Discussion There’s enough on this planet for everyone’s needs but not everyone’s greed.

[Lost Magic]

'There's enough on this planet for everyone's needs but not everyone's greed.'

Mahatma Gandhi

What are your thoughts on this greedy planet? The few have so much and the many have so few. Human scum are literally gobbling up land and resources to enrich themselves and their own close circle of bandits. It's just not right, is it?

 

[GentleJerk]

Yep 100%.

The mismanagement and plundering of our planet's precious resources for profits, as well as the corrupt and outdated global monetary and financial system that perpetuates waste, war, and scarcity, will lead us all to ruin if we let it continue.

No elected political party can lead us out of this, as the real problems we face are technical, not political. We currently have the technology and the scientific capability to create a paradise on earth, abundance for all. We simply need to do away with the selfish goals of personal wealth and materialism, profits and marketplace growth, and apply our tech for the purpose of elevating the standard of living for all the worlds people and preserving the environment.

Adopt a new global economic model that keeps up with the times and focuses on the intelligent preservation, production, and use of the earths resources. A resource based economy. Invest in renewable and lasting energy. Design and build things, including cities, to the highest level of dynamic equilibrium, minimizing waste and maximizing eficiency- rather than design things to break down right on time so more shit can be made and sold to bolster the bottom line.

Otherwise we're fast headed for WASTELAND, with no return tickets.

 

[Someone123]

'There's enough on this planet for everyone's needs but not everyone's greed.'

Mahatma Gandhi

What are your thoughts on this greedy planet? The few have so much and the many have so few. Human scum are literally gobbling up land and resources to enrich themselves and their own close circle of bandits. It's just not right, is it?

There is something very sick about Jeff Bezos spending $450 million on a yacht when he knows that this money could save many thousands of lives, plus he gets this money by running his warehouse workers into the ground, and he always wants to use them up and throw them out in under three years, he won't even let them make a career of it. This is one of many, many examples like this.

 

[waitingforrest]

Humans will always want more sadly. We will tear up the world in order to find happiness, but in the end, it doesn't matter how much you have, we will all die. But the imprint we leave on the environment stays.

I cannot feel anything but dislike for big companies and the rich. Companies constantly start up charities to get money from their consumers when even a sliver of what they make in a year could save so many people. It's like a big pr stunt.

Oh, and they are greedy that they take a cut of the donations for themselves.

Like, f**k you Bezos, asking for donations when you are figuratively wiping your ass with cash. Screw Amazon Smiles.

Oh, and don't even mention eco friendly corporations. Blaming the consumer for polluting the Earth while they dump billions of waste into the oceans because they won't use degradable materials. Marking prices up sustainable/organic products that the average person can't afford to live more sustainable.

All of their excess money could probably fix most of the problems we face. But no, they have to buy another f&*king car and fly to the moon.

(Edgy right?)

 

[Darkover]

there's not enough resource on the planet foreveyone to live a western lifestyle, High standards of living for all the world's inhabitants would require up to six times as many resources as the planet can sustainably provide humans move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed, and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area.

rising sea levels, depleting fish population,soil erosion,global warming ,deforestation running out of sand,running out of helium,coral reef destruction,increase of mental illness, cancer rates increasing, autism increasing, running out of fresh drinking water, trend is towards an older population more older people then young,declining of births rates, decline of sperm count in men,the world's rare earth metals are running out,Increasing total debt, increasing unemployment, collapse of ecosystems and loss of biodiversity,chemical pollution of the Earth system, including the atmosphere and oceans, depletion of resources 3 Trillion Trees on Earth, 15 Billion Cut Down Per Year we have 200 years worth of trees left, decline of bees, nonrenewable resources: oil, natural gas, coal,helium, and nuclear energy, chemicals are we running out of Gallium, tellurium and selenium are past their production peaks,

i've got a feeling this human civilization is due to collapse within the next 100 years if we can't find more resources and bring them back to earth everyone will have to leave earth at some point or go back to living in the forest, i can see this all ending in disaster.

