Discussion Toxicity on this forum

[HopelessFight]

Note I'm not talking about specific individuals in this topic, but rather about the general environment on this forum.

There has been some toxicity on this forum since I joined, but I feel like this is only increasing over time. While it may be a controversial topic to discuss (and I hope people can keep it civil in their responses), but I feel it's something that needs to be addressed. I will show two recent examples and the second one is the actual reason I'm creating this topic.

1) The goodbye topic of a user who announced she would be using her N. For those who did not read it, I'll summarize: she poured out her N and was ready to drink it, but her SI took over and she didn't manage to do it. Perfectly reasonable. While there has been a lot of support for her, the topic is also full of people questioning her, being judgemental and accusing her just of asking for attention. Wow. Just wow. This is a clearly vulnerable person who's in a lot of pain, yet some people feel like it's acceptable to start behaving like this.

2) Related to that topic is the case of @Octavina. In the topic above, she asked if she could have the unused N. Obviously, this question is not appropiate at all. In the next posts, people pointed this out to her in a rather harsh way. A few minutes later, she created her own goodbye topic, announcing she just took SN impulsively. From what it looks like based on her last posts, this incident may have been the final trigger for her. This is a really sad story.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/taking-sn-now.71772/

(As someone pointed out in this topic, Octavina showed toxic behavior in that topic as well, on which people obviously responded quite harsh. My intention is not to let anyone feel guilty here, but rather address the atmosphere sometimes occuring on this forum.)

Especially this second example is what let me write this post. I get it, we're not always in a good mood to say the least. Still, maybe we (yes, that includes myself) should reflect on how and what we post. We're all vulnerable people here, for many of us this is the last place to go, hoping to find people understanding us. This place shoud be a welcoming place, and while it often is, toxic behavior is ruining it sometimes.

 

[motel rooms]

Related to that topic is the case of @Octavina. In the topic above, she asked if she could have the unused N. Obviously, this question is not appropiate at all. In the next posts, people pointed this out to her in a rather harsh way. A few minutes later, she created her own goodbye topic, announcing she just took SN impulsively. From what it looks like based on her last posts, this incident may have been the final trigger for her.

Yes, this story is really sad, but, in case you missed it, @Octavina also insensitively accused an extremely vulnerable person of just bragging about having expensive N that they were never actually going to use. That is why some members got annoyed & her insulting comment was removed. I didn't say anything to @Octavina, but those who did were much more polite than her. It's not fair to make them feel guilty that she ingested SN...

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

You're not wrong. The issue also arises when you would innocently post something that would be different from much of the community's opinion. Like my post, reminiscing the 8chan suicide server. Suddenly, I get branded a racist, sexist, a nazi, fascist, and an underaged child. Harshly told to not mention 8chan, and whatever, despite me trying to explain. Some people here really have no chill and is why I'm barely active now.

As for your presented case, I'm fortunate enough to not have encountered the post, but learning of this leaves me massively disappointed.

 

[HopelessFight]

Yes, this story is really sad, but, in case you missed it, @Octavina also insensitively accused an extremely vulnerable person of just bragging about having expensive N that they were never actually going to use. That is why some members got annoyed & her insulting comment was removed. I didn't say anything to @Octavina, but those who did were much more polite than her. It's not fair to make them feel guilty that she ingested SN...

I agree and I'm certainly not trying to make feeling people guilty because of her action. She indeed also showed very similar toxic behavior. It goes in both directions. The post you're referring to has been removed which is why I initally missed it, but it's still visibile in a quote. I've added this to the original post.

 

[motel rooms]

I think it's important to report toxic comments on people's goodbye threads. One condescending asshole - @liverpoolfan got banned yesterday & another member's disgusting comment (I won't name them) was removed after I reported them.

 

[Peel_the_Banana]

I agree and I'm certainly not trying to make feeling people guilty because of her action. She indeed also showed very similar toxic behavior. It goes in both directions. I've added this to the original post.

