pennsylvania gun show that coincides during a time when my family is on vacation. And if I manage to purchase a gun, I'd pretty much have to CTB the day I got it. If SI kicks in and I choke...that's going to be very problematic. Because I'm very targeted due to my Psychiatric Record. Driving back home with a gun - if I get pulled over - I'm finished. If I'm caught owning a gun at any point - I'm finished. And by finished I mean put into a Psychiatric Facility indefinitely.

That's not to say I haven't given up on it - the stars could align and I could make it to a gun show and I could certainly go through with it.

But I've gotten to the point where I've weighed the pros and cons of full suspension hanging via shotgun in the mouth -

-I already have the rope (one that was actually featured in one of the hanging megathreads on here).

-I've already tested the rope - tied the slipknot and had 'practice sessions' to learn how to close off the proper arteries, get used to what it feels like - the 'head explosion' feeling, the pressure and all. I thankfully have a very high pain tolerance and I can see myself being able to take it until unconsciousness sets in.

-I have an ideal spot - a railing that won't buckle with ample space below.

-If I do it during the night when my family is on vacation - there's a 0% chance I'll be interrupted.

So even though there's more pain involved - it's much less risky to hang than risk legal and Psychiatric intervention by purchasing a gun.

I thank everyone on here for their advice, though. If anyone has any out of left field ideas on how to get a shotgun undetected, I'm all ears. But right now I've shifted to putting all my chips down on hanging.

 

[UtopianElephant]

That could be, I'm no expert in the specifics of gun shows, all I know is what I read online. Still, from the multiple people posting about the subject on quora, etc, it's a bit naive to think that gun shows are an easy source to purchase guns with no paper trail.

Gun shows are not going to take chances with private sellers at them selling to anyone with no restrictions. Even at your local shows in Pennsylvania, you can expect the private sellers to at least require buyers to present a PA id, and the gun shows may require additional things on top of that, such as a bill of sale.

See, thats just weird to me. Im sure it greatly depends on where your are at, but a couple of my family members some nice, old hunting rifles, as they are big hunters.
So we go to gun shows often. and id say maby 1/4 to 1/3 of the sellers at the local show are actual FFL dealers. the remaining 3/4 or so are just random old guys with a bunch of guns who like to buy, sell, and trade guns.
But im sure the gun shows in california or new york are allot different that the ones here in central Appalachia

That could be, I'm no expert in the specifics of gun shows, all I know is what I read online. Still, from the multiple people posting about the subject on quora, etc, it's a bit naive to think that gun shows are an easy source to purchase guns with no paper trail.

Gun shows are not going to take chances with private sellers at them selling to anyone with no restrictions. Even at your local shows in Pennsylvania, you can expect the private sellers to at least require buyers to present a PA id, and the gun shows may require additional things on top of that, such as a bill of sale.

In kind of the same boat. In my state, my therapist and psychiatrist would both have to sign off on me owning a firearm. Which will never happen.

Funny because I thought the second amendment was inviolable and absolute. and the Constitution mentions nothing about mental illness being a barrier to bearing arms.

Interesting how we selectively apply that amendment.

I agree with you. I'm not sure who the constitution applies to, but it's evidently not to everyone. For those who it doesn't reapply apply to, they may as well be in China or Cambodia.

Interestingly, after looking up gun laws through US history, these severe bans and restrictions of possession of firearms are relatively new. Early in the 20th Century and as late as 1967, anyone who wanted a gun could order one through mail order, and it would be looked at like any other purchase, and did not require any permission to buy or own.

 

[N3UR0T1C]

Were you ever involuntarily hospitalized (not a 72 hour hold or voluntary admission) like actually hospitalized by order of a Judge or Magistrate? If not, than it is legal for you to purchase a firearm.