 

[PaperGodzilla]

yeah capitalism sucks, the ultimate goal of all enterprise under capitalism is to accumulate profit and generate wealth (which is created by their exploited workers btw)

 

[Red Scare]

there's not enough resource on the planet foreveyone to live a western lifestyle

Bullshit. There are enough resources on the earth that everyone could enjoy a high quality of life, the problem is forced scarcity, and mismanagement of resources. There are even more resources in the surrounding solar system, we cannot let the Bezos' and Musks of the world claim those for themselves. But I doubt anyone will try to stop them.

People are so complacent. What most of you are suggesting in this thread is socialism. I have given up on the idea that socialism will ever happen in the USA/Europe. People are too complacent, and stupid. They have bought into the propaganda wholesale that socialism is a dirty word. But nationalizing the utilities, and the industries in this country, democratizing the means of production, and kicking out the damn oligarchs running everything is exactly what needs to happen to stop this bullshit. It will not happen without a mass revolt of workers, and no one is going to do that or even thinking about it.

All of the so called self proclaimed socialist orgs in this country are useless, ineffective, filled with a bunch of dumb college kids who are more concerned about pronouns and intersectionality than they are with achieving any real goals to further the agenda of socialism. They would be useless in a revolution. They can't even hold a meeting without getting past the need to discus microagressons, in order to discus actual socialist goals and what needs to happen.

fml

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

Why do communists always blame capitalism for encouraging people to work productively?

No incentives and not working means no production. Y'all can't possibly think you'd still have food/services/infrastructure when everyone stops working but still expect to get fed.

I've seen countless people who are healthy, able to work but they choose not to. Or work a 9-5 hourly paid job but stand around doing nothing.

As a matter of fact in actual communist countries people are more hardworking than capitalist ones and capitalist countries are those that demand communism.

Communism is also demanded in communist countries, but that's just the government maintaining control over the people but they don't give a fuck about them.

Anyone who thinks communism is good is too far fetched.

 

[Red Scare]

Why do communists always blame capitalism for encouraging people to work productively?

No incentives and not working means no production. Y'all can't possibly think you'd still have food/services/infrastructure when everyone stops working but still expect to get fed.

I've seen countless people who are healthy, able to work but they choose not to. Or work a 9-5 hourly paid job but stand around doing nothing.

Who the fuck said they were going to stop working, or wouldn't want to work? Get the fuck out of here with your straw man bullshit

As a matter of fact in actual communist countries people are more hardworking than capitalist ones and capitalist countries are those that demand communism.

No shit. He who doesn't work, doesn't eat.

But when college is free, healthcare is guaranteed, and so is housing, and a job, with food accessible to all, there really shouldn't be a lot of people out of work. Only the lumpenproles who are a drag on society, and there are labor camps for that. People with real disabilities and mental illnesses excluded. There should be treatment and help, and even housing and food guaranteed to those people.

Communism is also demanded in communist countries, but that's just the government maintaining control over the people but they don't give a fuck about them.

Yeah, no shit. China is not communist, NK is not communist. They have moved away from Marxism, they are reivionists. China has billionaires for crying out loud, and private owned entities.

Anyone who thinks communism is good is too far fetched.

Hmmm, no homelessness, no joblessness, healthcare and college and housing and a job available to anyone who wants it. Free utilities like power and plumbing and internet available to all. Nationalizing industry so that Jeff fucking Bezos can't continue to profit, and those profits go back into the communal good. Sounds good to me.

 

[Darkover]

Bullshit. There are enough resources on the earth that everyone could enjoy a high quality of life, the problem is forced scarcity, and mismanagement of resources.

you heard of something called Overshoot Day,

It's called "Overshoot Day", the moment each year when we humans have used up more natural resources that the Earth can renew in 12 months.
And this year that day came on Saturday, August 22nd.
Put another way, it would take 1.6 Earths this year to meet the needs of the world's population in a sustainable way.