Yes, this story is really sad, but, in case you missed it, @Octavina also insensitively accused an extremely vulnerable person of just bragging about having expensive N that they were never actually going to use. That is why some members got annoyed & her insulting comment was removed. I didn't say anything to @Octavina, but those who did were much more polite than her. It's not fair to make them feel guilty that she ingested SN...

I agree and I would add that many here are socially inappropriate due to autism which has a spectrum or severe untreated BPD. In @Octavina case specifically, you could tell she was very young or (developmentally stagnant) and possible unaware of her inappropriateness. Thus she had an inappropriate response to both the thread and a strong response to those who gave her a reprimand.

This is an online forum so I wouldn't blame the people who interacted with her per say. What I would state is that people should just be aware that abnormal responses are highly possible.

Its a challenging issue however because this site does not represent a "normal" slice of society. As such, expectations where you'd have a balance of heavily compassionate, empathetic folks and those who have varying degrees of it including non-existent compassion may not show up in the interactions.

 

[HopelessFight]

Let me be clear: no one is to blame for her CTB'ing after an indicent on this forum. It's mostly an extremely sad story. However, this story has made me think a lot.

I agree and I would add that many here are socially inappropriate due to autism which has a spectrum or severe untreated BPD. In @Octavina case specifically, you could tell she was very young or (developmentally stagnant) and possible unaware of her inappropriateness. Thus she had an inappropriate response to both the thread and a strong response to those who gave her a reprimand.

I think this is spot on.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

I basically just got gangraped on this forum and ain't no one making threads about it.

 

[checkouttime]

I'm sure the moderators will deal with anything thats deemed to break the rules. i noticed the member liverpool lad was removed from the site for the stuff they posted. probably sum dick head member off the social media revenge squad..as you said people are vulnerable on here and people shouldn't mock others with BS and fake posts and all that crap you see.

Were on a suicide forum so it is never going be disneyland

there is an ignore button for people to use, i would just leave personally if things bothered me that much no is forced to be here and nor should they feel they have to be as that wouldn't be fair on them

 

[IWantToGoFast]

I know it sounds like a cliche but as general rule I ask myself this before I post:

"
T – TRUE. Is what you are saying actually true, or is it 'fake news'? Lies and misinformation hurt others and reflect the liar as someone untrustworthy.
H – HELPFUL. Are your words helpful? Assisting others to make better decisions through offering good advice is also important.
I – INSPIRING. Are others inspired by what you are saying? People are greatly inspired by words which have the influence to prompt others to do amazing things.
N – NECESSARY. Do your words really need to be said? Useless chatter is annoying, while language that actively hurts others is wholly unnecessary.
K – KIND. Is what you want to say kind? We all know the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all". Unkind sentences obviously have the power to hurt people.
"

 

[checkouttime]

I basically just got gangraped on this forum and ain't no one making threads about it.

and this thread was made about toxicity and we get a post like this!!!!

 

[Makko]

I know it sounds like a cliche but as general rule I ask myself this before I post:

"
T – TRUE. Is what you are saying actually true, or is it 'fake news'? Lies and misinformation hurt others and reflect the liar as someone untrustworthy.
H – HELPFUL. Are your words helpful? Assisting others to make better decisions through offering good advice is also important.
I – INSPIRING. Are others inspired by what you are saying? People are greatly inspired by words which have the influence to prompt others to do amazing things.
N – NECESSARY. Do your words really need to be said? Useless chatter is annoying, while language that actively hurts others is wholly unnecessary.
K – KIND. Is what you want to say kind? We all know the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all". Unkind sentences obviously have the power to hurt people.
"

While noble, that's a very lofty standard. Very few here would be able to consistently live up to it. Many times it also goes against the purpose of the forum. There are some highly uninspiring, unhelpful and unkind things that still must be said on this particular forum, despite their ugliness.

If someone is breaching etiquette, they may be dealt with individually, but I don't see how pointing out "toxicity" in general will make a difference. Eliminating "toxicity" will take a big cultural shift and a lot of censorship.

