Tips on how to get over si?

[nothingchanges]

I've had sn for 2 years now. Some good things have happened that have helped pass the time but I've always known deep down that I'm not meant to be here. I lose everyone I love bc I have a personality disorder and experience insane chronic pain and fatigue. Literally my life is just constant suffering and humiliation. The problem is every time I'm on the cusp of going through with it I back out. I've literally had sn in my mouth and spat it out (I know this is a bad idea). I always put it off thinking I'll do it the following day or weekend. And now I've been in this spiral of thinking every day I'm gonna die but I never do. I'm not even living at this point but I'm so afraid of dying. If I knew for sure that it was all nothingness or something good I'd be fine. But after what I've experienced and seen on this planet, I can only assume that any higher power is either malevolent or absolutely indifferent. I'm so afraid that whatever comes after this is worse or that I'll be in huge trouble with whatever forces put me here. I'm also terrified of reincarnation. Just showing back up here as another random human with no memory over and over sounds like literal hell. That's the other thing. I'm not convinced that I'm not already in hell and this life was personally tailored to torture and punish me. So again, it's like if I knew what happens after this I'd already be gone. I really lean toward us just dying like other animals and it all going black but I know there's a tiny possibility that there is more to this. This life seemingly came after black nothingness, so who's to say it couldn't happen again? I guess I'm just looking for tips. I've thought of journaling and keeping a pros and cons list day by day to logically convince myself that anything else would be better than this. Open to any suggestions.

 

[October112021]

Let's discount all metaphysical theories like religion for a moment. You have a couple of options under a purely physics-based, naturalistic, nonreligious system:

1. Eternal recurrence - Everything repeats identically forever. This might be because the universe is a closed system and Poincaré recurrence applies to it, or because the universe is infinite in duration and span and there is a copy of you trillions or quadrillions of light years away, or because the ultimate structure of reality is that of infinite universes nesting inside black holes or whatever. The hitching point here is whether or not a copy of you would be you, and are whether it would be condemned to make the same choices or whether it might make different choices.
As a kind of subset of (1a), a Boltzmann brain is also a possibility, albeit a horrific one: your brain might spontaneously emerge from the quantum chaos at the heat death of the universe, given sufficient time. These brains would exist for microseconds before being fried by the radioactivity of the dying universe.
2. Quantum immortality based on Many-Worlds Theory of quantum mechanics - you can't actually experience death. The wave form never collapses
3. Generic Subjective Continuity, or Open Individualism - Just ad the concept "redness" doesn't end when the apple falls and rots, so too does conscious experience resume elsewhere, albeit in another form. Nothing would necessarily be transferred - no memory or spirit or essence, no past life regressions - but the simplest possible conscious state at the moment of death might be sufficiently similar to that at the beginning of life for some other organism so that consciousness resumed within it, stripped of all memory and all experience.
4. Infinite nothingness - But this would not be blackness, I think, because to perceive blackness implies a perceiver. Rather, the closest human analogy I can think of is being put out with anaesthesia: you literally do nor experience anything.

With the first two, what you need to ask yourself is whether you believe a copy of yourself would indeed be you. This is the ship of Thesus paradox: does a ship in which each individual plank is gradually replaced remain the same ship? When Kirk and Spock step into the transporter on the Enterprise, do they die each time they are molecularly disassembled and cease to exist? If you believe no, then it follows that under these conditions you should expect to experience yourself as yourself again. If yes, move to number four for all practical matters.

I'm also not sure all of these are mutually exclusive except for the last. Eternal Recurrence is probably compatible with Open Individualism/Generic Subjective Continuity - One continuous span of awareness oscillating forever.

There are complications, from a human standpoint, with all of these: straight eternal recurrence seems like it would be monstrously unjust to those born which in bad circumstances, either genetic or social, or to abortions or to those with bad lives etc. The slave would always be a slave. The aborted fetid would always be an abortion. Etc. Straight quantum immortality would seem to lead to a hellscape of ever-degrading physical and psychological states. Infinite nothingness would suck for those who love their lives, or who want to see a loved one etc. again.