The calculations were made by American NGO Global Footprint Network -- since 2003 it's been raising the alarm on the ever faster consumption of an expanding human population on a limited planet.

Humans are using 73% more natural resources than the Earth produces in a year - with wealthy nations living out of their means fueling the problem.

 

[Red Scare]

with wealthy nations living out of their means fueling the problem.

Well, there you go.

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

Who the fuck said they were going to stop working, or wouldn't want to work? Get the fuck out of here with your straw man bullshit

No shit. He who doesn't work, doesn't eat.

But when college is free, healthcare is guaranteed, and so is housing, and a job, with food accessible to all, there really shouldn't be a lot of people out of work. Only the lumpenproles who are a drag on society, and there are labor camps for that. People with real disabilities and mental illnesses excluded. There should be treatment and help, and even housing and food guaranteed to those people.

Yeah, no shit. China is not communist, NK is not communist. They have moved away from Marxism, they are reivionists. China has billionaires for crying out loud, and private owned entities.

Hmmm, no homelessness, no joblessness, healthcare and college and housing and a job available to anyone who wants it. Free utilities like power and plumbing and internet available to all. Nationalizing industry so that Jeff fucking Bezos can't continue to profit, and those profits go back into the communal good. Sounds good to me.

Communists are the worst nightmare of productive societies.
The fact you mentioned labour camp also says a lot about communists view on human rights.
It's ironic us capitalists care more about leeches on society than those from communist Fruitopia who were supposed to support equality and universal distribution. What a contradiction. I won't be surprised once you are in power, you'd take away all the food from peasant and send them to the gulag.

Oh and Chinese billionaires controlled by chinese government.
Mao and Xi follows communism closely.
Russia and China debates who is the real communism, but unfortunately they are both torment for their people and country reputation.

Explain why Soviet Russia and China had gone rogue since they followed communism?
Because communism is rubbish and doesn't work, always a totalitarian/authoritarian power trip, that's why.

 

[Lost Magic]

Communists are the worst nightmare of productive societies.
The fact you mentioned labour camp also says a lot about communists view on human rights.
It's ironic us capitalists care more about leeches on society than those for communist Fruitopia who were supposed to support equality and universal distribution. What a paradox. I won't be surprised I once you are in power, you'd take away all the food from peasant and send them to the gulag.

Oh and Chinese billionaires controlled by chinese government.
Mao and Xi follows communism closely.
Russia and China debates who is the real communism, but unfortunately they are both torment for their people and country reputation.

Explain why Soviet Russia and China had gone rogue since they followed communism?
Because communism is rubbish and doesn't work, always a totalitarian/authoritarian power trip, that's why.

Dude, just look up and study Neo Liberalism. It isn't even capitalism that is at complete fault. It's the way it has been designed to empower the few and enslave the many. It's the Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand brand of economics that has completely fucked up the way people do business. Amazon is a prime example of it, like some good folks in the thread have already mentioned. This is not a sustainable system, especially with the surge of technology and globalisation dominating the globe at the moment. That's why some forward thinking governments, are or are thinking about implementing some kind of basic income scheme. Because they know that this brand of Capitalism is no longer serving the people, and it never really did serve enough in the first place. Time for wealth redistribution. I am sure the rich can afford to pay back what they plundered in the first place. I'm sorry but Socialism for the rich is not acceptable and I am tired of small potatoes bigging up these greedy conglomerates.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

That's true but it means that there's nothing to stop all the poor people from becoming just as greedy once they get what they need. "Give an inch and they'll take a mile" is the saying. Humans are always gonna be wired to want more than others and no amount of wealth distribution can change that. Giving certain people money is just going to make them even more greedy and free to do horrible things they couldn't have done before. I'm a good example. You think Jeff Bezos is bad, better to waste that money than to just spend it directly on evil things like I would. It does suck that there are greedy people but I don't think the solution is to give the potential to create more just to take away from the current greedy people.

