Discussion This is why (genuinely) suicidal people don't get help

[easywayout]

Which country are you from? Also, while that may be better than being billed, the experience of losing one's freedom even for a short time can still negatively impact said person.

I've come to accept it, they just want to stop people from killing themselves. Ultimately that means putting you in a building and monitoring you for a while. For me the meds didn't do much but i met some cool people and in retrospect it wasn't so bad.

 

[Empty Smile]

This thread makes me glad i don't live in the US. When i was hospitalized it was free.

Here in the US, it's all about money. They don't care how they get it, and whether you can afford it or not. And if it comes down to it, they'll talk to their lawyer and have your wages garnished.

 

[Squiddy]

Yeah this system needs a major overhaul for sure. I don't have insurance currently and if I get hit by a massive medical bill, it'll only further push me to CTB.


Yeah, it's annoying when people are trying to talk down thoses who have already made up their mind and even goes as far as to force intervention against those people.


That's really fucked up and I hope you were able to get some justice later in life or something.


That would set me off towards actively CTB'ing and making sure I did as soon as (conveniently) possible. $8K is almost an entire semester of graduate studies, just to put that into perspective.

Yeah it is. One reason I want to ctb

 

[passenger27]

I've been seeing psychiatrists and therapists over the last 18, going on 19 years, and I can honestly say I want to CTB more now than then (to be fair, a lot of shit has happened between then and now, but still). I guess I'm still waiting on that spark of enlightenment they promise you, but it's really all a joke. Maybe I just see them out of habit, I really don't know anymore. I take my maintenance drugs because they tell me they'll work, then they don't, then it's a new drug that doesn't work. I gave up on therapists long ago. Tbh, I find this site to be more therapeutic than an actual therapist because people on here are actually living the pain, not getting some obscure "understanding" from a person who's gone to school to get a job that pays decent. That's not help or caring, it's called taking your money.

 

[Nuggest]

I've been seeing psychiatrists and therapists over the last 18, going on 19 years, and I can honestly say I want to CTB more now than then (to be fair, a lot of shit has happened between then and now, but still). I guess I'm still waiting on that spark of enlightenment they promise you, but it's really all a joke. Maybe I just see them out of habit, I really don't know anymore. I take my maintenance drugs because they tell me they'll work, then they don't, then it's a new drug that doesn't work. I gave up on therapists long ago. Tbh, I find this site to be more therapeutic than an actual therapist because people on here are actually living the pain, not getting some obscure "understanding" from a person who's gone to school to get a job that pays decent. That's not help or caring, it's called taking your money.

You wont find enlightenment, because you already are. What 'they' are trying to achieve is to return you to a state of blissful ignorance.
That's why I gave up reaching out to anyone after my first hospital stay, they don't understand - especially psychiatrists who merely see you as a defective machine which can be fixed because, apparently, all the despise for life is just due to lack of chemical components in the brain..

 

[mayflower]

Excellent post and one i am very interested in.
I am planning ctb but have a son and feel i should try and feel differently. I spoke to a friend about my suicidal thoughts but they just pretend the conversation never happened.
Ive made a doctors appointment to talk to the doctor who treated me after my last attempt. No doubt nothing will come of it but at least I will have tried.

 

[SenMorta]

The irony is, is that a lot of the time they only actually spur it on.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

This thread is a response to the remark "He/she should have reached out!", "He/she should have gotten help!" The irony of the situation is that suicidal people (especially those that are serious) do NOT reach out for help because:

1) They are quickly dismissed and shamed for even considering suicide. They are called selfish and are then reprimanded or even told that they are "wrong" for even considering suicide to begin with. In other words, persecuted and bullied for being suicidal and considering suicide to begin with. When the suicidal mentions about suicide, people talk to them as if they are like a 'child' or someone who doesn't understand what he/she is doing. That is incredibly disrespectful and degrading towards the suicidal.
2) They want to open up to discuss about suicide, but even then, they are unable to as most people deem suicide to be a result of mental illness, an irrational decision, and generally many misconception of it. Many people do NOT wish to listen and think about what the suicidal people have to say, but instead push and project their own agenda unto them. This generally becomes a one-sided conversation.
3) They get bombarded with lots of pro-life, guilt-trips, and other blind optimism, and even toxic positivity (always positive regards of circumstance, situation). Generally uplifting and unhelpful platitudes that do nothing to better their situation. Of course, should the suicidal decide to speak up, they are then shamed into silence and met with hostility because it hurts the feelings of the platitude pusher or the non-suicidal people.
4) They are threatened with possibly 'forced intervention' (this includes, but are not limited to: forced treatment against their will or consent, forced hospitalization against their will (involuntary commitment), treated like a prisoner, and (in the US) billed for services that they never agreed to (was coerced into, made under duress), and finally loss of rights, poor treatment by the community, loss of certain career and professional opportunities as a result.)
5) They have tried all sorts of solutions (especially the genuinely suicidal) and even carefully, rationally thought through their decision before arriving at the decision to CTB. It is usually not an impulsive decision, but a carefully planned, thoroughly prepared decision. More often than not, it is not only because of any singular reason or cause. It is a multitude of reasons and causes that culminates into one final, permanent decision.

If people want suicidal people to open up and be honest, then there are a few things they must do:

1) Stop shaming, guilt tripping suicidal people into life and consider the suicidal's point of view and suffering.
2) Have an open (honest) discussion without pushing and projecting one's biases (pro-life, life is good) onto the suicidal person.
3) Stop trying to push toxic positivity and other uplifting words which are generally unhelpful towards the suicidal.
4) Abolish forced intervention, involuntary commitment (only reserved for those who are a "danger to others, NOT danger to oneself").
5) Accept that the suicidal has already tried and exhausted all the options that he/she has and that rational suicides are a thing.

So until then, unless society and government makes these changes, then the (genuinely) suicidal will NEVER open up, reach out, or seek help mainly due to all the possible consequences that follow if/should the suicidal open up and be honest about his/her situation. I like to think about Marilyn Manson's response to the news media when asked about what he would say to the Columbine Shooters and Manson responded with "I wouldn't say a single word to them. I'd listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did."

Note: I don't condone the mass shootings in Columbine or any acts of violence or mass killings. I am merely citing an example loosely.

Loosely applying his quote, it illustrates a parallel that suicidal people are pushed to the edge and because no one really "listened" to them without judgment or threat of horrible consequences, the suicidal people eventually ended up going through with suicide. Had society and people actually listened to them, abolished cruel and unusual treatment and make help voluntary (instead of forcing it down on people), then there would be less suicides. For example, on this platform, people are allowed to talk about suicide, euthanasia, the right to die, and including suicide methods (for those wishing to CTB) without censorship and/or other consequences (concerns and forced intervention), it has helped people who are already in a very bad place, very vulnerable a place to be heard, be (genuinely) understood, and sometimes, that might just be enough for people to recover and/or feel at peace.

I know many of us already know this, so I may be preaching to the choice, but I think this would be an interesting discussion. These are just my findings and opinion as well as explanation on WHY (genuinely) suicidal people do NOT reach out for help. If anyone has anything else that isn't covered or wants to give their input on this, feel free to.

Bravo...this should be published.

Which country are you from? Also, while that may be better than being billed, the experience of losing one's freedom even for a short time can still negatively impact said person.


I don't think that every serious suicidal doesn't seek help/tell anyone, but a large amount of them don't especially for fear of intervention. While yes, there are people who have dropped hints or told some people who are close to them their plans, they soon regret the aftermath of intervention or having their plans or attempts foiled. Also could you explain "why" it is ridiculous?

My brother killed himself. I knew he was going to, because he stayed away from me for 6 months. He never told a soul.

 

[HereToday]

I don't think that every serious suicidal doesn't seek help/tell anyone, but a large amount of them don't especially for fear of intervention. While yes, there are people who have dropped hints or told some people who are close to them their plans, they soon regret the aftermath of intervention or having their plans or attempts foiled. Also could you explain "why" it is ridiculous?

