Discussion Thoughts on numerous failed “attempts”?

[godbody]

I put quotation marks because I'm not talking like, 2 or 4 attempts — I mean like people who say they've attempted suicide over 10, 20, 100 times.
I follow several people in mental health circles who each claim to have between 10 and 100 suicide attempts, even listing the number of attempts in their bio, which is about as cringe as failing to kill yourself 50+ times can be.

do you take these people seriously? am I supposed to take them seriously? like 25 year olds who have 30 suicide attempts to their name.. often the circumstance for an attempt for these people is overdose, cutting, swallowing foreign objects or "having a plan" is sometimes counted. they almost always present to hospital or call an ambo themselves with no prompting from others. Is this purely because it's being witnessed on instagram or am i being a cunt about people genuinely trying to end their lives? I literally done know.

has anyone here got a high amount of suicide attempts that can explain to me how or why you would count every single instance of overdose, self harm or "extreme suicide planning" as an attempt? Or have you truly, with all of your heart, attempted suicide over 10, 20, 30 times?

not trying to gatekeep but uhh.. I can't wrap my head around it. Especially because on all of my attempts or in all my mental health crisis, i've been admitted to the psych ward or only avoided it because of the lack of funding in the system. Or I get mental health services at my door, or arrested & put on 12 months good behaviour… & these ppl r going to the ER like twice a week for attempts that I just can't even see as attempts, merely self harm.
Obviously it's serious & they're hurting, they might even be actively suicidal but are they attempts? is it even my/our place to suggest someone's self harm isn't an attempt if they claim it to be? Am I low empathy? r these ppl culturally appropriating the chronically suicidal? (I'm joking)

anyways I just am curious about this phenomenon.

 

[333s]

i think that the definition of "attempt" varies from one man to another and that explains everything
like 4567 attempts merely says that the person is heavy depressed and/or suicidal and they're wanted to take their life numerous times probably were serious but then SI kicked in or someone "saved" them
it also points that the person is likely to engage in risky activities and often expresses destructive behavior (and you know this from their bio, not from personal experience that may badly traumatize you. pretty important info tho)
talking about going to ER - it depends on the country (state?) and their financial wellness - someone just can afford paying those bills twice a week and ODing is not restricted by law in their location

 

[Ash]

Unless you have access to all the information, including details about the individual's state of mind and thinking at each attempt, then it's just speculation. I'd also say it's nobody else's business.

 

[willitpass]

I think it's a multitude of things. For one thing, what someone considers an attempt enough to count it varies from person to person. For me, I say I've only attempted 3 times because I only count my three very serious attempts that could have actually killed me. If I counted my smaller, impulsive attempts, or my near attempts, it's probably closer to 20. Time frame also matters. Those 20 "attempts" are over a period longer than a decade. If someone has been suicidal for 30 years, they have had a good amount of time rack things up.

I think some of it does come down to a desire for attention, which isn't always a bad thing. Some people are just doing it to manipulate people and don't even actually want to die, sure. But some people are so desperate to be seem, for their pain to be heard, to feel cared for, that they will do anything for it. Those people are hurting horribly and their way of coping is to show it outwardly. Some people are also highly impulsive and feel down for 45 minutes and before they know if they've eaten 70 ibuprofen tablets. There's a lot of things that come down to it.

As far as advertising or making it some weird flex to a support group or on your instagram bio, that I find odd. It's a bit different to talk about it here, as that's what this site is made for, but if someone made it their banner I'd be a bit skeptical. That could come back to the person seeking help outwardly though. A cry for help is still a person suffering, even if you yourself would keep it inside. It isn't wrong to want to feel heard.

 

[godbody]

Unless you have access to all the information, including details about the individual's state of mind and thinking at each attempt, then it's just speculation. I'd also say it's nobody else's business.

I'm not speculating anything, I've given the info I have access to & im trying to make sense of it — it's not necessarily my business but obviously it's something that effects me enough to be curious (in that, I have been invalidated by a GP who has "people who have attempted suicide over 10 times" as an excuse to not refer me to a certain service

& also because of the way these repeat patients are treated compared to my first attempt or other self harm issues I've had; they are more likely to be released into the community or to dodge long-term stays in the ward. I'm curious about it.

I think it's a multitude of things. For one thing, what someone considers an attempt enough to count it varies from person to person. For me, I say I've only attempted 3 times because I only count my three very serious attempts that could have actually killed me. If I counted my smaller, impulsive attempts, or my near attempts, it's probably closer to 20. Time frame also matters. Those 20 "attempts" are over a period longer than a decade. If someone has been suicidal for 30 years, they have had a good amount of time rack things up.

I think some of it does come down to a desire for attention, which isn't always a bad thing. Some people are just doing it to manipulate people and don't even actually want to die, sure. But some people are so desperate to be seem, for their pain to be heard, to feel cared for, that they will do anything for it. Those people are hurting horribly and their way of coping is to show it outwardly. Some people are also highly impulsive and feel down for 45 minutes and before they know if they've eaten 70 ibuprofen tablets. There's a lot of things that come down to it.

As far as advertising or making it some weird flex to a support group or on your instagram bio, that I find odd. It's a bit different to talk about it here, as that's what this site is made for, but if someone made it their banner I'd be a bit skeptical. That could come back to the person seeking help outwardly though. A cry for help is still a person suffering, even if you yourself would keep it inside. It isn't wrong to want to feel heard.