 

[Lost Magic]

That's true but it means that there's nothing to stop all the poor people from becoming just as greedy once they get what they need. "Give an inch and they'll take a mile" is the saying. Humans are always gonna be wired to want more than others and no amount of wealth distribution can change that. Giving certain people money is just going to make them even more greedy and free to do horrible things they couldn't have done before. I'm a good example. You think Jeff Bezos is bad, better to waste that money than to just spend it directly on evil things like I would. It does suck that there are greedy people but I don't think the solution is to give the potential to create more just to take away from the current greedy people.

I know what you are trying to say, but I am not talking about making everyone like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. I am saying, that everybody deserves to live in dignity with the basics to afford what they need to live a comfortable life. A lot of folks are working for long hours with very little to show for it. These companies are allowed to belittle their workers and treat them nothing more than wage slaves. It's just not acceptable and it shows that the system needs to be 'massively' reformed. If not, then it will only get much worse.

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

Dude, just look up and study Neo Liberalism. It isn't even capitalism that is at complete fault. It's the way it has been designed to empower the few and enslave the many. It's the Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand brand of economics that has completely fucked up the way people do business. Amazon is a prime example of it, like some good folks in the thread have already mentioned. This is not a sustainable system, especially with the surge of technology and globalisation dominating the globe at the moment. That's why some forward thinking governments, are or are thinking about implementing some kind of basic income scheme. Because they know that this brand of Capitalism is no longer serving the people, and it never really did serve enough in the first place. Time for wealth redistribution. I am sure the rich can afford to pay back what they plundered in the first place. I'm sorry but Socialism for the rich is not acceptable and I am tired of small potatoes bigging up these greedy conglomerates.

They should really be replacing the human labour with more robots
and donate some money to environmental/humanitarian/animal charities,
as to offsets their "footprints" lil bit.

 

[Lost Magic]

They should really be replacing the human labour with more robots
and donate some money to environmental/humanitarian/animal charities,
as to offsets their "footprints" lil bit.

lol, I can't even take you seriously with that line: They should really replacing the human labour with more robots. Right click, ignore.

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

I know what you are trying to say, but I am not talking about making everyone like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. I am saying, that everybody deserves to live in dignity with the basics to afford what they need to live a comfortable life. A lot of folks are working for long hours with very little to show for it. These companies are allowed to belittle their workers and treat them nothing more than wage slaves. It's just not acceptable and it shows that the system needs to be 'massively' reformed. If not, then it will only get much worse.

The global population is greatly disproportionate to the resources available.
You bet the quality of life would gradually increase if some countries eventually keep their population under control.

Supply and demand, no need to replace human labour right away.
What would people be doing instead anyway?
Most people are middle class wage slaves especially when they are young.

lol, I can't even take you seriously with that line: They should really replacing the human labour with more robots. Right click, ignore.

The feeling is mutual then.

Don't see what triggers you when I mentioned robots replacing humans.
It's a trend that will continue, and gradually increase.

Keep up with the world you are in, perhaps.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I know what you are trying to say, but I am not talking about making everyone like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. I am saying, that everybody deserves to live in dignity with the basics to afford what they need to live a comfortable life. A lot of folks are working for long hours with very little to show for it. These companies are allowed to belittle their workers and treat them nothing more than wage slaves. It's just not acceptable and it shows that the system needs to be 'massively' reformed. If not, then it will only get much worse.

And that does suck but I'm also saying that even if everyone were to get what we consider now as an affordable wage, the innate human greed we all have would ensure that many of them would still not consider it to be enough and want more. I'm not saying that makes it okay to treat workers like crap or that it justifies certain people hoarding huge amounts of wealth like their name is Smaug. I just think that it means we're kind of screwed either way. Sure a lot of people might feel temporary relief from finally being able to afford basic necessities but then what? Most humans would never be content with just that.

I'm not sure what the real solution is though but it has to be more complicated than just taking from the rich and giving to the poor because as nice as that sounds you're just turning the poor into more rich people who are going to still create other victims along the way.