It's ridiculous because telling people and being serious about it has no correlation whatsoever. I've told people and I'm certainly serious about it, as will be proven when I do it in a few days

 

[S1mpleme]

Thank you for your opinion, I wish everyone were as smart as you. I don't ask for help because I don't want, even if there are people that may understand.

 

[TAW122]

@Empty Smile In that case, having one's wages garnished on top of having all the other consequences would only push the person closer to CTB'ing.

@passenger27 Exactly, they are just trying to trick the masses into thinking there is hope (oftenly false hope) and then when the masses fall for their ruse, they would swoop in and take money from the masses, leaving the masses' with their pockets lighter and problems still there.

@Nuggest Yeah, that is sadly true. These professionals only wish to zombify and stupefy people into compliance.

@mayflower Thanks and I'm sorry that most people aren't helpful. There isn't really much real "help" out there and yes, you really tried and it's not your fault.

@SenMorta True, if there was a conspiracy, this would make a good one because everything about suicide prevention is just about keeping the person alive, milking them for all their worth, and then leaving them hanging.

@poof Sorry to hear about your brother, and I believe he is at peace now and no longer suffering.

@HereToday I see and sorry if it came off as a broad sweeping generalization, never meant it that way.

@S1mpleme Thanks for the compliment. I don't consider myself super smart, but I do exercise quite a bit of logical and critical thinking. I am also skeptical and question things a lot.

 

[purplemoon]

@Empty Smile In that case, having one's wages garnished on top of having all the other consequences would only push the person closer to CTB'ing.

@passenger27 Exactly, they are just trying to trick the masses into thinking there is hope (oftenly false hope) and then when the masses fall for their ruse, they would swoop in and take money from the masses, leaving the masses' with their pockets lighter and problems still there.

@Nuggest Yeah, that is sadly true. These professionals only wish to zombify and stupefy people into compliance.

@mayflower Thanks and I'm sorry that most people aren't helpful. There isn't really much real "help" out there and yes, you really tried and it's not your fault.

@SenMorta True, if there was a conspiracy, this would make a good one because everything about suicide prevention is just about keeping the person alive, milking them for all their worth, and then leaving them hanging.

@poof Sorry to hear about your brother, and I believe he is at peace now and no longer suffering.

@HereToday I see and sorry if it came off as a broad sweeping generalization, never meant it that way.

@S1mpleme Thanks for the compliment. I don't consider myself super smart, but I do exercise quite a bit of logical and critical thinking. I am also skeptical and question things a lot.

You definitely have keen insights, and I like how you made it all so nice & concise. You are spot on!

I especially liked your sayings on your profile line, my favorite is
Quality of life over the quantity of life. The greatest freedom one can have is the right to choose when and how to die.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

@Empty Smile In that case, having one's wages garnished on top of having all the other consequences would only push the person closer to CTB'ing.

@passenger27 Exactly, they are just trying to trick the masses into thinking there is hope (oftenly false hope) and then when the masses fall for their ruse, they would swoop in and take money from the masses, leaving the masses' with their pockets lighter and problems still there.

@Nuggest Yeah, that is sadly true. These professionals only wish to zombify and stupefy people into compliance.

@mayflower Thanks and I'm sorry that most people aren't helpful. There isn't really much real "help" out there and yes, you really tried and it's not your fault.

@SenMorta True, if there was a conspiracy, this would make a good one because everything about suicide prevention is just about keeping the person alive, milking them for all their worth, and then leaving them hanging.

@poof Sorry to hear about your brother, and I believe he is at peace now and no longer suffering.

@HereToday I see and sorry if it came off as a broad sweeping generalization, never meant it that way.

@S1mpleme Thanks for the compliment. I don't consider myself super smart, but I do exercise quite a bit of logical and critical thinking. I am also skeptical and question things a lot.

