thought this snippet from a dialectical behavioral therapy workbook was funny :3

[dustbiter]

this is under a big list of "Pleasurable Activities"

 

[OrcWitch]

That is funny. It almost seems like whoever wrote it was in a rush and didn't double check their work.

Haircuts are a blast if you don't have social anxiety. I am lucky to not have social anxiety.

 

[motel rooms]

@Flippy @sue1984 DBT strikes again!
Wave your brain bye-bye & buy, buy, buy! Crippled by depression? Go into debt buying crap you don't really need, you're guaranteed to succeed!
Is this "workbook" sponsored by Amazon?

 

[Flippy]

@Flippy @sue1984 DBT strikes again!
Wave your brain bye-bye & buy, buy, buy! Crippled by depression? Go into debt buying crap you don't really need, you're guaranteed to succeed!
Is this "workbook" sponsored by Amazon?

A list of pleasurable activities! I mean, come on, it's pretty obvious really. I suppose it's easy to think too conventionally, but it's the "call a suicide hotline" option isn't it? I mean have been wondering how Sue has been doing since "the move" and it has been a while since I last called and got through to her.

They always have such good "on hold" music too! Last time it was by a group called "Van Halan", it started with a good synth sound and as I recall, it was very motivational! It was the perfect accompaniment to completing my "puzzle with a lot of pieces".

Honestly! I wish people would stop confusing mental illness with cognitive deficiency!

 

[motel rooms]

Honestly! I wish people would stop confusing mental illness with cognitive deficiency!

It's truly un-fucking-believable what passes for therapy...

 

[Flippy]

It's truly un-fucking-believable what passes for therapy...

It has kinda made me want to go and get a haircut....so........there's that. :-/

EDIT

Money, money, money! Is American express sponsoring "feeling shit" these days?

Eastern Mysticism be like "money won't buy you happiness"

Western Therapists be like "Feel depressed and you haven't got money to pay the bills or eat? SHOPPING DAAHRLING!!!!"

ANOTHER EDIT

"American Express!!!! Don't catch the bus without it!"

I wouldn't be surprised if I see this in my "personalised ads" soon!

 

[Pluto]

But it's true.

I am finding it pleasurable buying N from D on the internet.

 

[Flippy]

But it's true.

I am finding it pleasurable buying N from D on the internet.

Yikes! I'm not sure that's what they had in mind when they wrote it!

But I have to say, nothing works better for depression than emerging from a boutique clothes store clutching bundles of those posh paper bags with string handles and a couple of hat boxes. Sometimes I admit, I splurge a bit, so I just have Jeeves pick me up in the "Rolls". Once my purchases are safely on board my hands are free for some more retail therapy.

MoNEeeeEEe FiXeS evERyThInG!

 

[Rogue Proxy]

Honestly! I wish people would stop confusing mental illness with cognitive deficiency!

The mundane masses and their trainers are the ones that are actually cognitively deficient. This could explain how they gain "therapeutic benefits" from such frivolous, and even detrimental, activities.

It's truly un-fucking-believable what passes for therapy...

Anything pulled straight out of a mental health enforcer's ass, including their actual feces, could be totted as therapy, regardless of inanity or toxicity.

However, mental health enforcers promoting consumerism could be explained by their primary goal of instilling conformity into "disobedient" and "broken" individuals. Once the individual is "fixed", they can help maintain the economy through labor, spending more money, and even breeding.

 

[silent staring void]

I got one of these twice, the first time it was in the psych ward and it was probably the exact same thing that OP got.
The second time was in regular talk therapy, and they probably assumed that the patients didn't have that terrible mental issues anymore, because it literally included things like "yell at somebody", "drink alcohol" and "have sex".

(Not to be a hater but I always liked those lists. I think they can be good advice for particular people, in particular situations.)

 

[Starryeyes]

@Flippy @sue1984 DBT strikes again!
Wave your brain bye-bye & buy, buy, buy! Crippled by depression? Go into debt buying crap you don't really need, you're guaranteed to succeed!
Is this "workbook" sponsored by Amazon?