 

[Lost Magic]

And that does suck but I'm also saying that even if everyone were to get what we consider now as an affordable wage, the innate human greed we all have would ensure that many of them would still not consider it to be enough and want more. I'm not saying that makes it okay to treat workers like crap or that it justifies certain people hoarding huge amounts of wealth like their name is Smaug. I just think that it means we're kind of screwed either way. Sure a lot of people might feel temporary relief from finally being able to afford basic necessities but then what? Most humans would never be content with just that.

I'm not sure what the real solution is though but it has to be more complicated than just taking from the rich and giving to the poor because as nice as that sounds you're just turning the poor into more rich people who are going to still create other victims along the way.

Yeah, the greed will probably continue until humans destroy the planet. That may be the case, but I stick with my argument. I'll just be glad to exit before it gets any worse. Goodnight and good riddance to it all. The Aliens are probably saying, let them have their shit show lol

 

[Red Scare]

Communists are the worst nightmare of productive societies.

Bullshit, the USSR had a space program that could rival NASA at the time. The CIA even published a report saying soviets ate better than Americans at the time: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf

The fact you mentioned labour camp also says a lot about communists view on human rights.

I guess you never heard of privatized prison labor in the USA, basically a form of modern slavery.

It's ironic us capitalists care more about leeches on society

The fact you call another human being a leech on society says a lot about capitalists view on human rights.

I won't be surprised once you are in power, you'd take away all the food from peasant and send them to the gulag.

What peasants, you mean the poor? The USSR collectivized farming, and according to the link I provided above, they ate better than Americans. What part of a jobs guarantee, free college tuition, and public housing didn't you understand?

Gulags were part of the penal system. The standard sentence was a period of four years, doing labor to build things like highways, making these people productive. Not just anyone got sent to a gulag. And they had days off, and their families would come to visit them. Most people returned home after serving their sentence. These weren't concentration camps.

Considering the USA has the largest prison population of any developed nation, and prison labor is prevalent I would say this is casting stones from a glass house.

Oh and Chinese billionaires controlled by chinese government.
Mao and Xi follows communism closely.

That doesn't stop all these billionaires from traveling where they want, buying real estate and making other investments in the USA, Australia, etc.

And no, they don't closely follow communism. They have not abolished private property and nationalized the industry there. They are very far from being a communist state. I guess we should consider them democratic, because it's in their name? You see how silly this sounds.

Russia and China debates who is the real communism, but unfortunately they are both torment for their people and country reputation.

Russia had not been a socialist state since 1991. As soon as the USSR fell, private parties like Putin began buying up all the once nationalized businesses and factories, etc. and privatizing their economy. Russia is fucked right now because if capitalism.

Explain why Soviet Russia and China had gone rogue since they followed communism?

I have no idea what this means. China is simply not a communist or socialist state. They have not nationalized every industry, abolished private property, etc.

Because communism is rubbish and doesn't work, always a totalitarian/authoritarian power trip, that's why.

The USSR had zero homelessness, and zero unemployment. There was no reason NOT to work, or go to college, because it was free (and you were guaranteed a job in the fielf you studied for). Housing was free, healthcare was free. Jobs were guaranteed, whether you were a physicist or a factory worker, or a farmer.

Only those who truly refused to work, or go to school, the real drags on society, criminals, etc. were sent to labor camps.

 

[Red Scare]

Humans are always gonna be wired to want more than others

This is such an outdated way of thinking. We used to live in caves, you could just club a woman and drag her back to your cave and rape her and that became your wife. Now, we rightfully lock up rapists. People have changed so much throughout history. To say that there is any definitive human nature, or that people can't change this or that, well, it's just not an accurate representation of human history.

I agree, if you can't be trusted not to spend that money on dumb shit, then it's better for the government to spend it for you, like on a universal healthcare system.

They should really be replacing the human labour with more robots

Says the guy complaining about how people won't want to work in a socialist world.

