Thoughts on the debreather?

[Roger]

My thoughts:

This thing keeps you breathing in the same air that you have just exhaled in a closed loop. At one end are your lungs, at the other end is a sealed container to contain the exhaled air. The mask and sealed container are connected by tubes which have filter containers containing sodium hydroxide.

As you breathe in and out, the same air keeps going round and round, but with the level of oxygen reducing with each breath. The suffocation response which is normally triggered by the presence of carbon dioxide is overcome by passing the exhaled breath through the sodium hydroxide filters - they absorb the CO2. So there is no need to have an elasticated hood which (you hope) will allow expelled CO2 to escape.
Exhaled Nitrogen and Oxygen pass through the filter but the oxygen proportion declines with each breath as the body utilises it, and the nitrogen proportion increases until such time as you pass out from hypoxia.

The only chemical needed is sodium hydroxide, aka caustic soda, or lye. Obviously you have to have enough to absorb the necessary amount of CO2.

If it is the case that the mask may come loose during collapse and (maybe) convulsions, that could be a problem which needs addressing. A full face mask like a service respirator may be a better bet. Certainly, asking for assistance to keep the mask in place puts any assistant at risk of prosecution for assisting.

As to the legality of the device - well, caustic soda is a widely available substance. Maybe supplying the device could be seen as "assisting" - I don't know.

 

[deflagrat]

Just like SN, someone will have to try this thing to see if it's any good and report back to Exit.

 

[Soul]

It's interesting that the guy who was involved in developing the helium bag method didn't use it. I wonder why.

Maybe he had a lung disease and couldn't expel enough co2 for the method to do its thing peacefully. That's a flaw in these inert-gas methods: I can't use them. 8[

 

[Roger]

Maybe he had a lung disease and couldn't expel enough co2 for the method to do its thing peacefully. That's a flaw in these inert-gas methods: I can't use them. 8[

Pulmonary fibrosis

 

[Soul]

Pulmonary fibrosis

Is that what the helium bagman suffered from, @Roger? Or are you just giving an example of a disease that renders these methods unusable for an unfortunate segment of the population?

 

[Roger]

Is that what the helium bagman suffered from, @Roger? Or are you just giving an example of a disease that renders these methods unusable for an unfortunate segment of the population?

I thought that you were knowingly referring to John Hofsess in your post #33

 

[Soul]

I thought that you were knowingly referring to John Hofsess in your post #33

Nope, that was sheer speculation, just because I'd certainly use inert gas if I could.

 

[Crystal Labeija]

Certainly more practical than the Sarco Machine.

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

Looks interesting. I certainly hope these would become available to the bigger crowd in the next decade or so.

My thoughts:

This thing keeps you breathing in the same air that you have just exhaled in a closed loop. At one end are your lungs, at the other end is a sealed container to contain the exhaled air. The mask and sealed container are connected by tubes which have filter containers containing sodium hydroxide.

As you breathe in and out, the same air keeps going round and round, but with the level of oxygen reducing with each breath. The suffocation response which is normally triggered by the presence of carbon dioxide is overcome by passing the exhaled breath through the sodium hydroxide filters - they absorb the CO2. So there is no need to have an elasticated hood which (you hope) will allow expelled CO2 to escape.
Exhaled Nitrogen and Oxygen pass through the filter but the oxygen proportion declines with each breath as the body utilises it, and the nitrogen proportion increases until such time as you pass out from hypoxia.

The only chemical needed is sodium hydroxide, aka caustic soda, or lye. Obviously you have to have enough to absorb the necessary amount of CO2.

If it is the case that the mask may come loose during collapse and (maybe) convulsions, that could be a problem which needs addressing. A full face mask like a service respirator may be a better bet. Certainly, asking for assistance to keep the mask in place puts any assistant at risk of prosecution for assisting.

As to the legality of the device - well, caustic soda is a widely available substance. Maybe supplying the device could be seen as "assisting" - I don't know.