Absolutely Away. Thank you. ((Hugs))

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Yeah, I tried to reach out four years ago. I got judged, drugged, marginalised and discriminated against. Now I'm in a worse situation because I asked for help. Unfortunately, you just can't understand this unless you've been there. Four years ago, I wouldn't have been able to understand someone in my position and would have come out with the same old crap and then left them to it.

 

[SenMorta]

@SenMorta True, if there was a conspiracy, this would make a good one because everything about suicide prevention is just about keeping the person alive, milking them for all their worth, and then leaving them hanging.

It's not a loopy conspiracy, makes perfect sense and I can imagine it being the case for sure to why euthanasia is frowned upon - medication = money. Why should someone live a hollow live high on opiates and other fiends for the profit of some pharmaceutical company?

I also think it is the lack of understanding on the part of decent people though. How can someone understand if they have never TRULY reached that point. It can be frustrating hearing people you know haven't truly been suicidal pretend and try to relate. I know it is just born out of care for many but there tends to be tell-tale signs to me.

 

[Mizzmini45]

Here in the US, it's all about money. They don't care how they get it, and whether you can afford it or not. And if it comes down to it, they'll talk to their lawyer and have your wages garnished.

Thank god someone said it

 

[Pan]

Yeah this system needs a major overhaul for sure. I don't have insurance currently and if I get hit by a massive medical bill, it'll only further push me to CTB.


Yeah, it's annoying when people are trying to talk down thoses who have already made up their mind and even goes as far as to force intervention against those people.


That's really fucked up and I hope you were able to get some justice later in life or something.


That would set me off towards actively CTB'ing and making sure I did as soon as (conveniently) possible. $8K is almost an entire semester of graduate studies, just to put that into perspective.

I firmly believe that this country (USA) will experience a violent revolution soon. People are getting fed up with high medical bills, related costs, housing. And all for what, I ask you? For the dubious "privilege" of being able to shop at your local convenience store? I see so many people groaning under the stress and pressure. Meanwhile, the government wonders why the ctb rate is rising. Their response? Sponsor yet another "study of the situation". People need Rel͏i͏e͏f NOW.

 

[SOL3HIRO]

I have really tried to have conversations with a few of my friends and my therapist about this topic. Every time, my friends constantly guilt trip me and my therapist tries to swerve away from the topic. I have yet to find anyone irl who genuinely understands. All I can do is hope until I ctb

 

[TAW122]

I firmly believe that this country (USA) will experience a violent revolution soon. People are getting fed up with high medical bills, related costs, housing. And all for what, I ask you? For the dubious "privilege" of being able to shop at your local convenience store? I see so many people groaning under the stress and pressure. Meanwhile, the government wonders why the ctb rate is rising. Their response? Sponsor yet another "study of the situation". People need Rel͏i͏e͏f NOW.

I'm not sure if or when, and while I am not condoning violence nor encouraging violence, I would not be surprised either if it did happen. Hypothetically, if that did happen, there is a part of me that hopes either of two outcomes: Either things get better (which will get a lot worse before things start to get good again, thus changing everything about society - which is unlikely) or I die while the revolution occurs (or mid-revolution), things push me over the edge and I CTB. Either two outcomes, I see it as a win-win because either way my suffering would end. As far as the "study of the situation" it's just more talking points, more aggressive suicide-prevention, anti-choice rhetoric and measures. They would rather attack the symptoms (suicide) rather than the causes (societal changes and real social issues).

I have really tried to have conversations with a few of my friends and my therapist about this topic. Every time, my friends constantly guilt trip me and my therapist tries to swerve away from the topic. I have yet to find anyone irl who genuinely understands. All I can do is hope until I ctb

Sadly, that is all too oftenly true, many people IRL would just simply not wish to be drained by the subject (even if it is an important one). Then as far as mental health professionals, yes, they oftenly have two interests, one of which is keeping their job as well as avoiding legal ramifications (as they are required by law to report any potential harm, threat, danger to self or others) and the other one is pushing the narrative of 'life is good' and 'suicide/death is always bad'. The first one mainly, leading to the second interest.