Haha thanks for the tag wouldn't of seen this , don't really venture to the recovery. Probably should tho. I have my next session Friday , going to be really fun telling her I can't do the leaf thing again. I'm fucking allergic to trees anyway

 

[Flippy]

I'm fucking allergic to trees anyway

I think this "therapy" may have overlooked people with Aphantasia. Not everyone can imagine silly little leaves on rivers! "Typical Mind Fallacy" strikes again!

 

[Lost Magic]

What if a person doesn't have any hair to cut? Do they just get a head massage instead

 

[Flippy]

What if a person doesn't have any hair to cut? Do they just get a head massage instead

Buy a wig or toupee?

 

[Rogue Proxy]

Buy a wig or toupee?

Get a small furry (or feathery) animal to sit on your head?

 

[Seiba]

This is always the case. Even in a suicide thoughts workbook by a PHD had similar situations. Suggested dating, drawing a picture of yourself being loved by others, suggested in the book itself you are loved. Pic related are some things from it. Demotivates you to try with these people when they reveal what they are actually capable of and it's very little. They have no special answer or fundamental way of working with you against suicide for a better life, only helping people who are overwhelmed and simply need to focus on the life they already enjoy but get upset with. Before getting into it a decent amount of PHDs also joined in to talk about how good it was, one of them being one of the leading researchers into suicide prevention.

Sorry if it's out of order, screenshotting is a little tedious and are so is organizing with odd file names.
Also forgot, but the bit about simply "overlooking" people who would actually support you is a bit of joke, to me at least. I've overlooked nothing, I was unschooled with no education with a mother who threatened with me a psych ward and hit me with the "people in africa have it worse than you" fallacy when I tried leaving at sixteen, later she blamed it on teenage hormones and then never brought up anything related to suicide again.

I was on the regular screamed at, only a small break with that when I attempted for a about a week. Friends, family, and the fucking clergy of all people are not good for talking about suicide. I find myself not desiring interaction much on the internet or meat world regardless -- having grown used to lack of interaction and just lacking things to say to others. But there's obviously others other than myself, such as people like KuriGohan who have been let down time and time again by others including the "physicians" that are suggested in this image.

 

[Flippy]

This is always the case. Even in a suicide thoughts workbook by a PHD had similar situations. Suggested dating, drawing a picture of yourself being loved by others, suggested in the book itself you are loved. Pic related are some things from it. Demotivates you to try with these people when they reveal what they are actually capable of and it's very little. They have no special answer or fundamental way of working with you against suicide for a better life, only helping people who are overwhelmed and simply need to focus on the life they already enjoy but get upset with. Before getting into it a decent amount of PHDs also joined in to talk about how good it was, one of them being one of the leading researchers into suicide prevention.

Sorry if it's out of order, screenshotting is a little tedious and are so is organizing with odd file names.
Also forgot, but the bit about simply "overlooking" people who would actually support you is a bit of joke, to me at least. I've overlooked nothing, I was unschooled with no education with a mother who threatened with me a psych ward and hit me with the "people in africa have it worse than you" fallacy when I tried leaving at sixteen, later she blamed it on teenage hormones and then never brought up anything related to suicide again.

I was on the regular screamed at, only a small break with that when I attempted for a about a week. Friends, family, and the fucking clergy of all people are not good for talking about suicide. I find myself not desiring interaction much on the internet or meat world regardless -- having grown used to lack of interaction and just lacking things to say to others. But there's obviously others other than myself, such as people like KuriGohan who have been let down time and time again by others including the "physicians" that are suggested in this image.

Hmmm, thanks for posting the screen grabs. Its weird reading through it. Half of the suggestions would not be even slightly appropriate for me as they simply aren't things I'm interested in. I have a wide range of things that would call hobbies, they appear quite esoteric to others apparently. I've quite a long list of things I could be doing but I feel like shit doing them.