I also don't want to in any way seem like I think attention seeking is inherently bad, I know the feeling these people have had, but I just don't count my self-harm that they would count as attempts, so I guess it just confuses me. Have hard time putting myself in others shoes but I have been there (impulsive, attempting, presenting to ER voluntarily, etc) just not regularly

 

[UKscotty]

They have a different definition of attempt to what's normal.

To me an attempt is a rope around the neck, poison taken, gas turned on etc. Then didn't work because it wasn't setup right.

Being about to CTB then telling someone or stopping is not an attempt in my opinion.

All just depends how you define attempt.

 

[godbody]

They have a different definition of attempt to what's normal.

To me an attempt is a rope around the neck, poison taken, gas turned on etc. Then didn't work because it wasn't setup right.

Being about to CTB then telling someone or stopping is not an attempt in my opinion.

All just depends how you define attempt.

I guess I'm curious why some people count things that are… not very likely to kill you… as attempts

I wonder if these are attempts at emotional connection from disregulated ppl, some sort of physical adrenaline junkie shit, over-exaggerating (subconsciously) the likelihood of death, or are they counting these purely based on feeling behind it, not the action?

 

[Forveleth]

am i being a cunt about people genuinely trying to end their lives?
not trying to gatekeep... I just can't even see as attempts, merely self harm.

I think you answered your own question.

is it even my/our place to suggest someone's self harm isn't an attempt if they claim it to be?

And there's the solution.

 

[rozeske]

Let them cope through their pain and suffering however way they want to, be it for self harm, impulsive, uneducated, looking for help, dying attempt..........whatever the reason it has it's own explanation. Are we now seriously accusing suicidals for not dying efficiently and quickly? It's that same nonsense you must not want to die or you are not serious enough about it crap!

 

[timetodie24]

Whatever people want to call it is up to them. It doesn't affect me. Regardless of how likely it actually is to work, if someone chooses to do something that they believe will kill them or even 'just' harm them then they must be in serious pain. I think what defines an attempt is what the person intends and expects to happen. For example, they may take something that you know is only 0.2% chance of working, yet they believe it will kill them or they think it might kill them and don't care what happens, that's an attempt. Some people will class going onto a bridge with intent an attempt even if they back out, others only if they climb over the barrier , some would argue only attempt if actually jump.
My point is it's subjective and what matters is that persons thoughts/feelings/intent. I don't care how others define it, i only care about making sure my attempt is a success .

I know what you mean about people comparing numbers of attempts and self harm. There can be a competitive online culture. 'Grippy sock tik tok' is on another level. But that's a different argument and clearly all those engaging in it are seriously struggling, they should be taken seriously too and supported if they want it. And even SH that doesn't seem that dangerous can go wrong and end in death without intent so definition doesn't change that.

 

[cemetorium]

Anything that a person does with the intention of ending their life counts as an attempt and should be taken seriously. I've lost count of how many times I've attempted but I was serious about wanting to die regardless of the method(s) I used.

 

[Abyssal]

I try to think but nothing happens

 

[Praestat_Mori]

First of all, I do not want to invalidate anyone's feelings.

In my case I would not want to attempt xx amounts of time to die - the first attempt MUST be successful in any case. I would see it as the biggest failure in my life if my personal attempt failed. It would be so agonizing and embarrassing, I would not want to do through it.

I understand that most attempts fail bc they are not properly planned, people are being found too early, OTC meds or non-lethal prescription meds are being used out of desperation. I would assume that some of the attempts are really only a cry for help. That is even more saddening when it is not being heard for so many times.

Honestly somehow I admire people who've attempted so many times and failed and how strong they are. When I was very suicidal and I had my method ready it didn't even come to an actual attempt (in my case lighting the charcoal and sealing the br) - I only vented and didn't do anything in end although I had such a good chance and more than a week of time for several attempts if one didn't work.

not trying to gatekeep but uhh.. I can't wrap my head around it. Especially because on all of my attempts or in all my mental health crisis, i've been admitted to the psych ward or only avoided it because of the lack of funding in the system. Or I get mental health services at my door, or arrested & put on 12 months good behaviour… & these ppl r going to the ER like twice a week for attempts that I just can't even see as attempts, merely self harm.
Obviously it's serious & they're hurting, they might even be actively suicidal but are they attempts? is it even my/our place to suggest someone's self harm isn't an attempt if they claim it to be? Am I low empathy? r these ppl culturally appropriating the chronically suicidal? (I'm joking)

Again, I do not want to invalidate anyone's feelings. But it is well known that SH and cutting wrists, cutting veins and the like and "bleeding out" have a success rate or 1-2%. There are ways to die by cutting but they're extraordinary cruel and can hardly be performed by ones own hands. But those ways would be successful - they are close to decapitating.

My personal thoughts on many attempts: I personally do not want to have more than 1 attempt after I made my last and final decision bc anything else will inevitably lead to more suffering and pain but not to the desired relief.

 

[CountingSeconds]

A suicide attempt is the intention to end one's life, whether that ends through failure of method, being found, or calling for help. But ultimately it's semantics. It makes no difference to me how others define it and I would never question their opinions.

I understand the genuineness and curiosity behind your question, but we must be careful with such considerations, otherwise we run the risk of invalidating the opinions and feelings of others who may already feel isolated.