The global population is greatly disproportionate to the resources available.

No, forced scarcity is a lie, and in truth the earth could support many more humans. And we could expand into giant orbital space stations that could house millions.

What @paulstrong is describing is just capitalism. Neoliberalism, and workers being increasingly marginalized, working more, and paid less, this is just capitalism. And we are approaching end stage capitalism. This was predicted by Marx, and historical materialism has proven to be as accurate as scientific materialism. We live in a material universe. Unfortunately, Marc predicted socialism would be a natural development. History has shown it only comes with revolution, by people willing to fight for it.

The USA is fucked. They will never revolt, they will never demand socialism, even when things get as bad as Marx predicts. He thought when capitalism made private ownership impossible for poor people, meaning you will not be able to afford a house, a car, food, things of your own, you w I'll just rent them, and pay extortionist prices, people would revolt. I don't see that happening in the USA. People can not afford homes already, and instead of embracing socialism, they think it is a dirty word.

 

[Smart No More]

I saw an article about Jay Z winning a bid on a watch not so long back. It cost millions and I just thought it was so disgusting. Particularly coming from someone who has seen some of the darker and impoverished side of humanity. The watch serves so little purpose and didn't even look all that nice. It'll be worn on e or twice and then stored. Worth it? I think not. Tasteful? Far from it.

It'd be great to see something like Jaque Fresco what envisioned and bless him for the work he put into it. I'm so onboard but there's a flaw. It's too ideal and relies on complete common human decency which, even under ideal circumstances is not going to occur. There will always be soneone that takes more than they deserve and knowingly so. Also things like black market items (drugs etc) would create a side line and subsequent relative currency which wouldn't fit into the equal share for everyone model. I don't really know how to broach that. I do love that there would be financial/resourceful backing for worthy research such as medicine because right now the only incentive for medical resesrch is financial. Obviously it needs some efficacy on a medical front but also needs to be beneficial in a way that provides either repeat purchase or a huge one off return. If its only going to benefit a small portion of patients and be cheap AF then it won't get resesrched as the research costs more than the return. This clearly draws the line that wellness is not the motivating factor in medical research. How do we as humans not find this unacceptable. I would argue it's a case of mixed ignorance/unawarness and making do with the best of a bad situation but it can only take us so far. Improvement is a necessity. We can't go on living with our respective cures held to ransom.

No matter what regime we're under or identify and agree with there is no good reason for people to still be living in poverty. Particularly the kind of poverty seen in third world countries where they unable to reliably source things like water and medicines. A proportionate worldwide tax system might be reasonable. For example, these people with multiple billions could easily afford a couple of million as a one off tax to better the lives of so many people on the planet. Providing them initial necessities like homes and facilities for them to get off the ground to start providing for themselves would barely touch the combined pockets/riches of the people with the largest wealth on earth. Idealist? Maybe but not wrong either. It could be done. Whether the people on either side of the coin would welcome it is another thing. Then who would inforce it. There's not a worldwide stage that facilitates or welcomes this. To lost in greed and power.

The fact that the financial secretary of the UK is richer than the queen and only provides pennies of relief for citizens in times like this is utterly ludicrous to me. This is a drop in the ocean compared to similar accounts of grey area corruption that can be found in high numbers in all governments around the world. Where there's an opportunity for coruption the will be corruption because ultimately mankind fucking sucks. The best examples of humanity are often found in the lower ends of the wealth spectrum which maybe indicates a certain beneficial perspective is provided by being in that position. Providing everyone with everything they need may cause a somewhat negative knock on effect/feedback loop but I guess education might be able address that. Even that would rely on peoples ability to express empathy for the hypothetical and science and fact have proved that trate to be lacking and only natively expressed in a portion of humans. It needs to be in 100 percent else it can't work. I'd really love to bw wrong!

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

This is such an outdated way of thinking. We used to live in caves, you could just club a woman and drag her back to your cave and rape her and that became your wife. Now, we rightfully lock up rapists. People have changed so much throughout history. To say that there is any definitive human nature, or that people can't change this or that, well, it's just not an accurate representation of human history.

