Method time to death for digoxin overdose?

[i-d-k]

hello, i am new here and hopefully won't be around for long

i don't have access to the search function on the website but i did use external search engines on this site and otherwise and i couldn't find any answers, which is why i'm creating a new post

i found some varying sources on the internet about the toxicity of digoxin
https://digifab.health/en-us/digoxin-toxicity/potentially-fatal-digoxin-toxicity.html says "Known suicidal or accidental consumption of fatal doses of digoxin: 10 mg or more of digoxin in healthy adults"
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Digoxin#section=Human-Toxicity-Excerpts says "A dose above 25 mg ingested by an adult without heart disease appeared to be uniformly fatal"
http://www.teveritt.co.uk/clinical_chemistry/guidelines/Digoxin_Overdose.htm says "Death has occurred after 4 mg but patients have survived ingestion of 20-40 mg with treatment"

however none of them mention the time it would take for the digoxin to cause death
i do not live alone and i'm planning to take 30mg digoxin along with zolpidem before i sleep. i will also take some antiemetics beforehand to prevent vomiting
i need to know if this will cause death within ~8 hours. any longer than that would not work as someone would try to wake me up

i read about DDMAPh in the peaceful pill handbook. i could acquire the other drugs except morphine if they would speed up the process to within 8 hours
if the purpose of the other drugs is only to reduce pain, then i don't really need them

tl;dr
i have two questions:
- how long would it take 30mg of digoxin to kill a person?
- is DDMAPh overkill if 30mg of digoxin can work?

thanks for your help

 

[i-d-k]

A case of digoxin intoxication caused by short-term massive overdose: Case report - PMC

Digoxin is a frequently prescribed medication for the management of both acute and chronic cardiac insufficiency. The overdose ingestion of digoxin can result in a range of arrhythmias, with severe cases potentially leading to malignant arrhythmias ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

i found this article where a woman took 330 pills of digoxin 0.25mg (total 82.5mg) and was rescued. so i guess digoxin alone will not work

 

[Mayonaise]

I would not use digoxin alone. DDMAPh is a proven protocol, if you can get the other drugs you'd have one of the best methods available. Here are the statistics about time to death according to official euthanasia papers I gathered (a bit discordant because they come from different sources/countries, but should give an idea):

DDMAPh-1
<1 hour: 60%
1-6 hours: 35%
>6 hours: 5%

DDMAPh-2
<1 hour: 41%
1-6 hours: 51%
>6 hours: 8%

DDMAPh/D-DMAPh
Average time to sleep (mins): 7.8
Average time to death (hours): 1.2
Maximum Time to Death (hours):
- DDMAPh: 5.1 hrs
- D-DMAPh: 3.8 hrs

 

[i-d-k]

I would not use digoxin alone. DDMAPh is a proven protocol, if you can get the other drugs you'd have one of the best methods available. Here are the statistics about time to death according to official euthanasia papers I gathered (a bit discordant because they come from different sources/countries, but should give an idea):

DDMAPh-1
<1 hour: 60%
1-6 hours: 35%
>6 hours: 5%

DDMAPh-2
<1 hour: 41%
1-6 hours: 51%
>6 hours: 8%

DDMAPh/D-DMAPh
Average time to sleep (mins): 7.8
Average time to death (hours): 1.2
Maximum Time to Death (hours):
- DDMAPh: 5.1 hrs
- D-DMAPh: 3.8 hrs

thanks, i also feel that ddmaph would be more effective. i can get all the drugs required for it, but they would be in tablet form and i don't know if crushing the tablets and drinking them with water would be effective, especially since there are so many
the maid protocol explicitly states that "All medications must be obtained by the pharmacist in powder form, not from crushed tablets or opened capsules." so i'm not sure if it will work

i made a thread for it but there were no replies saying whether it will or will not work

ddmaph with crushed tablets?

according to https://www.acamaid.org/pharmacologyinfoupdates/ the ddmaph protocol says: "All medications must be obtained by the pharmacist in powder form, not from crushed tablets or opened capsules." i am in a third world country so i can easily get the medications in tablet form and crush...

sanctioned-suicide.net

my criteria for a method are:

• it should cause death in under 8 hours
• it should not be an obvious suicide

other than that i don't mind if it causes pain or is illegal

so far it seems like none of the methods i have seen are possible

• nembutal: would be perfect but is next to impossible to acquire in india
• ddmaph: impossible to get the compunded version. crushed tablets may not work
• sodium nitrite: looks like an obvious suicide
• inert gas: requires somebody to remove the bag and tank. i don't have anyone

 

[Mayonaise]

I don't know if crushing the tablets and drinking them with water would be effective, especially since there are so many
the maid protocol explicitly states that "All medications must be obtained by the pharmacist in powder form, not from crushed tablets or opened capsules."