 

[HopelessFight]

I'm sure the moderators will deal with anything thats deemed to break the rules.

I feel like there should be a stricter moderation policy on toxic behavior, although that would be a discussion on its own. But apart from that, moderators cannot be online 24/7 to deal with these kind of issues.

 

[Makko]

I feel like there should be a stricter moderation policy on toxic behavior, although that would be a discussion on its own. But apart from that, moderators cannot be online 24/7 to deal with these kind of issues.

The problem with the term "toxic" is that it has no definition. As used on the internet, it's short for "whatever I subjectively don't like". You can't regulate that.

 

[checkouttime]

Well i guess there is a difference in what you find toxic and what the moderators do??? I'm certainly not going to question that myself, if i had a problem with it i would use leave the site and not put up with it anymore. I'm not going to stay on a site i'm unhappy with it wouldn't make sense at all for me.

yes your right they can't be online all the time, thats what the report button is for. and when they come online they will take action in deleting the posts or if nothing needs too be done they will leave it. Its the same think on social media etc which are far larger than this site. you see racist behaviour etc and hopefully its eventually taken down.

its just the way forums and social media etc work, if your going to use them you have to accept it i guess or decide against using them. I personally wouldn't be somewhere if i didn't like it, i can also look past all that crap though. but i understand others may be affected by it.

 

[Rhaiyne]

Whilst I didn't post on the thread you are mentioning, I was following it. I have to admit that it was appalling. I found it heartbreaking for the first person you mentioned. She was feeling bad enough and people felt entitled to try make her feel worse. I felt so horrible for her but I didn't have the "balls" to jump in to defend her... that won't happen again. If I see something like that I will immediately report it. For someone who was about to ctb and be treated like that is disgraceful really. As for the second person, yes, not at all nice but again, someone clearly ready to ctb and either way, compassion should be shown. There's a way of saying something and as has been posted .... Think.... before we say something as we have no idea what is happening for someone in that moment.
Good on you for raising this. It's been playing on my mind too.

 

[checkouttime]

The problem with the term "toxic" is that it has no definition. As used on the internet, it's short for "whatever I subjectively don't like". You can't regulate that.

i'm sure the moderators have a clear definition of what they seem fit. If people don't like that i'd say just leave, there's no point in people staying somewhere if its upsetting them.

i mean is someone explaining how they want to blow there head off with a gun not seen as toxic or sticking your head on a train track and getting it lobbed off, of course it is. but its a suicide forum not FB or twitter (although you'll probably see more toxic shit on them sites, just read the shit the social media revenge mob write for examples of that!!)

I do feel that people have the right to question what members say though and it seems some people are very sensitive to that. you can't just expect members to believe something a random stranger says on an internet forum, and anyone that does that would be silly. thats we are all told to research stuff and there are methods and threads stickyed by the owners of the site by members that were obviously trustworthy.

 

[IWantToGoFast]

While noble, that's a very lofty standard. Very few here would be able to consistently live up to it. Many times it also goes against the purpose of the forum. There are some highly uninspiring, unhelpful and unkind things that still must be said on this particular forum, despite their ugliness.

If someone is breaching etiquette, they may be dealt with individually, but I don't see how pointing out "toxicity" in general will make a difference. Eliminating "toxicity" will take a big cultural shift and a lot of censorship.

The idea is to filter words and thoughts and think before opening mouth. Standardising this is impossible and eliminating toxicity 100% again I think it's impossible. But toxicity can be diminished quite a lot trough common sense, respect and not judging a situation before facts are established, factor that help reduce the moderators work load.

 

[OceanBlue]

I find some responses a bit too nonchalant, like asking technical questions or derailing to own story on a goodbye post, not the right place. A person's life is ending in front of us after all.