Maybe for those things we can move on but that doesn't mean every idea can just be overturned in the near future. Even today people still resist a lot of the modern practices that have been embraced like social media and AI or whatever. Just because some things have been moved past doesn't mean everyone will and even if they will, it still took hundreds if not thousands of years to get people to change. Also you contradict yourself later with:

The USA is fucked. They will never revolt, they will never demand socialism, even when things get as bad as Marx predicts. He thought when capitalism made private ownership impossible for poor people, meaning you will not be able to afford a house, a car, food, things of your own, you w I'll just rent them, and pay extortionist prices, people would revolt. I don't see that happening in the USA. People can not afford homes already, and instead of embracing socialism, they think it is a dirty word.

This is what I'm saying too and it's why the only chance of setting up communism or something like it will have to be through force.

I agree, if you can't be trusted not to spend that money on dumb shit, then it's better for the government to spend it for you, like on a universal healthcare system.

The government isn't immune to spending on dumb shit either unfortunately but it's a lot worse when they do. Universal health care would be neat though.

 

[Red Scare]

Maybe for those things we can move on but that doesn't mean every idea can just be overturned in the near future. Even today people still resist a lot of the modern practices that have been embraced like social media and AI or whatever. Just because some things have been moved past doesn't mean everyone will and even if they will, it still took hundreds if not thousands of years to get people to change. Also you contradict yourself later with:


This is what I'm saying too and it's why the only chance of setting up communism or something like it will have to be through force.

The government isn't immune to spending on dumb shit either unfortunately but it's a lot worse when they do. Universal health care would be neat though.

I don't think there is any contradiction, I just think we're close enough to the brink that the necessary changes could be made in time. I still believe in people's ability to change... given the time. And regarding government expenditures and incompetency, this is mostly due tot he fact that the government doesn't do much, except for administrative stuff. We don't produce anything. We contract with outside companies and corporations to do anything. This is very inefficient and costs us trillions of dollars more than if we just did stuff ourself, like bad our own tanks and body armor instead of buying it from companies we contract with.

I agree it's probably got to be by force, it's just too bad that force doesn't exist in he USA. There is no left wing. It would take a lot of workers being driven to the edge, over the edge in fact, and somehow wanting to embrace socialism as the answer. Russia, Cuba, they all had to undergo revolutionary periods. Ousting the politicians who make it impossible as well as putting down resistance from right wing reactionaries who would impede progress. It could happen democratically, but there's almost no chance of that happening. That would somehow take a socialist running for all the positions at the same time, and then somehow wining enough elections. I'm not sure if a revolution would be more expedient, we could leave most the structure of the current government in place, just need to amend or rewrite the constitution, and place socialists into the senate, house, and presidency.

Right wingers have been trying to get enough support to hold a constitutional convention of their own. This could spell disaster for the USA, as if it couldn't get any more dystopian, but I am afraid people are too complacent to stop it. There is absolutely nothing to counter them, which is why I have lost any hope of there being any type of socialist revolution. The fbi and cia did a good enough job of absolutely erradicating any sort of left wing movement here in the USA. The so called self avowed leftists are just a bunch of neoliberal assholes who are more concerned with pronouns and microagressions than they are with studying Marx.

So what I write above may just as well be fantasy, but it is an idea of what Would need to happen in order for the USA to become the USSRA


@CommunistAndProud

 

[Depressed Cat]

Communism is the filthiest economic ideology of all! It is nothing but barbaric totalitarian tyranny, and an utterly unworkable one at that. No wonder that the satanic commie empire, the USSR, was deservedly flushed down the S-bend and into the sewer of history. It could have been flushed into the sewer of history much, much earlier, if the free, capitalist USA had not helped the evil USSR to develop its industrial base.