That's only because a pharmacist is trained and entitled to prepare drug mixtures. If people were to use their own medications in a DIY setting, a lot of things could go wrong (i.e. they could use expired or poorly-stored drugs). If you get all your drugs from a reputable source, I don't think it would make any difference. The only problem would be the enormous amount of pills. Apparently, you can buy pure powdered drugs from IndiaMart, or you could try lab suppliers

My criteria for a method are:

• it should cause death in under 8 hours
• it should not be an obvious suicide

If an autopsy is performed, the DDMA drugs would be probably found in your system

 

[maniac116]

There's a risk of vomiting with digoxin.
Forget about floxglove. You'll definitely vomit with foxglove. Digoxin will possibly cause pain when the "cardiac event" happens.
Overall, drug OD has a very low success rate & isn't reliable. (86%+ failure rate)

 

[i-d-k]

@Mayonaise
thank you so much for the reply. i did find digoxin and phenobarbital available as powder on india mart. it would be easier for me to get the tablets since i can walk into a pharmacy and buy them. i will get reliable branded ones instead of generics, so hopefully it should be safe enough
ordering from india mart is riskier because my parents could receive the package
i will prepare the crushed tablets and see if it is not too much to swallow

i am not worried about an autopsy being performed. it's not a common procedure in india except in cases of suspicious deaths

There's a risk of vomiting with digoxin.
Forget about floxglove. You'll definitely vomit with foxglove. Digoxin will possibly cause pain when the "cardiac event" happens.
Overall, drug OD has a very low success rate & isn't reliable. (86%+ failure rate)

i will take anti emetics to help with vomiting as recommended by the peaceful pill handbook

i don't mind a few minutes or hours of pain if it can finally end my life

is that statistic for all drugs? ddmaph is the recommended drug for physician assisted suicide so it should have a higher success rate (i'm on my phone now. i will look it up later)

 

[Mayonaise]

I will prepare the crushed tablets and see if it is not too much to swallow

Please do your math before buying. As far as I know, digoxin is only sold in 0.25mg strength and you need 100mg. That's 400 pills, not to mention the other drugs. That's why I suggested looking for pure powdered drugs.

Don't worry about what maniac116 says: the DDMAPh protocol was designed by doctors and underwent several reviews and years of improvement. There have been very rare cases of people regaining consciousness and quite a few cases of people taking many, many hours to die, but it's very, very unlikely that'll happen to you (unless you have gastroparesis maybe). Keep in mind that people going with this protocol are terminally ill and the vast majority are aged 65 and older. Their bodies are frail and don't work as they should, some of them have problems with the absorption of drugs.

I've never read of anybody surviving this drug cocktail. This is not a traditional overdose and the 86% thing mentioned before is just ridiculous in this case.

 

[i-d-k]

i have calculated the tablets as follows:

drug	requirement	brand + dose	tablet count
digoxin	100mg	lanoxin 0.25mg	400
diazepam	1g	valium 10mg	100
morphine	15g	vermor 60mg	250
amitriptyline	8g	eliwel 75mg	107
phenobarbital	5g	gardenal 60mg	84
		total tablets:	941

digoxin is the biggest component here so getting it in powdered form would make sense. i will contact some of the sellers from indiamart tomorrow and see if any of them seem good enough to order from
one concern there is that i won't know if the sellers on indiamart are giving me the right quality. lanoxin is a branded product from gsk so at least it should be of reliable quality
if i get the digoxin as a pure powder, the number of tablets goes down to 541 which is still quite high but more manageable. i don't think getting phenobarbital powder to reduce 84 tablets is worth it. the rest are not available as a powder on indiamart so i'll have to use pills. morphine is available as injections/syrups but those would be even less concentrated than a tablet

i'm sure maniac116 means well since my original question was about digoxin alone which seems much less reliable. however with ddmaph, as you mentioned, that should not be a concern.
i saw the reports that said that all the patients who received ddmaph died within ~10 hours. since that data is for people receiving euthanasia, there are no stats on recovery. in the unlikely event that i'm discovered before i die and "rescued", what kind of permanent effects could the drug mixture have? i couldn't find any data for this. maybe i am using the wrong keywords?