The other issue is that because what I say I'd like to be doing isn't on their list, I basically get accused of "wrong think". There's the usual "oh but doing these things will make you feel better". Well no, they may make some increasingly hypothetical person feel better, but not me.

I cant seem to get them to understand that when I'm right in the throws of severe depression, I may be able to physically *do* something for a while but I don't *feel* good or better doing it. Insisting on it is counterproductive because I feel worse about my inability to enjoy it. Then my mood will eventually climb high enough, just enough to allow me to enjoy something a little but it seems, for now this only lasts a short time compared to say 3-4 years ago.

I think I get it, I should not be "so unusual" . Apparently only Cindi Lauper is permitted to do that.

 

[Seiba]

Hmmm, thanks for posting the screen grabs. Its weird reading through it. Half of the suggestions would not be even slightly appropriate for me as they simply aren't things I'm interested in. I have a wide range of things that would call hobbies, they appear quite esoteric to others apparently. I've quite a long list of things I could be doing but I feel like shit doing them.

The other issue is that because what I say I'd like to be doing isn't on their list, I basically get accused of "wrong think". There's the usual "oh but doing these things will make you feel better". Well no, they may make some increasingly hypothetical person feel better, but not me.

I cant seem to get them to understand that when I'm right in the throws of severe depression, I may be able to physically *do* something for a while but I don't *feel* good or better doing it. Insisting on it is counterproductive because I feel worse about my inability to enjoy it. Then my mood will eventually climb high enough, just enough to allow me to enjoy something a little but it seems, for now this only lasts a short time compared to say 3-4 years ago.

I think I get it, I should not be "so unusual" . Apparently only Cindi Lauper is permitted to do that.

It seems their assumption is fundamentally the capacity for enjoyment is there, but just overwritten by a bit of pain and just simply trying these things over and over until you've exhausted the list will unlock enjoyment. It's not shocking to me it wouldn't be appropriate for you, it's likely not for many on the forum with long term issues or issues of severity.

 

[Flippy]

It seems their assumption is fundamentally the capacity for enjoyment is there, but just overwritten by a bit of pain and just simply trying these things over and over until you've exhausted the list will unlock enjoyment. It's not shocking to me it wouldn't be appropriate for you, it's likely not for many on the forum with long term issues or issues of severity.

I totally agree, what you say seems to tally with their rhetoric!

Perhaps that's my problem? I just need to see life like an XBOX game and eventually I will be cured? Shame I can't enjoy XBOX either! Lol!

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED You've cured mental illness! You got a TROPHY! NOBEL PRIZE!

 

[Bleak]

Laughing at ridiculous, out of touch self help stuff is a pleasurable activity I guess.

 

[NumbItAll]

This is always the case. Even in a suicide thoughts workbook by a PHD had similar situations. Suggested dating, drawing a picture of yourself being loved by others, suggested in the book itself you are loved. Pic related are some things from it. Demotivates you to try with these people when they reveal what they are actually capable of and it's very little. They have no special answer or fundamental way of working with you against suicide for a better life, only helping people who are overwhelmed and simply need to focus on the life they already enjoy but get upset with. Before getting into it a decent amount of PHDs also joined in to talk about how good it was, one of them being one of the leading researchers into suicide prevention.

Sorry if it's out of order, screenshotting is a little tedious and are so is organizing with odd file names.
Also forgot, but the bit about simply "overlooking" people who would actually support you is a bit of joke, to me at least. I've overlooked nothing, I was unschooled with no education with a mother who threatened with me a psych ward and hit me with the "people in africa have it worse than you" fallacy when I tried leaving at sixteen, later she blamed it on teenage hormones and then never brought up anything related to suicide again.

I was on the regular screamed at, only a small break with that when I attempted for a about a week. Friends, family, and the fucking clergy of all people are not good for talking about suicide. I find myself not desiring interaction much on the internet or meat world regardless -- having grown used to lack of interaction and just lacking things to say to others. But there's obviously others other than myself, such as people like KuriGohan who have been let down time and time again by others including the "physicians" that are suggested in this image.