But all the theistic options suck also. Does even Hitler deserve a he'll of infinite duration? I mean a He'll which literally never ends? No, I don't think so. Would Heaven, after a multiplex of years, still be all that exciting? I doubt it.

From a purely human, moral standpoint, what makes the most sense to me from an ethical and desirable element (which may not be how the universe works at all) is Open Individualism. Hitler's eyes point of view will experience that of every Holocaust victim, and every Holocaust victim will experience Hitler's point of view. The rapisr will be the raped, the hunter the hunted, the savior the saved, etc., so that the total value of the system is nil.

Now, that sucks if you're one of those who wants all experience to end forever. However, that would mean that the problem is not with experience, but just with you. If "you" cease to exist in this life tomorrow and "you" open your eyes again as a sentient squid floating around in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant six hundred million light years away twenty billion years from now, and "you" perceive things as just fine from this new perspective, then what did any of it matter in the end?

 

[nothingchanges]

Let's discount all metaphysical theories like religion for a moment. You have a couple of options under a purely physics-based, naturalistic, nonreligious system:

1. Eternal recurrence - Everything repeats identically forever. This might be because the universe is a closed system and Poincaré recurrence applies to it, or because the universe is infinite in duration and span and there is a copy of you trillions or quadrillions of light years away, or because the ultimate structure of reality is that of infinite universes nesting inside black holes or whatever. The hitching point here is whether or not a copy of you would be you, and are whether it would be condemned to make the same choices or whether it might make different choices.
As a kind of subset of (1a), a Boltzmann brain is also a possibility, albeit a horrific one: your brain might spontaneously emerge from the quantum chaos at the heat death of the universe, given sufficient time. These brains would exist for microseconds before being fried by the radioactivity of the dying universe.
2. Quantum immortality based on Many-Worlds Theory of quantum mechanics - you can't actually experience death. The wave form never collapses
3. Generic Subjective Continuity, or Open Individualism - Just ad the concept "redness" doesn't end when the apple falls and rots, so too does conscious experience resume elsewhere, albeit in another form. Nothing would necessarily be transferred - no memory or spirit or essence, no past life regressions - but the simplest possible conscious state at the moment of death might be sufficiently similar to that at the beginning of life for some other organism so that consciousness resumed within it, stripped of all memory and all experience.
4. Infinite nothingness - But this would not be blackness, I think, because to perceive blackness implies a perceiver. Rather, the closest human analogy I can think of is being put out with anaesthesia: you literally do nor experience anything.

With the first two, what you need to ask yourself is whether you believe a copy of yourself would indeed be you. This is the ship of Thesus paradox: does a ship in which each individual plank is gradually replaced remain the same ship? When Kirk and Spock step into the transporter on the Enterprise, do they die each time they are molecularly disassembled and cease to exist? If you believe no, then it follows that under these conditions you should expect to experience yourself as yourself again. If yes, move to number four for all practical matters.

I'm also not sure all of these are mutually exclusive except for the last. Eternal Recurrence is probably compatible with Open Individualism/Generic Subjective Continuity - One continuous span of awareness oscillating forever.

There are complications, from a human standpoint, with all of these: straight eternal recurrence seems like it would be monstrously unjust to those born which in bad circumstances, either genetic or social, or to abortions or to those with bad lives etc. The slave would always be a slave. The aborted fetid would always be an abortion. Etc. Straight quantum immortality would seem to lead to a hellscape of ever-degrading physical and psychological states. Infinite nothingness would suck for those who love their lives, or who want to see a loved one etc. again.

But all the theistic options suck also. Does even Hitler deserve a he'll of infinite duration? I mean a He'll which literally never ends? No, I don't think so. Would Heaven, after a multiplex of years, still be all that exciting? I doubt it.