 

[Mayonaise]

You are clearly putting in the effort in your plan, and as a fellow sufferer, I'm very sorry it's coming down to this for you. I also hope you have exhausted other options before deciding to take the final exit.

Here are my observations:

- This post may help you in assessing whether the seller is likely legit or a scam. Be aware that some scammers harvest data such as addresses, employee names and logos from real, legit companies but use their own phone number, so it is imperative to check all data before buying. When they write you an email, check that the contacts data in the email match as well. Seems complicated but in the end it's just common sense.

- You are right, with powdered drugs you don't really know what you get until you test it, and sending a sample to a lab for testing might be complicated and expensive.

- Have you considered skipping phenobarbital and going with the DDMA instead? Pheno was first added to DDMA to add a 3rd class of sedative that will be additive to respiratory depression. It was also added to help prevent seizure activity. So it's definitely useful but not essential - although only you can decide whether the cons outweigh the pros.

- If you have trouble finding morphine you can use other synth opioids (fentanyl, nitazenes, bromadol and such) which are way more potent than morphine. Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough to advise you, but it might be an idea. Bioavailability is very important if you consider this route.

- Regarding the Amitriptyline, Exit International recommends the brand Endep as it's water soluble, so no crushing needed. But I don't know if this brand is still manufactured. Anyway, another idea for you.

- Regarding the time to death, I tend to agree with you but since I have data from multiple countries and multiple timespans, my conclusions are a bit different. I still need to organize my data in a single Word file. I included some time to death examples in one of my previous posts.
I have no idea what kind of damage your body could sustain if you were rescued in time, I guess it depends how early into the process you were interrupted.

I'm interested in your journey, keep me updated if you feel like, and of course questions are welcome. I might be able to share my research with you once it's been compiled into a single file

 

[i-d-k]

thank you, i don't see any other options that could help me and this is the only thing i have wanted in a long time
it seems like you have been thinking about it for a while too. it's good to prepare well and ensure that the plan works rather than a half-baked attempt that would leave me worse off

i had seen your post about finding trusted sellers on indiamart before. it is definitely helpful. i made an account and reached out to some of the sellers. one of them called me back and were quite persistent about getting me to buy. the price of the pure powder is lower than the pill per unit of weight, however they only sell a minimum of 100g which is 1000x what i need. so it would be too expensive. ~600mg of powder is equivalent in price to 100mg of pills. if i can find a seller who is willing to ship 1g, it might be worth the extra cost, otherwise it's not worth it. for now, crushed tablets seems like the best option

acquiring the pills is not a problem at all because chemists rarely ask for prescriptions and even if they do it's very easy to show them a fake one from a doctor in another city. there are a few big chains that take a lot of details while selling medicines, but most local shops don't really care about prescriptions.
because it's so easy, i don't see any reason to remove phenobarbitone. it's a few more pills to swallow. i know the sample size is small but the data did show faster time to death with phenobarbitone than without, so it's worth having it

similarly, getting morphine shouldn't be a problem either. i did consider going for more potent opiods if they would make it faster or less painful, however i'm not knowledgeable enough to understand the potential effects so i would rather stick to the known formula

can you share the source for the endep recommendation? from what i can see, endep is alprazolam which is the same as xanax and is a different drug than amitriptyline

the chances of me being discovered before i die are practically zero because i am almost certain to get 6-8 hours without being disturbed

thank you. i will share my progress as i acquire all the ingredients. for now i have 30 pills of lanoxin 0.25 which i bought on a whim to see how strict pharmacies are about prescriptions
i would be interested to see your research as well. all your posts have been very informative

 

[i-d-k]

i was able to buy a 100 tablet bottle of phenobarbital (gardenal 60) and 50 more tablets of digoxin (lanoxin 0.25). the shopkeeper said he can arrange for the rest by next week. he was not suspicious at all despite me asking for such large quantities

 

[L'absent]

It has little chance of working.

 

[i-d-k]

why do you say that? it's the recommended protocol in peaceful pill handbook and other medical aid in dying resources

 

[Mayonaise]

they only sell a minimum of 100g which is 1000x what i need. so it would be too expensive. ~600mg of powder is equivalent in price to 100mg of pills. if i can find a seller who is willing to ship 1g, it might be worth the extra cost, otherwise it's not worth it.