 

[HopelessFight]

Well i guess there is a difference in what you find toxic and what the moderators do??? I'm certainly not going to question that myself, if i had a problem with it i would use leave the site and not put up with it anymore. I'm not going to stay on a site i'm unhappy with it wouldn't make sense at all for me.

yes your right they can't be online all the time, thats what the report button is for. and when they come online they will take action in deleting the posts or if nothing needs too be done they will leave it. Its the same think on social media etc which are far larger than this site. you see racist behaviour etc and hopefully its eventually taken down.

its just the way forums and social media etc work, if your going to use them you have to accept it i guess or decide against using them. I personally wouldn't be somewhere if i didn't like it, i can also look past all that crap though. but i understand others may be affected by it.

I am just pointing out a problem on this forum. This doesn't imply I don't like it here. If I really didn't like this forum I would have left this place already.

And yes, what counts as toxicity is worth a debate/discussion, because no one want too much censorship or free speech being affected. I feel such discussion is needed, although that should probably mostly been done between the moderators themselves.

But more importantly, and this is the point I'm trying to make here, I think everyone should reflect on themselves what they post on this forum and what potentional impact your words may have on other users.

 

[checkouttime]

Whilst I didn't post on the thread you are mentioning, I was following it. I have to admit that it was appalling. I found it heartbreaking for the first person you mentioned. She was feeling bad enough and people felt entitled to try make her feel worse. I felt so horrible for her but I didn't have the "balls" to jump in to defend her... that won't happen again. If I see something like that I will immediately report it. For someone who was about to ctb and be treated like that is disgraceful really. As for the second person, yes, not at all nice but again, someone clearly ready to ctb and either way, compassion should be shown. There's a way of saying something and as has been posted .... Think.... before we say something as we have no idea what is happening for someone in that moment.
Good on you for raising this. It's been playing on my mind too.

If you jump in to defend someone it could be seen as bullying i guess? if you have a group of people attacking another member it doesn't really make them any better than the person doing the post in the 1st place, best to just leave it to the moderators as its them who know the rules and how to enforce them.

I have altered how i say things myself as people didn't like some stuff and i'll admit i got in trouble for a couple of things i said, I said someone was lying, not as toxic as some stuff i have seen like these people with fake profiles etc post. i did apologise for what i said though.

 

[HopelessFight]

I find some responses a bit too nonchalant, like asking technical questions or derailing to own story on a goodbye post, not the right place. A person's life is ending in front of us after all.

This is often bothering me as well. Recently 2 forum members announced to CTB and someone straight on asked them to PM a link to their livestream. Come on.

 

[UKscotty]

I get the concern but come on, this is a forum where most people are suicidal and looking to die. I'd hazard a guess most of us are not in a good space mentally and its going to be pretty toxic all round.

 

[motel rooms]

The idea is to filter words and thoughts and think before opening mouth. Standardising this is impossible and eliminating toxicity 100% again I think it's impossible. But toxicity can be diminished quite a lot trough common sense, respect and not judging a situation before facts are established, factor that help reduce the moderators work load.

You're assuming that everyone is well-intentioned. That is not the case. Some miserable people enjoy torturing other miserable people.

 

[checkouttime]

I am just pointing out a problem on this forum. This doesn't imply I don't like it here. If I really didn't like this forum I would have left this place already.

And yes, what counts as toxicity is worth a debate/discussion, because no one want too much censorship or free speech being affected. I feel such discussion is needed, although that should probably mostly been done between the moderators themselves.

But more importantly, and this is the point I'm trying to make here, I think everyone should reflect on themselves what they post on this forum and what potentional impact your words may have on other users.

But i think thats your opinion of whats wrong, i also have issues with people posting misinformation, having fake profiles, and trying to cause suffering, anxiety and even more distress to the vulnerable people but i'm still here. I mean i have to laugh at the ones who post they can't find the search button, yeah ok. but its allowed to be posted and nothing gets done, so i deal with it, I'm not going to moan about it as it won't change so i just get on with it.