Wow, this list of "emotional uplifts" is so incredibly enlightening. I never realized all these Activities were out there just waiting to be done. I could have avoided 15 years of depression by simply listening to a podcast or putting on my favorite outfit!

 

[motel rooms]

What if a person doesn't have any hair to cut? Do they just get a head massage instead

I'm not bald, but I just get head instead.

 

[Sherri]

I actually bought a 800 piece Lego thing this year, let's see if I still have patience to finish, oh and maybe call the hotline like you said ,also a hair cut and a leg wax.

 

[Starryeyes]

I think this "therapy" may have overlooked people with Aphantasia. Not everyone can imagine silly little leaves on rivers! "Typical Mind Fallacy" strikes again!

Didn't even know there was a name for it

 

[motel rooms]

a leg wax.

Ouch. Sorry I can't respond to your comment in the astrology fan's thread on the main forum, they blocked me the second I suggested they ask questions not related to suicide in Offtopic

 

[Sherri]

Ouch. Sorry I can't respond to your comment in the astrology fan's thread on the main forum, they blocked me the second I suggested they ask questions not related to suicide in Offtopic

Really??? Talk about freedom of speech

 

[Starryeyes]

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. That is in my new work sheet. I hope the therapist doesn't say that to my face tomoz

 

[Rogue Proxy]

also a hair cut and a leg wax.

You just gave me an idea for a more satisfying, therapeutic activity: tying down the assigned mental health enforcer, stripping them nude, and removing every hair off their body with duct tape. Bonus points for covering one of their ears with the business end of a megaphone and shouting phrases like "Getting any therapeutic benefits, yet?" or "Why are you screaming? You're the one choosing to feel pain!" after ripping the hair out of their more sensitive bits.

 

[LastLoveLetter]

I am glad there is a thread about this. It truly is ludicrous what can be cobbled together and presented as a viable, therapeutic methodology. There were some techniques in DBT that I personally found helpful. Aspects of DBT were useful for a time, but for me it was like putting a plaster on a gaping wound.

DBT provides coping strategies (including highly questionable ones), but it doesn't adequately address deep trauma, and much of the language is gaslighting and infantilising. This is a crucial consideration, since the target demographic for this modality is primarily individuals with BPD/EUPD. Research has found that cluster B personality disorders - especially BPD - have the strongest link with a history of childhood trauma.

I remember when I facilitated peer-led DBT workshops for a support group I used to run several years ago, and I had to drastically rewrite most of the content in order to present some basic strategies and tools without the sanctimonious, patronising undertone and hogwash.

Aside from the snippets of useful information I gleaned (which are only applicable to some contexts - and a lack of context and nuance is a huge problem with this modality), DBT as a therapeutic intervention caused me a lot of harm. It was essentially glorified brainwashing, especially sections such as check the facts and radical acceptance.

I was never "throwing tantrums" (as written in the official handbook by Linehan - see the screenshot below) about my circumstances in the first place. For therapists to suggest that I could simply "radically accept" my situation and that this would improve my life was - and still is - nonsense. I was manipulated by my therapist at the time for experiencing and expressing valid emotions, deliberately tricked into "using the skills" when it was not appropriate, and placed in positions a patient should not be in as a way of "testing my progress."



The underlying message is "You're the problem - you need to think differently, feel differently, behave differently and radically accept your reality." Like with many other modalities (notably its cousin, CBT), I felt that DBT twists everything into a "you" problem, but sprinkles in a little bit of validation (or what Linehan considers to be validation) to soften the tone. Linehan herself said - during her seminars in the 90s - that validation provided the "sugar-coating" to help the "distasteful medicine" of CBT go down. That language in itself is problematic - and very telling.

In keeping with the original post, here are some segments that I found amusingly terrible:


(Listed as a "Pleasant Event", with no other clarifying context)

 

[Snake of Eden]

View attachment 84566
View attachment 84567 (Listed as a "Pleasant Event", with no other clarifying context)

tree hugging does what exactly? What taking children places even mean?