Ok, I get it. I'm strongly suggesting trying to source powdered drugs because, with crushed tablets, you'll have a huge amount of fillers and inert material which not only will increase the volume of the mixture you have to drink, but will also make absorption slower. But it's just a recommendation, only you can decide depending on your situation

i don't see any reason to remove phenobarbitone. it's a few more pills to swallow. i know the sample size is small but the data did show faster time to death with phenobarbitone than without, so it's worth having it

Fair point. Here's an excerpt from an official ACAMAiD paper which compares times to death of Phenobarbital protocols VS. Non-Phenobarbital protocols:

DDMA (141 deaths) / D-DMA (113 deaths)
Average time to sleep (mins): 5.8
Average time to death (hours): 1.5
Maximum time to death (hours):
- DDMA: 12.4
- D-DMA: 6.0

DDMAPh (32 deaths) / D-DMAPh (20 deaths)
Average time to sleep (mins): 7.8
Average time to death (hours): 1.2
Maximum time to death (hours):
- DDMAPh: 5.1
- D-DMAPh: 3.8

Source: American Clinicians Academy on Medical Aid in Dying - Adding Phenobarbital to the D-DMA and DDMA Medication Protocols for Medical Aid in Dying - January 12, 2021
Authors: Lonny Shavelson, MD - Chair, American Clinicians Academy on Medical Aid in Dying
Carol Parrot, MD - Clinical Consultant, End of Life Washington

similarly, getting morphine shouldn't be a problem either. i did consider going for more potent opiods if they would make it faster or less painful, however i'm not knowledgeable enough to understand the potential effects so i would rather stick to the known formula

The advantage with potent synth opioids is you'll need much less than Morphine 15gm, so you'll have much less powder to deal with. Also, depending on your country's controlled substance table, you might find a substance which isn't controlled, so you won't be breaking the law, although you stated that wouldn't be a problem for you.
The drawback is, you'll most likely have to test it to ensure its purity since these opioids are not for human consumption and are not manufactured by pharma companies (that's why they're labeled as "research chemicals"). What you say makes sense though, so in the end it's your call. Just keep in mind morphine might induce nausea and is likely to slow down gut motility, thus hindering the process. But overall, the protocol was designed by experienced doctors so following it to a T will always be a good idea

can you share the source for the endep recommendation? from what i can see, endep is alprazolam which is the same as xanax and is a different drug than amitriptyline

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/amitriptyline-cocktail-method.260/post-370390
Honestly, I don't know if this brand of soluble Ami is still being manufactured

the chances of me being discovered before i die are practically zero because i am almost certain to get 6-8 hours without being disturbed

6-8 hours will 99% be enough. Obviously, it would be better if you could do it outside of your home. As far as I know, the risk of vomiting or seizures is not high, but if it happens that might ruin your plans

i would be interested to see your research as well. all your posts have been very informative

I will definitely share it with you, but it's going to take a while

 

[i-d-k]

Ok, I get it. I'm strongly suggesting trying to source powdered drugs because, with crushed tablets, you'll have a huge amount of fillers and inert material which not only will increase the volume of the mixture you have to drink, but will also make absorption slower. But it's just a recommendation, only you can decide depending on your situation

i looked up some more about it. there are no exact numbers on the internet and i don't have a precise weighing scale to measure it, but the approximate weight of a lanoxin 0.25 tablet is 150-300mg. so taking 400 of those would be 60-120g of extra material to ingest, which is not a huge amount imo, especially if it's dissolved in water

i did find this data however https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2011/020405s006lbl.pdf which states that tablets have 60-80% of the bioavailability of an injection. i don't know if the numbers in the pph and other maid resources take that into account, or if i'll need to increase the dosage to account for it

DDMA (141 deaths) / D-DMA (113 deaths)
Average time to sleep (mins): 5.8
Average time to death (hours): 1.5
Maximum time to death (hours):
- DDMA: 12.4
- D-DMA: 6.0

DDMAPh (32 deaths) / D-DMAPh (20 deaths)
Average time to sleep (mins): 7.8
Average time to death (hours): 1.2
Maximum time to death (hours):
- DDMAPh: 5.1
- D-DMAPh: 3.8

thanks, i had seen the same data. the maximum time going down from 12.4 to 5.1 is what makes it seem worth it to me. the sample size is quite small so it's possible that the maximum time could be higher for ddmaph as well, but it's definitely high for ddma without ph. the phenobarbital tablets were the easiest to acquire tbh because they come in a bottle of 100 tablets and i only need 84