this site would be a hell of let better if the pro lifers, range mob left it alone. by all means let them try to get things banned blah blah, it doesn't bother me. but the moment they try to come on here and attack very genuine members they become fair game, and i think the owners of the site agree. For instance i can't stand these people out for revenge and i hope it hurts what i say about them, if they didn't do what they do and attack us they wouldn't get it back. I don't like people who think they can bully vulnerable people, i'm not vulnerable and will therefore stick up for the ones who can't defend themselves, realistically i shouldn't care, but i do as i can relate to how people feel(although thats different from knowing how they feel)

just as people may not agree with this site and people being able to find information. i don't agree with them attacking the genuine members on this site and thinking they are experts in mental health, and thats not to mention the terminally ill people who are nothing to even do with that. I don't like bullies and am strong enough to take on people like that. they stereotype mental health people are quivering messes when they're not, this just enhances the fact of how little they understand mental illness and their lack of expertise. in fact if you go on you tube and watch the stuff about shane taylor, you'll see exactly what type of person these people could be dealing with, he's a fucking nut job!!! personally if someone attacks me i will go above and beyond anything they would say or do, its how i have protected myself all my life, and i have never been bullied ever.

You're assuming that everyone is well-intentioned. That is not the case. Some miserable people enjoy torturing other miserable people.

fixthe26 and stopp SS to name a few!!! or they at least try to anyway!!

I find some responses a bit too nonchalant, like asking technical questions or derailing to own story on a goodbye post, not the right place. A person's life is ending in front of us after all.

people have asked people for photos etc while they are ctb before now. its just the nature of the site, why shouldn't people be allowed to ask questions i guess, everyone is meant to want to help each other on here. I mean its surely a good idea to find information from a person actually making an attempt.

If there fine about posting they are ctb on here and how they are doing it, i 'm sure they are more than happy to answer questions, or why not just not make a goodbye thread. they obviously want the attention, i personally don't want the attention myself and won't do one. but its upto others if they decide to do and i won't judge people if they do

 

[Makko]

fixthe26 and stopp SS to name a few!!! or they at least try to anyway!!

The issue here isn't infiltrators. There's a significant minority of genuine members who are not exactly fluffy, and the community has a difficult choice of allowing them and their brand of suicidality at the expense of a more hostile environment, or expelling them and making this place a censored hugbox.

 

[Acopia]

I'm not so active anymore as sadly I've found that SS is not the unquestionably comforting place it once was.
Now it reeks of judgement and suspicion, which I found not only sad, but exhausting.

Unfortunately we are a community of some of the most broken people of a society of broken people.. so there will always be cases such as the one you outline. I suppose that's the name of the game.

All you can do is try to approach everyone non-judgementally and with compassion. Also know when it's time to step away for a little while.

Peace & Love,
-A

 

[Anonymous_A]

Usually I'd comment on post/comments because…well it's the open internet, people post what they want, people respond how they want.
Bur literally the best thing to do is use the ignore/unwatch/block features.
The amount of users I've blocked/ignored is crazy high.
People sharing too much info, people saying weirdly odd shit, people asking questions that can be easily answered just by a simple search in t comments.
If you disagree with somebody, it's literally like the other person logs out of one account into another (accounts made same day lol) just to disagree with you further.
It's crazy, then again some people are too heavily invested into this place.
Some ask questions that are black or white answers that causes odd content.

Also people need to start putting off topic stuff in the off topic sub, not the suicide sub lol

Tldr: make use of block/ignore feature.

 

[IWantToGoFast]

You're assuming that everyone is well-intentioned. That is not the case. Some miserable people enjoy torturing other miserable people.

Agreed. That's the impossible factor and the reason you can't stop toxicity 100%. I was talking about us the common sense folk, because we're hurting inside most of the time, we're fragile, frustrated and it's easy to lash out.

 

[motel rooms]

There's a significant minority of genuine members who are not exactly fluffy, and the community has a difficult choice of allowing them and their brand of suicidality at the expense of a more hostile environment, or expelling them and making this place a censored hugbox.

They need to learn to use harmless sarcasm to hide their true (truly scary) nature like you, me & our bitchboy G. Well, I'm off to work. Old men's asses won't pound themselves.