Commie sympathisers will never admit this, but it was the free, capitalist USA that not only helped the commie USSR immensely in WW II, but also helped in building up the USSR's own industrial base well before WW II.

Commies who know nothing about history need to read this thread to enlighten themselves about Soviet industry

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[Red Scare]

Communism is the filthiest economic ideology of all! It is nothing but barbaric totalitarian tyranny, and an utterly unworkable one at that. No wonder that the satanic commie empire, the USSR, was deservedly flushed down the S-bend and into the sewer of history. It could have been flushed into the sewer of history much, much earlier, if the free, capitalist USA had not helped the evil USSR to develop its industrial base.

Commie sympathisers will never admit this, but it was the free, capitalist USA that not only helped the commie USSR immensely in WW II, but also helped in building up the USSR's own industrial base well before WW II.

Commies who know nothing about history need to read this thread to enlighten themselves about Soviet industry

So unworkable, they had no homelessness, or unemployment. Free universal healthcare, and tuition free schools. They built their own cars, computers, etc. they had a space program that could rival NASA.

You know, it is impossible to take you seriously with all that childish language and hyperbole. And nice bit of historical revisionism there, but it was the ussr that ultimately defeated the nazis. The allies helped. No historian is disputing that, and if you are, then you'll need to provide a source.

Here, let me get you some pictures because that is about the level of intellectual discourse you are capable of:

That's some system you advocate for. One that leaves people to die in the street because they cannot afford a home, or medical care. You're a real evil SOB, you know that?

 

[Depressed Cat]

You're a real evil SOB, you know that?

So says the filthy commie pig!

Nobody with an IQ greater than that of a pig buys your filthy commie propaganda, comrade.

Hahahahahahaha!

WW II was won by Great Britain and America, not by the filthy commie USSR. Great Britain (including her colonies) was the only power fighting against the Axis horde from the beginning till the end of WW II.

You know what your filthy USSR did? The Soviet commie savages teamed up with the Nazi scum to invade, occupy, divide & destroy free, democratic Poland among themselves. Not to mention the fact that commie savages had a Neutrality Pact with Imperial Japan till almost the end of WW II.

Commie scum conveniently forget the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact or Stalin-Hitler Pact or commie-Nazi Pact whenever the topic of WW II comes up. The commie barbarians always want to hide the fact that the satanic USSR was fighting on the side of Hitler till Operation Barbarossa.

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The evil empire (USSR) that made a Pact with Hitler to invade and destroy the free Polish nation together can never, ever be called the victor of WW II, even if the Soviet barbarians happened to occupy Berlin.

The honour of winning WW II duly goes to Great Britain (including her colonies) who fought against the Axis powers right from the beginning till the end of WW II. Winston Churchill was the primary hero of WW II.

Hitler would have taken over the commie USSR completely had it not been for timely American help for the commie barbarians in the form of lend-lease!

All the indirect American help in the form of industrialisation of the commie USSR didn't help the commie scum fight Hitler's forces. It was only direct help from the Americans in the form of lend-lease that helped the Soviet commies gain the upper hand against Hitler.




The Americans committed a grave mistake in helping the Soviet commie barbarians with their lend-lease and by supplying everything the Soviet commie scum needed to fight Nazi Germany.

Lend-lease should have only been used to help Great Britain (including her colonies) and other friendly Allies fight the Axis powers. It should never have been used to help the commie savages of the USSR. America should have let Hitler take over the satanic Soviet empire and then moved in to defeat Hitler. That would have advanced the liberation of hundreds of millions of people under the yoke of the evil empire (USSR). It's very unfortunate that humankind had to wait till the fall of the Berlin Wall and the USSR's collapse for the filthy commie empire to end.

The fall of the satanic Soviet empire and the liberation of several nations & hundreds of millions of people from commie oppression was the best thing to have happened to humankind in the second half of the last century!

 

[Red Scare]

You are impossible to take seriously. You're like a meme.

 

[Depressed Cat]

So says the bloody Red commie propagandist.

Try harder next time, deluded commie.