The advantage with potent synth opioids is you'll need much less than Morphine 15gm, so you'll have much less powder to deal with. Also, depending on your country's controlled substance table, you might find a substance which isn't controlled, so you won't be breaking the law, although you stated that wouldn't be a problem for you.
The drawback is, you'll most likely have to test it to ensure its purity since these opioids are not for human consumption and are not manufactured by pharma companies (that's why they're labeled as "research chemicals"). What you say makes sense though, so in the end it's your call. Just keep in mind morphine might induce nausea and is likely to slow down gut motility, thus hindering the process. But overall, the protocol was designed by experienced doctors so following it to a T will always be a good idea

yeah, i am okay with breaking the law in the sense of using a fake prescription to get drugs or something similar because such crimes aren't usually caught or prosecuted here, especially not at a small scale of one person buying a few hundred tablets. getting drugs that are outright illegal would involve dealing with shady people which is a lot more dangerous and not something i would be comfortable with
fentanyl injections are available at pharmacies but i would rather not use a syringe because that would make it obvious that it's a suicide

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/amitriptyline-cocktail-method.260/post-370390
Honestly, I don't know if this brand of soluble Ami is still being manufactured

thanks for sharing this. it seems like this brand is not available in my country so i'll just get the one that is

an update regarding the pills: i was able to get 20 more tablets of digoxin and the pharmacy can arrange 30 more by next week, however they are unable to get more than that. apparently they are not able to get larger quantities from their supplier. they also weren't able to get any of the other meds, so i'll have to go around looking for other pharmacies that have more digoxin as well as the rest

 

[Mayonaise]

i did find this data however https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2011/020405s006lbl.pdf which states that tablets have 60-80% of the bioavailability of an injection. i don't know if the numbers in the pph and other maid resources take that into account, or if i'll need to increase the dosage to account for it

I quickly went through the PDF. Don't worry, it's normal. Oral bioavailability will always be equal to or (more probably) lesser than IV bioavailability, and it's pretty obvious why.
The MAiD protocols we're referring to are specifically designed for oral administration, so the bioavailability of the various drugs involved have been taken into account.
Don't worry, the dosages provided by the ACAMAiD are correct.

thanks, i had seen the same data. the maximum time going down from 12.4 to 5.1 is what makes it seem worth it to me. the sample size is quite small so it's possible that the maximum time could be higher for ddmaph as well, but it's definitely high for ddma without ph.

Keep in mind the maximum time to death are a small % of the total deaths recorded. Right now I can't remember how small this % was, but I may have included that in my research.
The vast majority of people who make up this % have absorption problems (i.e. gastroparesis or other GI issues).

getting drugs that are outright illegal would involve dealing with shady people which is a lot more dangerous and not something i would be comfortable with

I got your point. I'm not suggesting anything, just remember you could buy synth opioids on the clearweb from labs. Of course, you should test the substance after buying, but you wouldn't have to go to a street dealer. It's just an idea that might prove useful as a last resort

 

[intr0verse]

If you can source it, either on Indiamart or in a pharmacy, look for phenobarbital sodium, it has a much more rapid onset than phenobarbital. It usually comes as a liquid in vials of various quantity with different concentration. Just look for a combination of the highest concentration/ highest quantity per vial. For example just looking on indiamart, i was able to find vials of 20mg with 500 mg/ml, but pretty sure they should be available in pharmacies aswell.That would be 1g/vial. It's intended for injection but can be taken as a drink too. It will be faster-acting than phenobarbital and you won't have to deal with crushing pills, which in the case of phenobarbital, won't completely dissolve in water.