Hol' up! You can literally build this thing at home?
So... If I read you right, it's an exit bag with a chamber for some co2 absorbing substance?

 

[pane]

Looks interesting. I certainly hope these would become available to the bigger crowd in the next decade or so.

Hol' up! You can literally build this thing at home?
So... If I read you right, it's an exit bag with a chamber for some co2 absorbing substance?

Compodulator if you have the aptitude for building things here are three links that provide info about the debreather. The first two links show the modern version. The third ink shows a simpler, earlier version from many years ago:

1) https://exitinternational.net/media/MR30Oct17.pdf

2) https://exitinternational.net/nutech/debreather/

3) https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/07481181003613792

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

Compodulator if you have the aptitude for building things here are three links that provide info about the debreather. The first two links show the modern version. The third ink shows a simpler, earlier version from many years ago:

1) https://exitinternational.net/media/MR30Oct17.pdf

2) https://exitinternational.net/nutech/debreather/

3) https://sci-hub.se/10.1080/07481181003613792

I can kinda see how it works, "kinda" being the key word.
If I understand it right, you breathe into these containers of white stuff, the white stuff absorbs the co2, leaving you with nitrogen and oxygen, which slowly depletes by inflating and deflating the bag?
What I don't understand is how the air is being forced into one side and coming back from the other, unless there's no valve to direct the air...

 

[pane]

I can kinda see how it works, "kinda" being the key word.
If I understand it right, you breathe into these containers of white stuff, the white stuff absorbs the co2, leaving you with nitrogen and oxygen, which slowly depletes by inflating and deflating the bag?
What I don't understand is how the air is being forced into one side and coming back from the other, unless there's no valve to direct the air...

I don't understand how it works either. I think the article in the third link I posted goes over the mechanism behind the debreather device.

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

I don't understand how it works either. I think the article in the third link I posted goes over the mechanism behind the debreather device.

I'm reading it right now trying to understand this "closed loop" concept. The word "loop" suggests some sort of a circle between the left container and the right.
We need some sort of mechanic or something in here.

 

[DreamCatcher]

Interesting concept! I think putting yourself in a sealed airtight space with enough CO2 scrubber such as the proper type of lime would work just fine. I think you can even buy the scrubber stuff from rebreather and diving supply stores too.

Literally just live in that space until you passed out peacefully. That's such a nice idea, and certainly worth looking into.

 

[pane]

View attachment 12375

Just like SN, someone will have to try this thing to see if it's any good and report back to Exit.

But the big question is...will Exit sell this to the general public or only to Exit members?

 

[ArtsyDrawer]

Interesting concept! I think putting yourself in a sealed airtight space with enough CO2 scrubber such as the proper type of lime would work just fine. I think you can even buy the scrubber stuff from rebreather and diving supply stores too.

Literally just live in that space until you passed out peacefully. That's such a nice idea, and certainly worth looking into.

It doesn't look like locking yourself in a cabin with a bucket of CO2 scrubber would be an efficient method. At least, not within a reasonable time. You'd need to spend a hell of a long time in that cabin along with a massive quantity of this CO2 scrubber, which I can't find.

I have found sodium hydroxide, which according to this article is a CO2 scrubber.
I have a generic idea as to how to build this thing, but currently it's hypothetical and is definitely not quiet.

 

[DreamCatcher]

It doesn't look like locking yourself in a cabin with a bucket of CO2 scrubber would be an efficient method. At least, not within a reasonable time. You'd need to spend a hell of a long time in that cabin along with a massive quantity of this CO2 scrubber, which I can't find.

I have found sodium hydroxide, which according to this article is a CO2 scrubber.
I have a generic idea as to how to build this thing, but currently it's hypothetical and is definitely not quiet.

I'm sure the CO2 scrubber needs would scale with the space allotted. But if it's airtight and you have enough scrubber it's guaranteed eventually. The smaller re-breather type machine would be a lot more efficient, but at that point it's comparable to other methods already available, but more options isn't a bad thing.