From a purely human, moral standpoint, what makes the most sense to me from an ethical and desirable element (which may not be how the universe works at all) is Open Individualism. Hitler's eyes point of view will experience that of every Holocaust victim, and every Holocaust victim will experience Hitler's point of view. The rapisr will be the raped, the hunter the hunted, the savior the saved, etc., so that the total value of the system is nil.

I've often considered the last point. It makes sense to me as well that everyone would experience life as everyone. Or maybe we're all one person/entity.

 

[October112021]

I've often considered the last point. It makes sense to me as well that everyone would experience life as everyone. Or maybe we're all one person/entity.

Let's take it further.

If the universe either repeats through linear time, or there is an infinite multiverse full of nested universes within black holes, or is indeed big enough so that you get copies of yourself, doesn't it necessarily follow if OI is true that you might come back into being again? And indeed, that you may do so under identical circumstances with different endpoints, eternally?

Perhaps the sentience of Hitler will eventually experience a time where he gets accepted into art school. And one where he becomes a Communist, dies in an automobile accident, emigrates to Texas (he almost did that), etc. Every possible outcome, as well as every other sentient being experiencing every possible outcome, forever.

Or not. Perhaps it's just eternal anaesthesia. Which is fine.

 

[FuneralCry]

I think that many people manage to overcome the SI either when they get so desperate to leave or they just know that it's time for them to leave this world, it's just a feeling that they have. It's hard to answer questions like this as after all those who managed to overcome the SI are no longer in this world. But there is no evidence of such a thing as reincarnation even existing, to me the idea of their being anything after this life is a fictional concept. The way that I see it we will all die one day no matter what so from my point of view it's more preferable for me to exit for when the time is right rather than it being out of my control.

 

[lionetta12]

I've had sn for 2 years now. Some good things have happened that have helped pass the time but I've always known deep down that I'm not meant to be here. I lose everyone I love bc I have a personality disorder and experience insane chronic pain and fatigue. Literally my life is just constant suffering and humiliation. The problem is every time I'm on the cusp of going through with it I back out. I've literally had sn in my mouth and spat it out (I know this is a bad idea). I always put it off thinking I'll do it the following day or weekend. And now I've been in this spiral of thinking every day I'm gonna die but I never do. I'm not even living at this point but I'm so afraid of dying. If I knew for sure that it was all nothingness or something good I'd be fine. But after what I've experienced and seen on this planet, I can only assume that any higher power is either malevolent or absolutely indifferent. I'm so afraid that whatever comes after this is worse or that I'll be in huge trouble with whatever forces put me here. I'm also terrified of reincarnation. Just showing back up here as another random human with no memory over and over sounds like literal hell. That's the other thing. I'm not convinced that I'm not already in hell and this life was personally tailored to torture and punish me. So again, it's like if I knew what happens after this I'd already be gone. I really lean toward us just dying like other animals and it all going black but I know there's a tiny possibility that there is more to this. This life seemingly came after black nothingness, so who's to say it couldn't happen again? I guess I'm just looking for tips. I've thought of journaling and keeping a pros and cons list day by day to logically convince myself that anything else would be better than this. Open to any suggestions.

I haven't read anything on this anywhere but idk maybe LSD could be used to overcome SI? I've wondered how that would be in combination with SN. A few people end up suiciding every year when they are on LSD. But then again, if you have access to drugs like that you probably don't need SN.

 

[lifeORdeath]

Think if a burning apartment. SI is strong when it's just smoke and your looking down 12 floors or so at a sidewalk.
When the flames get closer and it's hotter, which is more risky and does SI choose...the flames or the sidewalk.?

What's your flame and how hot is it? How hot is too hot?

 

[akirat9]

For me lose the one last thing ?
thats tip for myself

 

[theboy]

The arguments for dying must outweigh those for living