 

[i-d-k]

I quickly went through the PDF. Don't worry, it's normal. Oral bioavailability will always be equal to or (more probably) lesser than IV bioavailability, and it's pretty obvious why.
The MAiD protocols we're referring to are specifically designed for oral administration, so the bioavailability of the various drugs involved have been taken into account.
Don't worry, the dosages provided by the ACAMAiD are correct.

thanks for the confirmation. i did double check with the peaceful pill handbook and they actually mention crushing 800 digoxin tablets as part of the ddmaph protocol. i guess they were using 0.125mg tablets. i will need 400 since i am using 0.25mg tablets. so it seems like using tablets and crushing them, while not the ideal method, should be fine

Keep in mind the maximum time to death are a small % of the total deaths recorded. Right now I can't remember how small this % was, but I may have included that in my research.
The vast majority of people who make up this % have absorption problems (i.e. gastroparesis or other GI issues).

i found this link - https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/12-21-21-DDMAPh-Time-to-Death-Data.pdf that says 85% of deaths were within 2 hours. it also talks about the absorption problems that you mentioned. it seems like this is a relatively safe method as long as i am able to acquire all the meds

speaking of which, i got the next 30 digoxin tablets which brings my total to 130. next week i will try to buy the remaining meds by visiting multiple pharmacies and purchasing small quantities from each of them

If you can source it, either on Indiamart or in a pharmacy, look for phenobarbital sodium, it has a much more rapid onset than phenobarbital. It usually comes as a liquid in vials of various quantity with different concentration. Just look for a combination of the highest concentration/ highest quantity per vial. For example just looking on indiamart, i was able to find vials of 20mg with 500 mg/ml, but pretty sure they should be available in pharmacies aswell.That would be 1g/vial. It's intended for injection but can be taken as a drink too. It will be faster-acting than phenobarbital and you won't have to deal with crushing pills, which in the case of phenobarbital, won't completely dissolve in water.

thanks for the suggestion. my experience trying to buy digoxin from indiamart was disappointing so i am not inclined to try it again
i messaged five sellers out of which three of them completely ignored my message. one seller seemed to not understand how the chat system works and kept sending me the same automated message. and the final one kept calling me and asking me to buy 100g of digoxin. that would have been useful if i had a suicide cult but it's just me and they weren't willing to sell less than 100g even as a sample
i just looked up the phenobarbital sodium injection sellers on indiamart and they have listed minimum order quantities of 30000 and 100000, so i doubt they'd be willing to sell smaller amounts
even if it doesn't dissolve well, it should be fine as long as i am able to drink it

 

[Mayonaise]

i found this link - https://www.acamaid.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/12-21-21-DDMAPh-Time-to-Death-Data.pdf that says 85% of deaths were within 2 hours. it also talks about the absorption problems that you mentioned. it seems like this is a relatively safe method as long as i am able to acquire all the meds

We have been reading the same papers. To sum it up: "85% of patients now have times to death of 2 hours or less. The 15% of deaths that exceeded 2 hours varied from 2.5 hours to a rare 3% of all cases at >5 hours (max of 10 hours). Of these, pre-ingestion gut dysfunction was common (including nausea or vomiting before ingestion)."
3% is a very small percentage and 10 hours was the maximum time of death ever recorded, making it an even smaller percentage.
From what I've researched this method is close to perfect if executed properly.

If you can source it, either on Indiamart or in a pharmacy, look for phenobarbital sodium, it has a much more rapid onset than phenobarbital. It usually comes as a liquid in vials of various quantity with different concentration. Just look for a combination of the highest concentration/ highest quantity per vial. For example just looking on indiamart, i was able to find vials of 20mg with 500 mg/ml, but pretty sure they should be available in pharmacies aswell.That would be 1g/vial. It's intended for injection but can be taken as a drink too. It will be faster-acting than phenobarbital and you won't have to deal with crushing pills, which in the case of phenobarbital, won't completely dissolve in water.

i just looked up the phenobarbital sodium injection sellers on indiamart and they have listed minimum order quantities of 30000 and 100000, so i doubt they'd be willing to sell smaller amounts
even if it doesn't dissolve well, it should be fine as long as i am able to drink it

Interesting idea, but we're talking about an IV drug. @intr0verse , are you sure the oral bioavailability of the liquid solution will be high enough when taken orally?

 

[EternalSkies]

There's a risk of vomiting with digoxin.
Forget about floxglove. You'll definitely vomit with foxglove. Digoxin will possibly cause pain when the "cardiac event" happens.
Overall, drug OD has a very low success rate & isn't reliable. (86%+ failure rate)

I have made tea on foxglove leafs and even used the leafs in an omelet and didn't vomit
I thought I was going to, but didn't

 

[intr0verse]

Interesting idea, but we're talking about an IV drug. @intr0verse , are you sure the oral bioavailability of the liquid solution will be high enough when taken orally?

Yes.