"Traditionally, scrubbers use soda lime (a mixture of chemicals including calcium hydroxide, sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide) or amines (a derivative of ammonia) to lock onto CO2 molecules.

But in space where every gram counts, lithium hydroxide is used in scrubbers because it has a low molecular weight. When the CO2 reacts with lithium hydroxide it creates create lithium carbonate and water."

A lot of research could be had in this field, that's for sure!

 

[Roger]

This is from somewhere else on the forum:-

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ted_scuba_technology_Death_Studies_34_291-317

 

[freaktech]

View attachment 12375

Just like SN, someone will have to try this thing to see if it's any good and report back to Exit.

I'm suscribed to ppeh and actually no updates about debreather, any mention of ii indeed. There is delayed for some reason?

 

[Hush Sweet Charlotte]

There is mention of it in the last livestream from Amsterdam on 6th July at around 1hr 14 mins. It's embedded in the PPeH at the very back. It doesn't move things forward much though so there isn't a great deal to report. He says they are in the initial testing phase and have a volunteer they're using to measure the oxygen levels.

He mentions the previous major issue of air getting in while unconscious and only says the manufacturer claims the seal on the debreather is airtight, not that they have any evidence of that yet. Then says he doesn't think many people will be interested in it, presumably because of the air seal issue. A bit disheartening, but they are testing it and could come up with positive results. He doesn't say any more and I'm not sure anyone's managed to post the livestream on this site, but it is in the latest PPeH.

 

[how2toGetout]

Is rebreather and debreather the same thing?

I searched all over PPeH (March 2019 version) but couldn't find a keyword 'rebreather' or 'debreather'. Where can i get more information about them?

I have found threads about them on SS, though:
- https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/ppeh-rebreather.19741/
- https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/homemade-debreather.18196/page-2

 

[a_strange_day]

I don't understand, no updates from exit still I just found the Debreather available to buy on one of the websites PN mentionned in a livestream. No sourcing so no direct link right, but here is a hint: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/philip-nitschke-sun-28-april

The domain is old but has been updated recently. Anyone knows anything about it ?

 

[burnedCookie]

I don't understand, no updates from exit still I just found the Debreather available to buy on one of the websites PN mentionned in a livestream. No sourcing so no direct link right, but here is a hint: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/philip-nitschke-sun-28-april

The domain is old but has been updated recently. Anyone knows anything about it ?

View attachment 22238

View attachment 22239View attachment 22233

Thanks. Very interesting since N is everyday harder to get, it could be an interesting alternative. Not much details on the site though, I hope EI will soon give specifics about it.

 

[reto]

I'd worry that the rebreather would still feel smothering

 

[a_strange_day]

Thanks. Very interesting since N is everyday harder to get, it could be an interesting alternative. Not much details on the site though, I hope EI will soon give specifics about it.

Yeah I think it could be a very good alternative. I still have some doubts about how it works though. There is an animation on the website and here if interested. https://www.artstation.com/artwork/0XmJKe

.

All this seems still pretty new so I think/hope they'll release an update soon.

 

[BaronVon]

The January update will bring a new chapter on the Rebreather-Debreather device that Exit has finally taken delivery of.

Exit apologizes for the delay in this update. We realize we have talked about the device for well over 6 months.

The good news is that the creator has given one to Exit to analyze. These results will be published in the third week of January 2020. There will be an update on this in the January PPH

 

[Ἡγησίας]

Thanks a lot for the info, @BaronVon, let's hope it become a reality soon.

 

[NotWhatIExpected]

Oof, I was excited about this, but look at the directions it looks like it could be pretty complicated

Right-2-Die

 

[LittleJem]

I want one of these. Any updates? I really want one. I have tried a Google search but can't find it for sale.

 

[oxymoron]

Apparently this will be available next month, according to the Exit International video? What did you guys think?

What is this?