Discussion True altruism

[Forever Sleep]

Does true altruism exist? What do you think? Even if we aren't doing kindnesses in the hopes they will be returned, what other reasons do we do them for? I'd say- to feel good about ourselves. To feel needed and kind. To comply with an upbringing that taught us to put others first. To win 'Brownie points' with God even. I think being altruistic helps with our sense of self. Who we hope we are. Who we were raised to be, as well as proving to others how good and polite we are. So- is it truly selfless?

I'm not by the way knocking people for it. Overall- it does more good for the reciprocant most of the time I imagine. I just find it interesting though.

I think it was Richard Dawkins in his book 'The Selfish Gene', who also said they we inherit altruistic genes. Because we live in societies and, working together is beneficial for all. Do you suppose some people get more altruistic genes than others? Or, is it mostly taught to us to help others?

But- my question is- for something to be truly selfless, would you have to hate doing it and either not expect to receive or, actually not receive any benefit from it? What do you think?

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I think staying alive for my family when I hate doing it counts as true altruism, but I think you're right, most of the time people help others for selfish reasons.

 

[-Link-]

If we buy into the idea that literally everything a human being does could be construed as selfish in some way, then I think it's fair to allow a degree of selfishness when considering so-called altruism.

As to whether anything we do is truly selfless... Looking at the extreme end of the altruism spectrum, one example that comes to mind is donating a kidney. It might be an arguable point to say there's a degree of selfishness in that act, but I'm not going to be the one pushing that argument.

 

[obligatoryshackles]

Do you believe human behavior is deterministic? If so, what does altruism even mean? Is a breaker circuit altruistic for saving the rest of the electronics and frying itself?

I think it's useful to distinguish between material altruism and moral altruism. Ignoring all emotional aspects, and therefore moral aspects, material altruism is pretty common. It's pretty common for humans to work to improve material conditions for others with no material benefit to themselves, and even to material detriment to themselves, after all. Helping your friends, donating to charity, volunteering, even sacrificing one's life to save others in extreme cases. This is likely to be a result of evolution, both genetically and culturally, as groups of materially altruistic individuals are typically more successful than groups of materially selfish individuals.

But morally? It's dubious if it's even possible for a human to take action without something driving it, whether that be seeking fulfillment, a desire for belonging, or even pursuing self punitive catharsis. One could certainly argue all of these motivations are by nature selfish, and thus, there is no such thing as moral altruism. But is there actually a purpose in the idea of moral, or true, altruism? What does it even mean to be selfish to begin with in this context? The very idea seemingly cannot exist, and relies on the dubious idea of free will to even make sense. After all, what is selfishness if all actions are deterministic to begin with, if you ignore material measures?

 

[Pluto]