 

[i-d-k]

Interesting idea, but we're talking about an IV drug. @intr0verse , are you sure the oral bioavailability of the liquid solution will be high enough when taken orally?

i phrased that poorly. i meant that i am okay with drinking crushed tablets even if they're not fully dissolved

 

[Mayonaise]

i phrased that poorly. i meant that i am okay with drinking crushed tablets even if they're not fully dissolved

No, you were perfectly clear, my main concern was the oral bioavailability of the solution for injection.
If the tablets do not dissolve fully just add some more water and stir again - too much undissolved tablets/pills could clump up in the stomach and form a nasty mass which is known as pharmacobezoar. This must be avoided because bezoars won't get absorbed by the small intestine and are one of the main reasons for failure when overdosing on pills.
The recommended water quantity is 2-4 oz. (60-120 ml). Of course, the less water you use, the better it is.
But again, we're talking about powdered drugs - since you're using tablets/pills you might need more water. Use room temperature water.

If you have trouble dissolving crushed tablets in water, even though it's not mentioned by the official MAiD guidelines, you can sprinkle them in a small bowl of fat-free yogurt.

My research is almost complete, I will post a thread about it next week. Will warn you when I do

 

[Mayonaise]

Posting my research is taking longer than expected. There's just one more thing I need to research to complete my work, but it's proving to be challenging. I won't post it until it's complete, but since this last part is of no interest to you I could sent my research to you via PM. It will be a long read for you, but it may be helpful - or at least interesting. Can I PM you?

 

[i-d-k]

hi @Mayonaise, i would very much like to see your research. i'm no scientist myself so i probably wouldn't be able to give you any useful feedback but i can let you know how it looks from a layman's perspective

as for my own attempt to obtain ddmaph, it has unfortunately not been going well. i was able to get another 120 digoxin tablets and i'm sure i will be able to get the final 150. however the other 3 medicines seem very hard to obtain. i asked in a dozen pharmacies. none of them had diazepam or morphine. a couple of them had 10mg tablets for amitriptyline but i would need to buy 800 of those which isn't feasible. i will have to try and find another way to acquire these medicines. i underestimated how difficult it would be

 

[Mayonaise]

hi @Mayonaise, i would very much like to see your research. i'm no scientist myself so i probably wouldn't be able to give you any useful feedback but i can let you know how it looks from a layman's perspective

Any feedback from you is appreciated, but that's not my main objective here. My only goal is helping you in your journey, and the MAiD protocol is not an easy one. I researched the method for myself, but if you can benefit from my work as well I can say I'm satisfied. I'll PM you soon

as for my own attempt to obtain ddmaph, it has unfortunately not been going well. i was able to get another 120 digoxin tablets and i'm sure i will be able to get the final 150. however the other 3 medicines seem very hard to obtain. i asked in a dozen pharmacies. none of them had diazepam or morphine. a couple of them had 10mg tablets for amitriptyline but i would need to buy 800 of those which isn't feasible. i will have to try and find another way to acquire these medicines. i underestimated how difficult it would be

I knew it would have been hard, especially with morphine, that's why I suggested synth opioids.

The PPeH suggests using diclazepam instead of diazepam, it should be off-licence, but how much you need isn't specified. This should be researched more.

Amitriptyline can be replaced with Propanolol, but you'd need to switch to the DDMP, which implies longer time to death. I don't think you'd be happy with that.

 

[i-d-k]

the copy of the peaceful pill e-handbook that i found only suggests 50mg of bromazolam as a replacement for diazepam. as far as i can tell, bromazolam isn't even available in pharmacies in my country so that's not really an option

i will continue looking in irl pharmacies for some time and if that doesn't work i will try the dark web. regular web pharmacies are not an option because they all require a prescription and would leave a trail if someone tries to investigate my death

 

[AuroraB]

Interesting thread. I was on digitalis as an infant/toddler/kid due to a heart issue. I took it 2-3 times a day in dropper then pill form for years. Stopped when I was 14 and now I'm 62. Reading this thread just made me so curious. How many "milkshakes" of meds would one have to take? It seems like one would need to drink a gallon or more of dissolved pills. I don't understand how a body could crush/take and not vomit up all this mass??? We haven't heard from the OP in a while. Anyone know how they are doing?

 

[i-d-k]

my plan is to crush the tablets with a mortar and pestle in order to make it easier for my stomach to absorb the medicines
of course this would be much easier if i could get the medicines directly from a compounder but that's simply not possible
i am the op and i am unfortunately very much still alive