This is a good post highlighting the catch-22 of societal stigma against CTB

[TAW122]

While this month (September) is known as National Suicide Prevention Month, I found a post exposing the hypocrisy and irony of society as a whole when it comes to the topic of CTB.

The user, u/134lemmejustsay posted:

Coronavirus, loss, social decay, lack of forgiveness, money, lack of community. We are experiencing a great awakening in people, realizing the true and depressing nature of the world.
I Feel that one of the biggest things holding back a lot of people from talking about it is the fact that every single time I, or a friend opens up about suicide, the immediate response is "oh dear. here's a phone number. you better become happy or else we're going to lock you up"
Any discussion about the matter of suicide, the meaning of life, instantly becomes poisoned by an urgent rat race to dope up the person who dares to just sit back and ask a few questions.
I'm tired of it, and frankly I feel that it does more harm than good. If you really want people to "open up" and "end stigma" why are we treating suicidal people like a loaded gun every single time? without any regards to the specific nuances of their situation. That's why we have people here who post here, the same things over and over again. the same cliches
"I wish i could give my life to someone else"
"People only care when you kill yourself"
I feel we'd have genuine discussions if we stopped acting so horrible about this. People say they want to talk about it, but they really don't. They want to throw suicidal people into a small box and say "oh deal with it". At least be honest if you want to do that. and stop bullying us into feeling happy.
I know how difficult it is:
What do you do? Do you let everyone talk about suicide and risk some people coming to a logical conclusion that it is valid, defeating the purpose of any prevention, or do you suppress it, and no REAL conversation ever happens? I feel like I'm living in some kind of agnostic theocracy that shrieks whenever someone dares to bring up any heresys to the anti-suicde dogma

I feel like this is rather relevant as it shows "exactly" what is wrong with society in terms of addressing the stigma of suicide. This guy sums it up rather well. After reading this, I feel more justified and less shameful of my war against pro-lifers, the majority of people in society. Until society decides to have an "genuine" open conversation (without censorship or an ulterior motive, agenda), then the stigma will always remain and nothing much changes year after year. I do wish and hope for more people to wake up and be similar to what this guy does, pointing out the problem with how society treats suicidal people and refuse to have honest, genuine conversations, then also for more people to be open-minded and willing to accept that "maybe life isn't always good and sometimes, suicide can be an answer."

Also, some of the comments are spot on and in agreeance with the person who posted the thread.

u/RonPaulalamode says:

Definitely the answer is talking about it and refusing to be placed in the subhuman category. We need to fix society generally, and talking about it is the only way. Growing through the pain and fighting off attacks on your personal sovereignty seems super important. its the fact that suicide is so often considered that represents something horrible about society generally so if we stay quiet or even worse actually do it we reinforce the integrity of the current system. If we dont simply play nice than we expose the problem. Thats how i look at it.

u/MysticalLunaMelody says:

The truth is no one really cares.
They just want to shut you up by using dangerous pills.

u/Modaphilio says:

This is the most profound truth about suicide in modern world. Brain damaging pills no better than placebo, psychiatry a pseudoscience bullshit with laughable reproducibility rate of its studies and people who pretend they want to help you but they really dont give a shit about you.
The "help" is turning you into drug induced emotionless zombie, another brick in the wall of our industrial society.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Well, I'd be honest - I don't have much faith in a "society" or "system" that is an enemy and that antagonizes you. I used to believe in similar things, but over the course of my life I came to a conclusion that reality is much simpler and comes down to a short sentence brought up in one of these posts:
"The truth is no one really cares. "
And I don't think that any amount of openness and discussions will change it. A world where people genuinely care about strangers they can't really relate to is a utopia. It's not "bad society" or "flawed system", it's just human nature.
Most people have an easier time relating to loved ones and friends left grieving, than to someone who is about to take their own life, so we keep hearing how we should think about our families before we think about CTB, even when one's family is a bunch of abusive bastards. Most people are uncomfortable with death in general, so they want you to go "fix yourself" so you stop bringing up dark sh*t that makes them uncomfortable - and that's the core principle of suicide prevention.

Plus, lately in western society there is a very strong trend of people being harshly judged for the low amount of "brownie points" they received by taking a stance about the social issue of the week. There is a peer pressure to pretend you care even if you don't, and from what I'm seeing most people really don't (unless the social issue of the week concerns a category of people they belong to, of course), they are just trying to look like they care because that's what cool with the kids these days. So if anything is wrong with the "bad society" these days, then it's a staggering amount of hypocrisy.

 

[TAW122]

Well, I'd be honest - I don't have much faith in a "society" or "system" that is an enemy and that antagonizes you. I used to believe in similar things, but over the course of my life I came to a conclusion that reality is much simpler and comes down to a short sentence brought up in one of these posts:
"The truth is no one really cares. "
And I don't think that any amount of openness and discussions will change it. A world where people genuinely care about strangers they can't really relate to is a utopia. It's not "bad society" or "flawed system", it's just human nature.
Most people have an easier time relating to loved ones and friends left grieving, than to someone who is about to take their own life, so we keep hearing how we should think about our families before we think about CTB, even when one's family is a bunch of abusive bastards. Most people are uncomfortable with death in general, so they want you to go "fix yourself" so you stop bringing up dark sh*t that makes them uncomfortable - and that's the core principle of suicide prevention.

Plus, lately in western society there is a very strong trend of people being harshly judged for the low amount of "brownie points" they received by taking a stance about the social issue of the week. There is a peer pressure to pretend you care even if you don't, and from what I'm seeing most people really don't (unless the social issue of the week concerns a category of people they belong to, of course), they are just trying to look like they care because that's what cool with the kids these days. So if anything is wrong with the "bad society" these days, then it's a staggering amount of hypocrisy.

Excellent post and I too don't have much faith in society. As for your statement, yes, that is the truth that no one is saying in the open (probably due to the fear of being singled out and labelled as an outcast in society). With respect to human nature, yes what you said is definitely on point.

On the topic of western society, yes I do feel like that is very likely the case with a lot of these things, they are very much bound by peer pressure and with regards to "bad society" I suppose we could focus on exposing the hypocrisy and maybe some change could occur from that angle?

 

[GrumpyFrog]

On the topic of western society, yes I do feel like that is very likely the case with a lot of these things, they are very much bound by peer pressure and with regards to "bad society" I suppose we could focus on exposing the hypocrisy and maybe some change could occur from that angle?

Oh, I see it now! I suppose from this angle, encouraging an honest discussion can be very helpful. As this forum shows, there are people that can relate and be genuinely supportive. I might say a controversial thing, but even some of the pro-lifers can genuinely sympathize and be helpful. But they are drowned out by a sea of people repeating the empty chant "don't do it, it gets better, here's a hotline number", and as long as we keep applauding guys like Logic with their "who can relate, woo!" approach and shunning everyone who says something remotely negative, it isn't going to change. I think the whole world would benefit if we were more accepting of people saying what they really think, as long as it isn't a personal attack or a call to hurt other people.

Personally, I would feel better if the person told me "I'm sorry, I can't help, this conversation makes me very uncomfortable, let's not talk about it", instead of giving me a "canned comforting response" where they say "I'm here for you if you want to talk", but it is obvious that they are extremely uncomfortable, really wish I didn't start talking to them in the first place and hope I'll stop ASAP and never do it again. I wonder if others would feel this way too...